Have we overlook the human side of sports?

H

hooverspfan

New member
Have we completely overlook the human side of sports at the cost of getting the win? Are we to trusting of those who coach our kids? Who evaluating the coaches and holding them accountable? Are our kid’s just mere zombies that show up or do the coaches really care about our kids beyond the game? The schools make sure the parents are well inform about the OHSAA rule’s, but who is making sure the coaches are following the same rules? When I hear the following statements “Trust us we know what we are doing” or “Trust us with you kids.” that set off an alarm that we as parents should pay attention to. Our kids spend a lot time with coaches who can have a profound effect on our kids, by what they say or how the treat them. To often parents are scared to stand up for what is right and that also applies to the school administration. Why you would not stand up for your child. Some coaches do their same old song dance about how they can not play everyone on the bench. Then why have the extra players if they don’t meaning anything to the program? At least play your upper classmen because they are the ones who stuck it out. Maybe they don’t start but they could play a few minutes each game. Maybe we need to revaluate what we are doing and not get so hung up on winning. Winning is fun, but is it worth the cost? I know that some will disagree and that fine, but there are some real issues that need to be address.
 
 
Are the coaches really that out of control? Actually they are under a microscope with players, parents, some administrators and general public standing ready to give opinions. As far as playing the bench, most coaches try to get kids in the game but not always for equal time. The most successful programs do a great job with the youth and have strong competition for playing time with good communications and motivation. Even the best coaches can not keep all the players and parents happy. You may start out with a dozen kids in a freshman class and by the time they are seniors only a few are remaining - this is very normal as kids find out they are not able to play at a varsity level as they or their parents thought - of course it will be the coaches fault when they quit.
 
hooverspfan said:
Have we completely overlook the human side of sports at the cost of getting the win? Are we to trusting of those who coach our kids? Who evaluating the coaches and holding them accountable? Are our kid’s just mere zombies that show up or do the coaches really care about our kids beyond the game? The schools make sure the parents are well inform about the OHSAA rule’s, but who is making sure the coaches are following the same rules? When I hear the following statements “Trust us we know what we are doing” or “Trust us with you kids.” that set off an alarm that we as parents should pay attention to. Our kids spend a lot time with coaches who can have a profound effect on our kids, by what they say or how the treat them. To often parents are scared to stand up for what is right and that also applies to the school administration. Why you would not stand up for your child. Some coaches do their same old song dance about how they can not play everyone on the bench. Then why have the extra players if they don’t meaning anything to the program? At least play your upper classmen because they are the ones who stuck it out. Maybe they don’t start but they could play a few minutes each game. Maybe we need to revaluate what we are doing and not get so hung up on winning. Winning is fun, but is it worth the cost? I know that some will disagree and that fine, but there are some real issues that need to be address.
Click to expand...

Not sure I follow this post. Perhaps I've missed the point and my reply is off-base.

I agree with you, parents need to not be scared to stand up to a coach if they are aware of something that is not right in a program.

If that wrong-doing is not playing an upper classman because they "stuck it out", I'm not certain I agree.

All things equal, I like the idea of playing the upper classman since it they've "stuck it out". But if the player is clearly not as good? Doesn't the coach have an obligation to the rest of his/her team as well to play to win? Haven't they earned that for all of their hard work? What if those kids worked harder to get where they are and earned their playing time over the kid that "stuck it out"?

I've seen instances where a coaches have been nice enough to keep kids on varsity because they are seniors and he/she did not want to cut them or put them on JV. I've also heard of coaches that give everyone a varsity letter that dressed varsity during the season whether they played or not. Is this more fair or what's best?

I understand and agree with trying to get everyone playing time. However, are varsity sports now to be treated like 10U rec-sports where everyone is guaranteed minutes, a "treat" after the game, and a particpation trophy (varsity letter) at the end of the year just for being on the team? Should we stop keeping score too so no one loses?

What's wrong with earning playing time and awards? Has our society really gotten this soft? What does that teach the kids?
 
To be fair to your question, do you have any examples?

I know of one young lady that the coach treated her like the scum of the earth. He did everything possible to get her to quit. During the tournament last year he would not let her dress and she was a junior on the varsity team. Her team lost the game and each player received the second place metal aspect for this young lady. Her metal was given to a lower classmen who did not deserve it. You could see the emotion on her face and the coach acted like it was no big deal that he just threw this young lady under the bus. Her family said nothing when they had the right to do so. I know there are good coaches, but when we see this type of action this is when something needs to be said. This is an example of coach with an ego.
 
I believe that every kid should earn their right to play. I don't think society has gotten soft. In some cases there are younger players who are good and should play. Society is starting to wake up and realize what is going on. I played sports under the old school rules, but there is room for improvement
.
 
The human side of sports was taken out of the equation when early in life sport specialization and the emphasis on year round play started. Where I am going with this goes a little off thread but this is a systemic problem throughout elementary, jr. high and high school athletics.

There was a news story on ABC World News last week about the growing number of ACL tears in football players under the age of 10. There was an article in the Cincinnati Enquirer on May 13, 2011 about two of the Hamilton, OH little leaguers whose team participated in the Little League World Series needing "Tommy John" surgery in their early teens. I had a parent of a 4th grader say a few days ago that if their child does not compete year round (in more than one sport) they will fall too far behind their peers to be successful. Unfortunately this is the athletic culture we have developed over the last 20 years.

Our young athletes are being overused to the point of physical and emotional harm for many and there is nothing human or humane about it. At all age levels coaches (school and club) preach to parents and athletes that more and more must be done to be successful. Parents, who truly want good things for their kids, buy into this a put kids on more teams and in more private lessons. Kids never hear an opposing argument so they keep going where parents take them even when they have stopped having fun because they know no better.

Funny, you do not hear physicians or psychologists advocate the above. They recommend just the opposite. Less organized athletics and more free play. The ABC story featured a Dr. stating that he had never seen an ACL tear from playing "kick the can". Unfortunately coaches, parents and athletes value the more is better philosophy over what the health care professionals that deal with the physical and emotional fall out of this philosophy advise.
 
hooverspfan said:
I know of one young lady that the coach treated her like the scum of the earth. He did everything possible to get her to quit. During the tournament last year he would not let her dress and she was a junior on the varsity team. Her team lost the game and each player received the second place metal aspect for this young lady. Her metal was given to a lower classmen who did not deserve it. You could see the emotion on her face and the coach acted like it was no big deal that he just threw this young lady under the bus. Her family said nothing when they had the right to do so. I know there are good coaches, but when we see this type of action this is when something needs to be said. This is an example of coach with an ego.
Click to expand...

So, this young lady was a varsity player for the whole season and then tournament time, for no reason, she was told she was no longer dressing and her uniform was given to a JV player?

Was there other circumstances? Disciplinary reasons? Other kid(s) injured and the JV player brought up fit a position need (wanted another "big" or "ball handler" on the bench)?

No explanation offered by the coach? No questions asked by the young lady or her parents?

If not, I'd hope the girl, or her and her parents/dad (if she wanted them there) would have requested a meeting with the coach looking for some answers. Of course, easier said than done. A young girl may not be real keen on the idea of having that meeting or rocking the boat.

Sounds like it ceratainly could have been handled better. Better communication and, if nothing else, the coach probably could have arranged to get her a medal as well since she was a member of the varisty team for the whole year.

"Treating her like scum" is certainly not acceptable. Not saying this is the case but I've heard of similar cases where a coach is not mature enough to make a tough decision or talk face-to-face and be honest with a kid and resorts to bullying or poor treatment so the kid makes the decision for them.
 
Should we trust those who coach are kids , not if they are lawyers they shouldnt coach high school sports .Most lawyers are the most selfish egotistical people there are its about power to them, they are not a good coach for team sports.
 
Wow at all the tangents this thread has taken. I have no problem with standing up for your kid but you gotta realize that if you are the parent there is always some bias towards your child being 'better' than they are and/or if things aren't going well, since you have to deal with the negative end at home, it becomes hard to be supportive of the coach. Coaches should play the best kids period. The more important part though is coaches should be clear and honest with kids when discussing where they stand with the team as far as role, playing time, etc. IF that happens, there won't be much room for complaint imho.
 
Ask me this question after my daughter graduates and is far away at college.... I'll have a great answer for you. Seriously.
 
Yes, tangents. Two different topics.

A) In regards to overuse, Morethanyouknow, American Association of Pediatrics states, "Basic motor skills, such as throwing, catching, kicking, and hitting a ball, do not develop sooner simply as a result of introducing them to children at an earlier age. Teaching or expecting these skills to develop before children are developmentally ready is more likely to cause frustration than long-term success in the sport. Because most youth sports coaches are volunteers with little or no formal training in child development, they cannot be expected to correctly match demands of a sport with a child's readiness to participate." They go on to discuss overuse injuries in young children from this very subject.

This is a parent's responsibility. You will find that some of the best athletes in the world in all sports started late in life and those who started early were primarily doing it to have fun with their family/parents.

B) In my opinion, Junior High is the time to play all kids and develop talent. Once you hit High School you need to play your best players. (Once you hit the floor as a HS player I think you should be looked at as a player, not a Freshman, Sophomore, Junior or Senior.)

I agree with McGal, you need to be up front and respectful with kids. Most good coaches do. Tell players at the beginning of the season of their current standing as far as playing time, but never tell a kid that is set in stone. If you put a player on your team, at least give them the hope they can work their butts off and earn more playing time. If a coach doesnt see that happening, they should cut the child.
 
It is hard to support a coach when he or she praises team work but has a favorite player of there own and its really noticable from every one around, and it will only get worse as the season goes on. When the favorite turns the ball over 5 times a half and startes the second half and another player turns it over 4 times a half and has to sit the start of second half then there is a problem.
 
In all my time as a player, coach, and fan, I've seen thousands of cases where people claimed the coach played favorites and very few (less than 10%?) actually have any bias to them at all. It goes beyond pure statistics. Yes you need the numbers to help get an objective view at what's going on on the floor, but there's the intangibles too. Which kid is the better teammate? Which kid overachieves and which underachieves? Is team continuity in terms of starters/rotation more important than making a point about one lousy quarter/half/stat? Does Kid A or Kid B work harder in practice? Which one is the positive force/talk in the locker room and which is the negative? etc, etc, etc. People who want to be the coach and decide who plays when should do just that... coach. Otherwise, it's very hard to understand what it's like. MOST (key word: most) coaches are not vindictive jerks looking for how to get a kid to quit, nor are MOST blindly loyal to certain kids. It used to be you went to the coach, figured out how to change things, and then got to work on it. In this day and age of blame everything and everyone else, kids are constantly hearing about how it's anyone's fault other than their own for why they aren't playing as much as they'd like.
 
vettman said:
It is hard to support a coach when he or she praises team work but has a favorite player of there own and its really noticable from every one around, and it will only get worse as the season goes on. When the favorite turns the ball over 5 times a half and startes the second half and another player turns it over 4 times a half and has to sit the start of second half then there is a problem.
Click to expand...

Could be a kid touches it 4 times and has 4 to's vs a pg that handles the rock on every possession and has 5. Not equal turnovers at all...coaches try win, they don't sit kids that can help them win (maybe rarely, but they won't have a job long)
 
MCGal said:
In all my time as a player, coach, and fan, I've seen thousands of cases where people claimed the coach played favorites and very few (less than 10%?) actually have any bias to them at all. It goes beyond pure statistics. Yes you need the numbers to help get an objective view at what's going on on the floor, but there's the intangibles too. Which kid is the better teammate? Which kid overachieves and which underachieves? Is team continuity in terms of starters/rotation more important than making a point about one lousy quarter/half/stat? Does Kid A or Kid B work harder in practice? Which one is the positive force/talk in the locker room and which is the negative? etc, etc, etc. People who want to be the coach and decide who plays when should do just that... coach. Otherwise, it's very hard to understand what it's like. MOST (key word: most) coaches are not vindictive jerks looking for how to get a kid to quit, nor are MOST blindly loyal to certain kids. It used to be you went to the coach, figured out how to change things, and then got to work on it. In this day and age of blame everything and everyone else, kids are constantly hearing about how it's anyone's fault other than their own for why they aren't playing as much as they'd like.
Click to expand...

Spoken like someone who has been there and no disrespect towards u but they are out there and this is one of them .
 
Moses Malone said:
Could be a kid touches it 4 times and has 4 to's vs a pg that handles the rock on every possession and has 5. Not equal turnovers at all...coaches try win, they don't sit kids that can help them win (maybe rarely, but they won't have a job long)
Click to expand...

Let me tell you how the coach I know gets around playing her less skilled favorite. She play the most talented girl during the harder games to secure the win and play the less skilled player during the easier games which are easier to score which creates unequal stats.
 
vettman, didn't mean to speak on your situation specifically. Don't know enough to know better I guess lol
 
Ok I give you all those determining factors in picking the line ups. Now if the kid(s) in question out do the favorite in all these things practice, attitude, skill, and being a team player then what? Not to mention the kids in question have all D1 scouts recruiting them while the favorite has NONE. I would like to post a new question. Do you think there should be a conflict of interest clause between players/families and coaches?
 
Runningoutoftime said:
Ok I give you all those determining factors in picking the line ups. Now if the kid(s) in question out do the favorite in all these things practice, attitude, skill, and being a team player then what? Not to mention the kids in question have all D1 scouts recruiting them while the favorite has NONE. I would like to post a new question. Do you think there should be a conflict of interest clause between players/families and coaches?
Click to expand...

As long as a kid has parents there will be a conflict of interest...it's natural to give own kid a benefit of doubt and difficult to remain objective....
 
Runningoutoftime said:
Let me tell you how the coach I know gets around playing her less skilled favorite. She play the most talented girl during the harder games to secure the win and play the less skilled player during the easier games which are easier to score which creates unequal stats.
Click to expand...

Number one, don't care about stats (and neither do college coaches) two, seems reasonable to play best kids against the best and lesser talents vs lesser comp...that's putting kids in a position to succeed!
 
Ok

Moses Malone said:
Number one, don't care about stats (and neither do college coaches) two, seems reasonable to play best kids against the best and lesser talents vs lesser comp...that's putting kids in a position to succeed!
Click to expand...

College coaches don't care about stats... If that's the case why on questionnaires are those the first questions asked after the kids name? Here is a better one, have you ever seen kids make All Conference without the stats or any athletic honor? Don't you think a kid wants the opportunity to have decent stats outside of the difficult games to balance out a low scoring game? I think it's quite deceiving to have a less skilled player who play easier games have better stats than the one who actually helped you win.
 
The stats are an early filter for college coaches but Moses is exactly right.. when it comes down to it, it's the 'other stuff' (heart, work ethic, smarts) and your physical stats/abilities. Unfortunate in some cases (kids who are great players but 'stuck' between positions for instance) but true.
 
holy cow runningoutoftime...you are for SURE one of those parents! So if player A plays in a bad program(bad team), and plays poor comp and avgs 20 pts on 20 shots, and player B plays in a good program(good team/players), plays tough comp, and avgs 10 pts on 8 shots, the college coach is going to aoutomatically want the higher scoring player??? NOT EVEN CLOSE to being right!

Also, you see it all the time, where the best player(s) dont score much against a lesser opponnent, HS, college, and pro. But to satisfy YOUR definition of success, scoring stats, you want the best player to pad/inflate stats against the lesser opponnets because thats fair since they have to play against the tougher teams, which is more difficult to score.

Hope your child is not in my kids program
 
Really?

whiteshadow said:
holy cow runningoutoftime...you are for SURE one of those parents! So if player A plays in a bad program(bad team), and plays poor comp and avgs 20 pts on 20 shots, and player B plays in a good program(good team/players), plays tough comp, and avgs 10 pts on 8 shots, the college coach is going to aoutomatically want the higher scoring player??? NOT EVEN CLOSE to being right!

Also, you see it all the time, where the best player(s) dont score much against a lesser opponnent, HS, college, and pro. But to satisfy YOUR definition of success, scoring stats, you want the best player to pad/inflate stats against the lesser opponnets because thats fair since they have to play against the tougher teams, which is more difficult to score.

Hope your child is not in my kids program
Click to expand...
Please show me where I said the colleges would want A over B? From your response it appears you are not even aware that both player A and B are on the SAME team not different programs and I am referring to games. Please don't respond with comments without understanding the posts. My next point was the importance of fair stats amongsts team me
Members and the importance of stats in awards All Conf, All State, player of the week, anything. Don't say that stats are not important because they are. In addition, I have seen this same coach leave a top player in the game just for the purpose of padding her stats. Once again to address the original post my point is play the best kids and put the best kids in the line ups and stop allowing your personal relationships with the parents interfere with how you treat the rest of the kids in your program.
 
you said college coaches do care, because its on the questionairre.....I gave you a situation about how may points a player avgs not being a good indicator of the players ability.

Fair stats???? what are fair stats....earlier you said the best player played against the good comp, and bad player played against the bad comp, and it was easier to score, so thats not fair. Now your saying the coach leaves in the best player to pad stats...which one is it???

But, at the end of the day stats are just ONE tool to be used to evaluate a players ability, just one, and its probably at the bottom when a college coach or anyone is evaluating if the player can PLAY the game.

Another example of how stats dont come close to showing a players ability......Mitchell from princeton avgs 17 pts a game, lets say a player from deer park avgs 18 points a game....so the numbers say they are equal in ability based on their "stats" - not even close
 
Ok

Same team and same coach but 2 different kids. You and I might agree that it's not the best indicator but the facts are they do use stats as an Indicator and if they didnt why would they ask? You act like you dont understand the concept that All Conf, All State, has ALOT to do with stats. I know this because using your example a kid who averaged ex. 20 points on a sub par team makes first team all Conf while a kid who averaged 15 points on an exellent program didn't even make the list and trust me this young lady far surpasses 80% of the people on the entire list.
Are you basically saying that you think it's ok for the better players to play the harder games and have the other players play the easier games? Don't you think the better players would like to play some games without all the pressure? Are you saying because you are more skilled that you should only be allowed to play under pressure? I would hate for my kid to be apart of your program where the only time she gets to showcase her skills are under pressure situations. You would cause her to get discouraged and quit for sure.
 
Well, usually the better players "want" to play better comp, and usually perform "better" against the tougher comp.(UC/Presbyterian example) They get bored, lose focus. I havent had any players who would get upset because they may play less, get less opportunities against a weaker opponent.

In fact the majority of them are "happy" to see the players who get less time, BUT work hard everyday in practice to push them and make them better, get an opportunity to perform and get opportunities. None, sit and whine and moan and say "but instead of 10 i could have had 20, or 25" instead, they cheer and are happy for them. I would guess if they have that attitude of "I need to get mine", it comes directly from their parents who want to put it on their facebook page, or clip it out in the paper! 1st stage of the "Disease of me", feeling of not getting of what THEY(I) deserve.

Shoot, why not tell your kid "yeah you won by 30 today, and you had 10, sure you could have had over 20, but go get that against good comp and help your team win when they need you, thats what good players do, rise to the challenge"

As for pressure games/comp - if they shy away from that, than I truly question if they are a player and what type of program they are playing in.

As for your situation, if all is true, i would say it is the exception, the majority know how to handle the less comp situation and the overall importance of numbers in truly evaluating a players ability.
 
Last edited:
MCGal said:
vettman, didn't mean to speak on your situation specifically. Don't know enough to know better I guess lol
Click to expand...

I didnt take it that way at all, It sounds like you know alot about the game itself, basketball to me is a total team sport you cant try to make one player the team when that player cant carry the team.
 
The original premise of this post in ridiculous. It sounds more like a parent whose child is not talented enough to play. It is a team sport. You put the best players on the team on the court so the TEAM can succeed. If getting playing time is most important thing to the player, there is always intramural or pick up games. But when on a TEAM, the TEAM comes first. If the player is not talented enough to contribute during games, there are many other ways to contribute to a TEAM! The best way to do that is to be a great TEAMMATE!! Not someone who whines b/c she believe they should play only b/c she is a Senior.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top