Elder Enrollment Strategy

Is there any land or buildings the AoC doesn’t own on the campuses of these schools?

Im thinking of places like the large plot of land like St Judes baseball fields behind the school? Do they pretty much own everything and anything on these campuses?

Any chance for an independent entity to start their own charter? I know that would take millions.
 
So thinking of a real world example. If they’re going from 200 to 60, 3-4 current parishes will form one. Let’s say Lourdes, Jude and Antoninus consolidated together.

Hypothetically, Jude is the parish hub. So Jude keeps the parish office for the 3 schools? What happens to the infrastructure at Lourdes and Antoninus? Do they continue to use the buildings and grounds for classes, Church and sports, or do those 2 schools close completely?

If they close, are the school buildings sold off? The Churches too? Obviously the parish office staff would be laid off as they won’t need 3. You would still need staff for upkeep all all 3 properties, assuming they would need some extra classroom and grounds space for sports. Does the “hub” parish take on all of that responsibility?

And with pastors that they admit arent ready to lead even one parish, who is going to lead multiple parishes with multiple locations, bigger budgets, and 3x the number of people? Are these still priests leading this effort, or are they going to find business people?
 
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So thinking of a real world example. If they’re going from 200 to 60, 3-4 current parishes will form one. Let’s say Lourdes, Jude and Antoninus consolidated together.

Hypothetically, Jude is the parish hub. So Jude keeps the parish office for the 3 schools? What happens to the infrastructure at Lourdes and Antoninus? Do they continue to use the buildings and grounds for classes, Church and sports, or do those 2 schools close completely?

If they close, are the school buildings sold off? The Churches too? Obviously the parish office staff would be laid off as they won’t need 3. You would still need staff for upkeep all all 3 properties, assuming they would need some extra classroom and grounds space for sports. Does the “hub” parish take on all of that responsibility?

And with pastors that they admit arent ready to lead even one parish, who is going to lead multiple parishes with multiple locations, bigger budgets, and 3x the number of people? Are these still priests leading this effort, or are they going to find business people?
What would probably happen in that scenario is that Jude would be the parish church with a school and either Antoninus or Lourdes would be kept as a worship site for the parish. There probably would be two schools, one at Jude and the other at Antoninus or Lourdes. The campus not selected would be sold. The rectory at the worship site could be sold as well. It’s a lot harder for parishes like Jude/Lourdes/Antoninus that are relatively healthy. It’s not too hard to figure out what’s going to happen to truly declining parishes.
 
Yeah you would think the parishes like Jude, Lourdes, Antoninus, Visi, Ignatius, Victory, and maybe even Dominic feel like they can still do this themselves.

But with the numbers thrown out there, 3-4 of those schools will have to consolidate in some fashion. But they’re all so close together there’s no way they keep them all open.

The likely candidates are probably Lourdes, Dominic and Antoninus, just based on size (both enrollment and campus size), at least for the ones in Delhi and Green Township.

There will be quite a few in Price Hill.
 
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I just can’t see a scenario where they touch Victory, Visi, or Jude, unless they consolidate Jude with Visi - that would be a nightmare.
 
I just can’t see a scenario where they touch Victory, Visi, or Jude, unless they consolidate Jude with Visi - that would be a nightmare.
I think St. Jude will absorb St. Aloysius, Victory will take St. Vincent de Paul, St. Aloysius, and St. Simon, Visi will take St. Joseph and St. Bernard.
 
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Will be interesting what they do with Lourdes, Dominic, Antoninus and Teresa. You could honestly consolidate all of those into one.

This probably also kills parochial sports. Maybe not football, but it will be the final nail in baseball and basketball as kids will just play in their club teams. Parents won’t want to deal with the inevitable mess sports will be.
 
Will be interesting what they do with Lourdes, Dominic, Antoninus and Teresa. You could honestly consolidate all of those into one.

This probably also kills parochial sports. Maybe not football, but it will be the final nail in baseball and basketball as kids will just play in their club teams. Parents won’t want to deal with the inevitable mess sports will be.
Going to be interesting to see how this also affects festivals. For instance, St. Williams normally had a very large and well attended festival, if they consolidate with another parish, going to be interesting to see if festival organizers go to new church to help boost their revenues or of the new church that absorbed them will even want them.

I'm not saying Williams will be absorbed, just using as an example.
 
Mercy McAuley is probably a great smaller scale example of what to expect. People aren’t automatically just going to say yes to their new parish.

Mercy McAuley has been ok but they are not growing at all, and I don’t think anyone is surprised by that knowing there are alternatives. The consolidation plan to 60 honestly might lead to 30.
 
Going to be interesting to see how this also affects festivals. For instance, St. Williams normally had a very large and well attended festival, if they consolidate with another parish, going to be interesting to see if festival organizers go to new church to help boost their revenues or of the new church that absorbed them will even want them.

I'm not saying Williams will be absorbed, just using as an example.
Sadly I think a lot of things like festivals or parish organizations will be collateral victims of the mergers. I also think you’ll see a lot of people who still drive to their old parishes just start going places closer to home.
 
Will be interesting what they do with Lourdes, Dominic, Antoninus and Teresa. You could honestly consolidate all of those into one.

This probably also kills parochial sports. Maybe not football, but it will be the final nail in baseball and basketball as kids will just play in their club teams. Parents won’t want to deal with the inevitable mess sports will be.
If you combined all 4 of those schools you would have approx 1200 kids at one school? That wouldn't work for anyone. I can see them consolidating/shutting some schools down. I would take baby steps and start by closing down 10% of them the first yr and then going yr to yr to see how things go?
 
You really can’t do any of this quickly, so I’m sure it will be an evolution over the next few years.
 
Although a parish could have multiple schools. If all the Price Hill parishes merged together you might still have two schools. Don’t know how that would work financially though. They did this in Pittsburgh and they ended up having to merge a ton of schools after they did the parishes because enrollment dropped and parish support dried up with parishes having more than one school.
My two-cents worth would be that a parish "family" would have one school. If the diocese will be consolidating from 210 parishes to 60 "families" multiple schools will be merged together. Phil you make a good point about the situation in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. My hope is that our archdiocesan decision makers will have learned from that.

My guess is that from north of the Ohio River but inside the 275 loop may consist of at most 25-30 "families". One can assume that Harrison will be left with one church/school. If I'm not mistaken a Harrison parish just opened a new church within the last year so that will probably be the Catholic hub for that city.

I am also assuming that many parishes without grade schools will merge with larger communities (especially if the parish offers little if any outreach ministries). So for instance I would guess that:

St. Vincent DePaul would be absorbed by St. Dominic.
St. Simon would be absorbed by Victory.
St. Al's on the Ohio would be absorbed by Visitation.

I have no inside information but I also don't foresee the west side being limited to only 2 or 3 Catholic "families". I am looking forward to hearing the plan.
 
I have been told St. Theresa and St Williams, which is already a pastoral region will be a parish family with one other parish joining them. No immediate closures, however within the next 3-4 years, these three will eventually form one parish and decide the future of the the three schools and churches. Will be interesting to see who the third parish is. I would assume St Lawrence, Holy Family and Resurrection will merge together. So who will join Theresa and Williams?
 
Sadly I think a lot of things like festivals or parish organizations will be collateral victims of the mergers. I also think you’ll see a lot of people who still drive to their old parishes just start going places closer to home.

There is no other outcome. Take the "reported" St. Teresa/St. William parish merger. One of the Churches will have to close correct? Both are beautiful Churches that have been around for 75 years. What will they do with the Church that will close? Will they tear it down? Will it be kept open for Weddings and Funerals? Will they sell the property and the new owners either tear it down or renovate it for a business venture? Anyways, if the property is sold, then yes that Parish festival is history unless the newly formed Parish holds multiple festivals a year which is possible. Some sports programs will ultimately fold for that parish/school like soccer, basketball, baseball/softball.

How will long time parish members or even new parish members feel about their Church closing permanently? I think once an announcement is made, there will be an uproar but it will be too late at that point. Then again, maybe people don't care. Just using Teresa and Williams as an example, I know there are plenty of proud parishoners in both that may no longer still live close to the parish but still support the Church either attending mass or going to festivals or other parish events. I think you will see a lot of unhappy people, but the Archdiocese has already made up their mind on this.
 
I have been told St. Theresa and St Williams, which is already a pastoral region will be a parish family with one other parish joining them. No immediate closures, however within the next 3-4 years, these three will eventually form one parish and decide the future of the the three schools and churches. Will be interesting to see who the third parish is. I would assume St Lawrence, Holy Family and Resurrection will merge together. So who will join Theresa and Williams?
Could it be Dominic? St. Dominic is under 2 miles from both of those churches and the school is large enough to absorb those other 2. We may have been looking at this the wrong way geographically by neighborhoods instead of actual physical distances between parishes.
 
Here is the timeline for the reorganization for those that missed it or forgot. Winter I'm guessing in mid January is the big announcement.

TIMELINE
- Key Steps on the Road From Maintenance to Mission

FALL 2020: Beacons of Light projet launch announced. Data gathering from parishes and schools begins.
WINTER 2020-2021: Six principles of Beacons of Light are established. Design of parish planning process(including vision points and parameters) begins.
SPRING 2021: Parish and school data is analyzed. Current reality is assessed.
SUMMER 2021: Families of Parishes modeling begins. Draft of parish planning process is completed.
FALL 2021: Draft models of Families of Parishes are published for comment. Parish planning process(including vision points and parameters) is finalized.
WINTER 2021-2022: Families of Parishes are finalized and announced.
SPRING 2022: Pastors and parish leaders begin preparing for the parish planning process.
SUMMER 2022: Families of Parishes implementation begins. Each family starts its parish planning process.
 
So basically, this coming school year will be the last “normal” year, assuming everything runs to plan?

By next school year, decisions will have to be made as to where a kid will be going to school?

Can a kid decide to attend any grade school he wants? For example, he lives by Dominic but decides to go to Visitation? Or will they have to stay in a “territory”?
 
Also, think about how the football programs have merged? If the family parish isn’t merged that way, does that blow it all up, or are sports completely separate?

What a cluster.
 
Also, think about how the football programs have merged? If the family parish isn’t merged that way, does that blow it all up, or are sports completely separate?

What a cluster.

I think that would blow it all up. I remember some posts on here about the Archdiocese wanting to take over the CYO sports (probably a money grab). They could take over and blow up anything and everything related to school/parish sports up if they want to. It would likely kill any competitive league if they did resulting in most of the good players opting for club sports. They wouldn't care.
 
One thing that comes with consolidation is uniformity and the biggest question to answer is how school tuition will be set – I believe most eastside schools approach their finances that the school and church run as two separate entities thus their tuition is higher, westside they combine both church & school. How tuition is set is critical as with the consolidation, they are stripping out much of the administrative burden which in theory will lower their fixed costs – will they lower it or take the “profits”. If tuition is set higher on the westside schools, this could dramatically affect enrollment.

From a sports standpoint, how will they be ran which I believe will be from downtown as they have tried this before. Most kids will play for their school but who is going to govern the rules and again the fees, each school is different with how will they charge for participation and at the gate. Also, how will tournaments be managed, again the Archdiocese at one point was dickering around with limiting only 3 tournaments to participate in. For the most part, the seasons run as the same for both sides other than girl’s volleyball and basketball – GWAC is Nov/Dec for vball and Jan-March for basketball – eastside is fall vball and parallels boys basketball. If they change this, girls vball will be dramatically affected. Another interesting angle is how the refs will be managed. Archdiocese wants to 1099 the refs which is driven more from pressure from the IRS. There is a lot of money cumulatively ($1-$2 million) sitting in athletics coffers throughout the city. I believe all the athletics revenue/expenses may even be on the same accounting platform as the parrish’s.

From a festival standpoint, most westside schools run their festival through the athletic association, eastside through the school. The advantage from the westside is this is bypassing the archdiocese’s assessment of around 8%.

Schnurr is a trained accountant – accountants like consistency and a controlled environment.
 
One thing that comes with consolidation is uniformity and the biggest question to answer is how school tuition will be set – I believe most eastside schools approach their finances that the school and church run as two separate entities thus their tuition is higher, westside they combine both church & school. How tuition is set is critical as with the consolidation, they are stripping out much of the administrative burden which in theory will lower their fixed costs – will they lower it or take the “profits”. If tuition is set higher on the westside schools, this could dramatically affect enrollment.

From a sports standpoint, how will they be ran which I believe will be from downtown as they have tried this before. Most kids will play for their school but who is going to govern the rules and again the fees, each school is different with how will they charge for participation and at the gate. Also, how will tournaments be managed, again the Archdiocese at one point was dickering around with limiting only 3 tournaments to participate in. For the most part, the seasons run as the same for both sides other than girl’s volleyball and basketball – GWAC is Nov/Dec for vball and Jan-March for basketball – eastside is fall vball and parallels boys basketball. If they change this, girls vball will be dramatically affected. Another interesting angle is how the refs will be managed. Archdiocese wants to 1099 the refs which is driven more from pressure from the IRS. There is a lot of money cumulatively ($1-$2 million) sitting in athletics coffers throughout the city. I believe all the athletics revenue/expenses may even be on the same accounting platform as the parrish’s.

From a festival standpoint, most westside schools run their festival through the athletic association, eastside through the school. The advantage from the westside is this is bypassing the archdiocese’s assessment of around 8%.

Schnurr is a trained accountant – accountants like consistency and a controlled environment.
Interesting thoughts I didn't think of yet. Thanks for the insight.

Good luck getting officials if you 1099 them.
 
Schnurr is a trained accountant
This all makes so much more sense now.

For what it's worth, Schnurr just turned 73 a few weeks ago. Catholic bishops are required to submit a letter of resignation to the Pope at age 75--though His Holiness can delay accepting the resignation. You have to assume the goal is to have this dumpster fire finished by the time Schnurr retires.
 

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This all makes so much more sense now.

For what it's worth, Schnurr just turned 73 a few weeks ago. Catholic bishops are required to submit a letter of resignation to the Pope at age 75--though His Holiness can delay accepting the resignation. You have to assume the goal is to have this dumpster fire finished by the time Schnurr retires.
It will be delayed. Bishop Foys in Covington is 76, he submitted his letter a year ago, and Covington has essentially been told they are in a waiting pattern indefinitely until a decision or replacement is found.
 
It will be delayed. Bishop Foys in Covington is 76, he submitted his letter a year ago, and Covington has essentially been told they are in a waiting pattern indefinitely until a decision or replacement is found.
I think it depends on how much the Pope and/or apostolic nuncio and bishop in question get along with one another. Philadelphia's previous archbishop Charles Chaput (who's much more conservative than Pope Francis) turned 75 in September 2019 and his successor was announced by January 2020.
 
There are a lot of kids at Elder on vouchers. Basically anyone that is living in a failing school district (some CPS and did I hear Taylor got a failing grade) are receiving aid. Basically anyone living in the city and maybe even a lot of the new subdivisions out in Northbend Ohio.

I may be wrong on Taylor but thought I heard that.

Vouchers have done way more to keep feeder kids than attract non feeder kids.

There are still financial requirements in order to get a voucher. Family income cannot be more than 200% of the federal poverty level.
 
I was reading this in an article on cincinnati.com which explains it well. Also, the school is on the hook to meet the rest of the cost of educating the student which comes from the school's financial aid fund.

There’s another benefit that some opposed to private schools believe those schools, or many of those schools, possess. That would be the Ohio EdChoice Scholarship Program, which provides $4,650 for kindergarten through eighth-grade students, and $6,000 for those in high school to go toward the cost of tuition at a private school.

To be eligible for that program, the student has to come from a family with an income of no more than 200% of the federal poverty level. They also have to attend one of the designated 473 school buildings across 87 public school districts, which includes both urban and rural districts.

Private-school administrators and coaches point out that very few schools are bringing in a student solely on EdChoice money. That money would only cover between half to two-thirds of the tuition costs for many private schools.

“Even if you get an EdChoice kid, what people are forgetting is if we’re getting an EdChoice kid for $6,500, we still have to bankroll that other $6,500,” said T.K. Griffith, interim principal and boys basketball coach at Hoban. “It’s about $13,000 to go to Hoban. We still have to grant-in-aid that other $6,500, and that’s coming from our financial aid resources. It’s not like we’re making $12,000 off this youngster. There’s still a deficit for us to pay our teachers and everything.”
 
There are still financial requirements in order to get a voucher. Family income cannot be more than 200% of the federal poverty level.
It is my understanding there are different types of vouchers, unless it has changed recently. One is income based, and the other is only dependent upon living in a failing school district.

So In theory, you could be making good money and qualify for the latter. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
 
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