Division VI State Championship: Carey (14-1) vs Coldwater (13-2)

Who wins the state championship?


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4GX

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Difference in outcome IMO. Game was secured with power in the trenches to start second half. Power will nullify speed most every time. Sustained power was difference in this one.
This is quite frequently NOT TRUE... the Kansas City Chiefs' Super Bowl Champs of 2020 are a testament to the exact opposite-- and there are literally hundreds of games that go the opposite of this claim, every season. For 3/4 of the Division IV title game, Ursuline's speed was too much for Clinton-Massie's power-- but it reversed at the end-- but it certainly doesn't ALWAYS... there was a time when Ohio State (under Woody Hayes) regularly came up short in the Rose Bowl, because Ohio State relied strictly on power-- and then often lost to less powerful, but speedier teams in the Rose Bowl (I specifically remember watching it happen in losses to Stanford, UCLA, and USC)...
 

thavoice

Well-known member
This is quite frequently NOT TRUE... the Kansas City Chiefs' Super Bowl Champs of 2020 are a testament to the exact opposite-- and there are literally hundreds of games that go the opposite of this claim, every season. For 3/4 of the Division IV title game, Ursuline's speed was too much for Clinton-Massie's power-- but it reversed at the end-- but it certainly doesn't ALWAYS... there was a time when Ohio State (under Woody Hayes) regularly came up short in the Rose Bowl, because Ohio State relied strictly on power-- and then often lost to less powerful, but speedier teams in the Rose Bowl (I specifically remember watching it happen in losses to Stanford, UCLA, and USC)...
You cannot compare the NFL to HS and to do so is comical.

In the NFL, a great power running team has a much smaller power advantage over their opponants. Sans the NE/Buffalo game where NE only threw 3 passes, even top running NFL teams HAVE to be able to pass. You dont see NFL teams dominate in the NFL by running it 80%+ of the time like you see in HS.

You want to bring up Ursuline and CM......CM owned the second HALF, not just 1/4 of the game.....

In HS, a big and powerful team can and ROUTINELY just manhandle their opponent and nothing those teams can do could stop it. There is a reason why in HS that most teams are VERY heavy on the run. They just physically whip the other team up front and opponents are powerless week after week.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
You cannot compare the NFL to HS and to do so is comical.

In the NFL, a great power running team has a much smaller power advantage over their opponants. Sans the NE/Buffalo game where NE only threw 3 passes, even top running NFL teams HAVE to be able to pass. You dont see NFL teams dominate in the NFL by running it 80%+ of the time like you see in HS.

You want to bring up Ursuline and CM......CM owned the second HALF, not just 1/4 of the game.....

In HS, a big and powerful team can and ROUTINELY just manhandle their opponent and nothing those teams can do could stop it. There is a reason why in HS that most teams are VERY heavy on the run. They just physically whip the other team up front and opponents are powerless week after week.
This is true, Titans rushed for nearly 250 yds. vs the Pats had 2 rbs. go over 100 yds. and lost 36 - 13.
 

4GX

Well-known member
You cannot compare the NFL to HS and to do so is comical.

In the NFL, a great power running team has a much smaller power advantage over their opponants. Sans the NE/Buffalo game where NE only threw 3 passes, even top running NFL teams HAVE to be able to pass. You dont see NFL teams dominate in the NFL by running it 80%+ of the time like you see in HS.

You want to bring up Ursuline and CM......CM owned the second HALF, not just 1/4 of the game.....

In HS, a big and powerful team can and ROUTINELY just manhandle their opponent and nothing those teams can do could stop it. There is a reason why in HS that most teams are VERY heavy on the run. They just physically whip the other team up front and opponents are powerless week after week.
You CAN compare the NFL to HS-- you don't give a reason why not-- you just say it is so-- THAT is comical...and CM did not begin to exert any dominance until late in the 3rd Quarter-- they were still down by 3 TDs, late in the third quarter.

The NFL has become pass dominated-- the New England win (with 3 passes) is being mentioned because it COMPLETELY goes against the trend of the league-- and most likely happened because Buffalo has built a defense to try to stop passing teams.

I notice you did NOT address why higher-ranked, power-running Woody Hayes' Ohio State teams lost (at LEAST) 3 times in the Rose Bowl in the 1970's to Pac-8 teams that were less powerful than the Buckeyes-- because it doesn't fit your paradigm. Your paradigm is wrong.

X destroyed Pick Central in the Division I title game last year-- it was 44-3 at half-time (which is HOW it finished, TOO)--and virtually ALL of the damage was done by X's passing game-- X had a receiver with 4 TD catches in the first half (it would have been 5 TDs for him, had he not been incorrectly marked down on the 1/2 yard line on another play); meanwhile, PC came out, planning to rely on its "power-running game" (with the QB or the TB running out of the I-formation), with its offensive and defensive lines STACKED with top college Division I recruits-- and got BLOWN out of the game (despite having virtually ALL of the highest recruited, fastest, and most athletic players on the field that day-- including "Sonny" Styles, who just jumped to Ohio State, a year early, this week)-- PC's power running game and huge offensive line were TOTALLY ineffective against X's emphasis on speed (over size), positioning, scheme, and tackling on defense-- and PC had the fastest, most elusive, most highly recruited player on the field (Styles' older brother, now at ND)-- but completely failed to utilize him, because of PC's Stone-Age offense, and emphasis on power-running.
 

Raylan_Givens

Well-known member
For the speed vs power conversation allow me to interject that tomorrow is Army-Navy game. Two teams that possess neither trait but have found ways to have success regardless (Navy 15 bowl games in 20 years, Army taking Oklahoma & Michigan to OT on the road in recent years).

Think the bottom line is BOTH speed & power are good, but it comes down to maximizing what you have. Good coaches do that. Great coaches do that consistently.
 
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serpico

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You CAN compare the NFL to HS-- you don't give a reason why not-- you just say it is so-- THAT is comical...and CM did not begin to exert any dominance until late in the 3rd Quarter-- they were still down by 3 TDs, late in the third quarter.

The NFL has become pass dominated-- the New England win (with 3 passes) is being mentioned because it COMPLETELY goes against the trend of the league-- and most likely happened because Buffalo has built a defense to try to stop passing teams.

I notice you did NOT address why higher-ranked, power-running Woody Hayes' Ohio State teams lost (at LEAST) 3 times in the Rose Bowl in the 1970's to Pac-8 teams that were less powerful than the Buckeyes-- because it doesn't fit your paradigm. Your paradigm is wrong.

X destroyed Pick Central in the Division I title game last year-- it was 44-3 at half-time (which is HOW it finished, TOO)--and virtually ALL of the damage was done by X's passing game-- X had a receiver with 4 TD catches in the first half (it would have been 5 TDs for him, had he not been incorrectly marked down on the 1/2 yard line on another play); meanwhile, PC came out, planning to rely on its "power-running game" (with the QB or the TB running out of the I-formation), with its offensive and defensive lines STACKED with top college Division I recruits-- and got BLOWN out of the game (despite having virtually ALL of the highest recruited, fastest, and most athletic players on the field that day-- including "Sonny" Styles, who just jumped to Ohio State, a year early, this week)-- PC's power running game and huge offensive line were TOTALLY ineffective against X's emphasis on speed (over size), positioning, scheme, and tackling on defense-- and PC had the fastest, most elusive, most highly recruited player on the field (Styles' older brother, now at ND)-- but completely failed to utilize him, because of PC's Stone-Age offense, and emphasis on power-running.
Tiger LaVerde and his six rings would like a word.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
You CAN compare the NFL to HS-- you don't give a reason why not-- you just say it is so-- THAT is comical...and CM did not begin to exert any dominance until late in the 3rd Quarter-- they were still down by 3 TDs, late in the third quarter.

The NFL has become pass dominated-- the New England win (with 3 passes) is being mentioned because it COMPLETELY goes against the trend of the league-- and most likely happened because Buffalo has built a defense to try to stop passing teams.

I notice you did NOT address why higher-ranked, power-running Woody Hayes' Ohio State teams lost (at LEAST) 3 times in the Rose Bowl in the 1970's to Pac-8 teams that were less powerful than the Buckeyes-- because it doesn't fit your paradigm. Your paradigm is wrong.

X destroyed Pick Central in the Division I title game last year-- it was 44-3 at half-time (which is HOW it finished, TOO)--and virtually ALL of the damage was done by X's passing game-- X had a receiver with 4 TD catches in the first half (it would have been 5 TDs for him, had he not been incorrectly marked down on the 1/2 yard line on another play); meanwhile, PC came out, planning to rely on its "power-running game" (with the QB or the TB running out of the I-formation), with its offensive and defensive lines STACKED with top college Division I recruits-- and got BLOWN out of the game (despite having virtually ALL of the highest recruited, fastest, and most athletic players on the field that day-- including "Sonny" Styles, who just jumped to Ohio State, a year early, this week)-- PC's power running game and huge offensive line were TOTALLY ineffective against X's emphasis on speed (over size), positioning, scheme, and tackling on defense-- and PC had the fastest, most elusive, most highly recruited player on the field (Styles' older brother, now at ND)-- but completely failed to utilize him, because of PC's Stone-Age offense, and emphasis on power-running.
Wrong.
 

Michael Hirn

Well-known member
Chatted with coach Mershman this week about his teams win:

 

4GX

Well-known member
Tiger LaVerde and his six rings would like a word.
OK-- sounds like he'd be interesting to talk to... I'd ask him why NO top teams at the top levels of HS, College, or Pro football are exclusively running teams any more...
 
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