Division 6 State Championship: Coldwater (14-1) vs Kirtland (15-0)

[Stirred not Shaken]

Quote from Tim Goodwin Press Pros: It’s cold, and if you can control the line of scrimmage, run the ball hard, and play good defense you’re going to be successful. That’s why when you go to the state finals you don’t see finesse teams there. You don’t see pure spread teams there. It’s Ohio and you’ve got to get through November.”

Pretty much sums up it up.

 

[1486wd]

How would Kirtland fans say their secondary is this year? I know they had to replace a lot in that area. I'm sure they have improved a great deal during the year, but putting aside their improvement, are they comparable to the group that Marion Local faced in 2022 as Juniors and Versailles faced last year as seniors? The players numbers that I'm thinking of were 3, 18, 10 and 11. That was a good group of players. Stirred mentioned the weather, but let's assume the weather ends up being somewhat acceptable for passing, perhaps Coldwater can have some success there. I think the Cavs will keep the game close, but ultimately the ground game of the Hornets will win it.

In my opinion - passing the ball is Coldwater’s biggest opportunity if the have a good passing game. Kirtland run D is excellent and their running game is elite. They haven’t had to pass much, so it’s hard to say how strong they are there ( I will say for what it’s worth with the small sample size, probably not much - in the two games against Dalton, I think they threw 4 times and Dalton picked off three of them). They haven’t had to do it much. I think there is opportunity to have some success passing the ball against them.

 

[Stirred not Shaken]

In my opinion - passing the ball is Coldwater’s biggest opportunity if the have a good passing game. Kirtland run D is excellent and their running game is elite. They haven’t had to pass much, so it’s hard to say how strong they are there ( I will say for what it’s worth with the small sample size, probably not much - in the two games against Dalton, I think they threw 4 times and Dalton picked off three of them). They haven’t had to do it much. I think there is opportunity to have some success passing the ball against them.

Coldwater has a good passing attack maybe the best of any team outside Moeller at state this weekend. But the weather and Kirtland's defense will make throwing the football difficult.

 

[Kirtland4580]

I’m really looking forward to seeing how this one goes. Both teams have been dominant on their playoff runs. It’s two unstoppable objects colliding with one another.

With the Hornets, their initial concern to start the season was replacing a bunch of starters on defense. Case in point…allowing 34 points to Dalton in Week 1. As the season has progressed, the Hornets really hit their stride defensively around Week 7. Since then, the starting D has allowed only a couple of scores. What also helps is that Kirtland had dealt with the injury bug after the Week 3 triple OT game vs. Perry. Some key injuries were suffered in the weeks that followed, but the Hornets are now completely healthy based on what I can surmise.

That said, the Hornets D hasn’t faced a potent offensive attack like Coldwater’s since facing Perry in a torrential downpour that could have in all likelihood been a 43-42 type of game rather than 22-21 had it not rained cats & dogs. The Cavs have put up 50+ points in a bunch of games this year & have shown the ability to rack up points against quality teams like Minster, Clinton-Massie, Anna, etc. to name a few. Marion Local is as much of a machine as ever this year, so I look past that 0 point outing. From what I can see, they have little to no weaknesses on offense. Their QB makes smart, accurate decisions with a rocket arm, their RBs are strong like bulls, their WRs run great routes & find ways to catch the ball even when it’s a bit off target, and their OL has quick jumps & get a really strong push off the line without missing many blocks.

As for Kirtland’s offense, to nobody’s surprise, they want to run the ball & run it often. It’s not possible for them to do without their offensive line. Last season, the o-line was the team’s biggest question mark. This year, it’s their biggest strength, as they can roll 7 or 8 deep. If I’m not mistaken, I thought I read somewhere that 30+ different Hornets have carried the ball at least once this year.

Lastly, looking at Coldwater’s defense, they look fast & they look mean. Like the Hornets, they swarm to the ball & they gang tackle very effectively. Their linebackers look fantastic at keying in on reads & executing their assignments. And it looked like their d-line got a really good run & pass rush against Bluffton from what I saw.

All in all, both teams are stout on each side of the ball. Both teams play clean fundamental football. Both teams have been here before, holding well-established traditions. Both teams are playing with an incredible sense of purpose this season. And both teams have numerous reasons to win this game, but only one can come out victorious. Expecting a great battle on Saturday! This has the makings of a classic in another chapter of Kirtland vs. the MAC.

 

[State2013-1]

This year, it’s their biggest strength, as they can roll 7 or 8 deep. If I’m not mistaken, I thought I read somewhere that 30+ different Hornets have carried the ball at least once this year.

Wait, wait ️ Did I read this right? That's astounding

 

[Kirtland4580]

Wait, wait ️ Did I read this right? That's astounding
View attachment 70409

If Kirtland played in a league like the MAC, that number is probably closer to 15 or 20 than 30 or 35, but still…a rather impressive nugget of sharing the rock.

 

[Bball216]

CW will come in with a good gameplan. They will not play a 4 man defensive front ( like Northmor) and will line up man on man. This game will be two teams knocking each other's heads off the whole game. What else would you expect from a Kirtland vs MAC game. You will need to take advantage of any breaks you get and you cannot turn the ball over - the team that does that has a great chance of hoisting the gold. I'm excited to see a great game between two great programs.

 

[ATOBTTR]

Outside of the D7 state final it looks like we have a great slate of games on hand, with this one being the best, IMO. Give me Kirtland by a score, though I'll be rooting for the Cavs.

 

[serpico]

Kirtland is 0-3 when facing an undefeated MAC champion in the finals, and 4-2 when facing a MAC team that didn’t win the league outright. This bodes well for the Hornets in this game.

 

[fantastic50]

Don't think Tiger won't use that.

It is very rare for either of these teams to be an underdog in a playoff game, so someone was likely to get bulletin-board material.

I enjoyed chatting with Coach LaVerde last March, when Wooster was the neutral site for the Fairview/Kirtland district basketball game.

 

[ctowner]

I got Kirtland by 9. 30-21

I think Kirtland and ML are extremely comparable but see CW overperforming today to keep it close.

Can any Kirtland fans answer me this, how many different MAC teams has Kirtland played now?

Kirtland vs The MAC in state finals...

2011 Coldwater W 07-28
2012 Coldwater L 09-10
2014 Minster L 42-46
2015 Marion Local W 22-20
2017 Marion Local L 11-34
2018 Marion Local W 16-07
2021 Versailles L 16-20
2022 Marion Local L 06-14
2023 Versailles W 13-03

 

[Kirtland4580]

Kirtland vs The MAC in state finals...

2011 Coldwater W 07-28
2012 Coldwater L 09-10
2014 Minster L 42-46
2015 Marion Local W 22-20
2017 Marion Local L 11-34
2018 Marion Local W 16-07
2021 Versailles L 16-20
2022 Marion Local L 06-14
2023 Versailles W 13-03

All numbers & results look correct here except for 2023; should read 32-15. Some tough battles & fond memories (both good & bad) across those 9 games.

 

[ex_dc_atc]

If there is a "type" of team that can sometimes give Coldwater some issues, I would say it's a team with a "physical" type of style. Maybe that's because Coldwater is a little more of a spread offense and that type of team can be a bit of the Ying to Coldwater's Yang. These are two exceptionally coached teams for their levels of football. I'm excited to see what both coaches come up with to combat what each other does well. My gut tells me Kirtland makes this another lower scoring, physical style of football game. Or, they try to, but Coldwater gets the offense going this time around. I'm going contrarian and say Coldwater controls the tempo and pace of play early. I think we see more points than some of their prior meetings. I'll go with:

Coldwater 28
Kirtland 21

 

[Msfootball]

All numbers & results look correct here except for 2023; should read 32-15. Some tough battles & fond memories (both good & bad) across those 9 games.

Do you have a game on that list that was the most painful? It was 2015 for me. 2018 was more tolerable to take. Pretty much knew the Flyers were at a disadvantage going into it in the trenches.

 

[Raylan_Givens]

Question - how many of the Coldwater specialists play defense? Thinking back to the year they played Carey remember the QB & a WR (i think) playing in the secondary making tackle after tackle and you could see it wear on them.

Will be interested to see what CW does to get a quick score/steal a possession to make Kirtland play left handed. Not to insult anyone else on their schedule, but Kirtland hasn't played a this well coached of a team since week 3 at Perry.

 

[Raylan_Givens]

Do you have a game on that list that was the most painful? It was 2015 for me. 2018 was more tolerable to take. Pretty much knew the Flyers were at a disadvantage going into it in the trenches.

As a neutral spectator, that 22 game was extremely painful to watch. Howling wind, bitter temps, and the sound of pads cracking on every play . . . I simultaneously felt like a wimp & proud to be an American.

 

[State2013-1]

Do you have a game on that list that was the most painful? It was 2015 for me. 2018 was more tolerable to take. Pretty much knew the Flyers were at a disadvantage going into it in the trenches.

2015 was painful more ways than one... terrible call by the refs on a forward progress was one but then ML playing uncharacteristic and also fumbling a snap going in for another score. All around bad game for the flyers. Definitely had their chances to make that call by the ref not matter.

 

[CJK84]

As a MAC fan I want Coldwater to win.

But I think the Cavs will struggle to stop K's highly punishing ground game - the Hornets will probably be at least as physical up front as Marion was against Coldwater in wk 10.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I see Kirtland winning this one 21-10.

Good luck Cavs - prove me wrong!!

 

[Bball216]

I have not seen the O Line for ML - but I find it hard to believe is better or as good as Kirtland's. That is not by no means a dig on ML, but more a compliment to Kirtland. These kids have really got it clicking. They are big, strong and remarkably agile. If ML had sucess I feel the Hornets will as well. It's going to be a physical chess match.

 

[StateChampion2012]

 

[rjewards]

Coldwater balanced attack for the win

 

[Kirtland4580]

Do you have a game on that list that was the most painful? It was 2015 for me. 2018 was more tolerable to take. Pretty much knew the Flyers were at a disadvantage going into it in the trenches.

Probably 2021 or 2022 for different reasons. That 2013 Cavs senior class (2012 season) deserved at least one title after finishing with 3 runners-up.

2014 hurt quite a bit too as the Hornets put up over 30 points & still lost. I think that’s the only time that’s happened under LaVerde.

2017 running clock hurt the team’s identity for all of a few minutes, but sparked their eventual 55-game win streak.

2021, the Hornets got outplayed in the turnover battle & did not win at the line of scrimmage for the first time since ‘17, leading to their win streak being snapped.

And 2022, it hurt to have the wind play as big of a role as it did in deciding field position between two gladiators. Take away the errant pass/pick-6 that essentially decided the game, and ML still wins 7-6, but that one hurt for sure.

 

[Raylan_Givens]

I have not seen the O Line for ML - but I find it hard to believe is better or as good as Kirtland's. That is not by no means a dig on ML, but more a compliment to Kirtland. These kids have really got it clicking. They are big, strong and remarkably agile. If ML had sucess I feel the Hornets will as well. It's going to be a physical chess match.

Kirtland is rolling right now. Tiger is in an elite class this time of year.

That said, I’d take MSML straight up vs the Hornets this year. They would be able to match the physicality and still challenge the back end.

Frankly, that game would be football nirvana, but this one’s nothing to sneeze at either.

 

[Bball216]

Kirtland is rolling right now. Tiger is in an elite class this time of year.

That said, I’d take MSML straight up vs the Hornets this year. They would be able to match the physicality and still challenge the back end.

Frankly, that game would be football nirvana, but this one’s nothing to sneeze at either.

Some of the Hornet players I have spoke to admitted that ML is very good this year. There is a lot of mutual respect between the two programs - that being said Kirtland would love to play Local this year. I'm sure ML feels the same way. Championship programs always want to challenge themselves and don't shy away from elite competition. That would be a must see game this year. Those two teams would play in a parking lot of they could.

 

[TriangleMan]

Those two teams would play in a parking lot of they could.

Maybe they could play in the empty shell of a waterpark just down the street.

 

[Quest4Gold]

Coldwater will be able to say that their only two losses were to undefeated state champions. Don't know how many times this has happened in other years.

 

[YTOWN]

Coldwater will be able to say that their only two losses were to undefeated state champions. Don't know how many times this has happened in other years.

It may have happened a few other times but off the top of my head 1999 Girard comes to mind. The Indians finished 10-2. They lost to Poland in the regular season and Sandusky Perkins in the playoffs. Poland and Perkins both finished 15-0 and won the D3 and D4 state championships respectively. Poland was the 1st team in Ohio football history to finish 15-0.

 

[D4fan]

I’m really looking forward to seeing how this one goes. Both teams have been dominant on their playoff runs. It’s two unstoppable objects colliding with one another.

With the Hornets, their initial concern to start the season was replacing a bunch of starters on defense. Case in point…allowing 34 points to Dalton in Week 1. As the season has progressed, the Hornets really hit their stride defensively around Week 7. Since then, the starting D has allowed only a couple of scores. What also helps is that Kirtland had dealt with the injury bug after the Week 3 triple OT game vs. Perry. Some key injuries were suffered in the weeks that followed, but the Hornets are now completely healthy based on what I can surmise.

That said, the Hornets D hasn’t faced a potent offensive attack like Coldwater’s since facing Perry in a torrential downpour that could have in all likelihood been a 43-42 type of game rather than 22-21 had it not rained cats & dogs. The Cavs have put up 50+ points in a bunch of games this year & have shown the ability to rack up points against quality teams like Minster, Clinton-Massie, Anna, etc. to name a few. Marion Local is as much of a machine as ever this year, so I look past that 0 point outing. From what I can see, they have little to no weaknesses on offense. Their QB makes smart, accurate decisions with a rocket arm, their RBs are strong like bulls, their WRs run great routes & find ways to catch the ball even when it’s a bit off target, and their OL has quick jumps & get a really strong push off the line without missing many blocks.

As for Kirtland’s offense, to nobody’s surprise, they want to run the ball & run it often. It’s not possible for them to do without their offensive line. Last season, the o-line was the team’s biggest question mark. This year, it’s their biggest strength, as they can roll 7 or 8 deep. If I’m not mistaken, I thought I read somewhere that 30+ different Hornets have carried the ball at least once this year.

Lastly, looking at Coldwater’s defense, they look fast & they look mean. Like the Hornets, they swarm to the ball & they gang tackle very effectively. Their linebackers look fantastic at keying in on reads & executing their assignments. And it looked like their d-line got a really good run & pass rush against Bluffton from what I saw.

All in all, both teams are stout on each side of the ball. Both teams play clean fundamental football. Both teams have been here before, holding well-established traditions. Both teams are playing with an incredible sense of purpose this season. And both teams have numerous reasons to win this game, but only one can come out victorious. Expecting a great battle on Saturday! This has the makings of a classic in another chapter of Kirtland vs. the MAC.

I seldom guess at an outcome for a game I believe will be close when I don't truly know one opponent. So I will refrain from guessing at this one. However, it's kind of interesting to me you freely dismiss the 0 points Coldwater put up vs Marion. That 0 points is exactly why if I had to pick a winner in this one I would lean towards Kirtland. That said, I would pick ML considerably as the favorite between the three schools. That's mostly because this is IMO clearly the best ML team ever, by a significant margin.

It's not that I don't know anything about Kirtland, I just don't watch them more than the one time per year in the state finals.

 

[Kirtland4580]

I seldom guess at an outcome for a game I believe will be close when I don't truly know one opponent. So I will refrain from guessing at this one. However, it's kind of interesting to me you freely dismiss the 0 points Coldwater put up vs Marion. That 0 points is exactly why if I had to pick a winner in this one I would lean towards Kirtland. That said, I would pick ML considerably as the favorite between the three schools. That's mostly because this is IMO clearly the best ML team ever, by a significant margin.

It's not that I don't know anything about Kirtland, I just don't watch them more than the one time per year in the state finals.

The sentence I bolded is why I view the Marion game the way I do. ML will beat the best small schools by 14+ & never allow more than a score unless their backups are in. It doesn’t negate the fact that Coldwater struggled to put up points against the Flyers. But I make the argument of what small school WOULDN’T struggle to put up points against them? Looking past it was the wrong choice of words on my part, it’s just a point to show how much of a buzzsaw Marion Local is, especially this season. I agree that the Hornets, just like other Ohio small schools, would be a decent-sized underdog against them this season. I give props to Minster for playing close with them in multiple games this season. The fact Coldwater was able to fend off Minster & win by 3 shows the talent & skill they have to win a state title. I’d bet a rematch between the Flyers & Cavs is a bit closer the second time around, but we’ll never know…

 

[State2013-1]

The sentence I bolded is why I view the Marion game the way I do. ML will beat the best small schools by 14+ & never allow more than a score unless their backups are in. It doesn’t negate the fact that Coldwater struggled to put up points against the Flyers. But I make the argument of what small school WOULDN’T struggle to put up points against them? Looking past it was the wrong choice of words on my part, it’s just a point to show how much of a buzzsaw Marion Local is, especially this season. I agree that the Hornets, just like other Ohio small schools, would be a decent-sized underdog against them this season. I give props to Minster for playing close with them in multiple games this season. The fact Coldwater was able to fend off Minster & win by 3 shows the talent & skill they have to win a state title. I’d bet a rematch between the Flyers & Cavs is a bit closer the second time around, but we’ll never know…

Goodwin's favorite phrasing to use is he "looks at matchups." I think Coldwater matched up better with Minster than ML did at least at the start. I think if ML and Minster played a 3rd time Goodwin would play it different. ML tried a lot of edge plays to take advantage of speed at the QB and WR spots. However Minster was also really fast and not giving the edge. Coldwater used their power run game to put up some points on Minster. Once Goodwin realized Minster really struggled with the power run game in the middle of the 3rd, he started running our big back and Minster couldn't tackle him.

This is what worries me about this game as a MAC fan. Coldwater struggled to contain MLs run offense which made it really easy to pass as well. Can they clamp down against Kirtland whos line is bigger and also quick? I'm not sure. Granted ML runs more formations and play variations compared to Kirtland. ML always uses a 3-5 variation against Kirtland. I could see Coldwater employing a 4-4 for the occasion.