Dig at Moeller?

D

Doublehelix

Well-known member
Thoughts on this from Elder? Is this a dig?

From Elder's press release:

The Ohio High School Athletic Association (OHSAA) is implementing expanded divisions across the state to change the way end-of-season tournaments are structured for high school sports. The move was made to account for the large enrollment disparities within divisions and to address allegations that private schools are recruiting student-athletes.
Divisions will expand based on the number of high schools sponsoring that sport within Ohio. A competitive balance formula – which was first introduced in 2014 – is then applied to each school’s enrollment numbers to combat the alleged recruiting and unfair advantage private schools have in state tournaments. The formula is intended to identify students outside the typical geographic “boundary” of a school as they could be considered “recruits.”

The 64 schools with the largest adjusted enrollment will be placed in Division I and the next 64 schools will be placed in Division II. The remaining schools will be dispersed evenly among the remaining number of divisions.

While Elder has been attracting a more geographically diverse student body in recent years, our roots on the westside of Cincinnati remain strong as ever. We consistently compete at an elite level in sports and have done so for a century despite most of our students coming from our own backyard.

While our track record of winning Division I state titles speaks for itself, the new formulas being applied by OHSAA view us as underdogs. Elder adheres to strict rules regarding the recruitment of prospective student-athletes, making the net we cast for sports tryouts nowhere near as large as some local schools. However, the quality of our athletic programs and the success of our athletes have made Elder a contender for Division I state championships year after year.

Applying the OHSAA Formula to Elder Sports
Each student on the roster of a given sport is included in a competitive balance calculation, which is then added to Ohio’s Education Management Information System data to produce a final, adjusted enrollment count for the school. Competitive balance numbers are re-calculated each year and have designated the following placements for Elder’s end-of-season tournaments for the upcoming school year:
  • Football: Division I
  • Basketball: Division II
  • Soccer: Division II
  • Baseball: TBD (6/10/2024)
On May 16, 2024 – after a referendum vote by member schools – OHSAA announced passage of Issue 1B, which will allow schools to request to move up to Division I on a sport-by-sport basis for the upcoming season in that sport. For the 2024-2025 school year, Elder has requested to remain Division I in all sports, pending approval by the OHSAA. This decision was made after a thorough review of all sports programs and our steadily rising enrollment numbers, which may have us assigned back in Division I in just a couple of years. For the upcoming school year, Elder weighed this decision as a school versus considering placements on a sport-by-sport basis.

More on OHSAA Division Placements & Elder Athletics
These changes made at the state level only apply to end-of-season tournament placements. No matter the division placement, Elder will continue to compete at the highest level of high school sports. We will maintain our competitive schedules in the Greater Catholic League – South and attract and seek competition from other elite high school sports programs around the country.

While these formulas signal that young athletes may compete with fewer kids when striving to make a sports team at Elder, our Panther prowess is none the wiser, nor is our win/loss record. Our athletes will continue to thrive and be seen by coaches at the next level.

Our enrollment numbers are the highest they’ve been in years as we continue to attract students from around Greater Cincinnati. As we remain the dominant choice for high school among westside elementary school students, our sports teams will continue to reflect the best that the westside has to offer, and we are so proud of that distinction. Underdogs we are not!
 
 
This isn’t Elder accusing anyone of recruiting, it’s Trey trying to stir up drama.
 
Quotes:

"The move was made to account for the large enrollment disparities within divisions and to address allegations that private schools are recruiting student-athletes." - did the OHSAA ever say part of this was to stem illegal recruiting? If they OHSAA never mentioned this, it's a dig.

"The formula is intended to identify students outside the typical geographic “boundary” of a school as they could be considered “recruits.” - Again, schools are allowed to recruit outside their boundaries, did the OHSAA ever say this?

"While our track record of winning Division I state titles speaks for itself, the new formulas being applied by OHSAA view us as underdogs." - LOL, what? You just said it was based on enrollment cut-offs.

"Elder adheres to strict rules regarding the recruitment of prospective student-athletes, making the net we cast for sports tryouts nowhere near as large as some local schools." - sure sounds like a dig to me. And again, you're allowed to go outside your boundaries to recruit students. Elder can certainly cast a wide net within the current rules. This is the oddest comment of them all.

"While these formulas signal that young athletes may compete with fewer kids when striving to make a sports team at Elder, our Panther prowess is none the wiser, nor is our win/loss record." - I've read this 25 times and I still not quite sure what it means. I guess it means they're better than others for doing it this way?

"our sports teams will continue to reflect the best that the westside has to offer" - just as I've said for 10 years.

Again, I would love to hear the reactions of local and state admins and ADs. I think it would be very interesting to hear their perspective on these statements. Can one school really be looking at all of these rules that much different than everyone else?
 
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I also think they are moving the goalposts here.

They are saying - "we're not going to cast a wider net to go out and illegally recruit", which makes all kinds of sense. Most would agree here.

Vs. what I've said all along - "cast a wider net for students (which is perfectly legal) and the athletics take care of themselves" - make diversity a strategy and watch the many things that improve.

There's a difference there that they don't want to seem to acknowledge. And, imo, it's for the reasons I've stated for 10 years.

Was this letter really to me? If so, that's pretty neat! Or maybe it's to @Omar and he just fails to realize it.
 
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FourthAndOne said:
Nah, X doesn't have to recruit. With X it is simply a numbers game. They average around 400+ students per grade and also have the highest tuition cost. Parents either sends their kids to X or they don't.
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Moeller doesn’t have to recruit either- largest freshman class in history of school with a long waitlist. Regional finals appearances this year in all 3 of the “major” sports with success in many others as well. Strong traditions and alumni base for a “young” school- we good
 
Kballer said:
Moeller doesn’t have to recruit either- largest freshman class in history of school with a long waitlist. Regional finals appearances this year in all 3 of the “major” sports with success in many others as well. Strong traditions and alumni base for a “young” school- we good
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Well they do and their Head Football Coach a couple years ago got busted for it so why should we think any different. Moeller recruits and offers substantial scholarships to certain athletes. Moeller even has a couple guys who go out and scout players for their High School basketball team.

It is wrong, "Nope." A number of these private schools in the Cincinnati/Dayton area are recruiting and offering scholarships to athletes.
 
FourthAndOne said:
Well they do and their Head Football Coach a couple years ago got busted for it so why should we think any different. Moeller recruits and offers substantial scholarships to certain athletes. Moeller even has a couple guys who go out and scout players for their High School basketball team.

It is wrong, "Nope." A number of these private schools in the Cincinnati/Dayton area are recruiting and offering scholarships to athletes.
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This is such a tired argument - report them then since you KNOW all about it.
 
Reading and Maineville are not in Elder's "back yard". No issues as the cost of private catholic education is such that parents should be able to choose whatever school they see fit for their son.
 
FourthAndOne said:
Nah, X doesn't have to recruit. With X it is simply a numbers game. They average around 400+ students per grade and also have the highest tuition cost. Parents either sends their kids to X or they don't.
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BS. Even Iggy and Ed's recruit. You can have 400 kids but you better make sure your coaches have gone to cyo games and held clinics if you want someone to pay that tuition cost. So yeah they recruit but it's what keeps the lights on when your local municipality isn't paying the bills. St Ed's will likely have a say in this before you can crown X.
 
EastsideCat said:
BS. Even Iggy and Ed's recruit. You can have 400 kids but you better make sure your coaches have gone to cyo games and held clinics if you want someone to pay that tuition cost. So yeah they recruit but it's what keeps the lights on when your local municipality isn't paying the bills. St Ed's will likely have a say in this before you can crown X.
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You don't know Specht and the Admin at StX. They don't recruit anyone. Now if a player shows up at the school for shadow day or Open house they might get a little bit of extra attention but StX doesn't just doesn't recruit, it is not in the culture of their athletics program or school. I have had multiple boys go to the school and have two nephews their now. Nothing has changed with maybe the exception the Donors are making huge contributions and the athletic facilities are really nice. The football locker room is insane
 
FourthAndOne said:
You don't know Specht and the Admin at StX. They don't recruit anyone. Now if a player shows up at the school for shadow day or Open house they might get a little bit of extra attention but StX doesn't just doesn't recruit, it is not in the culture of their athletics program or school. I have had multiple boys go to the school and have two nephews their now. Nothing has changed with maybe the exception the Donors are making huge contributions and the athletic facilities are really nice. The football locker room is insane
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One of mine was recruited by the X coaches in 2 sports- first was the camp invites, then followed up by a parent/coach from our grade school reaching out, saying how interested they were in our son, then direct communication with the coach to us, a LOT of attention on shadow day, $ offered, etc. You can call it what you want, but the intent was definitely clear. Went through it with our daughter at a different school- X was definitely playing the game even if they seem more subtle.
 
Kballer said:
One of mine was recruited by the X coaches in 2 sports- first was the camp invites, then followed up by a parent/coach from our grade school reaching out, saying how interested they were in our son, then direct communication with the coach to us, a LOT of attention on shadow day, $ offered, etc. You can call it what you want, but the intent was definitely clear. Went through it with our daughter at a different school- X was definitely playing the game even if they seem more subtle.
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There is zero percent chance Specht offered your kid money or contacted him directly and he would fire any of his assistant coaches for doing so.
 
Kballer said:
One of mine was recruited by the X coaches in 2 sports- first was the camp invites, then followed up by a parent/coach from our grade school reaching out, saying how interested they were in our son, then direct communication with the coach to us, a LOT of attention on shadow day, $ offered, etc. You can call it what you want, but the intent was definitely clear. Went through it with our daughter at a different school- X was definitely playing the game even if they seem more subtle.
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Here is the other thing, if StX recruited and offered scholarships associated with money their teams would be stacked every year. StX has more money than Moeller, Elder, and Lasalle combined. They would also have a lot more than four State Titles.
 
FourthAndOne said:
Here is the other thing, if StX recruited and offered scholarships associated with money their teams would be stacked every year. StX has more money than Moeller, Elder, and Lasalle combined. They would also have a lot more than four State Titles.
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This sounds like the usual St. X claim: "We do things the right way." Next, you'll probably say St. X doesn’t offer lower-level classes. I've heard similar stories from families like KBaller throughout the years, and while St. X might not directly award scholarships, it's likely doing so through its generous Tuition Assistance program. I know some families, who received no assistance from Elder, found St. X cheaper due to St X's program, even without their son playing sports. My guess is that athletic students likely receive even more generous "aid".

Using state championships as a defense is weak. All the GCL schools and even public schools, like Colerain & their busing system back in the day, are all playing by these rules. At the end of the day, football is just that competitive in R4 & in Ohio.

I have no problem with recruiting or scholarships, aid or however the school wants to mask it. Please don’t insult our intelligence by claiming St. X doesn’t participate in these practices.
 
How are we still talking about recruiting in 2024?

Most schools are going after kids from such a wide net anyway, what does it matter? St X gets kids from all over the place, athlete or not. So you can woo the ACT stud from Dayton but not the kid who wants to play football? It makes no sense to separate the two, especially when it starts as a simple student recruitment.

If you cast a wide net, you get a wide net back. That's why you do it.
 
Wow! Still Omar the Dbag and Trey shiiit show on here! Omar admittedly doesn't like women and Trey has a Hard On for Coach Goedde
 
FourthAndOne said:
Here is the other thing, if StX recruited and offered scholarships associated with money their teams would be stacked every year. StX has more money than Moeller, Elder, and Lasalle combined. They would also have a lot more than four State Titles.
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They could have more than 4 if they could solve the Cleveland riddle.
 
The important thing to remember is Trey is a b**ch with an axe to grind vs Elder and he’s trying to stir up the other GCL fanbases to attack Elder.
 
Vincent for President said:
This sounds like the usual St. X claim: "We do things the right way." Next, you'll probably say St. X doesn’t offer lower-level classes. I've heard similar stories from families like KBaller throughout the years, and while St. X might not directly award scholarships, it's likely doing so through its generous Tuition Assistance program. I know some families, who received no assistance from Elder, found St. X cheaper due to St X's program, even without their son playing sports. My guess is that athletic students likely receive even more generous "aid".

Using state championships as a defense is weak. All the GCL schools and even public schools, like Colerain & their busing system back in the day, are all playing by these rules. At the end of the day, football is just that competitive in R4 & in Ohio.

I have no problem with recruiting or scholarships, aid or however the school wants to mask it. Please don’t insult our intelligence by claiming St. X doesn’t participate in these practices.
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Saying “we do things the right way” isn’t an automatic implication other schools do things the “wrong way.”
 
Omar said:
The important thing to remember is Trey is a b**ch with an axe to grind vs Elder and he’s trying to stir up the other GCL fanbases to attack Elder.
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What are you even talking about? I literally started this thread 2 months ago and haven't said a bad word about Elder since then.

In addition, the other GCL schools don't care about Elder as much as Elder homers think they care about Elder. They also realize they are not a threat anymore, even though the Elder fans won't admit it. This thinking is nothing but the Elder inferiority complex in full effect. But thanks for wasting everyone's time.

Look around, X and Moe posters are making fun of Elder's lack of talent too. Why? Because it's that obvious. You might want to focus on not getting your teeth kicked in by Oak Hills this week, because that would be somethin.
 
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Omar said:
Saying “we do things the right way” isn’t an automatic implication other schools do things the “wrong way.”
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Wow, for all the garbage you have dumped on Moeller over the years, you come on their page and bring up 'doing things the right way". Ever look in the mirror.
 
TraditionNeverGraduates said:
Wow, for all the garbage you have dumped on Moeller over the years, you come on their page and bring up 'doing things the right way". Ever look in the mirror.
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How? I said a school saying they do things “the right way” isn’t an implication of guilt for other schools.

That’s like thinking someone is calling you a junkie when they say they “live a clean life.”
 
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