D-1 Region 4

It’s interesting how many people said Moeller was a one trick pony with Marshall and after he left they would struggle- yet the consensus (albeit pre season) is they are the team to beat
 
cincifbfan said:
Completely disagree. There were countless years where #10 was a team that would win playoff games in other regions. That definitely isn't the case anymore.
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In D1R4?

I think over the last 30 something years, there have only been 5 programs that have won the region.

Elder
Moeller
X
Colerain
Centerville maybe?
 
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Doublehelix said:
In D1R4?

I think over the last 30 something years, there have only been 5 programs that have won the region.

Elder
Moeller
X
Colerain
Centerville maybe?
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I didn't say who won the region. I said overall competitiveness in top 10. There were countless years where the #9 or #10 team who missed playoffs would have advanced to region semi or even region final in the other regions (unless they played Ed's in playoffs). Region 4 used to be an absolute meat grinder. It just isn't anymore outside the top 4 teams.
 
cincifbfan said:
I didn't say who won the region. I said overall competitiveness in top 10. There were countless years where the #9 or #10 team who missed playoffs would have advanced to region semi or even region final in the other regions (unless they played Ed's in playoffs). Region 4 used to be an absolute meat grinder. It just isn't anymore outside the top 4 teams.
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You are arguing with a dude who groups Oak Hills next to Elder, Mason, and WW. This wont end well.
 
cincifbfan said:
So where did this idea of freshmen starting on OL come from?
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Maybe from those that didn’t watch the games last year and know the roster. An example, former NBA player, Danny Fortson, has a son who came out for the first time last year and began to get PT during the middle to end of the season. He was 6’4 265 last year. I haven’t seen the roster yet, but, if he is back with a year of experience and growth under his belt, watch out. JT White, OL, was first team All GMC and returns. No freshman should be playing unless they are all-world.
 
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ElDuderino said:
You are arguing with a dude who groups Oak Hills next to Elder, Mason, and WW. This wont end well.
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Oak Hills gave Elder all it could handle last year in the playoffs. Elder is better, but the gap is closing and OH has quality starters returning this year. Elder is not in the top tier this year, but they will compete.

And no one is arguing. I could certainly see OH falling flat on their face, but if any year is their year to make some noise, it's this year.
 
mostchilly said:
Maybe from those that didn’t watch the games last year and know the roster. An example, former NBA player, Danny Fortson, has a son who came out for the first time last year and began to get PT during the middle to end of the season. He was 6’5 265 last year. I haven’t seen the roster yet, but, if he is back with a year of experience and growth under his belt, watch out. JT White, OL, was first team All GMC and returns. No freshman should be playing unless they are all-world.
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I don't freaking get it at all. Here's their roster from last year: https://gmcsports.com/fbTeamRoster.aspx?sat=5&schoolid=9&year=2023

Toran, Eberhardt, and Simpson are the starters lost. White is apparently 300+ now and was a first teamer as you said. But look at all the other guys who will be at least a junior this year with a good head start on size. Seems to me there's a good pool of linemen already in the fold.
 
oxat622 said:
I don't freaking get it at all. Here's their roster from last year: https://gmcsports.com/fbTeamRoster.aspx?sat=5&schoolid=9&year=2023

Toran, Eberhardt, and Simpson are the starters lost. White is apparently 300+ now and was a first teamer as you said. But look at all the other guys who will be at least a junior this year with a good head start on size. Seems to me there's a good pool of linemen already in the fold.
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I think the O line will be just fine. A lot of guys played last year.
 
Doublehelix said:
Oak Hills gave Elder all it could handle last year in the playoffs. Elder is better, but the gap is closing and OH has quality starters returning this year. Elder is not in the top tier this year, but they will compete.

And no one is arguing. I could certainly see OH falling flat on their face, but if any year is their year to make some noise, it's this year.
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"all they can handle" is a pretty weird way to describe a team that won by 2 TDs, outgained opponent by more than 100 yds, and had 22 first downs to the other team's 13.


Weird
 
ElDuderino said:
"all they can handle" is a pretty weird way to describe a team that won by 2 TDs, outgained opponent by more than 100 yds, and had 22 first downs to the other team's 13.


Weird
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It was 21-14 in the 3rd and entering the 4th and OH had the ball multiple times during that span. For anyone that watched it, it could have gone either way until Elder scored in the 4th to put it away. Why are you making this a big deal?

I'm not saying OH is better, I'm saying the talent gap will be lessened the next couple of years and an upset is possible.
 
ArnoldRothstien said:
Elders freshman last 2 years have been very bad. They will have a few years down coming. Could get nipped by a mid tier team in week 11 for sure
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For sure.

Not saying any of these teams are better than Elder, but with a couple years of Elder being down, it could happen from one of these teams where in most years its a pipedream.
 
ArnoldRothstien said:
Elders freshman last 2 years have been very bad. They will have a few years down coming. Could get nipped by a mid tier team in week 11 for sure
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Elder's freshman team the last 2 years they did not play to win at all. I think there were some questionable personnel decisions alongside the everyone plays/rotates philosophy. My point is I would not gauge those classes on their freshman results. Elder has plenty of talent in all grades to be competitive and stay relevant in region 4. Their numbers are very high also. On varsity, Elder should have a strong defense. The offense will be the big question mark. They have 2 good arms, athletic QBs competing for the starting job. They have a D1 TE commit. They have a couple quick, athletic backs, but no elite offensive weapons. It could be a challenge for Elder offensively, but Ramsey will put together what he can. Any other school would struggle, but Elder has the best offensive coach in the city.

Elder will NOT have a few down years coming.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
Elder's freshman team the last 2 years they did not play to win at all. I think there were some questionable personnel decisions alongside the everyone plays/rotates philosophy. My point is I would not gauge those classes on their freshman results. Elder has plenty of talent in all grades to be competitive and stay relevant in region 4. Their numbers are very high also. On varsity, Elder should have a strong defense. The offense will be the big question mark. They have 2 good arms, athletic QBs competing for the starting job. They have a D1 TE commit. They have a couple quick, athletic backs, but no elite offensive weapons. It could be a challenge for Elder offensively, but Ramsey will put together what he can. Any other school would struggle, but Elder has the best offensive coach in the city.

Elder will NOT have a few down years coming.
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If we're being honest, Elder was probably in the same tier as OH last year. And that played out in a very competitive game with them in the playoffs. Without Brass, Elder was likely a below .500 team. I find it very hard to believe that Elder's squad this year will be better than what they had last year. But who knows, those kids battle.

Again, that's still likely enough to beat a team like Oak Hills, but they're more similar to OH than they are to Eds, X or Moe. You can't really debate that.
 
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Doublehelix said:
If we're being honest, Elder was probably in the same tier as OH last year. And that played out in a very competitive game with them in the playoffs. Without Brass, Elder was likely a below .500 team. I find it very hard to believe that Elder's squad this year will be better than what they had last year. But who knows, those kids battle.

Again, that's still likely enough to beat a team like Oak Hills, but they're more similar to OH than they are to Eds, X or Moe. You can't really debate that.
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That's not true. They had a decent team last year and should be about as good as last year. Let's talk when they actually beat a GCL school.
 
Doublehelix said:
If we're being honest, Elder was probably in the same tier as OH last year. And that played out in a very competitive game with them in the playoffs. Without Brass, Elder was likely a below .500 team. I find it very hard to believe that Elder's squad this year will be better than what they had last year. But who knows, those kids battle.

Again, that's still likely enough to beat a team like Oak Hills, but they're more similar to OH than they are to Eds, X or Moe. You can't really debate that.
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While I like the team that Oak Hills is going to have this year, Elder will still definitely be better than them.
 
cincifbfan said:
Region 4 seems not nearly as impressive as it usually does from top to bottom. The top 4 teams is still the toughest in the state. But to think mediocre squads like Hamilton, Oak Hills, and Mason could be top 10 is strange to think about.
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Once they sent the Dayton teams into a different region, it hasn’t been the same. Add Centerville, Wayne, Springfield, and, in the past, Northmont, and the region would be as scary as its reputation. Additionally, Lakota West became the new GMC power with Bolden, but they aren’t nearly what Colerain was when they were humming. Finally, there is a state demographic shift. The Columbus-area schools are the ones booming. Cincinnati schools are stagnant or declining in enrollment. You can go to 247 and see that there is simply less recruited talent in the area. It used to be that even the bad GMC teams had 1-2 guys going FBS, and the top GMC and all the GCL-S schools would have 7-10 with up to like 50 guys in the area going D1. That number is in the 20s now.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
That's not true. They had a decent team last year and should be about as good as last year. Let's talk when they actually beat a GCL school.
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The ceiling for Oak Hills and Elder is likely the same. Neither are getting past week 12, and that puts them in the same tier.

Elder is closer to OH than they are to Moe, X, Princeton or LW.
 
JBaller said:
Once they sent the Dayton teams into a different region, it hasn’t been the same. Add Centerville, Wayne, Springfield, and, in the past, Northmont, and the region would be as scary as its reputation. Additionally, Lakota West became the new GMC power with Bolden, but they aren’t nearly what Colerain was when they were humming. Finally, there is a state demographic shift. The Columbus-area schools are the ones booming. Cincinnati schools are stagnant or declining in enrollment. You can go to 247 and see that there is simply less recruited talent in the area. It used to be that even the bad GMC teams had 1-2 guys going FBS, and the top GMC and all the GCL-S schools would have 7-10 with up to like 50 guys in the area going D1. That number is in the 20s now.
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I agree with most of this.

However, not all Cincy schools are stagnant or declining. CPS schools have been increasing over the years. An easy example is looking at Aiken... Who moved from D5 to D2 in just a few years.

I completely disagree that there is less talent in the area. Your numbers just aren't accurate as to recruitment. The bad GMC schools didn't have 1-2 guys going FBS. That's absurd. And to say top GMC and all GCL-S schools would have 7-10 going D-1, come on. And I'm willing to bet that there are more than 20 guys in Cincy going D-1. The talent in Cincy is higher now than in the past, it's just accumulated in few select schools that do a good job of recruiting those D-1 guys to play for them. Such is the reality now in Open Enrollment and a spineless OHSAA.
 
Doublehelix said:
The ceiling for Oak Hills and Elder is likely the same. Neither are getting past week 12, and that puts them in the same tier.

Elder is closer to OH than they are to Moe, X, Princeton or LW.
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You have no idea what you're talking about first of all. What exactly went into your decision making to say Elder's ceiling is week 12 of the playoffs?

You know Oak Hills lost to Lakota West 59-7 last year right? The score was 45-0 at the end of the first half.
You know it took St. Ed's a last second field goal and very lucky turn of events the last minute to beat Elder 35-34?
You know Elder was beating Lakota West at halftime 14-10 before losing 24-14 in the playoffs committing 2 turnovers inside the 20.

So, a team that was beating Lakota West at halftime 14-10 and a team that losing to Lakota West 45-0 at halftime are somehow in the same tier?

You are clueless more and more everyday.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
You have no idea what you're talking about first of all. What exactly went into your decision making to say Elder's ceiling is week 12 of the playoffs?

You know Oak Hills lost to Lakota West 59-7 last year right? The score was 45-0 at the end of the first half.
You know it took St. Ed's a last second field goal and very lucky turn of events the last minute to beat Elder 35-34?
You know Elder was beating Lakota West at halftime 14-10 before losing 24-14 in the playoffs committing 2 turnovers inside the 20.

So, a team that was beating Lakota West at halftime 14-10 and a team that losing to Lakota West 45-0 at halftime are somehow in the same tier?

You are clueless more and more everyday.
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Because they're not beating X, Moe, LW or Princeton, who would likely be their second round opponent. Pretty easy decision making.

How is anything I said considered clueless? Literally everyone in the city has those 4 teams up top and everyone else in the next tier. What exactly is triggering you here? Elder isn't with those teams this year, even Elder people are saying it.

You put all of those comparable games there, but fail to admit that the Elder/OH games was very competitive last year. Very competitive. Just be real.
 
Doublehelix said:
Because they're not beating X, Moe, LW or Princeton, who would likely be their second round opponent. Pretty easy decision making.

How is anything I said considered clueless? Literally everyone int he city has those 4 teams up top and everyone else in the next tier. What exactly is triggering you here?

You put all of those comparable games there, but fail to admit that the Elder/OH games was very competitive last year. Very competitive. Just be real.
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Elder can beat any of those 4 teams. Oak Hills will lose to LW again by how many Bolden feels like beating them by that night.
 
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