Cleveland Guardians

OldSoulon said:
Is he a Gold Glove infielder that can hit 15-20 homers and drive in 60-70 runs per year?
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No idea. I hadn't heard of him before today. That being said, Gimenez offense has gone downhill since 2022.

As long as Dolan owns this team they'll always be making trades like this in hopes of catching the next star on the uprise.
 
These arguments about trying to find the next star don't math on this one. Gimenez is a year younger, a perennial gold glover, and under team control til 2029. This is a salary dump period.

Allegedly most teams are dumping salary. Funny, it's almost like the economy is hot trash, as my day job confirms
 
Wildcat97 said:
These arguments about trying to find the next star don't math on this one. Gimenez is a year younger, a perennial gold glover, and under team control til 2029. This is a salary dump period.

Allegedly most teams are dumping salary. Funny, it's almost like the economy is hot trash, as my day job confirms
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The economy for multi-millionaires and billionaires is doing just fine. It's the only way that Cleveland can be competitive against the teams with billion dollar budgets when they themselves are unwilling to make a concerted effort to win a pennant. Pile up the prospects and, when they get good, trade them away for more prospects. Wash, rinse, repeat.
 
I think this is the answer to the lost revenue of the cable/streaming deal. What it doesn’t excuse is the Dolan cheapness and I have no idea what they are doing with Blitzer’s money.

That being said, I don’t have a problem with them getting rid of the Gimenez contract. Love the glove, but he’s not worth the money.

The Fry injury has to be figuring into the deal for Horwitz, because Manzardo was the acquisition to replace Naylor.

I really hate to lose Thomas and go back to having just one legit outfielder again.
 
tom 48 said:
The economy for multi-millionaires and billionaires is doing just fine. It's the only way that Cleveland can be competitive against the teams with billion dollar budgets when they themselves are unwilling to make a concerted effort to win a pennant. Pile up the prospects and, when they get good, trade them away for more prospects. Wash, rinse, repeat.
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Oh I agree it's great for the upper echelon. More of the same, have a good year, trade the wrong 2ay, have a off y3ar or 2. Rinse repeat. They are terrible owners after they had great attendance
 
cjb5656 said:
I think this is the answer to the lost revenue of the cable/streaming deal. What it doesn’t excuse is the Dolan cheapness and I have no idea what they are doing with Blitzer’s money.

That being said, I don’t have a problem with them getting rid of the Gimenez contract. Love the glove, but he’s not worth the money.

The Fry injury has to be figuring into the deal for Horwitz, because Manzardo was the acquisition to replace Naylor.

I really hate to lose Thomas and go back to having just one legit outfielder again.
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And baseball refuses to institute cap. But they focus on fixing what isn't broken. Figured after they already have my money for 2025. If they regress again, they just won't get my money again, rinse, repeat
 
This looks like a salary dump for a possibly serviceable young major league pitcher and a coin flip on a minor league pitcher.
 
clarkgriswold said:
Horwitz is a highly rated prospect. Only time will tell.
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Horwitz is OLDER than Giminez. This was not a trade for a prospect. This was a financially motivated deal, pure and simple. Subtract 24.5 million (Giminez and soon J. Naylor). Put Bazzana and Horwitz on the right side of the infield, both at MLB minimum (basically 1.5 million total). Bingo - 23 million saved.

Fans should demand refunds on season tickets.

EDIT: I missed the news about the subsequent trade with the Pirates. Just awful.
 
Wildcat97 said:
And baseball refuses to institute cap. But they focus on fixing what isn't broken. Figured after they already have my money for 2025. If they regress again, they just won't get my money again, rinse, repeat
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Exactly. Until idiots like Rob Manfred decide to focus on leveling the financial playing field rather than on BS like the golden bat rule, you can expect more of this from small market teams. Combine that idiocy with Dolan's frugality and you'll see more trades like this.
 
Pluto: follow the money:

Gimenez has five years and $96 million left on that 2023 deal. The Guardians made Oregon State second baseman Travis Bazzana the No. 1 overall pick in the 2024 draft.

Add in prospects Martinez and Brito – both close to MLB ready.

The trade happened at baseball’s winter meetings. The Guardians must have been talking to a lot of teams about a Gimenez deal. Given the return from the Blue Jays, the contract of Gimenez must have scared off other teams.

Gimenez will be paid $10.5 million in 2025. Then it rises to $15.5 million followed by three years in a row of exactly $23.5 million.

For that kind of money, most teams also want a second baseman who can deliver more at the plate than Gimenez. The Guardians also must have believed that Gimenez was not likely to dramatically improve as a hitter. His trade value would continue to decline as his salary rose year after year.
 
I really liked Giminez and his defense was obvioulsy outstanding, but his hitting fell off a bit and maybe that scared management a bit? So they spin him to Toronto for 2 guys (1 of which is a young OF prospect). Then they spin the other guy to Pittsburgh for a guy who goes right into their rotation and 2 other pitching prospects. I know we hate our team being "fiscally responsible", but that's who we are. We have several guys who can step into the 2B position until Bazanna is ready.
 
cjb5656 said:
I think this is the answer to the lost revenue of the cable/streaming deal. What it doesn’t excuse is the Dolan cheapness and I have no idea what they are doing with Blitzer’s money.

That being said, I don’t have a problem with them getting rid of the Gimenez contract. Love the glove, but he’s not worth the money.

The Fry injury has to be figuring into the deal for Horwitz, because Manzardo was the acquisition to replace Naylor.

I really hate to lose Thomas and go back to having just one legit outfielder again.
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I'm not totally convinced Kwan's here to stay, so that one outfielder might become 'none' pretty quickly. There's a rumble in the force with the Guardians this offseason and I feel like Naylor and maybe some other big names might be gone, yet, before the start of spring training 2025.

Something was wrong with J. Naylor in the playoffs. I'm not denying who he is, his 100+ RBIs or what he means to the team on and off the field. Just, something was off with him late in the season and against the Yankees particularly.

Again, like I say a million times on here - I hope I'm wrong.
 
At this juncture, it looks like the Guardians were just looking for the arms and to save money. Gimenez' bat had really dropped off since '22. Bazzana is still a couple of years away by the most optimistic estimates.

Dolan is the guy who bought a Ferrari and fills the tank with regular gas and has the corner mechanic do repairs. If you're going to be an owner of a major league franchise you have to be willing to make an investment in the franchise. The front office isn't going to be able to pull rabbits out of hats forever to keep the team competitive.

I've lost a lot of my interest in MLB in recent years due their unwillingness to even attempt to remedy the franchise funding disparity. I even sent a nasty-gram to Manfred couple of years ago about it. You can see the pull I have.
 
tom 48 said:
Pluto: follow the money:

Gimenez has five years and $96 million left on that 2023 deal. The Guardians made Oregon State second baseman Travis Bazzana the No. 1 overall pick in the 2024 draft.

Add in prospects Martinez and Brito – both close to MLB ready.

The trade happened at baseball’s winter meetings. The Guardians must have been talking to a lot of teams about a Gimenez deal. Given the return from the Blue Jays, the contract of Gimenez must have scared off other teams.

Gimenez will be paid $10.5 million in 2025. Then it rises to $15.5 million followed by three years in a row of exactly $23.5 million.

For that kind of money, most teams also want a second baseman who can deliver more at the plate than Gimenez. The Guardians also must have believed that Gimenez was not likely to dramatically improve as a hitter. His trade value would continue to decline as his salary rose year after year.
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There is no justifying the trade. By the money rational they might as well trade Jose. Whyd they give all that money to a broken Bieber?

I don't want to hear about prospects, that's how you win 60 games. Give me the proven vet in his prime.

They traded away a platinum glove second baseman with 5 years of control for a bunch of no names. You might not get Soto for that but you better bring back proven legitimate major leaguers. Why the hell would you sign Gimenez to that contract in the first place if you never planned to live with it?
 
y2h said:
There is no justifying the trade. By the money rational they might as well trade Jose. Whyd they give all that money to a broken Bieber?

I don't want to hear about prospects, that's how you win 60 games. Give me the proven vet in his prime.

They traded away a platinum glove second baseman with 5 years of control for a bunch of no names. You might not get Soto for that but you better bring back proven legitimate major leaguers. Why the hell would you sign Gimenez to that contract in the first place if you never planned to live with it?
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A reporter who covers the Guardians speculated this morning that the money saved will go to extend either Kwan or Bibee or, with another trade, both. Still indicates the "frugal" aspect of the ownership.
 
tom 48 said:
A reporter who covers the Guardians speculated this morning that the money saved will go to extend either Kwan or Bibee or, with another trade, both. Still indicates the "frugal" aspect of the ownership.
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Since we don’t get to keep everyone and this franchise makes us think either/or all the time, I would much rather use the money to keep Kwan and Bibee instead of Gimenez.
 
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