Cleveland Clinic: Vaccine Mandate was bad idea

 
“Pausing” lol.

They know the next vaccine for the “new” variant will be out soon and they already know they’ll be mandate that instead. “This next Omicron vax really does work and thats good news because of how much worse this new variant is“. The new variant also arrived just in time for our normal flu season. Funny how that worked out.
 
Steel Valley FB said:
“Pausing” lol.

They know the next vaccine for the “new” variant will be out soon and they already know they’ll be mandate that instead. “This next Omicron vax really does work and thats good news because of how much worse this new variant is“. The new variant also arrived just in time for our normal flu season. Funny how that worked out.
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Yeah, the flu numbers will magically be at historic lows again. It’s completely INSANE the way this stuff is going. The Dr that discovered the SouthAfrican Sickness said that while more contagious, the symptoms are about the same as a common cold- maybe less.

Why the manufactured hysteria???
 
People should have the “freedom“ to die if they want. Don’t want the vax? Fine. Don’t go to the hospital when you can’t breathe. There is a vaccine available to help prevent death if you get Covid. You don’t want the vaccine? OK. Don’t force it on people. Vaccine mandates are wrong. Let people risk dying if they want. As many people have said the virus is only deadly to old people and fat people.
 
Mean Machine said:
People should have the “freedom“ to die if they want. Don’t want the vax? Fine. Don’t go to the hospital when you can’t breathe. There is a vaccine available to help prevent death if you get Covid. You don’t want the vaccine? OK. Don’t force it on people. Vaccine mandates are wrong. Let people risk dying if they want. As many people have said the virus is only deadly to old people and fat people.
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A bit dramatic here aren't we? If you are under 60 and healthy your chances of dying from covid are extremely low, probably less then your dying in an auto accident.

Every day people make choices that place them at some level of risk. When the risk is as low as a healthy person under 60 dying from covid it's not worth thinking about. Instead, the Biden administration and many public health departments are willing to tear this nation apart insisting on mandatory vaccination for everyone. It's insane.
 
lotr10 said:
A bit dramatic here aren't we? If you are under 60 and healthy your chances of dying from covid are extremely low, probably less then your dying in an auto accident.

Every day people make choices that place them at some level of risk. When the risk is as low as a healthy person under 60 dying from covid it's not worth thinking about. Instead, the Biden administration and many public health departments are willing to tear this nation apart insisting on mandatory vaccination for everyone. It's insane.
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Ok, but over 780,000 people have died. You fools can say that the numbers are inflated but even if the number is 500,000 that is still a ton of dead people that would otherwise be alive. Just because the pandemic is inconvenient for you and you don’t like sacrificing that doesn’t mean the virus isn’t real.
 
Mean Machine said:
Ok, but over 780,000 people have died. You fools can say that the numbers are inflated but even if the number is 500,000 that is still a ton of dead people that would otherwise be alive. Just because the pandemic is inconvenient for you and you don’t like sacrificing that doesn’t mean the virus isn’t real.
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You have zero idea how many actually would still be alive today. Maybe you could look at their ages and hazard a guess. But still, there are no guarantees as people die everyday from many different causes. I always chuckle when you folks act like you can cheat death.
 
winbypin said:
You have zero idea how many actually would still be alive today. Maybe you could look at their ages and hazard a guess. But still, there are no guarantees as people die everyday from many different causes. I always chuckle when you folks act like you can cheat death.
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If a gigantic, 100 story tall monster invaded your town and was walking down the street toward you would you run away or just stand there and wait to be eaten?
Most people make their best effort to avoid death if at all possible. Covid kills people. We have a vaccine that prevents Covid from killing you. People that want to live make efforts to avoid death. Just because Trump told you to avoid the vaccine does mean that the sane people in this country are following his advice.
 
Mean Machine said:
If a gigantic, 100 story tall monster invaded your town and was walking down the street toward you would you run away or just stand there and wait to be eaten?
Most people make their best effort to avoid death if at all possible. Covid kills people. We have a vaccine that prevents Covid from killing you. People that want to live make efforts to avoid death. Just because Trump told you to avoid the vaccine does mean that the sane people in this country are following his advice.
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Trump encouraged people to get the vax. My doctor advised me not to get the vax. The vax doesn't guarantee you won't die from covid. The overwhelming majority of people aren't dying from covid naturally. What is the IFR again? How do you know I am not taking steps to avoid death from covid?

I don't know that covid is any taller than 6' to be honest. I will take my chances. I like my odds.
 
Mean Machine said:
Ok, but over 780,000 people have died. You fools can say that the numbers are inflated but even if the number is 500,000 that is still a ton of dead people that would otherwise be alive. Just because the pandemic is inconvenient for you and you don’t like sacrificing that doesn’t mean the virus isn’t real.
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The number is probably closer to 100,000 which would make covid similar to a very nasty flu outbreak.

And what do you mean by "that is still a ton of dead people that would otherwise be alive"? How would they still be alive? Most of them died before the vaccine was widely available.

As an aside, are you willing to consider that lock downs and masking did nothing to prevent covid spread, hospitalization and deaths? That's what the data seems to show. And lock downs definitely caused a great deal of collateral damage that we'll be suffering from for decades.
 
winbypin said:
Trump encouraged people to get the vax. My doctor advised me not to get the vax. The vax doesn't guarantee you won't die from covid. The overwhelming majority of people aren't dying from covid naturally. What is the IFR again? How do you know I am not taking steps to avoid death from covid?

I don't know that covid is any taller than 6' to be honest. I will take my chances. I like my odds.
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I hope you don’t end up on a ventilator Like my Uncle.
 
lotr10 said:
The number is probably closer to 100,000 which would make covid similar to a very nasty flu outbreak.

And what do you mean by "that is still a ton of dead people that would otherwise be alive"? How would they still be alive? Most of them died before the vaccine was widely available.

As an aside, are you willing to consider that lock downs and masking did nothing to prevent covid spread, hospitalization and deaths? That's what the data seems to show. And lock downs definitely caused a great deal of collateral damage that we'll be suffering from for decades.
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So you admit that the number of deaths has declined greatly since the vaccine came out?
 
Mean Machine said:
If a gigantic, 100 story tall monster invaded your town and was walking down the street toward you would you run away or just stand there and wait to be eaten?
Most people make their best effort to avoid death if at all possible. Covid kills people. We have a vaccine that prevents Covid from killing you. People that want to live make efforts to avoid death. Just because Trump told you to avoid the vaccine does mean that the sane people in this country are following his advice.
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Why would Trump tell people to avoid a vaccine he is proud of getting to the market. People balking at the vaccine is the antithesis of the cult narrative.

Covid actually isnt all that efficient at killing people in the big picture.
 
It's perfectly reasonable for people to be worried about long-term effects from mRNA vaccines. As well as traditional vaccines where the original virus has an extremely murky origin story with concerns about manmade/military involvement. Moderna's profiles in the media prior to the outbreak of COVID were extremely unflattering, they were even being compared to Theranos. My guess is it's fine to take, but I can't dismiss the thought of it not being fine from my mind totally.

So yes it seems like if you're 65+ it's a good idea for you. You're too old to worry about what's gonna happen 5-10 years down the line anyway. It'll help you and protect you. But if you're younger than that, it's like gambling between dying in a car crash or getting struck by lightning. COVID is exceedingly unlikely to kill you and the media is engaging in a statistics course abortion amplifying every young person that dies of it. Take it or don't, because you pass the virus on regardless of vaccination status. And it seems like the variants are getting away from the original vaccine's profile of effectiveness. No idea if a new one is coming.

I guess I don't feel that absent a parole officer or staff sergeant that the government can tell adults what to do medically in the United States. Or that businesses should be allowed to tell employees what to do either. That's for kids in school, not adult American citizens. Well aware there are instances where this happened to adults pre-COVID with traveling and such, but... kinda don't care. Japan or any other nation is welcome to refuse me for reasons as frivolous as not liking the color blue. I have constitutional rights here in the US, not there. So no, I find it very hard to believe that this OSHA vaccine mandate passes muster. Should it, those in the majority decision need to be removed.
 
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Mean Machine said:
So you admit that the number of deaths has declined greatly since the vaccine came out?
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There is no doubt that the vaccine helps prevent covid deaths, as does natural immunity. Who has said otherwise? There are multiple reasons for the decline in deaths (from the high point in winter 2020/21) including herd immunity, vaccination and the virus going through a natural cycle where it becomes more contagious and less virulent.

The real question is that as herd immunity and vaccination continue to increase what's driving this latest increase in deaths? Has the mass vaccination of the population with a vaccine that employs a novel MOA at the HEIGHT of the pandemic introduced unexpected complications in covid's natural progression? Or is the curve below just part of covid obeying Farr's law and exhibiting a last gasp before being relegated to common cold status?

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winbypin said:
Sorry to hear that.
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Thanks. He was 80. He went real quick. Got Covid, was in the hospital within 5 days, got put on a ventilator 4 days later, died 3 days after being on the ventilator. A total of 12 days from the day he was diagnosed. Awful virus.
 
Mean Machine said:
Ok, but over 780,000 people have died. You fools can say that the numbers are inflated but even if the number is 500,000 that is still a ton of dead people that would otherwise be alive. Just because the pandemic is inconvenient for you and you don’t like sacrificing that doesn’t mean the virus isn’t real.
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780,000 people have died from obesity
 
Mean Machine said:
Thanks. He was 80. He went real quick. Got Covid, was in the hospital within 5 days, got put on a ventilator 4 days later, died 3 days after being on the ventilator. A total of 12 days from the day he was diagnosed. Awful virus.
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My condolences.

It's tough getting old, too. We all degrade physically, eventually, IF we are lucky. The best we can each hope for is to manage our individual descent into old age well.
 
jackson03 said:
It's perfectly reasonable for people to be worried about long-term effects from mRNA vaccines. As well as traditional vaccines where the original virus has an extremely murky origin story with concerns about manmade/military involvement. Moderna's profiles in the media prior to the outbreak of COVID were extremely unflattering, they were even being compared to Theranos. My guess is it's fine to take, but I can't dismiss the thought of it not being fine from my mind totally.

So yes it seems like if you're 65+ it's a good idea for you. You're too old to worry about what's gonna happen 5-10 years down the line anyway. It'll help you and protect you. But if you're younger than that, it's like gambling between dying in a car crash or getting struck by lightning. COVID is exceedingly unlikely to kill you and the media is engaging in a statistics course abortion amplifying every young person that dies of it. Take it or don't, because you pass the virus on regardless of vaccination status. And it seems like the variants are getting away from the original vaccine's profile of effectiveness. No idea if a new one is coming.

I guess I don't feel that absent a parole officer or staff sergeant that the government can tell adults what to do medically in the United States. Or that businesses should be allowed to tell employees what to do either. That's for kids in school, not adult American citizens. Well aware there are instances where this happened to adults pre-COVID with traveling and such, but... kinda don't care. Japan or any other nation is welcome to refuse me for reasons as frivolous as not liking the color blue. I have constitutional rights here in the US, not there. So no, I find it very hard to believe that this OSHA vaccine mandate passes muster. Should it, those in the majority decision need to be removed.
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Pretty much where I am at on this this. I am so disgusted with Public Health's nanny state least common denominator attitudes and policies that accept disenfranchising or even harming the individual in a roll of the dice to TRY and MAYBE put up "better" macro numbers. The time in which the "alpha virus", the Wuhan SARS-CoV-2 was around is OVER. EVERY DEMOCRAT POLICY denies that the virus has changed, because they WANT the FEAR TO REMAIN. (And YES, there are a few straight up greed-head Pharma-whores that just want the campaign fund(D) kick-backs in '22 and '24. Only fools deny this happens)

THIS ALL TURNED TO BS THE MINUTE THE DEMOCRAT PARTY TRIED TO USE XI'S VIRUS TO GET TRUMP. DEMOCRAT PARTY BEFORE THE PEOPLE, BEFORE REALITY. GOD DAMN THE DEMOCRAT PARTY TO OBLIVION!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:

Don't tread on me and mine to protect stupid people. Be honest, and let the chips fall where they may.
 
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cabezadecaballo said:
I am so disgusted with Public Health's nanny state least common denominator attitudes and policies that accept disenfranchising or even harming the individual in a roll of the dice to TRY and MAYBE put up "better" macro numbers.
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This is where I became enraged. The COVID macros get slightly better, while you've disenfranchised adults and skyrocketed social dysfunction like drug OD deaths and such through the roof. What are you achieving? Not just from the layman's standpoint, but from a Public Health standpoint. It could be argued that if at-risk people don't want the jab, all power to them. Don't punish everyone else, including those vulnerable for other reasons. To say nothing of the precedent being set in the degradation of individual liberty. Studies in the future will have to sort it all out but I dislike the black and white approach here, it's almost religious in tone.

I find it telling that the two best hospitals in Northeast Ohio (UH and the Clinic) immediately reversed the mandate. Dumps like Summa were the first to implement and won't relent.
 
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