Cleveland Browns 2023 Edition

underthelights

underthelights

Well-known member
Figured I'd update this from the 2022 thread. Big year for the franchise. I hope the Watson deal works out and doesn't wreck the Browns for another 10 years. I like the Elijah Moore trade. I also like the additions they made at safety and along the defensive line. I'm a little worried about linebacker play, though. Can Chubb hold up? Vegas has them at number 13 at +2800 to win the Super Bowl. I'd be thrilled with a 10 win season, but know all too well what optimism does in Cleveland.
 
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underthelights said:
Figured I'd update this from the 2022 thread. Big year for the franchise. I hope the Watson deal works out and doesn't wreck the Browns for another 10 years. I like the Corey Davis trade. I also like the additions they made at safety and along the defensive line. I'm a little worried about linebacker play, though. Can Chubb hold up? Vegas has them at number 13 at +2800 to win the Super Bowl. I'd be thrilled with a 10 win season, but know all too well what optimism does in Cleveland.
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I assume you mean Elijah Moore, not Corey Davis.

I think the jury is still out on Moore's maturity and whether Watson can recapture his prior level of play. If Moore matures and Watson is good, the team could be good going forward.
 
clarkgriswold said:
I assume you mean Elijah Moore, not Corey Davis.

I think the jury is still out on Moore's maturity and whether Watson can recapture his prior level of play. If Moore matures and Watson is good, the team could be good going forward.
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I did. I hadn't finished my first cup of coffee yet. Or maybe it's the revolving door of washed up WR's that come through the organization that had me confused. Or maybe I'm just old.
 
clarkgriswold said:
I assume you mean Elijah Moore, not Corey Davis.

I think the jury is still out on Moore's maturity and whether Watson can recapture his prior level of play. If Moore matures and Watson is good, the team could be good going forward.
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The Browns have not had great success in drafting & developing wr’s. Donavon Peoples-Jones (2020, 6th rd) is the best Browns drafted/grown wr since……Josh Gordon who was drafting be the Browns (2012, 2nd rd)?
 
tom 48 said:
You've been following the Browns for too long; cynicism rules over optimism. Unfortunately, with the Browns, cynicism is usually the wiser choice.
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Actually isn’t cynicism. Look at their division. Are they better than Cincy? No. Are they better than Baltimore? No. Are they better than Pitt? Debatable, but I would vote no
 
Cedar_Point said:
Actually isn’t cynicism. Look at their division. Are they better than Cincy? No. Are they better than Baltimore? No. Are they better than Pitt? Debatable, but I would vote no
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Vegas says Cleveland is way better than Stillers, based on Super Bowl odds. Bengals clear 1st, Ravens 2nd, Browns 3rd, Stillers way back...

i almost always believe Vegas...
 
wolves82 said:
Vegas says Cleveland is way better than Stillers, based on Super Bowl odds. Bengals clear 1st, Ravens 2nd, Browns 3rd, Stillers way back...

i almost always believe Vegas...
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That's probably true, but if you come in third in the division, you pretty much have no chance at the playoffs.
 
Cedar_Point said:
8-9/9-8. Will miss the playoffs and will fire Stefanski and Berry
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Agree. I picked 8-9 last year and got roasted by the superfans, but I knew they were not a playoff team. The same this year, but it won’t be due to Watson playing poorly. It will be due to limiting Watson and not using him correctly, because Stefanski is far too confined to a system that doesn’t favor Watson’s skills. So it basically equals two wasted Watson years, with a possible third on the way due to getting acclimated to the system of the new wrong choice of head coach after Stefanski.
 
OldSoulon said:
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1971…Browns win the division and lose to the Colts in the playoffs. The next year they went 10-4 and lost a close playoff game to the perfect Dolphins. Up to that point in their history the Browns were a model franchise, playoff and championship contender every season. Nobody back then would ever guess it was all going to end and the franchise would sink to mediocrity with a few playoff years sprinkled in until the team was moved and a complete garbage redux of the Browns would become the league’s worst franchise.
 
Well-oiled Machine: Baltimore Ravens, Kansas City Chiefs, New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers

Pretty Smooth: Buffalo Bills, Cincinnati Bengals, Green Bay Packers, New York Giants, San Francisco 49ers, Los Angeles Rams

They do fine: Carolina Panthers, Chicago Bears, Indianapolis Colts, Jacksonville Jaguars, Los Angeles Chargers, Miami Dolphins, Las Vegas Raiders, Minnesota Vikings, New Orleans Saints, Seattle Seahawks, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Slightly Unhinged: Arizona Cardinals, Atlanta Falcons, Dallas Cowboys, Denver Broncos, Detroit Lions, New York Jets, Tennessee Titans

Dumpster fire: Cleveland Browns, Houston Texans, Washington Commanders

 
tom 48 said:
Well-oiled Machine: Baltimore Ravens, Kansas City Chiefs, New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers

Pretty Smooth: Buffalo Bills, Cincinnati Bengals, Green Bay Packers, New York Giants, San Francisco 49ers, Los Angeles Rams

They do fine: Carolina Panthers, Chicago Bears, Indianapolis Colts, Jacksonville Jaguars, Los Angeles Chargers, Miami Dolphins, Las Vegas Raiders, Minnesota Vikings, New Orleans Saints, Seattle Seahawks, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Slightly Unhinged: Arizona Cardinals, Atlanta Falcons, Dallas Cowboys, Denver Broncos, Detroit Lions, New York Jets, Tennessee Titans

Dumpster fire: Cleveland Browns, Houston Texans, Washington Commanders

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A lot of these organizations seem more fragile to me. Whoever assembled that list has a much higher opinion of the:
Bears - Not sure what they've done lately to make anyone think it's a solid organization.
Colts - Jim Irsay makes them slightly unhinged for as long as he's around.
Jaguars - Maybe Lawrence is the guy at QB and will help that organization turn the corner, but the owner's kid has his hands in a lot of pies and doesn't seem like he's all there. Said son is the bankroll and mastermind behind the All Elite Wrestling promotion where he appears to have no control over his talent.
Dolphins - FFS, they just went without a 1st round pick due to tampering because their owner is a goof. Also, the HC coach looks like he got beat up for his lunch money every day of his life, including today.
Raiders - With one of Al Davis' kin in charge, how are they anything but unhinged or worse? Add in the number of 14+ point leads they blew on the field this past season. Given his track record as a HC, how confident are any of you that Josh McDaniels will make the Raiders a winner?
I'm not so sure about the Panthers either.

I know the Titans previous GM earned himself a pink slip, but all the teams above probably wish they could have had the Titans' success from the previous few years. Oh yeah, and the Titans are on the verge of getting a new domed stadium, too. They do pretty well despite not having had elite QB play for years.
 
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wolves82 said:
No, just pointing out your comment about Pitt was not a very smart opinion.
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That's your opinion. It's as valid as any, but history since 1972 shows me it's nearly always a better bet to take the Steelers over the Browns in the final standings. Fifty years is more than a trend.
 
wolves82 said:
No, just pointing out your comment about Pitt was not a very smart opinion.
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Not smart? The NFL is QB/Coach league. Tomlin>Stefanski…not debatable
The Watson we watched last year? I’d argue Pickett is a better option. Of course Watson could turn it around and get back to top 5ish form. Neither team is a Super Bowl contender. Those odds are meaningless
 
Cedar_Point said:
Not smart? The NFL is QB/Coach league. Tomlin>Stefanski…not debatable
The Watson we watched last year? I’d argue Pickett is a better option. Of course Watson could turn it around and get back to top 5ish form. Neither team is a Super Bowl contender. Those odds are meaningless
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This is the wild card that will determine the Browns season and, quite frankly, I'd rather take my chances with Watson than Pickett.
 
cjb5656 said:
This is the wild card that will determine the Browns season and, quite frankly, I'd rather take my chances with Watson than Pickett.
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It’s not just one’s qb and their level of play, it is also at what cost that qb is to the team.

Watson at 5 years, $230 mil with 2023 cap hit of $19 mil - did he perform that much better than quarterback X. In this instance, Pickett is on his rookie deal of 4 year, $14 mil with a 2023 cap hit of $3.1 mil. Was Watson 5x better than Pickett in 2022? Is/will Watson be 5x+ better than Pickett or most NFL qb’s over the next 3 years? He better be if Cleveland wants to contend fir a Super Bowl because the Browns & Watson are stuck with one another of the next 3 years.

FYI: After the Browns redid Watson’s contract this off season, the future cap hits are:

2023 - $19 mil, $224.8 team cap
2024 - $63.9 mil, $256 projected team cap
2025 - $63.9 mil, $282 projected team cap
2026 - $63.9 mil, $308 projected team cap
2027 - $8.9 mil in dead $$$ toward the Browns cap

2027 is a dead/dummy year. Watson is a free agent after 2026 season but the Browns have extended/pushed out the cap cost into 2027. The projected team cap #’s in future years are assuming the cap goes up by the same % as they did from 2022 to 2023.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
It’s not just one’s qb and their level of play, it is also at what cost that qb is to the team.

Watson at 5 years, $230 mil with 2023 cap hit of $19 mil - did he perform that much better than quarterback X. In this instance, Pickett is on his rookie deal of 4 year, $14 mil with a 2023 cap hit of $3.1 mil. Was Watson 5x better than Pickett in 2022? Is/will Watson be 5x+ better than Pickett or most NFL qb’s over the next 3 years? He better be if Cleveland wants to contend fir a Super Bowl because the Browns & Watson are stuck with one another of the next 3 years.

FYI: After the Browns redid Watson’s contract this off season, the future cap hits are:

2023 - $19 mil, $224.8 team cap
2024 - $63.9 mil, $256 projected team cap
2025 - $63.9 mil, $282 projected team cap
2026 - $63.9 mil, $308 projected team cap
2027 - $8.9 mil in dead $$$ toward the Browns cap

2027 is a dead/dummy year. Watson is a free agent after 2026 season but the Browns have extended/pushed out the cap cost into 2027. The projected team cap #’s in future years are assuming the cap goes up by the same % as they did from 2022 to 2023.
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Having a crappy QB on a rookie deal never makes a team better. It just means they are still needing a QB.
 
cjb5656 said:
It wasn’t due to him. Besides, Baker can always say he is 1-0 vs the Steelers in the playoffs as he begs teams for back up jobs to stay in the league.
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Pickett will be better in 2023. He has a lot of weapons and what should be an even better OL.
 
cjb5656 said:
It wasn’t due to him. Besides, Baker can always say he is 1-0 vs the Steelers in the playoffs as he begs teams for back up jobs to stay in the league.
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You are 100% correct, the Steelers W was no due to Pickett. A rookie qb drafted 20th is not expected to go out & win you games. A qb with 4 years of experience making $230 mil over 5 years is expected to be a difference maker.

More will be expected of Pickett in 2023. A heck of lot more is greatly expected & needed of Watson for the Browns to get out of the AFC North cellar in 2023.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
You are 100% correct, the Steelers W was no due to Pickett. A rookie qb drafted 20th is not expected to go out & win you games. A qb with 4 years of experience making $230 mil over 5 years is expected to be a difference maker.

More will be expected of Pickett in 2023. A heck of lot more is greatly expected & needed of Watson for the Browns to get out of the AFC North cellar in 2023.
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I'm nervous the organization is going to clean house if the Browns don't make the playoffs. The expectation is that Watson comes in and wins a bunch of games, as it should be with that contract. However, I don't think it's realistic with the roster. How much longer can Chubb be great and carry the subpar offense?
 
underthelights said:
I'm nervous the organization is going to clean house if the Browns don't make the playoffs. The expectation is that Watson comes in and wins a bunch of games, as it should be with that contract. However, I don't think it's realistic with the roster. How much longer can Chubb be great and carry the subpar offense?
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Chubb isn’t getting the ball this year. Browns have told us that with what they have done in offseason
 
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