Central District

E

exbear09

New member
Can UA overthrow SC for the crown? Who will step up and be the top dogs in their respective events this year? Who are the young guns who will burst onto the scene and throw their hat in with the established names this year?

Get excited. February will be here before we know it!
 
 
SC loses Whitaker, Shuh, Kocher and Taylor, but UA loses Spangler, Kelch, Miranda (although he was not able to swim at Districts last year), Lowrey. That's a big points hit. I think that UA's breakout is going to be Joey Long this year. He is capable of winning the 200/500.
 
Based on what's coming back right now it looks like UA, SC, Thomas, Liberty, and New Albany as the top 5 in the Central District. UA is the clear favorite...now; but SC may have more depth which could make a difference at the district level. Thomas doesn't have enough swimmer to challenge UA or SC, but will have some quality swims and should qualify at least 2 relays to the state. Both New Albany and Liberty are a bit back from Thomas. It will be interesting to see how Scioto responds after losing their coach.
 
The amount of returning points between UA and SC are very close - it will come down to who steps up more SC's juniors or UA's sophomores.
 
I also like to see the wild cards coming into the Central District and taking points from SC and UA in an event like Dolgov from Olentangy and DiPietro from Lancaster.
 
Top returning upperclassmen by event:
200 Free: Long, Cutler & Neri UA; Callahan Kilbourne; Swanson SC
200 IM: Dolgove Liberty; DePietro Lancaster; Rabe UA; McKinley SC; Harper TW
50 Free: Reeder TW; Alfonso NA; Moore Jerome; Judkins Grove City; Grodesky SC
Fly: Willi, Swanson & Brown SC; Jelen UA; Huddle NA
100 Free: Reeder; Moore; Judkins; Alfonso
500 Free: Long & Cutler; Callahan; Jack & Cogan SC
Back: Depietro; Neri & Chin UA; Willi
Breast: Dolgov Liberty; McKinley, D'Angelo & Herath SC; Rabe; Harper

Apologies if I missed anyone.
 
It’s early, but here are some impressively fast times from the John Bruce Meet last week end.
Braxten Judkins – Grove City 100 Free: :49.97 (2010 District time :48.28)
Jake Moore – Dublin Jerome 50 Free: :22.72 (2010 District time :22.19)
Tanner Barton – Dublin Jerome 100 Fly: :54.94 (2010 District time :53.79)
Sam Reeder – Thomas Worthington 100 Free: :48.70 (2010 District time :48.90) Guess water polo didn't hurt his performance.This must be close to a pr.
 
thedutchman said:
Sam Reeder – Thomas Worthington 100 Free: :48.70 (2010 District time :48.90) Guess water polo didn't hurt his performance.This must be close to a pr.
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Thanks, he went 47.76 sophomore year and was pleased with this time after nothing but polo practice the last 3 months, wearing a polo suit and shaggy hair.
 
Swimming out

I am curious to know people's thoughts on this question. Should swimmers be allowed to swim out (meaning practice with a club team during the season)? I do not mean should the OHSAA allow it, they obviously do, but should the high school coach allow it? Is it disruptive to team chemistry? Does it lead to other swimmers (possibly even inferior swimmers complaining because the athlete swimming out only shows up at meets? Is it not good for the coaches ego, when some of his/her best swimmers are trained elsewhere? Is it not true to the spirit of high school sports, which are concerned with school spirit, teamwork, etc? Does preventing swimming out hurt athletes wishing to be trained "optimally" or by the coach of their choice?

Which teams have policies preventing swimming out? Do they work? Does it cause good swimmers to bypass high school competitions in favor of club competitions?

Which teams allow swimming out? Is it working? How do they avoid the pitfalls above?
 
scwat said:
I am curious to know people's thoughts on this question. Should swimmers be allowed to swim out
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You have brought up all of the sticky points, so clearly you have been thinking about this. My opinion only.

Disruptive to the team? yes. A team that practices together supports each other, no communication gaps. Do inferior swimmers complain? yes, they only see what happens at their practice and see swimmers who are swimming out not being part of the team, but taking the top relay spots and sectionals places. Coaches ego? I think that coaches egos are based on performance at meets, not at practice, so if a kid wins a state championship, it is the HS coach standing their collecting the attention, not the club coach. Hurting the better swimmers if they do not swim out. Probably, the club coaches are typically more experienced and higher paid, and train these kids all year round. I do not think that it is a good idea for a swimmer to avoid their HS team to swim exclusively club. It sends the message to a college coach that the kid is not a team player. Now if the kid is so good that college swimming is secondary to Sr. Nats or Olympic trials, maybe college swimming is not important to them. Teams like Watterson seem to win with a lot a girls swimming out, but it appears to be a balancing act for the coach. It does take some of the pressure off finding enough water space and allows the swimmers practicing with the team to get more specialized attention.

Talk bluntly to the coach when making this decision, but HS swimming is a wonderful experience and should not be dismissed as not as valuable as club competition
 
swimming out

Having 2 boys who swam out during the season, I have some experience. Everything preeder states is true. Some schools prohibit swimming out either by the coach or AD. I had a heated conversation with the wife of the AD who thought it was really sad that my boys did not want to be part of the team. My boys wanted to be swimmers, not just on the team It is not easy getting a great workout with 10 to a lane. If you attend one of the few HS that have a pool, it does not make much sense. They have great teams and workout is right after school. Some schools have requirements on how many workouts you need to attend.
 
Swimming out

Good points on swimming out. I think it is a shame about what the AD said in regard to your son(s). It seems high school coaches and ADs don't always appreciate the nature of the sport. Swimming is clearly an exception relative to most sports. It scores as a team but performance is individual-based. Plus, most swimmers do develop a trust over many years with club coaches. If a school does not have a pool, training times and workouts may not be optimal. I think high school coaches should be flexible with swimmers that want to train on the outside and appreciate their effort in becoming their best. Ultimately, their success does bring glory to the school and after all, it is the club swimmer's high school as well.

It is similar in summer leagues, where sometimes coaches yield to complaints of swimmers who may be at practice everyday, but are not always working as hard as the club swimmers. Perhaps setting a minimal requirement (one or two or three practices per week) with the high school is a better way to handle the situation for a high school coach, rather than eliminating it all together.

Incidentally, Watterson has put a time requirement on swimming out this year. This could lead to promising talent not swimming with the high school team. Maybe this is a result of the balancing act they have had to do in the past, but still kind of a shame considering the direction the program seemed to be going.
 
Seems like the best swimmers swim out unless their school has its own pool. Without use of a pool everyday, training for state level competition is difficult. Do you suppose that it is just a coincidence that the only teams to win the state and district over the last 50 years are schools with pools? So until the school is able to provide the facility for training at a championship level it would seem only fair to allow those who wish to train elsewhere.
 
rjones said:
Seems like the best swimmers swim out unless their school has its own pool. Without use of a pool everyday, training for state level competition is difficult. Do you suppose that it is just a coincidence that the only teams to win the state and district over the last 50 years are schools with pools? So until the school is able to provide the facility for training at a championship level it would seem only fair to allow those who wish to train elsewhere.
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Rjones, for once I have to agree. The reality is that unless a swimmer is at a school with its own pool the prospect of competing at the highest level without swimming out is not good. Until Ohio schools make the commitment to building adequate facilities for swimming, the ability of a high school coach to train championship swimmers is not present. Despite dryland training and weight room work, at some point you need the yardage. Pool time 3 or 4 days a week just doesn't cut it. Look around the state at the best teams that train in, they all have their own pool and schedule 8 to 10 water sessions per week. That's the only way to get the necessary yardage. And of course, the high schools without pools are competing with clubs for pool time. In that competition they are at a significant disadvantage as they are seeking time for only a 3 to 4 month period while the club team is renting year round. I can't think of a championship high school program without its own pool that does not allow swimming out. That said, when possible I think it is better for the swimmer to swim in. In the situation that does not give the swimmer enough training swimming in, it seems that it still is appropriate to require the club swimmers to appear at some high school practices. Also, it is important that the club coach and high school coach communicate with one another. There certainly have been times when because of lack of communication, ego, or whatever that the swimmer suffers and does not have his best performance. Sometimes it seems that the taper is not geared to the high school meets but more at the club meets. Historically, Cville, a team dominated by club swimmers, seems to miss its taper for the high school meets. Is that the club coach placing the focus on the club meets over the high school championship meets? Anyway the reality is that club swimming is a dominant force in swimming. High school swimming is fabulous and far more exciting than the club meets. No where in the club system do you match the excitement that you find at the state meet and the district meets. That's because of the team aspect of the competition. The club system does not match that. Nor can they duplicate the excitement of a competitive duel meet. That said, swimmer development comes out of the club system. With compromise both can co-exist. When one side refuses to compromise it leads to a less competitive team and unfairly penalizes individual swimmers.
 
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swimfan said:
Until Ohio schools make the commitment to building adequate facilities for swimming, the ability of a high school coach to train championship swimmers is not present.
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There is the key point in this discussion. High schools are not being built with pools, pools are not being build and supported by schools systems, and the pools that are being build are university pools, Dennison, Ohio Wesleyan, Kenyon where private campaigns raise the funds. This thread discussion started as a "swimming out" discussion and really boils down to a lack of school district support for swimming programs question. Which brings in more money, a turf football field or a state championship in swimming?
 
preeder61 said:
There is the key point in this discussion. High schools are not being built with pools, pools are not being build and supported by schools systems, and the pools that are being build are university pools, Dennison, Ohio Wesleyan, Kenyon where private campaigns raise the funds. This thread discussion started as a "swimming out" discussion and really boils down to a lack of school district support for swimming programs question. Which brings in more money, a turf football field or a state championship in swimming?
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Beautifully stated preeder! The coach has to be up front from the start of the season with the parents and the team members. Most schools have club swimmers, if the coach is worth anything they would understand that the club coach has spent more time with the swimmer and thusly know better how to train them. The swimmer is basicaly on loan to the High School team. If the High School program is smart they will let the club swimmers train with their club. This will open up more water space to the non-club swimmers at practice and that coach can spend more time training the swimmers who actually could use their help. If the coach explains that this is what is going to happen from the begining, that yes these swimmers are going to show up at meet time and maybe/more than likely swim faster than the non-club swimmers life should be good. Honesty from the start usually works well.
 
preeder61 said:
Which brings in more money, a turf football field or a state championship in swimming?
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Good point preeder. But don't you find it sad that high school sports are no longer just about participation, the opportunity to compete and the wonderful life lessons and experiences that come from that?
 
thedutchman said:
But don't you find it sad that high school sports are no longer just about participation, the opportunity to compete and the wonderful life lessons and experiences that come from that?
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There are a lot of things about today's HS sports that make me wish for bygone days. How about performances not achieved by natural athletic ability and hard work? Someone has to start testing HS athletes in all sports, with college scholarships on the line, the stakes are too high and some will cheat. How about opening that can of worms? I am convinced that swimming is not immune.
 
preeder61 said:
There are a lot of things about today's HS sports that make me wish for bygone days. How about performances not achieved by natural athletic ability and hard work? Someone has to start testing HS athletes in all sports, with college scholarships on the line, the stakes are too high and some will cheat. How about opening that can of worms? I am convinced that swimming is not immune.
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Wow!!!! That's a big statment to make. If I understand the rules the way I think I do, the OHSAA reserves the right to test any athlete at any time for whatever reason they see fit. If there is someone that is suspect I'm sure somebody knows something and it can be checked out. If they are a club athlete and compete at very high levels they are checked by USA Swimming and FINA aren't they?
 
WATERDAD said:
Wow!!!! That's a big statment to make. If I understand the rules the way I think I do, the OHSAA reserves the right to test any athlete at any time for whatever reason they see fit. If there is someone that is suspect I'm sure somebody knows something and it can be checked out. If they are a club athlete and compete at very high levels they are checked by USA Swimming and FINA aren't they?
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When's the last (or first for that matter) time that OHSAA checked anyone?
 
aquacard said:
When's the last (or first for that matter) time that OHSAA checked anyone?
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I have no idea. Guess I'm just trusting that people aren't going to do things like that. Maybe I am oblivious, is this really a problem in high school swimming? Is it possible that these kids that come out on top actually have the ability and work ethic to just do well? Maybe everyone who wins cheats and people like me just are not aware of it. The OHSAA folks do have the right to test if they see fit and the athletic department at each school has the right also if they suspect something is up. Maybe we should set up a "Nanny State" and test everyone for all drugs! The athletes, coaches, officials and especially the parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
WATERDAD said:
I have no idea. Guess I'm just trusting that people aren't going to do things like that. Maybe I am oblivious, is this really a problem in high school swimming? Is it possible that these kids that come out on top actually have the ability and work ethic to just do well? Maybe everyone who wins cheats and people like me just are not aware of it. The OHSAA folks do have the right to test if they see fit and the athletic department at each school has the right also if they suspect something is up. Maybe we should set up a "Nanny State" and test everyone for all drugs! The athletes, coaches, officials and especially the parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Just sit in the stands at any big age group meet and listen to some of the crazy things parents are doing to "enhance" their kids. It starts well before high school. Whether it is caffeine, energy drinks, creatine, "special formula fluids", ... some people will do anything for a perceived edge. Once parents establish that it is OK to search for a chemical advantage, kids start experimenting on their own when they reach high school. OHSAA won't get involved unless there is a scandal and there is direct cause/effect established.
 
ImPartial said:
Just sit in the stands at any big age group meet and listen to some of the crazy things parents are doing to "enhance" their kids. It starts well before high school. Whether it is caffeine, energy drinks, creatine, "special formula fluids", ... some people will do anything for a perceived edge. Once parents establish that it is OK to search for a chemical advantage, kids start experimenting on their own when they reach high school. OHSAA won't get involved unless there is a scandal and there is direct cause/effect established.
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All my kids do is eat a balanced diet, drink water or powerade/gatorade and take a multivitamin and practice, they are able to compete on the high school level. College coaches are talking to them but not expecting much if anything to be offered. I have no expectations of them becoming Olympic champions or playing in the pros though either. Guess I'm not paying attention to other families enough, just glad to see my kids do personal best times and have some fun. Didn't realize it has gotten that messed up.
 
One saving grace to protect a university from falsely accepting the enhanced performance of a HS athlete is the ACT/SAT testing. A kid can have great times and huge breakout performances due to "special formulas" (as Impartial says, I laughed out loud having heard these exact words before), but without the grades and the test scores, a university coach will not extend scholarship money. No coach wants to spend a dime on a kid who will be academically ineligible.

I was not saying that this is rampant in swimming, but that swimming is no more or less likely to be affected. I think that an article in ESPN Magazine estimated that more than 5% of HS athletes are enhancing. Here is a link to another study.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5426411_use-drugs-high-school-athletes.html
 
PEDs

I'm always amazed after watching club swimming in Columbus for many years how the same kids that did well as tykes, seem to do well in high school and beyond. Of course, there is the occasional late bloomer or the young star that doesn't grow or develop and levels off, but mostly the trend is there. PEDs would seemingly bring about fairly dramatic improvements and unexpected results over short periods. I haven't seen any evidence of it in Central Ohio.
 
preeder61 said:
There are a lot of things about today's HS sports that make me wish for bygone days. How about performances not achieved by natural athletic ability and hard work? Someone has to start testing HS athletes in all sports, with college scholarships on the line, the stakes are too high and some will cheat. How about opening that can of worms? I am convinced that swimming is not immune.
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Also from preeder:
I was not saying that this is rampant in swimming, but that swimming is no more or less likely to be affected. I think that an article in ESPN Magazine estimated that more than 5% of HS athletes are enhancing.

You claim that you are not saying this is rampant but you are pointing a finger somewhere. Why? Do you think someone or some group may be cheating and someone else is getting the short end of the stick. I just want to understand. I don't see it, maybe I am stupid or something, it just seems really strange to just throw that out there like that unless you have some proof.
 
WATERDAD said:
Also from preeder:
I was not saying that this is rampant in swimming, but that swimming is no more or less likely to be affected. I think that an article in ESPN Magazine estimated that more than 5% of HS athletes are enhancing.

You claim that you are not saying this is rampant but you are pointing a finger somewhere. Why? Do you think someone or some group may be cheating and someone else is getting the short end of the stick. I just want to understand. I don't see it, maybe I am stupid or something, it just seems really strange to just throw that out there like that unless you have some proof.
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This discussion started with a point about it being sad that HS sports has changed and that it is not about participation and opportunity to compete. I have been involved professionally in the sport through the last 4 Olympics where we have seen high profile cases of swimmers being suspended for enhancements. I believe that we can't be naive to the pressures that parent's and young athletes feel to achieve time standards, win championships and earn scholarships. I am not intending to start a rumor or begin assigning blame. My only intent is to openly discuss issues confronting the growth and advancement of the sport and in my opinion this is one of those issues along with the lack of community support in building facilities and the availability of good coaching.
 
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