The Dock
Persona Non Grata
We’ll be ready for them!
Central Catholic league 2021
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The Dock
Persona Non Grata
What strikes me as very bizarre is it doesn’t have to be that way for SC football and the CCL. It’s possible for SC to build up a respectable image in football that also elevates the CCL, without sacrificing St. Charles’ academic identity. But it’s daring. And it could miff some CCL personalities.
The solution? Play an MSL-Ohio schedule with CCL ‘Big 3’ filling the open weeks. That league is full of schools way closer to St Charles in school image and program caliber. SC can get some additional wins, play an entirely localized schedule -> CCL gets more L2 points.
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I hear ya, but that isn't happening . At some point their liability overcomes CCL pride. Rather see the other 3 drop them off the schedule and them pick up a game each versus the MSL , City League or OCC and their 200 school league.
ogealbhain
Well-known member
GCL guy (Elder) with sons at SC. Why are CCL schools not on par with GCL schools or Iggys and Eds? Not trying to be a d**k....just curious.
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
Ogeal- Congrats on having two boys attending St Charles- they obviously get their smarts from their mother (just kidding). All of the GCL schools are drastically bigger than the CCL schools. Although the CCL schools (excluding St Charles) have very good tradition & football programs they are not quite that of Moeller, St X or playing at Elder’s ‘The Pit”. Also Columbus does not have the Catholic base and # of Catholics that Cincinnati has. Finally, I believe the Columbus suburb public schools (Dublin, Hilliard, Pickerington, New Albany, Westerville) provide just as good or better educational options and with people having to pay those high property taxes it doesn’t make as much sense to sent their child to a private school (excluding the religious purposes).
Excluding St Charles, the CCL is very formidable football wise on a state level and have the championships to prove it.
Excluding St Charles, the CCL is very formidable football wise on a state level and have the championships to prove it.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
I don't know enough about Moeller, LaSalle; Ed's to make an informed comparison, but vis-a-vis the Jesuits (Ignatius, X) none of the CCL co-eds have the academic reputation to match. Not that BH, BH and SFD aren't good schools (they are) but those two are known statewide as heavyweights in the classroom. Chucks can match them on the books and on the buzzers, but they don't have the football tradition that entices the well-heeled and super-academic football types that the 'Cats and Bombers do. Also, X and Iggy have been around way longer. The CCL schools didn't exist until the 1950's and early 60's. SC has been around longer but much of its first-generation story of existence was as a seminary.
To compare against your alma, since I have some scant familiarity: there isn't a CCL school today where the majority of families is in one specific part of the city (contrast that with Elder and the west side of Cincinnati/western Hamilton County, where Purple tradition... spanning generations... is baked-in to the those neighborhoods and areas.) In the 60's-70's-80's the CCL schools were very much "neighborhood" schools. If you lived on the east side [Hartley] your public options were Walnut Ridge or Eastmoor (thriving school-communities, then) and if you were Catholic then there was BH; northeast side, DeSales; west side, Ready. Society/population patterns changed. Everyone went to the burbs. Very few people still in the "old neighborhood", with the exception of old money Eastmoor (BH) and Clintonville/NW Columbus (BW.)
The CCL co-eds are products largely of localized Catholic parishes coming together to create schools. Cheaper and easier, with the limited means of then, to build one school in a part of town for both boys and girls rather than separation of the sexes. So compared to the "Big 6" Catholic football powers, the CCL has always just been smaller and leaner on boys. Didn't stop DeSales from testing the waters in the 90's and 00's with the occasional games vs Moeller, X, Iggy, Ed's. I know they have at least one win over X; not sure if they have wins over the other three. LaSalle they've done pretty decent against, but I can't remember when they last played TBH. No disrespect to SFD, but it's self-explanatory why their best history against the Big 6 was against LaSalle (closest in parity.)
DeSales has one of the best athletic traditions in Ohio. If not for Walsh Jesuit, SFD would be the best "big" co-ed Catholic sports tradition in the state.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Also, I'm not personally aware of many multigenerational family traditions (let alone legacies) in the CCL. I know handfuls of DeSales and Hartley alumni of the 70's and 80's whose kids didn't go to Karl or Zettler for high school. Most parents I know of kids attending/graduated of both didn't go there themselves. Part of this is just where people settle down. Lots of green space and suburbs to pick from while still living within 20 minutes of downtown Columbus...
When it comes to the GCL vs CCL, it used to be reasonable to play.. but not so much anymore. 80s, 90s, 00s DeSales and Watterson both hung well with the GCL. Its tough now when Elder has 50-60 kids on the frosh squad and the CCL teams have like 20. There are always some years that are different(ie. 2016 DeSales could've probably done well in the GCL) but not regularly anymore. DeSales and Hartley could compete, but not win very many. Watterson might be able to hang around but the trend is DeSales and Hartley and even those two don't really have any business playing GCL schools anymore.
I mean Hartley against Moeller last year... albeit not Hartleys best year, after they jumped out 10-0 they got straight up mauled by Moeller. Plus that was probably the worst(if not definitely one of the worst) Moeller team in 30 years.
I do believe the CCL schools are good academically though. They may not be "heavyweights" but they are pretty darn good. I say that about all the schools.
I do see the legecy families though. They are alive and present for sure. Probably not as many as the Cincinnati privates, but they have a much longer tradition set than the Columbus schools.
I'd love to see the CCL regularly hang with the GCL again but until there are 30-40 kids per football class and a little more talent/depth on the lines, it isn't going to happen regularly.
I mean Hartley against Moeller last year... albeit not Hartleys best year, after they jumped out 10-0 they got straight up mauled by Moeller. Plus that was probably the worst(if not definitely one of the worst) Moeller team in 30 years.
I do believe the CCL schools are good academically though. They may not be "heavyweights" but they are pretty darn good. I say that about all the schools.
I do see the legecy families though. They are alive and present for sure. Probably not as many as the Cincinnati privates, but they have a much longer tradition set than the Columbus schools.
I'd love to see the CCL regularly hang with the GCL again but until there are 30-40 kids per football class and a little more talent/depth on the lines, it isn't going to happen regularly.
ogealbhain
Well-known member
Thanks for all the info. Interesting. FYI, SFD played Elder somewhere in the 2010-2013 range. I would add, I think Cincy has a lot more Catholics than Cbus. Not sure if that is statistically true but seems that way. Someone said same above.
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Joe, to follow up on my PM to you. A picture of him dated 10-13 running in Shoulder Pads and a Ball under his arm across the FB field. He was cleared to come back this week as i said. If he suits up the next week or so remains to be seen. I could see him giving it a try come playoff time.
All i know is that 3 boys from my sons class of 12 are in Medical School now. So DeSales and the CCL must be doing something right in the classroom.
DeSales Record over the Years versus Cincinnati Area Schools is 22-18 with 11 of the losses coming to Moeller and X .
0-7 Moeller , 2-4 X, 0-2 Elder, 7-3 LaSalle, 2-0 Mc Nick, 6-0 Mt Healthy, 1-0 Purcell Marian, 1-2 Anderson, 1-0 Aiken, 1-0 Turpin, 1-0 Wyoming
Versus some of the Cleveland Heavy Weights , 1-1 Iggy, 0-2 St Joes , 2-0 Walsh Jesuit, 5-2 Bendictine, *** 2-1 St Ed's , and 13-2 Dayton Kettering Alter.
ogealbhain
Well-known member
To be clear, I was only asking about football. No other areas.
Elder and DeSales played a really good game at the PIT in the late 2000s. If I remember correctly DeSales even led in the second half. If DeSales had 10 more players per class and an extra 2-3 good linemen it would be different.
Thanks for the update! Would be cool to see him get the chance to play. With him in the lineup this could be a final four team.
I’m Sorry WJ-OSU-STEELERS, There are No Public Systems in Central Ohio that provide Better Edcational option
then the Catholic school system. They are substantially more effective preparing Kids for College course work. They
Do this at a much more effective cost per student price compared to the public’s. Taxpayers need to take a hard look at this Fact. We cannot compete for the most part on facilities. Those tax levy’s and Bonds are just to big to compete against.
Iroquois
Well-known member
This is true. He did some practicing on Wednesday. I think they hold him out vs the NY team, and play him in a limited role vs St. Chucks.
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
Go Herd - So your saying the UA, Olentangy or Dublin school systems can’t compete or educationally prepare a kid for college compared to the Catholic schools in Central Ohio? What about providing services for kids with special needs such as dyslexia, speech, autism, etc?
Maybe the Catholic schools do a better job on the effective cost per child compared to the property taxes of the Columbus suburban schools - I don’t know I’m not that familiar with the cost of the Catholic schools. I’m not saying nor meant to imply the Columbus Catholic school education is poor, I know it is a good opportunity for a good education for a child. I just think the educational opportunities at a UA or Dublin are better. To each their own.
Maybe the Catholic schools do a better job on the effective cost per child compared to the property taxes of the Columbus suburban schools - I don’t know I’m not that familiar with the cost of the Catholic schools. I’m not saying nor meant to imply the Columbus Catholic school education is poor, I know it is a good opportunity for a good education for a child. I just think the educational opportunities at a UA or Dublin are better. To each their own.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
As a product of the Diocese who has first-hand familiarity with some of the districts mentioned (namely Olentangy), I think the debate between performance and experience is interesting but also an apples-to-orange comparison in a vein. Education is a complex subject to thoughtfully discuss and exchange opinions on in the general public due to the various natures of schooling systems, and how personal experience plays a significant role in the formation of one's opinion that may be unflinching. The truth is there isn't an objective, black-and-white answer to "one model/system is better than the other." In post-secondary education, there is no way to say that public research universities (e.g. University of Michigan, Ohio State) are better schools universally compared to small liberal arts colleges (e.g. Kenyon, Denison) and vice-versa. Massive differences in classroom size, student-professor relationships, the extent of program offerings and general student life. The real measure and interpretation of what the school has to offer ultimately is through what the student pursues; it's subjective. This also applies to secondary education.
I have a decade of experience with "high flyer" students across both the Diocese and the public systems, thanks to being a coach and tournament organizer (as well as one of the best readers in the entire state) for In The Know in Central Ohio. Through my professional connections and established relationships that I had with teachers at all of the various schools, I grew to learn a lot about what the posh, public schools outside of 270 were offering. Had the pleasure of getting a tour of Berlin when it first opened up, in fact, and I was at Liberty for a minute working with the kids. The facilities were beautiful, but that wasn't even the most impressive part. The advanced course offerings at schools such as Jerome, Liberty and New Albany were outstanding in its depth and breadth. It's a factor of school size and funding. I don't know as much about the CCL co-eds because they aren't as active in ITK -- not a slam, as plenty of suburban schools like UA, Worthington's, Gahanna-Lincoln aren't either -- other than they offer a slate that prepares their students fine for college. St. Charles for sure can go toe-to-toe on 95% of the offerings that the wealthy OCC academic leviathans have... it can never be 100% however because of the mandated Theology (this isn't a slam on Catholicism or religion class, mind you, just pointing out that the obligation to offer it pulls resources [read: money] from an extra teacher or two in another department.)
For a sizable portion (30-40%???) of the student bodies at the northern-suburb publics, they would not find a Diocesan education worth the cost of tuition. It's primarily a matter of simple demographics and the differences -- within that 30-40% I allude to there are lots of Indian and south-Asian families (so Catholicism, let alone Christianity, isn't a huge selling point), Mormons (interesting!), Chinese-American and Japanese-American families and Persians. Plus evangelicals, Pentecostal and non-denominational Christians -- the former two generally aren't reliable populations of families who'd pay tuition for Johnny or Susie to see 'Jesus Hanging on The Cross' (crucifix) in the classroom or the iconography and revering of Mary; those in the latter group already have an established private school option, Worthington Christian. The other thing within that 30-40% is the generational inclination toward the embrace and acceptance of non-heterosexual students. The publics have resources, extracurricular offerings and peer groups to embrace and accept; the Catholic schools fundamentally do not have those 'student supports' and cannot support those. ...~~Anyways~~... just like 30-40% of those public school students wouldn't go to the CCL, probably 30-40% of the CCL students wouldn't go to their public. And faith, specifically faith offerings (praying every day, school mass, Chapel, the tradition of prayer and virtue, learning about the sacraments and what it means to live a life either close to Saintliness or at least in the image and intention of Christ's sacrifice) is why.
Both school systems have the opportunities and offerings for their students to find their kindred spirits in the classroom during the 9 periods of schooling and after the final bell. The "best of the best" public schools do have an edge on what they can really offer kids in subjects like the sciences and mathematics, as well as foreign languages and fine arts.
The principal question in the real-time "public or private; e.g. go to UA/Liberty/Thomas or Watterson" question primarily comes down to "free" (no tuition; we pay the taxes to live in [x] district for a reason.) The OCC-CCL educational debate can perhaps be taken to another level of discussion and examination if we indeed get "EdChoice for All." As someone whose school never had any EdChoice eligibility until 1-2 years ago (and ours is very limited compared to what some of the CCL has been long able to benefit from), I reached the pain-staking conclusion (with a little help from an informed fellow poster) that your school has to offer a lot to this generation of parents who are writing the checks as paying customers because the public schools can do a crapload more for every kind of student.
I have a decade of experience with "high flyer" students across both the Diocese and the public systems, thanks to being a coach and tournament organizer (as well as one of the best readers in the entire state) for In The Know in Central Ohio. Through my professional connections and established relationships that I had with teachers at all of the various schools, I grew to learn a lot about what the posh, public schools outside of 270 were offering. Had the pleasure of getting a tour of Berlin when it first opened up, in fact, and I was at Liberty for a minute working with the kids. The facilities were beautiful, but that wasn't even the most impressive part. The advanced course offerings at schools such as Jerome, Liberty and New Albany were outstanding in its depth and breadth. It's a factor of school size and funding. I don't know as much about the CCL co-eds because they aren't as active in ITK -- not a slam, as plenty of suburban schools like UA, Worthington's, Gahanna-Lincoln aren't either -- other than they offer a slate that prepares their students fine for college. St. Charles for sure can go toe-to-toe on 95% of the offerings that the wealthy OCC academic leviathans have... it can never be 100% however because of the mandated Theology (this isn't a slam on Catholicism or religion class, mind you, just pointing out that the obligation to offer it pulls resources [read: money] from an extra teacher or two in another department.)
For a sizable portion (30-40%???) of the student bodies at the northern-suburb publics, they would not find a Diocesan education worth the cost of tuition. It's primarily a matter of simple demographics and the differences -- within that 30-40% I allude to there are lots of Indian and south-Asian families (so Catholicism, let alone Christianity, isn't a huge selling point), Mormons (interesting!), Chinese-American and Japanese-American families and Persians. Plus evangelicals, Pentecostal and non-denominational Christians -- the former two generally aren't reliable populations of families who'd pay tuition for Johnny or Susie to see 'Jesus Hanging on The Cross' (crucifix) in the classroom or the iconography and revering of Mary; those in the latter group already have an established private school option, Worthington Christian. The other thing within that 30-40% is the generational inclination toward the embrace and acceptance of non-heterosexual students. The publics have resources, extracurricular offerings and peer groups to embrace and accept; the Catholic schools fundamentally do not have those 'student supports' and cannot support those. ...~~Anyways~~... just like 30-40% of those public school students wouldn't go to the CCL, probably 30-40% of the CCL students wouldn't go to their public. And faith, specifically faith offerings (praying every day, school mass, Chapel, the tradition of prayer and virtue, learning about the sacraments and what it means to live a life either close to Saintliness or at least in the image and intention of Christ's sacrifice) is why.
Both school systems have the opportunities and offerings for their students to find their kindred spirits in the classroom during the 9 periods of schooling and after the final bell. The "best of the best" public schools do have an edge on what they can really offer kids in subjects like the sciences and mathematics, as well as foreign languages and fine arts.
The principal question in the real-time "public or private; e.g. go to UA/Liberty/Thomas or Watterson" question primarily comes down to "free" (no tuition; we pay the taxes to live in [x] district for a reason.) The OCC-CCL educational debate can perhaps be taken to another level of discussion and examination if we indeed get "EdChoice for All." As someone whose school never had any EdChoice eligibility until 1-2 years ago (and ours is very limited compared to what some of the CCL has been long able to benefit from), I reached the pain-staking conclusion (with a little help from an informed fellow poster) that your school has to offer a lot to this generation of parents who are writing the checks as paying customers because the public schools can do a crapload more for every kind of student.
ogealbhain
Well-known member
Very good points. Apples to oranges. Many years ago, when you could still get each high school's average ACT score, BW, Jerome, and UA had the same average. NA and Liberty were a point below. Wish that info would still be available.
I believe that is the case, even more-so now that DeSales has 5 wins. Would be a huge boost in computer points.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Yeah, the Amanda cow can't carry them to the finish line. Not scheduling a game was a big mistake by the Cards.
Well it is the year of the Cicadas so theres that
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
running the numbers on Region 11... and man Watterson is in a pickle.
if Marion-Franklin beats South then it looks like Watterson can make it in, but it is going to be tight....
if South beats Marion-Franklin, then Watterson needs to beat Hartley and get a little bit of help
The most likely happenings is South beats M-F and Hartley beats BW. Watty could be on the outside looking in...
if Marion-Franklin beats South then it looks like Watterson can make it in, but it is going to be tight....
if South beats Marion-Franklin, then Watterson needs to beat Hartley and get a little bit of help
The most likely happenings is South beats M-F and Hartley beats BW. Watty could be on the outside looking in...
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
Watterson can look back to the week 2 home loss to Bellefontaine 14-7. If you are Watterson you can not lose that game and expect to get in.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Probably going to need the CCL vs GCL Co-Ed scheduling alliance rebooted (for the third time) going forward.
Playing more intraregional games in non-league play (more than what your 3-opponent conference can offer) is like the board game RISK. What a disaster if they miss.
Confused by your last sentence. Are you saying Granville should be worried. If I remember Granville really took it to watterson. Going off what I read in paper Desales should of lost that game. Very surprising
Apologies, the last be should be see. Granville will not be excited to see them again. Granville is very good and they will be confident but I guarantee they would rather see South instead of Watterson.
Watterson played well but DeSales turned it on when they needed it most. It turned their season around, by finally turning a close game into a win. DeSales was also without numerous starters that game per the online radio broadcast. If I remember said like 4 kids got their first varsity start in that game.