Cavs 2023-24

footballsalads43 said:
I did see a trade proposal that involves Darius Garland for Jalen Suggs…. I must say that would be intriguing. Suggs would be a 6’5 guard who plays D well and is a great ball handler, but not as good of a shooter as Garland but can hit shots. But with Mitchell’s scoring I don’t think it matters. I quite liked that proposal
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Personally I believe DG > JS … I think the Cavs would need more to make this trade (Orlando does have two 1st round picks) … (or) I would like to get Wendell Carter (for Okoro) also to give the Cavs a 3 way big man rotation of Allen, Mobley, and Carter … I always liked Suggs … think he is a winner, his numerous injuries concerns me … I think he would pair well with Mitchell

Suggs & Carter for DG & Okoro … gives them lineups: Allen, Mobley, Hunter, Mitchell, Suggs … bench: Carter, Wade, Tyson, Strus, and Porter … Tyson & Porter need to develop (and I think they will) into key role players … I think they lose Jerome, but will resign Merrill
 
footballsalads43 said:
I did see a trade proposal that involves Darius Garland for Jalen Suggs…. I must say that would be intriguing. Suggs would be a 6’5 guard who plays D well and is a great ball handler, but not as good of a shooter as Garland but can hit shots. But with Mitchell’s scoring I don’t think it matters. I quite liked that proposal
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I like that also. I love Garland's game but Suggs is what we need, size and physicality in the backcourt, if he can stay healthy.
 
Suggs health gives me pause. From all other aspects, yes. His health? No. He is the right type of player needed, though. Sure, you give up some scoring from the position if you replace Darius with Suggs, or McDaniel, etc., but Donovan can feel free to take a few more shots AND it should ideally give Mobley more touches. They might lose Darius, but might not take a team dip in point production at all.

I’d be strongly thinking about moving Allen for a thicker big man, too.
 
cjb5656 said:
Suggs health gives me pause. From all other aspects, yes. His health? No. He is the right type of player needed, though. Sure, you give up some scoring from the position if you replace Darius with Suggs, or McDaniel, etc., but Donovan can feel free to take a few more shots AND it should ideally give Mobley more touches. They might lose Darius, but might not take a team dip in point production at all.

I’d be strongly thinking about moving Allen for a thicker big man, too.
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I would not move Allen … just get a bigger backup C/PF (Carter?) … then play Hunter at SF … have Strus come off the bench at 2/3 … makes the entire team bigger … play Allen most of the time, except when facing a more sturdy big, then play the backup more.
 
joesports said:
Personally I believe DG > JS … I think the Cavs would need more to make this trade (Orlando does have two 1st round picks) … (or) I would like to get Wendell Carter (for Okoro) also to give the Cavs a 3 way big man rotation of Allen, Mobley, and Carter … I always liked Suggs … think he is a winner, his numerous injuries concerns me … I think he would pair well with Mitchell

Suggs & Carter for DG & Okoro … gives them lineups: Allen, Mobley, Hunter, Mitchell, Suggs … bench: Carter, Wade, Tyson, Strus, and Porter … Tyson & Porter need to develop (and I think they will) into key role players … I think they lose Jerome, but will resign Merrill
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I absolutely agree it will have to be more that Orlando gives up. DG is a 2x all-star efficient point guard. Suggs is a winning player but he’s not on DG's level, DG is the better overall player, I agree. But Suggs IMO is a much better fit next to Mitchell than DG is. But Suggs is a bit injury prone. Carter would be a great pick-up, we desperately need a backup center that isn't Tristian Thompson. Personally a trade that looks like: DG and Okoro for Suggs, Carter Jr. and a lightly protected 1st round pick... Thats a decent offer, I don't hate it.
 
cjb5656 said:
If I knew Scottie Barnes was healthy I would move Mitchell for him and move Allen for a younger big man who is more physical, but not necessarily as polished as Allen. I’m trying to extend the window and gain some size. Barnes, Mobley, Garland and a 23/24 year old big guy gives me more years to get it right.
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There is no window if you trade Mitchell. All these guys are signed, the window is already extended.
 
Garland has surgery on the sprained toe that was giving him so much issues. Apparently, with a 4-5 month recovery timeline.

Two thoughts: 1. I guess that toe was a bigger problem than the team let on. And Garland did try to play through it as much as he did. 2. I wonder if this hurts his trade value? He's expected back by time for training camp, according to the team, so it theoretically won't affect his 25-26 season.
 
soccerdad72 said:
Garland has surgery on the sprained toe that was giving him so much issues. Apparently, with a 4-5 month recovery timeline.

Two thoughts: 1. I guess that toe was a bigger problem than the team let on. And Garland did try to play through it as much as he did. 2. I wonder if this hurts his trade value? He's expected back by time for training camp, according to the team, so it theoretically won't affect his 25-26 season.
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So much for the dipsheeets like brian that called him soft.

As we've learned, Nov/Dec are not too meaningful for teams that have a decent degree of certainty for making the playoffs. I think he still has trade value for many clubs.
 
wolves82 said:
So much for the dipsheeets like brian that called him soft.

As we've learned, Nov/Dec are not too meaningful for teams that have a decent degree of certainty for making the playoffs. I think he still has trade value for many clubs.
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I don’t know that soft is the right term for him. His issue is his physique. He’s simply built very slight, so he cannot be a very physical player. Allen would be better classified as soft, due to his physical presence often disappearing inside during the playoffs.

Even 100% healthy Darius presents a dilemma for the Cavs defense. He’s going to get consistently exploited. Ideally, you want a taller, thicker guard out there with Mitchell.
 
cjb5656 said:
I don’t know that soft is the right term for him. His issue is his physique. He’s simply built very slight, so he cannot be a very physical player. Allen would be better classified as soft, due to his physical presence often disappearing inside during the playoffs.
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I don’t understand the hate shown toward Allen on here or from one of the guys on the radio … what exactly did he do to get that soft label … is it because he had broken ribs last year and sat out the last half of the playoffs … or was it his performance in this years playoffs … where he averaged 13.4 ppg and 8.4 rebound per game … on 6.8 shots per game (and shot 72%) … the 7th most shots on the team … not sure where a guy how really gets no touches (other than a few pick and rolls) on offense is the “problem” with this team … on the defensive end, Myles Turner, the main guy he guarded averaged 16.2 ppg … a whopping 0.6 ppg more than his average … and 7.2 rebounds per game … to me he is hardly the issue with this team … for a 5th option on this team IMO does a fairly good job … and has a very good … team attitude … never whines about playing time or touches … JA is dependent on his teammates for his offense … he scores (at a very high %) when his teammates feed him … and not as much when his teammates don’t … I just don’t understand why he is the one taking the blame … the blame to me for the last two years in the playoffs is their surprisingly poor 3 point shooting … mainly by the guards who shot 23% this year from three … just don’t understand the hate shown towards him??
 
joesports said:
I don’t understand the hate shown toward Allen on here or from one of the guys on the radio … what exactly did he do to get that soft label … is it because he had broken ribs last year and sat out the last half of the playoffs … or was it his performance in this years playoffs … where he averaged 13.4 ppg and 8.4 rebound per game … on 6.8 shots per game (and shot 72%) … the 7th most shots on the team … not sure where a guy how really gets no touches (other than a few pick and rolls) on offense is the “problem” with this team … on the defensive end, Myles Turner, the main guy he guarded averaged 16.2 ppg … a whopping 0.6 ppg more than his average … and 7.2 rebounds per game … to me he is hardly the issue with this team … for a 5th option on this team IMO does a fairly good job … and has a very good … team attitude … never whines about playing time or touches … JA is dependent on his teammates for his offense … he scores (at a very high %) when his teammates feed him … and not as much when his teammates don’t … I just don’t understand why he is the one taking the blame … the blame to me for the last two years in the playoffs is their surprisingly poor 3 point shooting … mainly by the guards who shot 23% this year from three … just don’t understand the hate shown towards him??
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There’s no hatred toward Allen. He does what he does, but, much like with Darius, it doesn’t translate well to how the playoffs are played and officiated. He is a finesse big man who can’t shoot outside. Mobley is a finesse big man with skills. Two finesse big men is not a recipe for playoff success, especially with two undersized guards. And it’s not like Hunter, Merrill, Wade, Strus, etc., are bangers. I’m sure they can turn in another 60+ win regular season if they run it back, but don’t expect great success in the playoffs.
 
cjb5656 said:
There’s no hatred toward Allen. He does what he does, but, much like with Darius, it doesn’t translate well to how the playoffs are played and officiated. He is a finesse big man who can’t shoot outside. Mobley is a finesse big man with skills. Two finesse big men is not a recipe for playoff success, especially with two undersized guards. And it’s not like Hunter, Merrill, Wade, Strus, etc., are bangers. I’m sure they can turn in another 60+ win regular season if they run it back, but don’t expect great success in the playoffs.
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I think the easy fix is to get a backup big like Brook Lopez … him and Mobley together more … and Allen and Wade together more … move Hunter into full time small forward and make Strus the backup big guard …

and think Mobley needs to develop a mid range game … 15/20 ft jumper that would make teams come out and guard him … Lopez’s shooting would open also up space for Mobley …

I also think Merrill and Jerome are gone due to financial issues … which means Porter and Tyson needs to step up … I think Tyson is gritty and would help provide some toughness.

The problem with this plan is getting Lopez or someone like him … that is where a trade of Garland for Suggs comes in … because they could get a little more than Suggs (like 1st round pick or da Silva) … and take that a flip it for a backup big.

Bigs: Allen, Mobley, Lopez like, Wade
2 & 3’s - Mitchell, Hunter, Tyson, Strus (trade Okoro to help get under the apron)
PG - Suggs & Porter

To me this gives you the best of both worlds toughness & finesse … a little worried about shooting & ball handling … but the fit is better to me.
 
joesports said:
I think the easy fix is to get a backup big like Brook Lopez … him and Mobley together more … and Allen and Wade together more … move Hunter into full time small forward and make Strus the backup big guard …

and think Mobley needs to develop a mid range game … 15/20 ft jumper that would make teams come out and guard him … Lopez’s shooting would open also up space for Mobley …

I also think Merrill and Jerome are gone due to financial issues … which means Porter and Tyson needs to step up … I think Tyson is gritty and would help provide some toughness.

The problem with this plan is getting Lopez or someone like him … that is where a trade of Garland for Suggs comes in … because they could get a little more than Suggs (like 1st round pick or da Silva) … and take that a flip it for a backup big.

Bigs: Allen, Mobley, Lopez like, Wade
2 & 3’s - Mitchell, Hunter, Tyson, Strus (trade Okoro to help get under the apron)
PG - Suggs & Porter

To me this gives you the best of both worlds toughness & finesse … a little worried about shooting & ball handling … but the fit is better to me.
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You’re looking in the right direction. Heck, I love to see the Core Four light up the scoreboard game after game. I love the prolific offense. Who doesn’t? I would not trade any of them if I thought they could win a championship together. I don’t believe they can, though. The refs swallow their whistles in the playoffs and that is not good for the Cavs as currently constructed.
 
cjb5656 said:
You’re looking in the right direction. Heck, I love to see the Core Four light up the scoreboard game after game. I love the prolific offense. Who doesn’t? I would not trade any of them if I thought they could win a championship together. I don’t believe they can, though. The refs swallow their whistles in the playoffs and that is not good for the Cavs as currently constructed.
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I understand what you are saying … but I also think that the Cavs health (especially Garland’s) played a big part in their downfall … and think they could still be good and a championship contender with minor tweaks … much like OKC did last year … when they (a 1st seed) lost in the second round like the Cavs did this year … but I understand trying to make the team have a better fit … to me the biggest need is a real backup big … like Lopez (or Bobby Portis, Kelly Olynyk, Jonas Valanciunas, Steve Adams, or Andre Drummond to name a few) … this allows Hunter to move to starting full time SF and Strus to the bench where I think he would be great playing 2/3 … giving great energy of the bench … makes them bigger and “tougher” IMO
 
joesports said:
I understand what you are saying … but I also think that the Cavs health (especially Garland’s) played a big part in their downfall … and think they could still be good and a championship contender with minor tweaks … much like OKC did last year … when they (a 1st seed) lost in the second round like the Cavs did this year … but I understand trying to make the team have a better fit … to me the biggest need is a real backup big … like Lopez (or Bobby Portis, Kelly Olynyk, Jonas Valanciunas, Steve Adams, or Andre Drummond to name a few) … this allows Hunter to move to starting full time SF and Strus to the bench where I think he would be great playing 2/3 … giving great energy of the bench … makes them bigger and “tougher” IMO
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100%. The Pacers would not have been able to guard a healthy Garland with their bigger guards, much like DG cannot guard the Pacers. It would have been a different series if DG was 100%.
 
wolves82 said:
100%. The Pacers would not have been able to guard a healthy Garland with their bigger guards, much like DG cannot guard the Pacers. It would have been a different series if DG was 100%.
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It’s possible they could’ve beaten Indiana with a healthy DG, so I’m not going to criticize the Cavs if they decide to run it back. I’ve heard some well respected people say that’s the way to go. I’ve heard many more respected people say the two smalls and two finesse bigs aren’t a good recipe for playoff success. It’s a tough corner in which to be.
 
Garland is not soft. A little injury prone, maybe, but the guy played through a broken damn jaw and went through a stretch of an all liquid diet. This year, he played with an injury requiring surgery. Iffy defense, okay. Undersized, Okay. However, the only thing soft is the addled brain of anyone who would deem him soft.
 
clarkgriswold said:
Garland is not soft. A little injury prone, maybe, but the guy played through a broken damn jaw and went through a stretch of an all liquid diet. This year, he played with an injury requiring surgery. Iffy defense, okay. Undersized, Okay. However, the only thing soft is the addled brain of anyone who would deem him soft.
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I agree completely … they lost, not because they were soft … but because their 3 point shooting was terrible … and Indiana was hot … that simple … soft is a false narrative.
 
joesports said:
I agree completely … they lost, not because they were soft … but because their 3 point shooting was terrible … and Indiana was hot … that simple … soft is a false narrative.
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It's an easy narrative. That's why it's so popular. It doesn't require much thought and if is easy to parrot.
 
clarkgriswold said:
It's an easy narrative. That's why it's so popular. It doesn't require much thought and if is easy to parrot.
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It’s an easy narrative because other than Mitchell and Thompson they have nobody who can push around anyone, and Donovan is typically a few inches shorter than many who guard him and vice versa. It’s a real issue. Can they outshoot and outscore it? That’s the gamble.
 
The Magic just swung a deal for exactly the type of player the Cavs need. They got Bane from Memphis, the ideal wing. Can score, is physical and can D up most anyone. So the Cavs can’t just look at who might be ahead of them, such as Indiana, Boston and NY, but also teams that can pass them up like Orlando (especially after this deal) and Detroit (if they can continue to improve and swing a deal of their own). And Philly still has Maxey and Embiid, while Milwaukee still has Giannis and Lillard. Huge decision for the Cavs whether to run it back or swing a big deal.
 
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