Caitlin Clark

eastisbest said:
What's on the otherside of the teeter-totter, you don't think is being recognized? She's a rookie. She's learning the pro game. Who has denied that?

Turn-overs can be individual mistakes. They can be team mistakes. Most even casually knowing the game can see these numbers are due to a team growing, not just an individual.

I mentioned that she is third in the league in minutes played. Setting asside the fatiguing nature of the minutes alone, neither of those ahead of her have less than three years experience and none handle the ball as much as the PG.

The current consternation might be, not participating in the 3-pt contest. "Larry" wouldn't refuse. That's the comparison seems to be popular. I can see a tactic to it, a way to show her worth on attendance by NOT being in the competition. Ionescu gave her the excuse sort of. I personally don't see anyone getting hurt participating in a 3-pt contest and that's what Clark made her fame on, not assists. I can see opting out of the game on the bet that Clark is the first Olymipic alternate but not the contest that says put-up or shut-up and is what the fans really want to see. They want ice, not fire.

Is that enough to balance the teeter-totter for you? :D
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Like any other stats, there are circumstances. My point is, why only report on certain stats? Just saw an article where it states she's one of the league leaders in 3 point shots made. That's fine but if you're shooing more than most, that's not a good thing. And you can't applaud the assists, and not even mention turnovers? Will she get better, yes, more than likely, but the league will also get used to her game and continue to game plan against her. Should be fun to watch.
 
14Red said:
I think it's very difficult to compare LeBron and Clark at this point. I respect the heck out of LeBron as he is "one of the" greatest players of all time, not "the" best as most honks keep saying. My issue with LeBron is he left to go group up with guys to win, where as most greats in the past won where they started. To me that's HUGE. I am far from the only person that doesn't like LeBron's personality. Basketball player skill wise, father, grinder - all top shelf. We'll never see a guy play at his level for that long, never again.

Now Clark is a really good rookie player in the WNBA. Outside of that, the comparisons are over. Has she lifted the Fever? A little. Probably not anywhere near what most thought. She's got great vision and is a terrific passer, she didn't have to be that in college because she could get her own shots off. But her shooting has been under par, and she struggles on defense. Can she lift a team to be a winner? I think we already know that's likely not going to happen. Just do me a favor and look at the entire body of work, not just the headlines put out by the WNBA media.
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The headlines for most of the season was that she was a bust. Rational people understood she is a rookie with no off season being thrown to the wolves. Now that's she's had time to adjust to the speed and skill of the next level she's flourishing.
 
y2h said:
The headlines for most of the season was that she was a bust. Rational people understood she is a rookie with no off season being thrown to the wolves. Now that's she's had time to adjust to the speed and skill of the next level she's flourishing.
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What media have you been looking at? She's been handled with kid gloves by most. You rarely see a cross word about her.
 
14Red said:
So regardless of performance, as long an attendance and ratings are good, that's all that matters?
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It matters in the players purses, which is what matters the most. WNBA just signed a new year 11 tv contract. You think that it’s just coincidence that Clark is a rookie?
 
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Cedar_Point said:
It matters in the players purses, which is what matters the most. WNBA just signed a new year 11 tv contract. You think that it’s just coincidence that Clark is a rookie?
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Not at all, she's the cash cow of the league and they are banking it. Is that a separate WNBA deal? I thought they were bundled with the NBA tv deal? I think it's also noted that the WNBA is still losing money, even with Clark on board. Remember, they forced their way into charter flights so that adds to the expense.

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14Red said:
Not at all, she's the cash cow of the league and they are banking it. Is that a separate WNBA deal? I thought they were bundled with the NBA tv deal? I think it's also noted that the WNBA is still losing money, even with Clark on board. Remember, they forced their way into charter flights so that adds to the expense.

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Welp the current media rights deal is for only $50 mil a year, so if you do the math they will eventually be making money. Thats assuming everything else stays the same
 
Cedar_Point said:
Welp the current media rights deal is for only $50 mil a year, so if you do the math they will eventually be making money. Thats assuming everything else stays the same
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I think the WNBA is definitely on the upswing. However, I do feel the initial crush will wane. Clark is going to be a good player, solid player and the leagues' most recognized player. But I don't know that she's going to lift her team to championships and be the competitive impact that many thought she'd be. She'll need to be paired with a couple other stars to win.
 
This we know for sure, Team USA will look drastically different in 2028. I really feel there was a group of players on the current team that just won that did not want Clark on the team. Now I contend she wasn't necessarily good enough to make the team anyway, but certainly NBC and the media would have loved for her to be on the team for the additional notoriety.
Speaking of Team USA/ and the WNBA, this A'ja Wilson is phenomenal, and is relatively obscure unless you're a true WNBA follower. Her and Brianna Stewart dominated the Olympic games and Wilson's accomplishments are incredible. Why is Wilson unknown?
 
14Red said:
This we know for sure, Team USA will look drastically different in 2028. I really feel there was a group of players on the current team that just won that did not want Clark on the team. Now I contend she wasn't necessarily good enough to make the team anyway, but certainly NBC and the media would have loved for her to be on the team for the additional notoriety.
Speaking of Team USA/ and the WNBA, this A'ja Wilson is phenomenal, and is relatively obscure unless you're a true WNBA follower. Her and Brianna Stewart dominated the Olympic games and Wilson's accomplishments are incredible. Why is Wilson unknown?
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Check the WNBA TV ratings and you will have your answer. It is the same reason that we heard a lot of names for incredible swimmers and track athletes for the first time during the Olympics. No exposure, and very few people care about their sport outside of the Olympics.
 
wolves82 said:
Check the WNBA TV ratings and you will have your answer. It is the same reason that we heard a lot of names for incredible swimmers and track athletes for the first time during the Olympics. No exposure, and very few people care about their sport outside of the Olympics.
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I know the WNBA has been on TV longer than a minute, but I get what you are saying. So is the "Clark effect" more artificial because she's a white girl from the midwest? I'll guarantee the ratings in Iowa for WNBA games was next to nil.
 
14Red said:
Has she lifted the Fever? A little. ... look at the entire body of work, not just the headlines put out by the WNBA media.
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You might benefit the same advice. She's lifted that team way more than a little doing as you point out, something she didn't have to do in college. That's rather amazing and worth every headline.

Agreed that it is difficult (and stupid) to try and compare with James but let's look at reality there too. Yes Cleveland's record changed dramatically but James wasn't their only aquisition. They revised over half the team that first year and brought in an all-star Boozer the 2nd. Indiana Fever pretty much stood pat, making little adjustment.
 
14Red said:
I know the WNBA has been on TV longer than a minute, but I get what you are saying. So is the "Clark effect" more artificial because she's a white girl from the midwest? I'll guarantee the ratings in Iowa for WNBA games was next to nil.
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eastisbest said:
You might benefit the same advice. She's lifted that team way more than a little doing as you point out, something she didn't have to do in college. That's rather amazing and worth every headline.

Agreed that it is difficult (and stupid) to try and compare with James but let's look at reality there too. Yes Cleveland's record changed dramatically but James wasn't their only aquisition. They revised over half the team that first year and brought in an all-star Boozer the 2nd. Indiana Fever pretty much stood pat, making little adjustment.
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I'll say this, the MARKETING budget has increased dramatically. Most of this push from the WNBA is marketing driven. And yes, the Fever will have to bring in alot of help to push the Fever up.
 
Caught the first quarter of the game. It's really like watching old man ball. At least the Fever team. Rotation, passing, knowing where people are. Big difference from where they were at the beginning of the year. Now able to play a game that uses their skill set. Their coach took heat from Clark fans for not using her more for scoring. Getting her team able to utilize Clark's game management skills panned out and now even works when the sub comes in.

Looking at box score, Clark must have picked up the scoring after I turned off. Probably wouldn't have been as interesting a game for me but watching her pass through and around three Olympians was kind of fun.
 
eastisbest said:
Caught the first quarter of the game. It's really like watching old man ball. At least the Fever team. Rotation, passing, knowing where people are. Big difference from where they were at the beginning of the year. Now able to play a game that uses their skill set. Their coach took heat from Clark fans for not using her more for scoring. Getting her team able to utilize Clark's game management skills panned out and now even works when the sub comes in.

Looking at box score, Clark must have picked up the scoring after I turned off. Probably wouldn't have been as interesting a game for me but watching her pass through and around three Olympians was kind of fun.
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Taking a pause was great. Imo That's a different team now.
 
Just had another triple double tonight, 24 points 10 rebounds 10 assists in a win over Los Angeles. Fever (worst team in the league last year) have won 5 straight and 7 of 8 and are now two games over .500 after starting the year 1-8. Here are some of her stat lines over the last month.

August 16- 29 points 10 assists 5 rebounds on 8-16 shooting in a win over Phoenix
August 18- 23 points 9 assists 5 rebounds on 9-19 shooting in a win over Seattle
August 30- 31 points 12 assists 4 rebounds on 8-14 shooting in a win over Chicago
September 1- 28 points 12 assists 4 rebounds on 10-19 shooting in a win over Dallas
September 4- 24 points 10 rebounds 5 assists on 8-17 shooting in a win over Los Angeles

The Caitlin era in women's basketball is officially here and the rest of the league had better get used to it.
 
eastisbest said:
Caught the first quarter of the game. It's really like watching old man ball. At least the Fever team. Rotation, passing, knowing where people are. Big difference from where they were at the beginning of the year. Now able to play a game that uses their skill set. Their coach took heat from Clark fans for not using her more for scoring. Getting her team able to utilize Clark's game management skills panned out and now even works when the sub comes in.

Looking at box score, Clark must have picked up the scoring after I turned off. Probably wouldn't have been as interesting a game for me but watching her pass through and around three Olympians was kind of fun.
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She also had to learnhow to be a professional. yeah, the fever sucked prior, but still had players who can succeed if put into the right position and CC was coming from a college program where she had to do it all pretty much.
During the break she had time to relax, reflect, recharge, and she is learning to trust her teammakes and making everyone better.
 
Thavoice said:
She also had to learnhow to be a professional. yeah, the fever sucked prior, but still had players who can succeed if put into the right position and CC was coming from a college program where she had to do it all pretty much.
During the break she had time to relax, reflect, recharge, and she is learning to trust her teammakes and making everyone better.
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I honestly think it might be the other way around. Did you see the highlight clip on ESPN from the last Fever game? Those passes, particularly to Boston were dime. Way above the WNBA curve. I think her teammates are finally catching up on how to look for and receive those passes in motion without fumbling them.

I'm not sold that this will raise the level of the game from ground up though. Maybe other places or maybe at the lower levels but I'm not seeing a rise in participation at the local high school level and we do have a couple that matriculated out of here, in the WNBA. They need go on a barn-storming to reach into the smaller cities before the spark dims.
 
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Reese scores a 3pt with 3 minutes to go. Leaves game well in hand, high fiving all the way. Sits rest of game, smiling on the bench. But has an in-game wrist injury that ends her season as her team is fighting to stay in play-off race? Maybe. Kid seems a bit of a head case.
 
eastisbest said:
I honestly think it might be the other way around. Did you see the highlight clip on ESPN from the last Fever game? Those passes, particularly to Boston were dime. Way above the WNBA curve. I think her teammates are finally catching up on how to look for and receive those passes in motion without fumbling them.

......
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:) Pistol Pete's passes bouncing off his LSU teammates heads as they stare at the rim.
 
Cedar_Point said:
Crickets from the Clark is overhyped crowd
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I've been paying attention. I think Clark and the Fever need to thank USA basketball for not choosing her to be on the Olympic team. It seems like that 3 weeks off was just what she needed. She's played very well coming off the Olympic break. The shooting is still up and down and the turnovers are still off the charts, but it's been determined she's going to have the ball in her hands ALOT. Funny how she's gone from a big time scorer to more of a facilitator. The big thing moving forward is can the Fever beat the good teams with her role being like this.
The numbers, the triple doubles are a product of the system. The WNBA's scoring is way up from even a few years ago, more shots, more points, more missed shots, Clark is playing 35+ minutes per game so it's going to be hard for her not to be pushing a triple double nearly every game.
 
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