Ask The Ref?

chito said:
Go to the 15:00 minute mark of this video for a through explanation
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After watching the video.
Ball is on own 20. QB runs around and is outside the elible lines for intentional grounding. He is on the 5 yd line, stops, throws the ball, it goes out of bounds at the 12 yd line and into the stands to the where the 50 yd line projects. All good right? As long as it goes past the 20 yd line at some point?
 
MitSulHer said:
After watching the video.
Ball is on own 20. QB runs around and is outside the elible lines for intentional grounding. He is on the 5 yd line, stops, throws the ball, it goes out of bounds at the 12 yd line and into the stands to the where the 50 yd line projects. All good right? As long as it goes past the 20 yd line at some point?
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Correct.... That 20yd line for grounding purposes extends outside the boundary line infinitely.
 
AllSports12 said:
Correct.... That 20yd line for grounding purposes extends outside the boundary line infinitely.
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This one still gets me. Should coaches have their players on the sideline knock the ball down if it is approaching the line of scrimmage. So if the ball crosses the sideline at the 40 Yard Line but needs to make it to the 50, what if a player on the sideline knocks the ball down at the 48?
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
This one still gets me. Should coaches have their players on the sideline knock the ball down if it is approaching the line of scrimmage. So if the ball crosses the sideline at the 40 Yard Line but needs to make it to the 50, what if a player on the sideline knocks the ball down at the 48?
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In this case the officials will judge whether or not the ball would have crossed the line of scrimmage extended absent the ball either being intentionally or unintentionally by a player.
 
chs1971 said:
Where does it say that?
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That what we have been instructed to pass along to our officials.

Allowing this to prevent a pass from meeting the rule requirement of the ball passing the LOS extended destroys the spirit of the rule as well as the purpose of the rule.
 
AllSports12 said:
That what we have been instructed to pass along to our officials.

Allowing this to prevent a pass from meeting the rule requirement of the ball passing the LOS extended destroys the spirit of the rule as well as the purpose of the rule.
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I think we are putting too much responsibility on the Refs.
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
I think we are putting too much responsibility on the Refs.
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I have no problem with the responsibility.... It's what we signed up for.

However, I don't like the new Intentional Grounding rule, particularly the Ohio interpretation that if a defender is in contact with the passer, you cannot have Intentional Grounding.

We are going to get a ton of grief on that.

That said, I will officiate it, teach it, and preach it as the powers that be wish it to be officiated. (just because I/we don't like something doesn't mean I/we get to do it my/our way)
 
AllSports12 said:
I have no problem with the responsibility.... It's what we signed up for.

However, I don't like the new Intentional Grounding rule, particularly the Ohio interpretation that if a defender is in contact with the passer, you cannot have Intentional Grounding.

We are going to get a ton of grief on that.

That said, I will officiate it, teach it, and preach it as the powers that be wish it to be officiated. (just because I/we don't like something doesn't mean I/we get to do it my/our way)
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So I didn’t know that if a defender is in contact with a passer, there can’t be intentional grounding.
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
So I didn’t know that if a defender is in contact with a passer, there can’t be intentional grounding.
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That was told to us in the state meeting and the clinics I attended. All benefit will be given to the passer.

Also, the player will be judged to be outside the Free Blocking Zone, and no longer in jeopardy of being guilty of Intentional grounding if he takes three lateral steps from where he was when when lined up behind the center.

That's going to be another fire starter until people get used to the new rule.
 
AllSports12 said:
That was told to us in the state meeting and the clinics I attended. All benefit will be given to the passer.

Also, the player will be judged to be outside the Free Blocking Zone, and no longer in jeopardy of being guilty of Intentional grounding if he takes three lateral steps from where he was when when lined up behind the center.

That's going to be another fire starter until people get used to the new rule.
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When does the contract have to take place?
 
AllSports12 said:
That was told to us in the state meeting and the clinics I attended. All benefit will be given to the passer.

Also, the player will be judged to be outside the Free Blocking Zone, and no longer in jeopardy of being guilty of Intentional grounding if he takes three lateral steps from where he was when when lined up behind the center.

That's going to be another fire starter until people get used to the new rule.
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Three lateral steps? As in walking? From a standing start that's less than three yards.
 
chs1971 said:
Three lateral steps? As in walking? From a standing start that's less than three yards.
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Straight from the powers that be.

My educated guess is the player with the ball won't be walking during this live ball....

Again, whether anyone likes it or not, great lengths are being taken to avoid subjecting the passer to extra hits.
 
AllSports12 said:
Straight from the powers that be.

My educated guess is the player with the ball won't be walking during this live ball....

Again, whether anyone likes it or not, great lengths are being taken to avoid subjecting the passer to extra hits.
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A QB under pressure will move in any direction possible to avoid the sack. Maybe laterally, more likely diagonally away from the LOS. Maybe he will get outside the tackle before he throws the ball. (Yeah, I know, not the language, but to get outside the free blocking zone the passer will need to get at least as wide as a tight end.) No matter where the ball is released the coach will yell "He took three steps! He took three steps!" Then we have to explain the definition of lateral and the coach will wonder why we are talking about a pitch to a running back.

I am not opposed to the rule change, I like it,, but three steps is not going to get the passers body past the free blocking zone. It just isn't. (I've looked at game film from last year to check myself.) It will give coaches and fans something to yell about. We already had to judge where the limits of the free blocking zone end, why add this? It isn't accurate and it doesn't help us.

I know officials in Michigan are getting the same three steps information, so I'm guessing this is coming from the national level. Is this the NCAA or NFL rule of thumb? Is that where this comes from?

Sorry for the rant
 
AllSports12 said:
See post #2804 ... re: "fire starter"

See post #2802 ... re: "just because we don't like something"
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I hear 'ya, and I liked the fire-starter comment the first time.

Do you know what the NCAA criteria or mechanic is for outside the tackle box?

I always go to the face-to-face state mtg. but my foot is in a cast and I hate to ask my wife to drive me. The online state mtg. has almost nothing about the rule change. Very disappointing.

You can ignore me if you want to.
 
chs1971 said:
Do you know what the NCAA criteria or mechanic is for outside the tackle box?
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The width of tackle box extends 5 yards from the snapper on either side.

Not sure of the judgment criteria used. I suspect it's very similar as the focus is on protecting the QB's
chs1971 said:
I always go to the face-to-face state mtg. but my foot is in a cast and I hate to ask my wife to drive me.
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Mine was face-to-face with Dr. Maurer. He's the one who stated "three steps". Beau also mentioned three steps in the summer at a clinic.

I hate on-line meeting, clinics, classes.... etc.... I've seen the teaching modules for the football class. It's someone reading text that's on the screen verbatim. There is little or no editorial discussion. (and obviously no real time Q&A) No real life discussions/examples of plays that would help hammer home a point being made to the students. Little case play and video discussion. I think it's a giant step backwards in teaching the new official's classes. Many, many good instructors are no longer involved in the process across all the sports.

It's frustrating to see.
chs1971 said:
The online state mtg. has almost nothing about the rule change. Very disappointing.
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This change will be a huge source of griping this year. Will take a few years for most to get used to it.
 
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AllSports12 said:
The width of tackle box extends 5 yards from the snapper on either side.

Not sure of the judgment criteria used. I suspect it's very similar as the focus is on protecting the QB's

Mine was face-to-face with Dr. Maurer. He's the one who stated "three steps". Beau also mentioned three steps in the summer at a clinic.

I hate on-line meeting, clinics, classes.... etc.... I've seen the teaching modules for the football class. It's someone reading text that's on the screen verbatim. There is little or no editorial discussion. (and obviously no real time Q&A) No real life discussions/examples of plays that would help hammer home a point being made to the students. Little case play and video discussion. I think it's a giant step backwards in teaching the new official's classes. Many, many good instructors are no longer involved in the process across all the sports.

It's frustrating to see.

This change will be a huge source of griping this year. Will take a few years for most to get used to it.
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I agree, but welcome to the brave new world.

Online classes and meetings can be pretty bad or good. People need to step up and help. If we are going to online instruction maybe we need a mentoring program that goes with it.

If those 3 steps are a suggested aid or rule of thumb only I'll feel better about it.
 
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Watching some scrimmage video.

On a legal forward pass play, A72's right foot is beyond the expanded neutral zone. Most of him is still in the neutral zone. Is he an ineligible downfield, or is he still in the neutral zone?

If by rule he is an ineligible downfield, are you calling that?
 
chs1971 said:
Watching some scrimmage video.

On a legal forward pass play, A72's right foot is beyond the expanded neutral zone. Most of him is still in the neutral zone. Is he an ineligible downfield, or is he still in the neutral zone?

If by rule he is an ineligible downfield, are you calling that?
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For me….

This seems to be an “if in doubt” play.

it’s going to be tough to see the position of the play and the release of the ball at the same time.

Because of that….. I’m passing on a foul here.
 
In 1972 there was a situation where a DB intercepted a pass three yards in his own end zone and returned it for a touchdown. That is now considered a dead ball, correct?
 
WSAImpact said:
In 1972 there was a situation where a DB intercepted a pass three yards in his own end zone and returned it for a touchdown. That is now considered a dead ball, correct?
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This is a dead ball on a try or in overtime. During normal play, this is a live ball.
 
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