Ask The Ref?

Team A is kicking the ball off after scoring a field goal. There is 3 seconds left in the game. Team A does a high short bloop kick. Team B waives for a fair catch. Team B drops the ball. Clock begins to run when ball is dropped. Team B recovers but now no time is left on the clock. Refs huddle and say since the player waived for a fair catch the ball became dead and there should be 3 seconds put back on the clock. Is this the correct call?
 
QB A1 in shotgun formation claps his hands, the center doesn’t snap the ball and B encroaches. Is it a foul on A1 for simulating the snap or on B for encroachment? If B doesn’t encroach is it a foul on A1?
 
Team A is kicking the ball off after scoring a field goal. There is 3 seconds left in the game. Team A does a high short bloop kick. Team B waives for a fair catch. Team B drops the ball. Clock begins to run when ball is dropped. Team B recovers but now no time is left on the clock. Refs huddle and say since the player waived for a fair catch the ball became dead and there should be 3 seconds put back on the clock. Is this the correct call?
No
 
QB A1 in shotgun formation claps his hands, the center doesn’t snap the ball and B encroaches. Is it a foul on A1 for simulating the snap or on B for encroachment? If B doesn’t encroach is it a foul on A1?
A QB simply clapping their hands together is not a foul. Clapping the hands in a way that simulates action at the snap is a foul.

A HTBT play. (had to be there)
 
Kickoff from kicking team's own 40 goes out of bounds at R's 25.
Receiving team accepts the penalty.
Ball is spotted at receiving team's 35 on the hash mark closest to the OB sideline.
Correct placement related to the hash mark, i.e. ball is not to be placed at center of field?
 
Last edited:
Kickoff from kicking team's own 40 goes out of bounds at R's 25.
Receiving team accepts the penalty.
Ball is spotted at receiving team's 35 on the hash mark closest to the OB sideline.
Correct placement related to the hash mark, i.e. ball is not to be placed at center of field?
The ball will be placed at the hashmark nearest to the spot where the ball went out of bounds.

Here are the times a team may choose where to place the ball before the ready for play signal .....
- for a try
- for a kickoff
- following a safety
- following a fair catch
- following an awarded fair catch
- following a touchback
- for the start of each series during overtime
 
When the offense scores and Pass Interference is called on the defense, the team that scores gets the choice of taking the penalty on the PAT or kickoff.

In overtime on the same type of play the defense is not punished at all. Provided the score does not end the game, why would the defensive team not be punished in the next OT or next position?
 
When the offense scores and Pass Interference is called on the defense, the team that scores gets the choice of taking the penalty on the PAT or kickoff.

In overtime on the same type of play the defense is not punished at all. Provided the score does not end the game, why would the defensive team not be punished in the next OT or next position?
Not entirely true. If DPI occurs during a scoring play, the penalty can be enforced on the try.

As far as why it's that way?..... You'd have to quiz the coaches.... (collectively)

We don't have a say it in.
 
When the offense scores and Pass Interference is called on the defense, the team that scores gets the choice of taking the penalty on the PAT or kickoff.

In overtime on the same type of play the defense is not punished at all. Provided the score does not end the game, why would the defensive team not be punished in the next OT or next position?
Allsports12 has the correct answer as far as the way it's enforced now. What other option do you want? An award of another touchdown on there next possession in OT? If it were during the game I don't think the team gets another choice to accept the penalty on their next possession if they have already accepted a td on prior one?
 
Allsports12 has the correct answer as far as the way it's enforced now. What other option do you want? An award of another touchdown on there next possession in OT? If it were during the game I don't think the team gets another choice to accept the penalty on their next possession if they have already accepted a td on prior one?
I have seen PI called and they take the 15 yards on the kickoff. If this is OT and team a that scored on the first possession why can't they take it when team b gets the ball and make them start from the 35?
 
Team A informs the officiating crew they intend to kneel. Officiating crew tells Team A to buckle up and play hard as they will not be informing team B of their intentions due to the game still being within one score. Have seen it both ways in the past years including a fake knee (like BG just did) that was whistled dead and a personal foul enforced, defenses go live because a coach didn't inform the crew, and a personal foul called on a defense for going live in a 2 point game. What is the correct enforcement?
 
Team A informs the officiating crew they intend to kneel. Officiating crew tells Team A to buckle up and play hard as they will not be informing team B of their intentions due to the game still being within one score. Have seen it both ways in the past years including a fake knee (like BG just did) that was whistled dead and a personal foul enforced, defenses go live because a coach didn't inform the crew, and a personal foul called on a defense for going live in a 2 point game. What is the correct enforcement?
The rules do not require that the defense stand and do nothing as the offense takes a knee. Players should be told to "Play football. Defend yourself."
 
Team A informs the officiating crew they intend to kneel. Officiating crew tells Team A to buckle up and play hard as they will not be informing team B of their intentions due to the game still being within one score. Have seen it both ways in the past years including a fake knee (like BG just did) that was whistled dead and a personal foul enforced, defenses go live because a coach didn't inform the crew, and a personal foul called on a defense for going live in a 2 point game. What is the correct enforcement?
No official worth their salt will tell a team to quit playing in a 2pt game.

In a blowout……. When a team tells you they are taking a knee, telling the opponent that they are taking a knee and advising them not to play the down hard is accepted protocol at all levels.
 
Not related to play on the field but management of the game.

Do the officials have the right to limit personnel on a sideline for safety reasons? Saw this on tape and think it is a very unsafe situation and maybe the crew should have said something. In the tape I see a baby in a stroller and a mom on the sideline watching a good chunk of a game yards away from the field. Also a player in a wheel chair very close to the field. While not a NFL sideline the action is fast, the kids are big wearing hard pads, and these players are instructed to play to the whistle which means the action carries over past the white lines many times. Nobody under 7 or physically unable to move on their own should ever be on a varsity football sideline, all it takes is that one quick play and that baby could have a 200 lbs. LB running full boar at him/her with nothing but a mom between it and a very serious health situation. In my job I have been on many NFL sidelines and it is insane how fast 300 lbs guys can move with no regard to anything but the job on the field. The guys I worked with gave me a detailed run down of the rules every game with 1A being always watch the action no matter where it is on the field and 1B know where the bail out area is incase the action comes to you.

Could play be stopped and someone speak with the folks to leave the field or is that outside the bounds of the official's responsibilities?

Riverside.JPG
 
No official worth their salt will tell a team to quit playing in a 2pt game.

In a blowout……. When a team tells you they are taking a knee, telling the opponent that they are taking a knee and advising them not to play the down hard is accepted protocol at all levels.
Your thoughts on the dead ball call on the fake knee and the enforcement of unsportsmanlike? Been a few years since I saw that in a city game.
 
I have seen PI called and they take the 15 yards on the kickoff. If this is OT and team a that scored on the first possession why can't they take it when team b gets the ball and make them start from the 35?
Live ball vs deadball fouls are enforced differently, I will defer to Allsport12
 
Live ball vs deadball fouls are enforced differently, I will defer to Allsport12
This isn't a live vs. dead issue. PI is always a live ball foul.

The rule is simple. When the defense commits a foul during a touchdown-scoring play, the offense has the option to enforce the penalty on the try or the kickoff. When there is no kickoff, the only option is the try.

Why can't they take it on the next OT series, you ask? Because until the try has been attempted there's no way of knowing whether or not another OT will be necessary.
 
Not related to play on the field but management of the game.

Do the officials have the right to limit personnel on a sideline for safety reasons? Saw this on tape and think it is a very unsafe situation and maybe the crew should have said something. In the tape I see a baby in a stroller and a mom on the sideline watching a good chunk of a game yards away from the field. Also a player in a wheel chair very close to the field. While not a NFL sideline the action is fast, the kids are big wearing hard pads, and these players are instructed to play to the whistle which means the action carries over past the white lines many times. Nobody under 7 or physically unable to move on their own should ever be on a varsity football sideline, all it takes is that one quick play and that baby could have a 200 lbs. LB running full boar at him/her with nothing but a mom between it and a very serious health situation. In my job I have been on many NFL sidelines and it is insane how fast 300 lbs guys can move with no regard to anything but the job on the field. The guys I worked with gave me a detailed run down of the rules every game with 1A being always watch the action no matter where it is on the field and 1B know where the bail out area is incase the action comes to you.

Could play be stopped and someone speak with the folks to leave the field or is that outside the bounds of the official's responsibilities?

View attachment 22989
At least in grades 7-12, way outside the bounds of our authority and responsibility.
 
This isn't a live vs. dead issue. PI is always a live ball foul.

The rule is simple. When the defense commits a foul during a touchdown-scoring play, the offense has the option to enforce the penalty on the try or the kickoff. When there is no kickoff, the only option is the try.

Why can't they take it on the next OT series, you ask? Because until the try has been attempted there's no way of knowing whether or not another OT will be necessary.
Thanks, that makes good sense!
 
This isn't a live vs. dead issue. PI is always a live ball foul.

The rule is simple. When the defense commits a foul during a touchdown-scoring play, the offense has the option to enforce the penalty on the try or the kickoff. When there is no kickoff, the only option is the try.

Why can't they take it on the next OT series, you ask? Because until the try has been attempted there's no way of knowing whether or not another OT will be necessary.
But they do know if their will be more OT in HS and College.

OT starts Team A gets ball first on their scoring play Team B commits a PI. Regardless of the PAT we know Team B will get the ball. So why can't Team A force Team B to start from the 35 because of PI? Wouldn't that be the same as the enforcement on the kickoff?

In regulation they do not know if the PAT will be good, yet they let it go to the kickoff.

So I will use this example. Team B gets ball first scores and gets the PAT. Team A gets the ball second scores and on the scoring play Team B commits PI. Team A kicks the PAT, so we are tied again. So at that point we know we are going to a second OT.

Typically in the Second OT the opposite happens of the first OT. So Team B would go on offense first. So since PI is 15 yards and OT usually starts on the 20, it would change it into a half the distance so why couldn't Team A start on the 10 for the second OT?
 
But they do know if their will be more OT in HS and College.

OT starts Team A gets ball first on their scoring play Team B commits a PI. Regardless of the PAT we know Team B will get the ball. So why can't Team A force Team B to start from the 35 because of PI? Wouldn't that be the same as the enforcement on the kickoff?

In regulation they do not know if the PAT will be good, yet they let it go to the kickoff.

So I will use this example. Team B gets ball first scores and gets the PAT. Team A gets the ball second scores and on the scoring play Team B commits PI. Team A kicks the PAT, so we are tied again. So at that point we know we are going to a second OT.

Typically in the Second OT the opposite happens of the first OT. So Team B would go on offense first. So since PI is 15 yards and OT usually starts on the 20, it would change it into a half the distance so why couldn't Team A start on the 10 for the second OT?
Until both teams have completed their series in overtime, there is no way of knowing whether an additional extra period will be necessary. That is why you cannot carry over penalties for fouls on a touchdown-scoring play to the next series. You cannot carry over a penalty to a spot that you don’t know will even exist until the try is completed. That’s not an issue in regulation because a kickoff always follows the try. It really is that simple.

(Of course, the simple solution to the OP’s question is to not throw a flag for DPI on a completed pass. If the pass was completed it’s hard to argue that there was an advantage gained by the defense.)

I have a hunch @AllSports12 thinks this topic has worn out its welcome and it’s time to move on.
 
Yep.... Been through this more than once with some of the guys from the Elder forum.....

When the coaches think this is inequitable, they'll propose a change.

The rule is the rule for the reasons given......... time to move on.
You clearly do not understand how OT works in HS. I was misinformed that you guys do, sorry about that. You do know the other team will get a position in certain points of OT. Time to find some real refs who understand the game.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You clearly do not understand how OT works in HS. I was misinformed that you guys do, sorry about that. You do know the other team will get a position in certain points of OT. Time to find some real refs who understand the game.
4 of the 14 varsity games I've worked so far this year went to OT.... Add that to the numerous OT games I've worked since OT was adopted in Ohio gives me a pretty good grasp of how overtime works.

You don't like the rule. We have nothing to do with the rule other than enforcing it as it's written. Whether or not you or I (officials) like the rule is irrelevant. However, as it always is, we are to blame for you not liking the rule. ?‍♂️ (see DPI no longer an automatic first down)

That's ok..... blame away.

Better yet, Take it back to your school forum. Since you guys already have all the answers regarding to coaching, might as well add officiating and rules making to your list of expertise over there. ;)

The subject is closed in this forum
 
Last edited:
The vast majority of those who post questions on here respect this request, however, there are always a few......

Therefore, another reminder that this thread is for serious questions about rules and mechanics. We aren't going to argue why you think the rule is "stupid".

Again, I encourage you to open a thread in the Football Forum to espouse why you think a rule should be the way you think it should be. (psst.... it's not going to change a thing ;))

Continuously posting why you think we are wrong (we aren't) about why a rule exists after the matter is declared closed or even editing your previous posts in an effort to get around that declaration will get the post deleted.....

It also shows how childish you are acting.

Thanks.... AS12
 
Last edited:
Something I saw in a game that had me curious, the defense was flagged for pass interference but instead of marking off 15 yards, they marked off 30 yards, there were no other penalties (at least not announced), what would be the reason for the 30 yard penalty? I thought that defensive pass interference was strictly no more than 15 yards and replay the down.
 
Something I saw in a game that had me curious, the defense was flagged for pass interference but instead of marking off 15 yards, they marked off 30 yards, there were no other penalties (at least not announced), what would be the reason for the 30 yard penalty? I thought that defensive pass interference was strictly no more than 15 yards and replay the down.
There is a provision in NFHS rules that allows for an “intentional” pass interference foul to be penalized with an additional 15 yards for a total of 30. When this happens, the “second” 15 yards is considered unsportsmanlike conduct and the referee is supposed to give both signals.

Philosophically this rule is extremely rarely invoked and it wouldn’t even trip my radar unless the DB just tackles the receiver to avoid a touchdown – and even then I’d think twice. So if that’s what the crew called in your situation, I hope it was a no-brainer.
 
Something I saw in a game that had me curious, the defense was flagged for pass interference but instead of marking off 15 yards, they marked off 30 yards, there were no other penalties (at least not announced), what would be the reason for the 30 yard penalty? I thought that defensive pass interference was strictly no more than 15 yards and replay the down.
I am curious also. I've never seen nor heard of intentional PI being called. Can you tell us when, and who was playing?
 
Your thoughts on the dead ball call on the fake knee and the enforcement of unsportsmanlike? Been a few years since I saw that in a city game.
The OHSAA says that when a team declares its intent to take a knee when the score differential is 9 or more points, the QB must take a knee immediately and faking it will be penalized as an unfair act.
 
Top