Ask The Ref?

Came across a replay of a football game and tuned in.
Jackson State and Alabama State.
A. State backed up to the one yard line. Run takes it to the two yard line. A State is then called for delay of game. Question I have is could J State have declined the penalty?
Is there a number of penalties that must be accepted?
 
USA70PP said:
Came across a replay of a football game and tuned in.
Jackson State and Alabama State.
A. State backed up to the one yard line. Run takes it to the two yard line. A State is then called for delay of game. Question I have is could J State have declined the penalty?
Is there a number of penalties that must be accepted?
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Yes they can decline the penalty, no a penalty never has to be accepted.
 
USA70PP said:
Thanks, thought as much.
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Zebrastripes answered your question, but I have a question.

Was the delay of game foul called just before the snap of the two yard run, or before the next play?

If it was called before the two yard run the ball was dead. If it was 3rd down on the 1 yard line and J State accepted the penalty it would be 3rd down on the 1/2 yard line. If they declined it would be 3rd down on the 1 yard line, but there was no option to have the 2 yard run stand because that happened while the ball was dead.
 
chs1971 said:
Zebrastripes answered your question, but I have a question.

Was the delay of game foul called just before the snap of the two yard run, or before the next play?

If it was called before the two yard run the ball was dead. If it was 3rd down on the 1 yard line and J State accepted the penalty it would be 3rd down on the 1/2 yard line. If they declined it would be 3rd down on the 1 yard line, but there was no option to have the 2 yard run stand because that happened while the ball was dead.
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Before the ball was snapped. A State had a goat rope with shifts and never got the ball snapped.
 
Carol Danvers said:
What is the rule on jersey numbers for a punt team? if 25 is the long snapper and 3 and 11 are gunners, would the following formation make #75 eligible if upback #58 threw a pass? Does #75 have to check in eligible or is that an NFL rule only?
3 23 20 53 25 72 8 75 11
58
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- Number 75 is ineligible by rule. (cannot "declare" him as eligible)
- In the formation you posted, only #11 and #3 are eligible receivers.

Here's the exception to the rule that requires 5 players numbered 50-79 be on the line of scrimmage at the snap.....

On fourth down or during a kick try, when A sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation, any A player numbered 1 to 49 or 80 to 99 may take the position of any A player numbered 50 to 79. A player in the game under this exception must assume an initial position on his line of scrimmage between the ends and he remains an ineligible forward-pass receiver during that down unless the pass is touched by B
 
heritage9779 said:
Is it legal to lineup, and kick, in a field goal formation (with tee) for a punt?
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I'm assuming you mean scrimmage kick formation with...

- a holder who is positioned with a knee on the ground 7 yards or more behind the line of scrimmage
- another player 3 yards or less behind the holder to attempt a place kick
- a kicking tee, made of pliable material which elevates the lowest point of the ball no more than 2 inches above the ground

From this position....
- 3 points can be scored due to a successful field goal
- A touchback can occur due to the ball crossing the goal line in an unsuccessful field goal attempt
- The kick can be returned by the opponent. (provided the ball does not cross the goal line before it is possessed by the opponent)
- The kick can go out of bounds before it crosses the goal line or touches they pylon (properly placed) at the goal line. If this happens, it becomes the opponent's ball 1st and 10 at that dead ball spot.
- The kick can come to rest with the opponent making no attempt to possess the ball in an attempt to return the kick. The ball then should be whistled dead and the opponent will begin a new series, 1st and 10 from that dead ball spot.

In other words..... a place kick is a scrimmage kick. If that place kick is not successful, it is treated the same way a punt is treated.
 
AllSports12 said:
I'm assuming you mean scrimmage kick formation with...

- a holder who is positioned with a knee on the ground 7 yards or more behind the line of scrimmage
- another player 3 yards or less behind the holder to attempt a place kick
- a kicking tee, made of pliable material which elevates the lowest point of the ball no more than 2 inches above the ground

From this position....
- 3 points can be scored due to a successful field goal
- A touchback can occur due to the ball crossing the goal line in an unsuccessful field goal attempt
- The kick can be returned by the opponent. (provided the ball does not cross the goal line before it is possessed by the opponent)
- The kick can go out of bounds before it crosses the goal line or touches they pylon (properly placed) at the goal line. If this happens, it becomes the opponent's ball 1st and 10 at that dead ball spot.
- The kick can come to rest with the opponent making no attempt to possess the ball in an attempt to return the kick. The ball then should be whistled dead and the opponent will begin a new series, 1st and 10 from that dead ball spot.

In other words..... a place kick is a scrimmage kick. If that place kick is not successful, it is treated the same way a punt is treated.
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Would anything change if you snapped directly to the kicker who then punts it in this formation? I would assume not but just want clarification.
 
thavoice said:
Mr. A,

Any points of emphasis or rule changes this year we should all be on the lookout?
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Rule Change

Blocking below the waist now requires the block to begin immediately following the snap. This cleans up the old rule that allowed for this block if the ball was still in the Free Blocking Zone. Shotgun snaps created a problem in judgment regarding the status of the ball when the block began so they (thankfully) changed the rule to "begin immediately following the snap". The location of the ball no longer matters. All other restrictions on who can block and who can be blocked remains unchanged.

Points of Emphasis

1) Sportsmanship - Includes Fans, PA Announcers, and Bands
2) Intentional Grounding - Becoming an issue. Proper mechanics by officials will help eliminate the missed calls.
3) Ineligible Downfield and Line of Scrimmage Formations - Better focus needed on ineligibles blocking past the expanded neutral zone (2yds). On formations, we've seen far too many lines in the "V" or similar to below.....

1628541271855.png
 
AllSports12 said:
Rule Change

Blocking below the waist now requires the block to begin immediately following the snap. This cleans up the old rule that allowed for this block if the ball was still in the Free Blocking Zone. Shotgun snaps created a problem in judgment regarding the status of the ball when the block began so they (thankfully) changed the rule to "begin immediately following the snap". The location of the ball no longer matters. All other restrictions on who can block and who can be blocked remains unchanged.

Points of Emphasis

1) Sportsmanship - Includes Fans, PA Announcers, and Bands
2) Intentional Grounding - Becoming an issue. Proper mechanics by officials will help eliminate the missed calls.
3) Ineligible Downfield and Line of Scrimmage Formations - Better focus needed on ineligibles blocking past the expanded neutral zone (2yds). On formations, we've seen far too many lines in the "V" or similar to below.....

View attachment 19777
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As I am a PA announcer for football, just curious as to what behaviors are being shown for this to be a point of emphasis. For fans and bands too for that matter.
 
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Ericles said:
As I am a PA announcer for football, just curious as to what behaviors are being shown for this to be a point of emphasis. For fans and bands too for that matter.
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In football this was a POE in 2010 and now again for 2020 & 2021 (repeat this year due to covid restrictions last year). That alone indicates a problem (in basketball, it's been a POE three times in 10 years).

Unfortunately, there have been too many announcers that have decided to execute their duties outside of the framework established by the NFHS and many state associations. Embellishing the results of the play, announcing during a live ball, editorializing coaching and officiating decisions, and in some cases criticizing teenaged participants. The NFHS in 2014 went as far as establishing an education program for Public Address announcers on their, NFHSLearn platform.

While many, do their jobs well, there are entirely too many that are out of line. In my first 35 years of officiating, I had zero issues with PA announcers..... Just in the past three years we have had to have the home team pull the plug a total of 5 times.

As far as fans and bands....... Bands for some reason are starting to do their own thing by playing during a live ball or when the ball is about to come live (during the QB signals)..... That's prohibited under OHSAA sport regulations..... Fans.... well, game reports from officials directing school administrators to remove fans are through the roof, not only statewide, but nationally as well..... Furthermore, I cannot remember seeing a video of a fight on the floor that did not result in fans exiting the stands to further make things difficult for officials, administrators, and law enforcement.
 
MSL said:
PA announcers are not play-by-play commentators. They are two different roles that serve two different functions. At the high school level there are FAR too many who don’t seem to realize that.
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Agreed....

Hence, the Point of Emphasis issued by the NFHS.
 
AllSports12 said:
In the formation you posted, #3’s position on the line of scrimmage makes #23 a lineman….. and an ineligible receiver
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Doesn't make him a lineman, it just makes him ineligible cause their both are on the line of scrimmage and 3 is covering up 23. If they lined up out wide in a passing situation with both on the LOS 23 would still be ineligible. Only way he is if one of them is not on the line of scrimmage.
 
Clockkiller said:
Doesn't make him a lineman, it just makes him ineligible cause their both are on the line of scrimmage and 3 is covering up 23. If they lined up out wide in a passing situation with both on the LOS 23 would still be ineligible. Only way he is if one of them is not on the line of scrimmage.
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What is the definition of a lineman?
 
Clockkiller said:
Doesn't make him a lineman, it just makes him ineligible cause their both are on the line of scrimmage and 3 is covering up 23. If they lined up out wide in a passing situation with both on the LOS 23 would still be ineligible. Only way he is if one of them is not on the line of scrimmage.
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The point I was trying to make was that #3's position on the line of scrimmage removes any doubt as to the positioning of #23. (now you have a player on both sides of #23 who are the line of scrimmage). The wing officials need to identify eligible receivers prior to the snap......

Many times this is a botched formation as typically #23 would be off the line...... that bracketing of players around #23 makes it easier to verify.....

#23 is a lineman in this formation and is an ineligible receiver....

Now....

What's #3 in this formation?
 
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bb9 said:
What is the definition of a lineman?
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For some of us it is a center, guard, tackle, and maybe a tight end. Although perhaps some numbered 50-79 aren't quite there yet because of size or skill.

For others of us it is any (emphasis added) A player who is facing his opponents goal line with the line of his shoulders approximately parallel thereto and with his head or foot breaking an imaginary plane drawn parallel to the line of scrimmage through the waist of the snapper when the ball is snapped, (or close enough so that it does not give him an advantage or place his opponent at a disadvantage, and being dependent on the score and the grade level.)
 
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