Ask The Ref?

Just.here

Well-known member
If a team runs a fake field goal/PAT, can the player in the holder position have the ball with their knee down and then stand up, or lateral the ball with their knee still on the ground?
 

chs1971

Well-known member
If a team runs a fake field goal/PAT, can the player in the holder position have the ball with their knee down and then stand up, or lateral the ball with their knee still on the ground?
can the player in the holder position have the ball with their knee down and then stand up? Yes.

lateral the ball with their knee still on the ground? No.
 

bb9

Active member
They can actually catch the ball upright, go down to their knee, come back up, and run, pass, etc. But they cannot do pass or pitch while the knee is on the ground.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
They can actually catch the ball upright, go down to their knee, come back up, and run, pass, etc. But they cannot do pass or pitch while the knee is on the ground.
If they started on a knee and had to rise to catch a bad snap, yes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bb9

AllSports12

Moderator
Has the rule for kickoff out of bounds changed? We had one Friday, they awarded ball at the spot + a five yard penalty. I thought the 5 was only assessed on a re-kick?
In 2018 in an effort to reduce re-kicks, further minimize risk and ensure that appropriate penalties are in place for all fouls, the rules committee has added an option for fouls committed by the kicking team during free and scrimmage kicks.

The change now affords the receiving team all of the previous options as well as accepting the distance penalty at the end of the down.
 

ThaXFactor

Active member
I don't know if this has already been covered or not here. In Ohio, if a punt is partially blocked/receiving team gets a hand on the punt as the ball is being punted and then hits the punter, is this a penalty? I was at a game in 2013 where this happened and the receiving team was flagged 15 yards after getting a hand on the punt.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I don't know if this has already been covered or not here. In Ohio, if a punt is partially blocked/receiving team gets a hand on the punt as the ball is being punted and then hits the punter, is this a penalty? I was at a game in 2013 where this happened and the receiving team was flagged 15 yards after getting a hand on the punt.
Under NFHS rules. the touching of the ball by the defense does not absolve them from roughing or running into the kicker.

It's a judgement call on whether or not contact could have been avoided.
 

Walt

Active member
If a player/team is penalized for taunting during a long TD run and the flag is thrown before the ball carrier has crossed the goal line, how is the penalty enforced?

I thought a few years ago they changed the rule to enforce the penalty from the spot of the foul so if the player had yet to cross the goal line it would nullify the score. Is that not the case?

I recently saw a play in which the taunting penalty was thrown when the ball carrier was at the 20 yard line going in. The enforcement was on the ensuing kick off.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
If a player/team is penalized for taunting during a long TD run and the flag is thrown before the ball carrier has crossed the goal line, how is the penalty enforced?

I thought a few years ago they changed the rule to enforce the penalty from the spot of the foul so if the player had yet to cross the goal line it would nullify the score. Is that not the case?

I recently saw a play in which the taunting penalty was thrown when the ball carrier was at the 20 yard line going in. The enforcement was on the ensuing kick off.
It's treated as a dead ball foul (because of the nature of the foul, non-contact, unsporting), therefore the touchdown counts and the defense has the option of enforcing the penalty on the try or the kickoff.

This has been the HS rule for decades.
 
Last edited:

Walt

Active member
It's treated as a dead ball foul (because of the nature of the foul, non-contact, unsporting), therefore the touchdown counts and the defense has the option of enforcing the penalty on the try or the kickoff.

This has been the HS rule for decades.
Was that rule changed at some level? NCAA or NFL? Why is that in my brain?
 

Just.here

Well-known member
Was that rule changed at some level? NCAA or NFL? Why is that in my brain?
Yep, happened in the Kent State VMI game a couple weeks ago too.
Same situation happened in the Benedictine Boardman game this weekend, Kent’s touchdown was taken off the board, Benedictine’s counted.
 

CedarBuck92

Well-known member
Team A runs a play and is tackled at the 50. After the play 4 Unsportsmanlike penalties are assessed to them. How is this enforced? There aren't enough yards to march off the penalties so is it half the distance 4 times or do you march off a few then go half the distance from there?
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
Team A runs a play and is tackled at the 50. After the play 4 Unsportsmanlike penalties are assessed to them. How is this enforced? There aren't enough yards to march off the penalties so is it half the distance 4 times or do you march off a few then go half the distance from there?
50 to 35, 35 to 20, 20 to 10, 10 to 5
 

Vox Crusada

Well-known member
Going back to the Browns game two Sundays ago, something that has really bothered me even though I'm not technically a Browns fan.

Browns player makes play on sideline. Players tangled up and Chiefs coach shoves Browns player.
NFHS...

Both are gone for flagrant actions. The dead ball fouls offset, the down counts.

Initially, Kansas City was assessed a dead ball taunting penalty in this incident. After an officials conference, followed by video review in New York, there was no penalty assessed against Kansas City or the KC assistant coach because the Browns player was stepping on the crotch of the downed KC player and the KC assistant's "shoving action" was deemed by the game officials and the video review officials in NY to stop the Browns player from harming the KC player.
The Browns player was ejected from the game for shoving the KC assistant.
 
Last edited:

CatDog

Member
Yard markers at the 20 and ten heading in. Ball at the 22 (behind the chains) making it 3rd and 12.

There's a defensive pass interference call. Ref says half the distance to the goal and places ball at 11 yard line instead of marching off 15 yards and placing it at the 7 yard line with a first down.

Thoughts?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Yard markers at the 20 and ten heading in. Ball at the 22 (behind the chains) making it 3rd and 12.

There's a defensive pass interference call. Ref says half the distance to the goal and places ball at 11 yard line instead of marching off 15 yards and placing it at the 7 yard line with a first down.

Thoughts?
Correct enforcement of the penalty. The enforcement results in a 3rd down and 1 from the 11.

Anytime the penalty yardage takes you more than half the distance to the goal line, the penalty becomes half the distance.

The half-the-distance thresholds are...

30 yard line for a 15 yard penalty
20 yard line for a 10 yard penalty
10 yard line for a 5 yard penalty.

If the ball was snapped inside those spots, then the half-the-distance component kicks in.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
Yard markers at the 20 and ten heading in. Ball at the 22 (behind the chains) making it 3rd and 12.

There's a defensive pass interference call. Ref says half the distance to the goal and places ball at 11 yard line instead of marching off 15 yards and placing it at the 7 yard line with a first down.

Thoughts?
3rd & 1 is correct in grades 7-12.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
A1 is running with the ball, gets past the first down marker; B1 commits a face-mask penalty on Team B's 28 yard line, flag is thrown, but A1 is still running when he coughs up the ball and its recovered by B2.

Zebras mark it off from the bean-bag, Team A retains possession on Team B's 14 yard line.

Did they get this right? (This happened to be broadcasted online with the referee's microphone plugged into the broadcast, so we could hear them discuss it -- sequence of events posted above is as it happened on the tape that I'm watching.)
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
A1 is running with the ball, gets past the first down marker; B1 commits a face-mask penalty on Team B's 28 yard line, flag is thrown, but A1 is still running when he coughs up the ball and its recovered by B2.

Zebras mark it off from the bean-bag, Team A retains possession on Team B's 14 yard line.

Did they get this right? (This happened to be broadcasted online with the referee's microphone plugged into the broadcast, so we could hear them discuss it -- sequence of events posted above is as it happened on the tape that I'm watching.)
Yes they did, assuming that A1 lost the ball at the B-28. The penalty for the personal foul facemask in this situation would be enforced from the end of the run (where A1 fumbled the ball), either half the distance or 15 yards.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
A1 is running with the ball, gets past the first down marker; B1 commits a face-mask penalty on Team B's 28 yard line, flag is thrown, but A1 is still running when he coughs up the ball and its recovered by B2.

Zebras mark it off from the bean-bag, Team A retains possession on Team B's 14 yard line.

Did they get this right? (This happened to be broadcasted online with the referee's microphone plugged into the broadcast, so we could hear them discuss it -- sequence of events posted above is as it happened on the tape that I'm watching.)
A classic example of why the bean bag is thrown. When that ball is fumbled, it marks the end of the run. (albeit, as zebrastripes noted, it is unclear where in this play the ball was fumbled).

Now, another concern here is the R's microphone being plugged into the broadcast....... Hopefully you meant his mic that he used to announce the foul and penalty and not the radios used to communicate with his crew.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
Since B fouled before the change of possession B will not be allowed to keep the ball. It goes back to A.

The penalty was correctly enforced from the end of the run. Usually the end of the run is also where the play ends, but not when A1 fumbled. It is one of the reasons you see the officials throw their bean bags. Just in case we need to enforce a penalty from the end of a run followed by a loose ball.

It is a seldom seen penalty enforcement, but it is correct.
 

Pantherontheporch

Well-known member
In high school, is it a penalty if a defensive player (1) extends his arm and places his hand on the throat of an offensive player and pushes forward (not brief or incidental), (2) extends his arm and reaches underneath the face mask of an offensive player and pushes forward after cupping the chin of the offensive player in the palm of his hand or after sliding his hand upward between the offensive player's face and face mask, or (3) extends his arm and uses the palm of his hand to push up on the opening in the face mask of an offensive player?
I've seen all three scenarios happen, and no penalty has ever been called. Is it because none of them are illegal, or because one or more of them are illegal but the ref simply missed it each time?
Thanks.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
In high school, is it a penalty if a defensive player (1) extends his arm and places his hand on the throat of an offensive player and pushes forward (not brief or incidental), (2) extends his arm and reaches underneath the face mask of an offensive player and pushes forward after cupping the chin of the offensive player in the palm of his hand or after sliding his hand upward between the offensive player's face and face mask, or (3) extends his arm and uses the palm of his hand to push up on the opening in the face mask of an offensive player?
I've seen all three scenarios happen, and no penalty has ever been called. Is it because none of them are illegal, or because one or more of them are illegal but the ref simply missed it each time?
Thanks.
What you describe here in all three scenarios are fouls for Illegal Use of Hands.

Rule 2-3-2b2 requires a blocker, when using the open hand technique, to have his hands inside the frame of the opponent's body. The frame of the opponent is defined as at the shoulders or below, other than the back.

Please note, if the original contact is legal and an opponent makes a move, voluntary or involuntary, that causes the blocker's hands be become illegal by definition.... then the block remains legal as long as that block is maintained throughout.
 

Pantherontheporch

Well-known member
What you describe here in all three scenarios are fouls for Illegal Use of Hands.

Rule 2-3-2b2 requires a blocker, when using the open hand technique, to have his hands inside the frame of the opponent's body. The frame of the opponent is defined as at the shoulders or below, other than the back.

Please note, if the original contact is legal and an opponent makes a move, voluntary or involuntary, that causes the blocker's hands be become illegal by definition.... then the block remains legal as long as that block is maintained throughout.
Thanks for the quick reply, but are all the scenarios I described a penalty if the one using an open hand is the defensive player? Does 2-3-2b2 also cover the use of an open hand by a defensive player?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Thanks for the quick reply, but are all the scenarios I described a penalty if the one using an open hand is the defensive player? Does 2-3-2b2 also cover the use of an open hand by a defensive player?
Yes...... A blocker by definition can be any player.

For example.... A65 is a pulling guard leading a sweep left. B34 seeing this, steps up into the path of A65 preventing him from getting to his blocking assignment and allowing his teammate to tackle the runner.....

B34's "block" must be legal in all aspects...
 
Last edited:

chs1971

Well-known member
This is not a question but a complaint.

Our crew just had our third game of the season cancelled by covid.

The first time the home team was able to find an opponent and we played on Saturday.

The second time four of us got picked up to sub on other crews.

As of 11:30 Wednesday night we do not have a game.

Week 10 we have a team who has already cancelled twice this season. What are the odds we work that game?

Who do I complain to about this?
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
This is not a question but a complaint.

Our crew just had our third game of the season cancelled by covid.

The first time the home team was able to find an opponent and we played on Saturday.

The second time four of us got picked up to sub on other crews.

As of 11:30 Wednesday night we do not have a game.

Week 10 we have a team who has already cancelled twice this season. What are the odds we work that game?

Who do I complain to about this?
Unfortunately I'm not sure what you can do about this. Just seems like bad luck. You could raise complain to the assigner for the week 10 game but I wouldn't recommend that to most officials.

During my college basketball season last year some officials got royally screwed - I'm talking losing over 50% of their initial schedule. Others hardly lost any games. Just luck of the draw.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
This is the perfect place to vent about this..... Get it off your chest...... No ramifications. (I'd advise against publicly griping about the week 10 possibility)

Know of two crews who are currently 4/7.
 
.
Top