Spartacus1987
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I would blame the lack of talent more than the managers
2025 Cincinnati Reds Thread
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I would blame the lack of talent more than the managers
Omar
Well-known member
Nope. He’ll regress to the mean, don’t be fooled again. The Reds still need an every day OF bat.
Omar
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Dusty Baker is going to the HOF.
14Red
Well-known member
Normally I'd be estatic about a 4 game win streak and in some ways I am. These are the grind it out games that we need to keep winning. The Guardians have played well this season, but I'm not sure how good they really are. One big key to the last 3 days is the ability to control Stephen Kwan. He's one of the most underappreciated players in baseball. He got on a few times this weekend, but we were able to work around it. Also Jose Ramirez is one of the best in a baseball and we kept him from killing us.
Otherwise though that lineup isn't that good. Now we did win all three but hardly knocked the cover off the ball. In fact you take Will Benson's contributions out the last 3 days and we may only win one of those. And you have to be happy for Benson. He's been much maligned and it really looked like he was done as a Red. But injuries to Fraley and really ineffectiveness by Hurtebese and Dunn and Benson was the last man standing. You really see the former #1 round pick of the Guardians talent. He's big, he's athletic, the ball jumps off his bat. Small sample size but you really see he ball jumps off is bat. It appears he's been able to make some adjustments at the plate. Let's hope he's here to stay.
Otherwise though that lineup isn't that good. Now we did win all three but hardly knocked the cover off the ball. In fact you take Will Benson's contributions out the last 3 days and we may only win one of those. And you have to be happy for Benson. He's been much maligned and it really looked like he was done as a Red. But injuries to Fraley and really ineffectiveness by Hurtebese and Dunn and Benson was the last man standing. You really see the former #1 round pick of the Guardians talent. He's big, he's athletic, the ball jumps off his bat. Small sample size but you really see he ball jumps off is bat. It appears he's been able to make some adjustments at the plate. Let's hope he's here to stay.
14Red
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Kuddos to the Reds for pushing the game up. They would had never completed it if they started at 6:40. Just sthiks for those who couldn't get there earlier.
14Red
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Love the enthusiasm Spartacus, but even though it's Cleveland, it's still one game, just like the other 161. As much as I enjoy beating the Guardians, to me the Ohio cup thing is just silly. It's a regular season series just like beating the Mariners, Rangers, Cubs or anyone else. No letdown going to Pittsburgh. Let's keep the line moving.
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
NO. Beating Cleveland is NOT like beating those other teams. To me this series is WAR every single time. Beating them is at the same level of Ohio State beating Notre Dame or the Titans beating the Steelers.
The Indians are absolutely hated in my family. Just go look at Indians message boards on the internet, they look so down on the Reds for a franchise that hasn’t won a WS in like 70 years. I cheer against them even against the Yankees in the playoffs.
Gh0st
Well-known member
Mark my words. This weekend is the point the front office is now not going to look for another outfield bat. That’s not a knock on Will Benson, he had a great weekend and he certainly deserves it. But we all a player that has a history of being a flash in the pan every so often but often suffers prolonged slumps.
Unfortunately, I think the Castellini’s just saw dollar signs and how they can sucker fans into thinking Benson is the every day outfield we’ve been needing. They’re MO seems to be deceiving fans to make the most profit possible.
Unfortunately, I think the Castellini’s just saw dollar signs and how they can sucker fans into thinking Benson is the every day outfield we’ve been needing. They’re MO seems to be deceiving fans to make the most profit possible.
kdiamond
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This is obviuosly very personal to sparts . He is the only Reds fan ive ever heard of that has the Indians as his most hated team. But, if that gives him satisfaction,then ,welll........
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Cannot judge a baseball player or a team on just a couple of games. You have said these are the only games that you have watched.
Yes, Elly had a bad weekend, and he strikes out too much. He has had a slower than expected start to the season. However, he still leads the team in hits, runs, RBI, HR and SB. And his selectivity at the plate has improved so much this year, and he bats around .250, for those folks that still give BA any value. Moving him down in the lineup and giving the guy who is clearly your most productive hitter fewer ABs per game is not logical.
kdiamond
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He won ONE world series as a manager in 2022 and that took a team that basically cheated the entire time. Francona is a better mgr than him.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
100% agree about the Castellini's. This sweep will boost attendance enough that they will get their nut for another season. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see the sweep, and now that we are back to .500 I hope we can keep winning. But we should have no illusion about the depth of position players in the organization, or ownership's willingness to remedy that with spending.
As for Benson, I'm happy for the kid that he had this hot stretch and hope it continues. The Reds need that big time. He has clearly changed his stance and approach at the plate, so hopefully that unlocks all that physical potential that he has always had.
kdiamond
Well-known member
Well said. As a n Indians fan I will tell you that last yr the stars alinged with a bullpen that was just ridiculously good and an offense that was good enough to compete .Now without Josh Naylor and even the avg hitting Giminez who was a gold glove 2nd baseman ,this yrs version of the Tribe is more of a glorified AAA team . I meen we got Kwan ,Ramirex and a very up and coming Manzardo and thats about it for offense .NOW , they are getting Lance Thomas back soon and Chase DeLAuuteer ( # 1 farm player) will be arriving soon, add in Shane Bieber maybe late June or July and if hes 80-=90% of what he was the pitching staff gets a huge boost . we shall see, but The AL Cnetral may be the best division in baseball. right now 4 teams out of 5 would be in the playoofss
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
I'm not, it's year 3. Your argument had some merit when he was a rookie when I was making these claims but I have yet to see improvement from him at the plate. Just because he's the leader of an average Reds offense doesn't make him a great hitter. I'm not saying he's terrible, just that he's overrated considering the hype he was getting. Even with his fielding he still doesn't look smooth. Great arm but he's not quick with the exchange from glove to hand. A great fielding SS throws out Santana yesterday on the slow dribbler and he was lucky he didn't have an error on the throw. He leads MLB short stop in errors as well
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wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
I never claimed he was a "great hitter". I said he was the Reds most productive hitter and giving him fewer at bats (by moving him down in the lineup) does not make sense. Your comments about his defense do not really support your argument for changing his place in the batting order either. I'm guessing a smart manager like Tito will leave him where he belongs.
If you are not watching the Reds I understand that. I often wish I could quit. But in order to see improvement, you need to see him more often. Small sample sizes are irrelevant in baseball. He is so much more disciplined at the plate than he was. At his height he will always have big holes in his swing, but I'm guessing that gets better also. He is 23, has yet to play 2 full seasons in the MLB. Plus he starts slow. He hit .208 last May. Check back in a couple of months - his numbers will be there.
Gh0st
Well-known member
I agree, it’s a shame that as fans we see something like this weekend and know ownership uses it to forward its ulterior motives.
It was a great weekend of baseball. First sweep of Cleveland in 13(? I think that’s right) seasons and a much maligned prospect, fairly or otherwise, having a great weekend, carried the team on his back, and getting much deserved credit.
Unfortunately, those of us that live in reality look at this as the inflection point that damns this team to not get any help at the trade deadline because we’re about to be sold a crock that Will Benson is the missing piece in the outfield we’ve all been looking for.
Why? Simply because it lets Phil and Bob line their pockets for another season.
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Notre Dame = 2025 National Champions
Saturday was the fourth 38,000+ crowd of the season, joining Opening Day, the kids’ opener, and Pete Rose Night.
The Reds still have 4 or 5 bobblehead games, 3 postgame concerts (including Snoop Dogg), whatever cut they get from the Speedway Classic, plus 6 or 7 summer weekend home series.
Ownership’s profit is assured. I wouldn’t expect any major aggression at the trade deadline.
The Reds still have 4 or 5 bobblehead games, 3 postgame concerts (including Snoop Dogg), whatever cut they get from the Speedway Classic, plus 6 or 7 summer weekend home series.
Ownership’s profit is assured. I wouldn’t expect any major aggression at the trade deadline.
14Red
Well-known member
So for kicks and giggles, who would you like the Reds to go get, keeping in mind we're not going to give teams Lowder and Chase Burns in return? I mean alot of people raved about the Louis Robert, Jr. for the White Sox. He's ok. We watched him last week. He's ok. You want to back the Brinks truck up to his house and give him the farm? I don't think he'd help us much. Do you think the Braves would hand over Ronald Acuna, Jr.??
Do we want to get guys to help the team, or just have the Castelini family spend money?
boothmark77
Well-known member
Phil still in rehab? Perhaps that’s why he and his dad are awful owners—and biz ppl. I am floored they swindled Francona into managing this mediocrity.
Gh0st
Well-known member
Does hyperbole make you feel better? My expectation is a Major League outfielder plays all three outfield positions. On a given night the Reds have 1 or 2 outfield spots not filled by a Major League outfielder. Explain to me how that helps the team?
I want the Castellini family to assemble a roster a hall of fame caliber manager can win with.
Gh0st
Well-known member
To answer your question, yes, Luis Robert and Cedric Mullins would be people who are available now, but with 2 months to go until the trade deadline it’s not clear who all the sellers are. Your question is impossible to answer on May 19th.
I don’t expect to get Ronald Acuna Jr because he’s a generational player and a future HoFer. Also the Braves are still in contention so I would not expect them to trade their best player for any reason. I tried to give you an answer, but dumb questions usually get dumb answers.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Case in point re: the improvements in Elly's approach at the plate, last night's game.
- 1st inning, a patient, 2 out walk. Scores from first on Hays' double. Maybe 5% of MLB guys are fast enough to score there.
- 8th inning, a 2-1 game. Elly hits a low, outside pitch the opposite way for a clutch RBI double.
- 9th inning, pulls a low inside pitch for another RBI double.
Very impressed by the ABs in the 1st and 8th innings. Mature approach, not trying to pull everything over the wall.
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
I never said you stated anything about him. I'm saying compared to the media hype train he's overrated. You're right, his fielding has nothing to do with his hitting and everything to do with his fielding so he's underwhelming at SS as well. He still cannot hit offspeed stuff two years later so these "improvements" I haven't seen.
Also, the half buttoned shirt needs to end. He looks like an sweetie out there and the way he dresses you'd think he'd perform like Manny Ramirez when he isn't half the hitter Manny was.
kdiamond
Well-known member
Manny belongs in the HOF . He thought it was orange juice , not steroid juice.Manny not a rocket scientist .And Del La Soul is maybe 5 % the hitter Manny was .
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
I agree but Elly carries himself like he's Manny. I'm looking at Mannys 3rd year stats in MLB and I would guess Elly doesn't come close to that OR have have amazing consistency of high BA and HRs that followed after that
14Red
Well-known member
Well ok then, I'm not a Guardians fan, but I respect what they've accomplished, especially in the last 10 years or so. They always seem to be better than their talent level.
But to compare the franchises? It's like Indiana basketball and Purdue basketball fans, just win one title and you're still way behind us. Same way with the Guardians, I'm not a young man and they've never won a WS in my lifetime. The Reds have 3 and have been to 5.
14Red
Well-known member
I'm just trying to provide some reality. Austin Hays, TJ Friedl, Jake Fraley, Gavin Lux are all major league outfielders and I think we can safely put Will Benson in there too. Now yes, to continue with the Blake Dunn, Jacob Hurtebese, Rece Hinds...especially when you're counting on 2 outfield spots from that group is a stretch. I do think that the eventual plan is for Spencer Steer to be an everyday outfielder. But his injury along with CES, Candelario's struggles put him at first for the time being.
Just a clue, Francona didn't have a roster full of talent in Cleveland either. The Reds are not going to go out and buy players. That's not the plan. And lest we not forget the recent flops of Mike Moustakas, Will Myers, and currently Candelario. Just because you bring them in and pay them alot of money doesn't make it successful.
AEW Champion
Notre Dame = 2025 National Champions
Gavin Lux is an infielder who’s currently being played in the outfield due to bad roster construction. Spencer Steer is an infielder who’s been placed into the outfield many times due to poor roster construction. Neither of those guys is a solid defensive outfielder, so if you’re going to play them out of position, they’d better hit consistently.