2024 ECC Football

Manmythlegeng66 said:
LM parents need to shut up and let this new coach cook. At least for this year and next. The daddy ball is what caused the issues with Jones. LM has historically hired the same teachers, youth football parents, and retreads. Mahon who was not a good ole boy had this team in the right direction and frankly I expected more of Jones. Jones started bringing the good ole boys back to run the team and it all got screwed up.
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I can't help but agree with ya. It seemed like Mahon had them headed in the right direction, but he (and Coach Jones for the first year or 2) were blessed with more talent than Little Miami has had in awhile. All of that being said, I know of pretty accurate rumors that Jones was hamstrung by a lot of interdistrict and interbuilding politics. Coaches had to be retained or not hired by order of Principal or Superintendent. I think Jones was probably too nice of a guy to be the top dog with the way that LM is. The parents do need to zip it. The administration needs to decide whether they want to care about football or not. And I also agree with PeterDragon...the offense should probably be an option or true veer offense...but Modern Offensive Coaches seem to love the Spread because then they can blame the players for not executing, instead of having to teach more.
 
Not sure what the answer might be when it comes to settling on an offense to run. So many factors go into that decision today, and some of those factors are unfortunate realities of the times we're living in, when it comes to high school sports. For example, most skill position kids will say they "want" to play in a wide open, spread type of offense that throws it all over the field. Maybe nothing much wrong with that notion, but you'd better have a few more tools in your bag come playoff time, or bad weather. The open window, Wild Wild West of transferring, has hurt the sense of "community" that high school football programs used to represent; at least to a small degree. Parents unrealistically believing their kid is a legit DI scholarship "for-certain", just let him "get his touches"; that's always been around; more so today than previous generations. Parents coming unhinged and demanding coaches & staffs bend to their will has been a growing thing for awhile now. We are living in a severely narcissistic era today. I could go on and on, and maybe just come off sounding like a crusty old fart pining for days of yesteryear...but I ain't off on any of this stuff, am I? :unsure:
 
FootballPsychGuy said:
Not sure what the answer might be when it comes to settling on an offense to run. So many factors go into that decision today, and some of those factors are unfortunate realities of the times we're living in, when it comes to high school sports. For example, most skill position kids will say they "want" to play in a wide open, spread type of offense that throws it all over the field. Maybe nothing much wrong with that notion, but you'd better have a few more tools in your bag come playoff time, or bad weather. The open window, Wild Wild West of transferring, has hurt the sense of "community" that high school football programs used to represent; at least to a small degree. Parents unrealistically believing their kid is a legit DI scholarship "for-certain", just let him "get his touches"; that's always been around; more so today than previous generations. Parents coming unhinged and demanding coaches & staffs bend to their will has been a growing thing for awhile now. We are living in a severely narcissistic era today. I could go on and on, and maybe just come off sounding like a crusty old fart pining for days of yesteryear...but I ain't off on any of this stuff, am I? :unsure:
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Well said. Part of this is due to the big business nature of youth sports these days. Parents are spending obscene amounts of money on extra training for kids as young as 6. We are talking conditioning, different camps, I've seen QB trainings, year round flag football (which is 7v7 tourneys), and even strength training for young kids. These parents are spending all of this cash and the people running all these are throwing around the scholarship word a lot, so they can keep the gravy train rolling along. So, that's why these parents are delusional about their kid getting a scholarship.....because they've been told about all the players who get them who trained with so and so. Youth sports is right now is a HUGE industry.... tens of billions of dollars. It's no longer about actually teaching kids how to play a sport and having kids wanting to play just for fun is going away which is sad.
 
cincifbfan said:
Well said. Part of this is due to the big business nature of youth sports these days. Parents are spending obscene amounts of money on extra training for kids as young as 6. We are talking conditioning, different camps, I've seen QB trainings, year round flag football (which is 7v7 tourneys), and even strength training for young kids. These parents are spending all of this cash and the people running all these are throwing around the scholarship word a lot, so they can keep the gravy train rolling along. So, that's why these parents are delusional about their kid getting a scholarship.....because they've been told about all the players who get them who trained with so and so. Youth sports is right now is a HUGE industry.... tens of billions of dollars. It's no longer about actually teaching kids how to play a sport and having kids wanting to play just for fun is going away which is sad.
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yep, thanks for adding those truths as well Cincifbfan. The $$$ grab for all that training you describe has also escalated out of control over the last 15-20 years. The unfortunate reality is that kids really do only get one-go-around-playing-high-school-sports. The pressure to specialize in only one is huge; but also disingenuous from the adults raking in all that dough.
 
cincifbfan said:
Well said. Part of this is due to the big business nature of youth sports these days. Parents are spending obscene amounts of money on extra training for kids as young as 6. We are talking conditioning, different camps, I've seen QB trainings, year round flag football (which is 7v7 tourneys), and even strength training for young kids. These parents are spending all of this cash and the people running all these are throwing around the scholarship word a lot, so they can keep the gravy train rolling along. So, that's why these parents are delusional about their kid getting a scholarship.....because they've been told about all the players who get them who trained with so and so. Youth sports is right now is a HUGE industry.... tens of billions of dollars. It's no longer about actually teaching kids how to play a sport and having kids wanting to play just for fun is going away which is sad.
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Travel sports are nearly impossible for kids/parents to enjoy anymore. The whole industry is filled with a lot of slime balls and every parent is convinced their kid is getting a college scholarship and your kid is getting in the way of that. The best thing a kid can do is get involved in an individual sport (running or swimming because it’s simply a matter of how fast you can go, not who your parents know or how much money they slipped the coach) or a sport exclusively tied to high schools. The best thing about football is that it really is only played at high schools and there are no travel teams (I know that there are camps, 7-on-7, etc.). There are also 22 guys on the field, and many of these aren’t going to play at the next level, know it, and just straight enjoy the competition.
 
JBaller said:
Travel sports are nearly impossible for kids/parents to enjoy anymore. The whole industry is filled with a lot of slime balls and every parent is convinced their kid is getting a college scholarship and your kid is getting in the way of that. The best thing a kid can do is get involved in an individual sport (running or swimming because it’s simply a matter of how fast you can go, not who your parents know or how much money they slipped the coach) or a sport exclusively tied to high schools. The best thing about football is that it really is only played at high schools and there are no travel teams (I know that there are camps, 7-on-7, etc.). There are also 22 guys on the field, and many of these aren’t going to play at the next level, know it, and just straight enjoy the competition.
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Well stated truths JBaller. I always enjoy hearing your thoughts on here. Maybe the pendulum will one day swing back toward reason and what used to be the main reasons kids got involved in sports. We've lost our way on so many levels with all of these issues today. I was an athlete, my kids were athletes, and I do indeed hope my grandkids want to get involved in sports as well...but the things we're discussing, I'm not so sure anymore. You bring up a great point about individual sports, and those sports where the "stopwatch" determines playing time, where the politics really can't wedge their way in to the overall experience as much.
 
Also the #'s at LM seem to be down, despite moving up to D1. I was at the scrimmage against Lakota East and the sidelines looked thin. Is the new coach too demanding and kids don't want to put in the hard work and sacrifice? Did last years 1-9 season ruin some experiences and kids didn't come back out, thinking this year might be the same? Its disheartening knowing we have no chance to compete in the ECC, let alone Region 4. We have no chance. Has that apathy spread to the student body? Lots of questions and few answers. One thing for sure is Anderson may score 80 on us if they choose to do so this week. Guaranteed mauling and an 0-3 start.
 
JBaller said:
Travel sports are nearly impossible for kids/parents to enjoy anymore. The whole industry is filled with a lot of slime balls and every parent is convinced their kid is getting a college scholarship and your kid is getting in the way of that. The best thing a kid can do is get involved in an individual sport (running or swimming because it’s simply a matter of how fast you can go, not who your parents know or how much money they slipped the coach) or a sport exclusively tied to high schools. The best thing about football is that it really is only played at high schools and there are no travel teams (I know that there are camps, 7-on-7, etc.). There are also 22 guys on the field, and many of these aren’t going to play at the next level, know it, and just straight enjoy the competition.
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There are a few travel youth football teams if you look hard enough. And youth football is trending more towards that with all of these post-season weekend tournaments that teams are participating in. You can play 4+ full contact football games in a weekend. And many youth programs are playing in these tournaments every weekend through all of November and into early December. These tournaments are appalling money grabs at the expense of kids.
 
PeterDragon said:
Also the #'s at LM seem to be down, despite moving up to D1. I was at the scrimmage against Lakota East and the sidelines looked thin. Is the new coach too demanding and kids don't want to put in the hard work and sacrifice? Did last years 1-9 season ruin some experiences and kids didn't come back out, thinking this year might be the same? Its disheartening knowing we have no chance to compete in the ECC, let alone Region 4. We have no chance. Has that apathy spread to the student body? Lots of questions and few answers. One thing for sure is Anderson may score 80 on us if they choose to do so this week. Guaranteed mauling and an 0-3 start.
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ECC
2023 1-9
2022 4-8 huge playoff win over 2 seed xenia
2021 4-7
2020 3-7
SWOC
2019 8-3
2018 9-3
2017 7-3
They should've stayed in the SWOC.
 
FootballPsychGuy said:
Not sure what the answer might be when it comes to settling on an offense to run. So many factors go into that decision today, and some of those factors are unfortunate realities of the times we're living in, when it comes to high school sports. For example, most skill position kids will say they "want" to play in a wide open, spread type of offense that throws it all over the field. Maybe nothing much wrong with that notion, but you'd better have a few more tools in your bag come playoff time, or bad weather. The open window, Wild Wild West of transferring, has hurt the sense of "community" that high school football programs used to represent; at least to a small degree. Parents unrealistically believing their kid is a legit DI scholarship "for-certain", just let him "get his touches"; that's always been around; more so today than previous generations. Parents coming unhinged and demanding coaches & staffs bend to their will has been a growing thing for awhile now. We are living in a severely narcissistic era today. I could go on and on, and maybe just come off sounding like a crusty old fart pining for days of yesteryear...but I ain't off on any of this stuff, am I? :unsure:
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Agree............I cringe at the PR/Pictures of HS athletes and their "signings'= helps create the illusion/parental delusions that all of these student athletes are getting 'Full Ride$'.....................
 
NeilYung said:
Agree............I cringe at the PR/Pictures of HS athletes and their "signings'= helps create the illusion/parental delusions that all of these student athletes are getting 'Full Ride$'.....................
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High school coaches, ADs, and entire athletic departments are complicit in this one too. The propaganda that is the main part of these "signings" are only re-enforcing that false bravado . Somewhere along the line, they all sold out too. It's now a familiar staple in the post season celebrations, even though NAIA & DIII universities do NOT offer athletic scholarships. Parents don't want to hear that truth, lest all that $$$ laid out for years with those over-scheduled activities be shown for what they were.
 
cincifbfan said:
NAIA does offer athletic scholarships, it's extremely rare for them to offer a full one though. They are so limited, most kids get 5-10k for athletics. And then like D3, they'll find academic and need based aid.
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True, but like you said, those are rare. Add to that, the schools that tend to offer some athletic money, also tend to be the much more expensive tuition rate, private type institutions. And when I say much more expensive, they're often 2X, sometimes as much as 3X, as expensive to enroll at, so one has to wonder if it's worth it overall?
 
FootballPsychGuy said:
True, but like you said, those are rare. Add to that, the schools that tend to offer some athletic money, also tend to be the much more expensive tuition rate, private type institutions. And when I say much more expensive, they're often 2X, sometimes as much as 3X, as expensive to enroll at, so one has to wonder if it's worth it overall?
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You are correct.

I have found in my experience, that too many people don't even really look at NAIA schools when they are recruited due to the absurd price tags of most of these schools. But, in what I've noticed, those that do end up paying very little out of pocket and it becomes more affordable than in state public public schools (not always). These coaches really know how to work their schools financial aid department getting grants and other academic scholarships for the players. And the players going to these schools typically have to meet the normal admissions requirements, so these are smart kids that have no issues getting academic aid.

The point I'm trying to make is High School coaches and ADs need to do a much better job of making sure their athletes and their families have all the information before making a decision. That NAIA school may wind up being the best deal in the long run, or as you said lead to crippling debt if the fine print isn't read through thoroughly. I've had players in the past choose NAIA over preferred walk on opportunities (because that's a just dumb idea IMHO) and half scholarships at D2 schools because the overall cost per year was considerably lower at the NAIA than after all the aid. I've even seen D3 schools come up with VERY generous aid packages that make them a no-brainer option. There's lots of factors to consider, and the coaches need to educate families better on what those options are instead of just getting photos on Twitter about all the "offers." Because offers mean squat. So many kids with offers never play because they are not NCAA eligible, which is a whole other discussion altogether. Celebrate how many graduates of ur program are actually playing any level of college ball instead.
 
PeterDragon said:
Also the #'s at LM seem to be down, despite moving up to D1. I was at the scrimmage against Lakota East and the sidelines looked thin. Is the new coach too demanding and kids don't want to put in the hard work and sacrifice? Did last years 1-9 season ruin some experiences and kids didn't come back out, thinking this year might be the same? Its disheartening knowing we have no chance to compete in the ECC, let alone Region 4. We have no chance. Has that apathy spread to the student body? Lots of questions and few answers. One thing for sure is Anderson may score 80 on us if they choose to do so this week. Guaranteed mauling and an 0-3 start.
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A lot of kids at LM think with the lack of success that football team is a joke. They would rather find other stuff to do. Also there is a lot of kids who are entitled in that area. Even though they have no business being that way. More recent Alumni think the football program is a joke. There is a lot of animosity especially during the Jones years that positions werent earned they were given out. There were a lot of kids playing wrong positions. I talked to a friend of mine a while back who is a notable coach in the area and the view of the Jones era was Jones is a super nice guy, talented coach young coach, and was given a situation at LM that he wasn't ready for and the politics of that school won. Assistants basically would run over top of him. He probably would have had more success at a smaller school like Goshen or Waynesville. I was a huge fan of Jones and wished it went better for him. Basically from what I head Chenault in a lack of better words is trying to create a culture. I personally hope he blows the whole thing up and rebuilds. He knows talent, he has experienced winning and needs to be trusted.

LM may not win a game this year unfortunately...
 
Any thoughts on this weekend's games? If Anderson's the early favorite to win the conference, Winton Woods/Milford is the battle for dark horse status, in my mind. People seem to feel that Milford is in for a drop off this year, but it doesn't seem to have hit yet. I have not seen them play yet, but with 14 straight regular season wins and two blowouts this year (I know, not exactly top flight opponents), I've got to give them the benefit of the doubt. I've watched both of Winton Woods' games so far, and they look like a carbon copy of last year, amazing defense, very wobbly offense. Last week's game felt like it was totally dominated by Winton Woods, despite Kings outgaining them 250-76. Their defense has easily outscored their offense so far. I think if Milford can avoid the types of catastrophic mistakes Winton Woods has feasted on so far, they have a a great shot at a statement win.
 
Timelineman said:
Any thoughts on this weekend's games? If Anderson's the early favorite to win the conference, Winton Woods/Milford is the battle for dark horse status, in my mind. People seem to feel that Milford is in for a drop off this year, but it doesn't seem to have hit yet. I have not seen them play yet, but with 14 straight regular season wins and two blowouts this year (I know, not exactly top flight opponents), I've got to give them the benefit of the doubt. I've watched both of Winton Woods' games so far, and they look like a carbon copy of last year, amazing defense, very wobbly offense. Last week's game felt like it was totally dominated by Winton Woods, despite Kings outgaining them 250-76. Their defense has easily outscored their offense so far. I think if Milford can avoid the types of catastrophic mistakes Winton Woods has feasted on so far, they have a a great shot at a statement win.
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I picked Milford in the pick'em - I don't think WW scores an offensive touchdown.

Anderson should cruise. Kings should cruise. Turpin should cruise, but I'm interested to see if the Walnut offense can find a way to keep up for a while. Lebanon/WC is an interesting game, but again I don't believe the WC offense is going to do very much.
 
I grew up in the district and have been around Morrow enough to get a good feel of the football climate there.

I think what everybody is saying is correct. Parents and students have this false reality of what LM's program is and how much of a rebuild it unfortunately will to be.

The parents think that just because a new coach comes in after they run out the last one, they will immediately see a difference or win. It's going to take some time. Parents also think that because their teams won a few Super Bowls in youth or were good in junior high, they should be good in high school. Everybody catches up eventually, sorry that the glory years were so young.

The students don't take the program seriously enough. Everybody thinks the football team is a joke and nobody in that building honestly thinks they will win on a given Friday night. They have a TON of athletes in that school, but they just don't play football because it's not worth it to their bodies over the course of a 1-9/0-10 season, play other sports, or just not like football when they tried it whenever they did. Even most football players miss a lot of football things because they prioritize other sports over football (that's not a bad thing - there's just no true buy in to their culture) Students are choosing to go elsewhere for football/athletics. They are losing all sorts of athletes to Kings, Moeller, Fenwick, CHCA, McNick, or anywhere but LM!

The district itself doesn't take it seriously enough because they don't prioritize paying a coach above just supplemental pay or don't really care to bring in quality assistants because its district policy to prioritize teachers/staff for coaching positions. A couple of school years ago, the high school had a gym position open and chose to hire a person who had no interest in coaching over their STRENGTH AND CONDITIONING COACH!!! (who was part-time due to another job-- which hurts their athletic program as a whole!). So does the district office/administration actually care about putting a good football team out there? Probably not. You couldn't get a seat before the home games in the Mahon years. You're telling me that wasn't a positive for the community you'd like to bring back?

Honestly what is the peak of LM football in the future? They are in the long haul to build a strong program like their ECC foes such as Milford, Winton Woods, Kings, and Anderson have. It took those programs forever to build theirs. You are now in Region 4 with the big dawgs of the GCL and GMC. For LM I would consider a 5-5/4-6 season where you get a 8 or 9 seed and compete in that playoff game as an extremely successful year. They are so far from even doing that.
 
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One fun stat for each ECC team heading into Week 3:

Anderson: There have only been three instances of an ECC quarterback throwing for 8+ passing TDs in the first two weeks of the season. Anderson QB Justice Burnam accounts for two of those (2023 and 2024, other - Austin Hardin, Milford, 2022).
Kings: The Knights have had an 800+ yard receiver each of the last 3 seasons, and a 1,000+ yard receiver each of the last two. WR Nate Lyman is on pace for 1,270 yards in the regular season alone.
Lebanon: QB Luke Faler is one of two ECC quarterbacks to have attempted at least 25 passes without throwing an interception. Freshman K Logan Lane is tied for the league lead in kicking points with 11, making both his field goal attempts and 5 of 6 extra points.
Little Miami: WR Mitchell Lyons is averaging 32.3 yards per kickoff return, which leads the ECC. The last player with a return average that high across a whole season? Current Ohio State Buckeye Jermaine Mathews Jr. two years ago.
Loveland: P Sawyer Muchmore leads the league in punting yards with 296.
Milford: RB Jordan Davis is third in the league in rushing yards with 220, under 30 yards off the league lead, while having half as many carries as each of the two players in front of him. Oh yeah, and he's a sophomore.
Turpin: Turpin leads the league in pace, running 68.5 plays per game through their first two games. Only three other teams (Kings, Lebanon, West Clermont) are averaging more than 50 plays per game.
Walnut Hills: The Walnut Hills defense has 7 fumble recoveries this season. No other ECC team has more than 2.
West Clermont: QB Bo Rickman leads the ECC in rushing yards by a QB with 117 and is one of 5 players with at least 2 rushing touchdowns this season. DB Alexander Hauck is one of only 2 players in the conference with multiple interceptions.
Winton Woods: The Winton Woods defense leads the ECC in sacks with 11, tackles for loss with 20, interceptions with 3, and defensive touchdowns with 3. Seven different Warrior defenders have recorded a sack.
 
Game Preview: Milford Eagles vs. Winton Woods Warriors
Location: Winton Woods High School
Previous Year’s Matchup: Milford 3, Winton Woods 0

Milford Eagles (2-0, 1-0 ECC)
The Milford Eagles have started the season strong, with two dominant wins, including a 38-0 shutout over Walnut Hills. Quarterback Luke Brand has been exceptional, throwing for 451 yards and 6 touchdowns, with no interceptions. Brand’s favorite target, wide receiver Caden Bailey, has been a standout, catching 13 passes for 266 yards and 5 touchdowns. Running back Jordan Davis has also been effective, rushing for 220 yards and two touchdowns over two games.

Defensively, the Eagles have been solid, allowing just three points in two games. Key contributors include Jake Dixon, who has recorded 15 tackles, and Christian Felix, who has been involved in two forced fumbles.

Winton Woods Warriors (2-0, 1-0 ECC)
The Winton Woods Warriors are also undefeated, with wins over Springfield and Kings. While the offense has been balanced, quarterback Bryshawn Brown has faced some challenges, completing just 37% of his passes. The ground game, led by Tyler Gooding and Isaiah Garrett, has been the backbone of the Warriors’ offense, combining for over 120 rushing yards. Brown has also been effective on the ground, contributing a rushing touchdown in each game.

Winton Woods’ defense has been lights out, allowing only 11 points across two games. Linebacker Landen Anderson has been a force, recording 13 tackles, 3 tackles for loss, and 2 interceptions. The defense’s ability to create turnovers will be key in this matchup.

Key Matchups:
Luke Brand vs. Winton Woods’ Secondary: Brand has been lethal through the air, but he’ll face a tough test against Winton Woods’ ball-hawking defense, led by Landen Anderson.

Winton Woods’ Running Game vs. Milford’s Front Seven: With Winton Woods relying on its ground attack, Milford’s defensive line, anchored by Jake Dixon, will need to step up and shut down the Warriors’ rushing game.

Editor’s Pick:
Both teams are undefeated and have shown impressive defensive capabilities, but Milford’s high-powered offense, led by Luke Brand and Caden Bailey, gives them the edge. Winton Woods will need a perfect defensive performance to contain Milford’s explosive passing attack.
Prediction: Milford 24, Winton Woods 17
 

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Manmythlegeng66 said:
A lot of kids at LM think with the lack of success that football team is a joke. They would rather find other stuff to do. Also there is a lot of kids who are entitled in that area. Even though they have no business being that way. More recent Alumni think the football program is a joke. There is a lot of animosity especially during the Jones years that positions werent earned they were given out. There were a lot of kids playing wrong positions. I talked to a friend of mine a while back who is a notable coach in the area and the view of the Jones era was Jones is a super nice guy, talented coach young coach, and was given a situation at LM that he wasn't ready for and the politics of that school won. Assistants basically would run over top of him. He probably would have had more success at a smaller school like Goshen or Waynesville. I was a huge fan of Jones and wished it went better for him. Basically from what I head Chenault in a lack of better words is trying to create a culture. I personally hope he blows the whole thing up and rebuilds. He knows talent, he has experienced winning and needs to be trusted.

LM may not win a game this year unfortunately...
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Pretty much 100% what I've heard from my Little Miami people.
 
Turpin leads Walnut 14-7 at the half. Devan Nigam threw two TDs to Turpin receivers and one to a Walnut DB. Walnut offense has looked totally lifeless.
 
Anderson 64
Little Miami 0

Panthers outscored 129-14 so far this season. We need to change our name from Little Miami to Mini Miami after that debauchery.
 
Walnut *maybe* got to 50 yards of total offense as Turpin pulled away from them in a 30-7 loss.

I, for one, cannot wait for a Tank Bowl of glorious proportions next week.
 
mrorcadood said:
It brings me no joy to report this is the biggest margin of victory in any ECC game in the conference's history
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I believe its the biggest margin of victory in LM history as well. I remember a 56-0 loss to Lebanon in '98 the year they won a D2 State Title and we went 0-10. Any other LM people on here remember a worse loss than tonight?
 
PeterDragon said:
I believe its the biggest margin of victory in LM history as well. I remember a 56-0 loss to Lebanon in '98 the year they won a D2 State Title and we went 0-10. Any other LM people on here remember a worse loss than tonight?
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While the loss tonight and that loss to Lebanon is atrocious. They were to a state champ in Lebanon and a state champ contender this year in Anderson. A more pathetic loss I found was a 56-0 loss in 2013 to a 4-6 Talawanda lol.

A side tangent is that it’s humorous LM wants to be called Big Miami as a culture shift (they have it on their shirts this year) and they are performing like this. Just kind of makes you a bigger punching bag.
 
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