2022 GCYL Football

Mad Dogg

Active member
You have always singled out the Bittner and Hambleton Visi teams as kids who are so much older than everyone else. With no proof of course.
 

Omar

Well-known member
You have always singled out the Bittner and Hambleton Visi teams as kids who are so much older than everyone else. With no proof of course.
Bittner’s bday is in the summer. It’s not uncommon at all to turn 18 in the summer before Sr year.

 

OnTheLine85

Well-known member
I’ve coached a long time Trey and never had a kid 2 years older than classmates. Have I had say a 7th grader that’s a couple weeks older than a few of the 8th graders? Yes. Is it 5-6 kids per team as you allege? Of course not. Maybe have had it twice in the last 10 years.
"Have I had say a 7th grader that's a couple weeks older than a few of the 8th graders? Yes." So you admit that as being true with a young 8th grader and an older 7th grader, but the reverse can't be true? You can't have an older 8th grader with a younger 7th grader? Of course you can, and it happens all the time.

I've never said 2 years older in the same grade. I don't even think you can do 2 years within the rules. I've said 12-18 months. And if it's a team that combines two grades, it could be close to 3 years difference between the youngest 7th grade kid and the oldest 8th grade kid. Those are facts, and it happens. And yes, it's happened in the case of your beloved Visitation teams you mention - yes, several of them.

How much of an advantage do you think it gives you to be 1-2 years older competing in the same grade in grade school?
 
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OnTheLine85

Well-known member
Bittner’s bday is in the summer. It’s not uncommon at all to turn 18 in the summer before Sr year.

Again, the educated elite, how much of an advantage was there when him and 4-5 of his very athletic teammates were the oldest kids on their teams (some even older than this), some by 15 months as compared to the youngest kids in their grade, and 24-27 months older to the youngest kids in the grade below them when/if they combined with other grades. This isn't hard.

That's a tremendous advantage when you're 12-14 years old. Not so much when you're 18-22. Which was my point when everyone was saying these kids were the next coming of the 85 Bears. This was also true for the other "crowned" class - alot of kids on the old side that dominated grade school. Kids that had good high school careers, but you knew that domination wouldn't continue when the playing field was equal.

Do these kids typically end up being good in high school? Yes.

Do they dominate in the same way in high school? Almost never. Should you temper your expectations a bit when you know they're older? Also yes. You people take it as a slight to the players, when really it's just reality.

These kids were older and were more physically mature comparatively in grade school. Most are the same size now as they were in 7th and 8th grade. The coaches and fans went all-in on the hype, and relatively ordinary high school careers was the result. Bittner was probably the best of his bunch and a good high school player as he played 3 sports, but again, relatively ordinary achievements. Very good high school football player, decent basketball and baseball player.
 
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OnTheLine85

Well-known member
It's the same group that acts holier than thou about "recruiting" and "cheating" when they lose to Moeller in any sport.
Case in point, the game wasn't even an hour over, and there's an Elder poster blaming Moe for cheating. Literally proved my point perfectly yet again.

I'll never understand the vast inferiority complex for a successful program the extreme right and left E fans have.
 
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OnTheLine85

Well-known member
LOL. Using one poster as an example for an entire fan base. Typical.
Over the years, this fanbase constantly blames refs and other programs cheating because they haven't expanded their recruiting efforts.

Again, why do you constantly dismiss that as being true. This forum has complained about it for a decade and you come along and say "using one poster as an example for an entire fanbase". Why do Elder people do this?

You're really going to make believe this theme never existed?

Let's ask Moeller and the other GCL schools if Elder people constantly complain about other programs cheating. We both know the response we'll get. Yet here you are saying it's isolated.

So so weird. It's just so odd.
 
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Mad Dogg

Active member
Case in point, the game wasn't even an hour over, and there's an Elder poster blaming Moe for cheating. Literally proved my point perfectly yet again.

I'll never understand the vast inferiority complex for a successful program the extreme right and left E fans have.
And we will never understand your obsession.
 

Mad Dogg

Active member
What month were you born Trey? I bet it’s like February or March. That would explain why you are so inferior to those of us born in July and August. That 6 months we are older than you really shows.
 

OnTheLine85

Well-known member
What month were you born Trey? I bet it’s like February or March. That would explain why you are so inferior to those of us born in July and August. That 6 months we are older than you really shows.
There's nothing I posted that was untrue. They were older and more physically mature kids in grade school. It played out in their dominance on the grade school field. People saw this and thought they were the next coming.

People warned to take it easy and temper expectations until the playing field was level (not just me). We turned out to be exactly right, both in the 2019 and the 2022 class - I will ask what is your obsession with continuing to deny it?

People continue to crown and write off classes because of their grade school status and results. Mostly in this forum. And when it's all said and done, they are literally wrong every time, and it's played out that way. Who they say is awesome have been average, and who they say are terrible have had much greater success.

And I love watching a bunch of you try to dance around it by continuing to perpetuate this inferiority myth that I'm making it all up. It's hilarious and very telling.
 
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OnTheLine85

Well-known member
Some others over the years that you will also deny, but are pretty much all true:

1) Constant predictions of state champs and D1 athletes coming out of grade school (99% being wrong)
2) Railing on some of the kids that chose Taylor - even though those kids are the ones playing college ball
3) Denying that teams with a large percentage of older kids on their rosters had anything to do with their dominance
4) Denying that the little Panther teams in baseball and basketball are controlled and directed by former players who set up the program for themselves and their buddies to get "the inside track" on making rosters when they get to Elder
5) Denying that recruiting expansion has nothing to do with taking away opportunity from "our kids"
6) Saying that many other programs "Cheat" to get kids even though it's not illegal
7) Saying that Elder has made great strides in diversity and inclusion and that "everyone is welcome" (unless he's a stud athlete that will take roster spots)
 

Mad Dogg

Active member
Some others over the years that you will also deny, but are pretty much all true:

1) Constant predictions of state champs and D1 athletes coming out of grade school (99% being wrong)
2) Railing on some of the kids that chose Taylor - even though those kids are the ones playing college ball
3) Denying that teams with a large percentage of older kids on their rosters had anything to do with their dominance
4) Denying that the little Panther teams in baseball and basketball are controlled and directed by former players who set up the program for themselves and their buddies to get "the inside track" on making rosters when they get to Elder
5) Denying that recruiting expansion has nothing to do with taking away opportunity from "our kids"
6) Saying that many other programs "Cheat" to get kids even though it's not illegal
7) Saying that Elder has made great strides in diversity and inclusion and that "everyone is welcome" (unless he's a stud athlete that will take roster spots)
Psycho
 

MyNameIsDoug?

Well-known member
Some others over the years that you will also deny, but are pretty much all true:

1) Constant predictions of state champs and D1 athletes coming out of grade school (99% being wrong)
2) Railing on some of the kids that chose Taylor - even though those kids are the ones playing college ball
3) Denying that teams with a large percentage of older kids on their rosters had anything to do with their dominance
4) Denying that the little Panther teams in baseball and basketball are controlled and directed by former players who set up the program for themselves and their buddies to get "the inside track" on making rosters when they get to Elder
5) Denying that recruiting expansion has nothing to do with taking away opportunity from "our kids"
6) Saying that many other programs "Cheat" to get kids even though it's not illegal
7) Saying that Elder has made great strides in diversity and inclusion and that "everyone is welcome" (unless he's a stud athlete that will take roster spots)
Elder has so much real estate in your brain for no reason whatsoever. Some of what you say is for sure true, but the parts that you believe to be true or aren’t widely held thoughts/beliefs…you take those and dramatize them to an insane extent. Why do you care this much about a school you didn’t go to? The 4 GCL schools are all extremely similar, I can promise you that as someone who has connections at all 4. The mentalities, all very similar among the “traditional” or “legacy” students, if you will.
 

OnTheLine85

Well-known member
Some of what you say is for sure true
I know it is - yet so very hard for people here to come clean with. Why?

I'd argue I live rent free in their head. If I was completely wrong, I wouldn't continue to get this reaction. I just find it quite hilarious people continue to deny obvious things.
 

OnTheLine85

Well-known member
Elder has so much real estate in your brain for no reason whatsoever.
Not really - just speaking the truth. It's my mission to call out the consistent BS spewed in this thread, led by the ringleader of being wrong - pboy. Literally everything he says the opposite happens.

I like 90% of Elder people. But damn, those other 10% that play the holier than thou card about "recruiting" and "cheating", and the entitled groups that are sitting in the background setting up things for them and theirs - needs to be called out.
 
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Mad Dogg

Active member
Not really - just speaking the truth. It's my mission to call out the consistent BS spewed in this thread, led by the ringleader of being wrong - pboy. Literally everything he says the opposite happens.

I like 90% of Elder people. But damn, those other 10% that play the holier than thou card about "recruiting" and "cheating", and the entitled groups that are sitting in the background setting up things for them and theirs - needs to be called out.
Your mission? What a loser. Find something better to do with your life.
 

OnTheLine85

Well-known member
Your mission? What a loser. Find something better to do with your life.
You just like don't someone shining the light on it.

How many times do you need to tell me I'm crazy or a loser? It obviously hits a nerve with you when I bring these things up. If it was completely out of left field, you would ignore it.

The ones that come at me the most here don't do it because I'm wrong, they do it to protect that entitlement.
 
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OnTheLine85

Well-known member
pboy - disagrees with me just to disagree, but we agree on more things than he will admit
adselder - at least comes with logical arguments and is open to what can be better
JElder, Don Flamenco, cincifbfan, ?????, and FourthandOne - good insight but also not afraid to call them out on things that need to change

And then these guys below who will do whatever they can to hold onto their privileged entitlement and cannot fathom positive change different from what they're used to. The "it's how we've always done it" guys with zero openness for anything new or different.

MadDog
purplemojo
1965Panther
 

JElder

Well-known member
Some others over the years that you will also deny, but are pretty much all true:

1) Constant predictions of state champs and D1 athletes coming out of grade school (99% being wrong)
2) Railing on some of the kids that chose Taylor - even though those kids are the ones playing college ball
3) Denying that teams with a large percentage of older kids on their rosters had anything to do with their dominance
4) Denying that the little Panther teams in baseball and basketball are controlled and directed by former players who set up the program for themselves and their buddies to get "the inside track" on making rosters when they get to Elder
5) Denying that recruiting expansion has nothing to do with taking away opportunity from "our kids"
6) Saying that many other programs "Cheat" to get kids even though it's not illegal
7) Saying that Elder has made great strides in diversity and inclusion and that "everyone is welcome" (unless he's a stud athlete that will take roster spots)
Little Panthers don’t have baseball teams.

As far as basketball goes, wouldn’t you agree that former players would be likely coaches due to knowing the game? Little Panther kids have also been a HUGE help with Elder winning more consistently. One of the 1st LP teams to exist was the Keller Harp Kirch teams. It’s been a great avenue for kids to play ball against dif comp than they see in WBC all season long. And ps, anyone who wants to start a LP team and is willing to coach can make a phone call and get a team together tomorrow.
 

1965 Panther

Active member
pboy - disagrees with me just to disagree, but we agree on more things than he will admit
adselder - at least comes with logical arguments and is open to what can be better
JElder, Don Flamenco, cincifbfan, ?????, and FourthandOne - good insight but also not afraid to call them out on things that need to change

And then these guys below who will do whatever they can to hold onto their privileged entitlement and cannot fathom positive change different from what they're used to. The "it's how we've always done it" guys with zero openness for anything new or different.

MadDog
purplemojo
1965Panther
The last time I made a prestigious list like this was the email I got that I won a Lowes snow blower.
 

OnTheLine85

Well-known member
Little Panthers don’t have baseball teams.

As far as basketball goes, wouldn’t you agree that former players would be likely coaches due to knowing the game? Little Panther kids have also been a HUGE help with Elder winning more consistently. One of the 1st LP teams to exist was the Keller Harp Kirch teams. It’s been a great avenue for kids to play ball against dif comp than they see in WBC all season long. And ps, anyone who wants to start a LP team and is willing to coach can make a phone call and get a team together tomorrow.
I thought baseball used Westars as their "pipeline" into the Elder baseball program. Maybe that's changed.

And for basketball, I agree and disagree. I agree having past players helps in teaching the game. What I don't agree with is more often than not, it's normally a dad and a buddy who's the assistant, and their others buddies who make up the team. And SOME (not all) of those kids simply are on the team because of associations, not because they're among the best players in the grade. Some grades are worse than others based on how connected the coaches are to the Elder program.

Also, I think it's a great opportunity to get outside kids interested in Elder at an early age. Open up the tryouts to everyone - in fact, they typically don't even have tryouts at the younger grades, it's hand-picked, and when they do have tryouts, it's only for kids that are going to Elder. That's a huge miss imo, and it's done to protect spots for these hand-chosen kids. You won't convince me it's not, as the teams rarely change from who's on the top team vs. who's not, and from who's on the team in grade school vs. who makes the teams in high school.

I'm not going to go back and do an analysis, but the vast majority of kids playing on the 5th grade team end up making the Elder team. That's just not realistic if you're truly assessing talent and improvement and making real roster decisions every year.
 
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OnTheLine85

Well-known member
Also, the coaches will tell you that "this isn't affiliated with Elder" - which is complete BS and they know it. They will also say "anyone can start their own team" but those coaching the top teams have a direct line into Elder, and know the kids on their team have an inside advantage because of it, and will do whatever it takes for their kid to be on that top team to help give them any edge they can when it comes time to pick teams when they get to Elder. This is absolutely where the dads will start maneuvering behind the scenes to curry favor for their kids to stay on that top team, sometimes when they're not among the most talented. There's a reason dads are willing to coach that program - they know how it works. I've heard this first-hand from many over the years.

It's hilarious to witness and even funnier when they deny that's what's going on. By varsity, it all works itself out, but those kids 100% have an advantage and a door opened up for them in the early years. Again, if this is how they want to do it - fine, I don't care - but can we please stop denying this is how it's done? This is one of the areas where it's absolutely true, but people will always deny it. Those people denying, I'm convinced, are the ones trying to protect their opportunity.
 
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Omar

Well-known member
The last time I made a prestigious list like this was the email I got that I won a Lowes snow blower.
What he considers us “agreeing” on things, is him copying things I’ve been saying for over a decade. Him attacking the grade school staffs is not one of those things. I appreciate the Feeder system, but there’s usually not enough talent alone to be competitive at a high level. That doesn’t mean the feeder system isn’t valuable. They need that to be the foundation of the program.
 

OnTheLine85

Well-known member
I haven't been copying it, I've just been one of the few actually posting it. Most proud Elder people talk about the very same things in person they just don't post them here. Trust me, you're not alone in some of your opinions.

And I'm not attacking the grade school staffs, I'm sure they do a fine job coaching and teaching the game. But it involves the same "connected" approach, probably even moreso. There's just not much there to expand their talent pool, which as I've argued for years, is just the way they like it. They don't want the internal competition, so they hoard the opportunity. And it sucks for kids on the outside that are decent players, both feeder and non-feeder, that can't get opportunities for those top teams in each grade, because those top teams are controlled by Elder legacy players and their buddies.

It's 100% part of the reasons some families I know sent their kids to X and even Taylor. And their kids did awesome and some won state titles at X.
 

JElder

Well-known member
I thought baseball used Westars as their "pipeline" into the Elder baseball program. Maybe that's changed.

And for basketball, I agree and disagree. I agree having past players helps in teaching the game. What I don't agree with is more often than not, it's normally a dad and a buddy who's the assistant, and their others buddies who make up the team. And SOME (not all) of those kids simply are on the team because of associations, not because they're among the best players in the grade. Some grades are worse than others based on how connected the coaches are to the Elder program.

Also, I think it's a great opportunity to get outside kids interested in Elder at an early age. Open up the tryouts to everyone - in fact, they typically don't even have tryouts at the younger grades, it's hand-picked, and when they do have tryouts, it's only for kids that are going to Elder. That's a huge miss imo, and it's done to protect spots for these hand-chosen kids. You won't convince me it's not, as the teams rarely change from who's on the top team vs. who's not, and from who's on the team in grade school vs. who makes the teams in high school.

I'm not going to go back and do an analysis, but the vast majority of kids playing on the 5th grade team end up making the Elder team. That's just not realistic if you're truly assessing talent and improvement and making real roster decisions every year.
Weststars is not an affiliate of Elder at all. Anyone who wants to start a Weststars team is able to. Obviously Little Panthers is a feeder org for Elder just like Little Lancers is for LaSalle. X also has teams that feed for them. These are not AAU orgs that play year round. Tryouts for Panther teams usually start in 7th grade. At the younger levels it’s typically a dad who takes all the time putting a team together and of course it’s done with people that Coach knows. Again, if someone wants their kid playing hoops outside of the grade schools they can start their own team. Some grades have 4 teams playing different levels of comp. This is a great thing considering all these players are getting more minutes and getting training from grade school coach and Panthers coach. By the time 7th grade rolls around there are 10-12 players picked to play for the top team. The kids that don’t make that team can still play for panthers in a league that is better suited for their ability at that time. It keeps them interested in the game and gives them the ability to get better. You are wrong on this topic and obviously not close to the situation and going off silly comments that you have been supposedly told by a few parents.

At the younger levels you can have kids that will probably go to X or LaSalle or wherever. Once they hit 7th grade they want kids that are most likely going to Elder. If the kid isn’t sure where he wants to go to school he can still play Panthers. The only kids getting weeded out by this time are kids who are def not going to Elder. Almost always that kid who wants to go to LaSalle or X Will then play for their AAU team or a team that feeds into said school they want to attend.
 

OnTheLine85

Well-known member
Weststars is not an affiliate of Elder at all. Anyone who wants to start a Weststars team is able to. Obviously Little Panthers is a feeder org for Elder just like Little Lancers is for LaSalle. X also has teams that feed for them. These are not AAU orgs that play year round. Tryouts for Panther teams usually start in 7th grade. At the younger levels it’s typically a dad who takes all the time putting a team together and of course it’s done with people that Coach knows. Again, if someone wants their kid playing hoops outside of the grade schools they can start their own team. Some grades have 4 teams playing different levels of comp. This is a great thing considering all these players are getting more minutes and getting training from grade school coach and Panthers coach. By the time 7th grade rolls around there are 10-12 players picked to play for the top team. The kids that don’t make that team can still play for panthers in a league that is better suited for their ability at that time. It keeps them interested in the game and gives them the ability to get better. You are wrong on this topic and obviously not close to the situation and going off silly comments that you have been supposedly told by a few parents.

At the younger levels you can have kids that will probably go to X or LaSalle or wherever. Once they hit 7th grade they want kids that are most likely going to Elder. If the kid isn’t sure where he wants to go to school he can still play Panthers. The only kids getting weeded out by this time are kids who are def not going to Elder. Almost always that kid who wants to go to LaSalle or X Will then play for their AAU team or a team that feeds into said school they want to attend.
Fair enough - just feels a little too "in the family" where past players, their kids and their buddies are getting the bulk of the opportunities. Would be cool to open up the program to some outside talent, but doesn't seem to be in the cards.
 
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