Omar
Well-known member
Those are the 2 exceptions of the last 30 years, excluding super freak athletes like Kyler Murray.
2022 Elder Football
- Thread starter pantherland
- Start date
Off the top of my head there’s 6. Royer, James, Kamdra, Larkins, Beckenhaupt and Stemler. A few walk ons too like Nieman and Bittner. Some D2 guys also like Sandhaus.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
No way Drew Brees is 6ft. He was also outstanding at D1 College Football. Elder has a lot of very good HS Football Players but that doesn’t always translate to D1 College. Very good HS Players usually does lead to having a solid Team from top to bottom. Nothing wrong with that, means they should always have a real chance to win every game.
PantherVOR
Well-known member
Omar will never be happy with that. I kind of feel sorry for him.
adselder09
Well-known member
So what do you think it is then? Can't just be a lack of social media presence. Sounds like you've got some beef with the way Elder handles recruitment of their players, if so please elaborate and stop beating around the bush.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
Don’t feel sorry for him, some people just don’t understand the different levels of athletics. He is blinded by being Elder Football super Fan! You are well aware of this.
Omar
Well-known member
I said kids can be studs at the HS level and not be high D1 recruits. I even gave examples of that from other GCL schools. My point is that those kids are talented, not just a bunch of scrappy tryhards.
I still stand by my assertion, Elder needs to branch out beyond the feeders for talent. The feeder system provides a good base, but they’re not enough to compete consistently with the top programs. And that’s why I told you nostalgia is dangerous, the Feeder system simply isn’t good enough on its own anymore. You’ve got to adapt or get left behind. If you think I’m wrong, there’s a very good chance Elder’s starting QB will be coming from outside the traditional feeder system (Walnut Hills or St John Harrison)
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Omar
Well-known member
Brees and Wilson are the exceptions to the rule. In 99% of cases, if you’re not at least 6 ft, you won’t get looked at by D1 schools as a QB.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
I’m not sure he has a beef with how Elder handles the recruitment of their student athletes. Some people just don’t understand big time Hs athletics vs big time college athletics.
Omar
Well-known member
I’m not blinded, but I’d like to see Elder bring in more talent. The Feeder system isn’t enough on its own. I wish it was, because it would be a hell of a lot less stressful to run the program. However, that’s not the reality and it’s important to adapt.
OnTheLine85
Well-known member
Is it stressful now for those running the program? Who's under stress? They seem pretty content with who they are.
Omar
Well-known member
Stressful/frustrating, which ever word you want to use. Ramsey alluded to this in his comments about NIL.
ElderHSfan02
Well-known member
Big time athletics I think of Power 5 conferences. Those are filled with 3, 4, 5 star recruits. There are many other conferences for the lower level D1 HS prospects to play in. Some schools/kids are getting the offers, some aren't. I get covid/extra year of eligibility is somewhat to blame. I'm just questioning the process, and the why. I see a 6'2" stud from Elder who has speed and athleticism with NCAA D1 lineage and I'm still shocked with the lack of offers. The other was Hambleton who should have at minimum had IVY league offers.
Outside of Oline/TE, Elder seems to get a pass from NCAA D1. Peyton was an exception, he had the height and the running ability they look for now at the college level. He checked off all the boxes.
It's been talked about many times on here, not really worth continuing to talk about. Moving on to new season.
OnTheLine85
Well-known member
I think alot of this comes down to comparisons. People don't see lists of signees like you see from Moe and X and they think someone isn't doing something. From all accounts I've heard, Ramsey and staff have great reputations. I don't think any of this is because the coaches aren't making it a priority. It's just very, very hard to play high level D1 football, and the biggest attributes they consider are size, speed and athleticism.
I think everyone will agree Drew Ramsey is an outstanding football player. Dominated games - but will a player like Re get more college interest simply because of elite speed? Probably. Part of me thinks it's crazy too, because I'd offer Ramsey a scholarship in a heartbeat after seeing him play. And that was the coach's son who by all accounts has good connections and college relationships.
I will say that whatever they can do to increase team speed should be an emphasis. I do think there's a significant difference there, for whatever reason. I'm sure they do speed training, so I'm not sure why. I don't know that anyone else was a sure fire D1 recruit from a speed standpoint. Hambleton had a decent arm, but didn't possess many other D1 attributes. Harp was a very good high school receiver, but again, had limited speed.
I think everyone will agree Drew Ramsey is an outstanding football player. Dominated games - but will a player like Re get more college interest simply because of elite speed? Probably. Part of me thinks it's crazy too, because I'd offer Ramsey a scholarship in a heartbeat after seeing him play. And that was the coach's son who by all accounts has good connections and college relationships.
I will say that whatever they can do to increase team speed should be an emphasis. I do think there's a significant difference there, for whatever reason. I'm sure they do speed training, so I'm not sure why. I don't know that anyone else was a sure fire D1 recruit from a speed standpoint. Hambleton had a decent arm, but didn't possess many other D1 attributes. Harp was a very good high school receiver, but again, had limited speed.
I don’t think you realize how much the portal has changed recruiting. Just looking at a few MAC schools, Miami only took 17 high school kids but 8 power 5 transfers. That’s insane. Ohio only took 12 high school kids. Toledo that usually recruits Cincinnati only took a 11 high school kids. The amount of high school kids getting MAC scholarships were literally cut in half.
OnTheLine85
Well-known member
Well NIL got shut down so it's not really a worry (yet) for coaches.
I can't imagine how hard it is to convince a kid from the East or North to even consider Elder. It's just too far. X and Moe can pull from all over the city and have kids on capmus is probably 20 minutes because they're more centrally located to more people.
OnTheLine85
Well-known member
I realize it - but people are also talking like Elder had several sure-fire D1 players, and that simply isn't true. Ramsey was by far their best player/athlete, and he couldn't make it happen. Below are some recent GCL players just off the top of my head below that have obvious D1 talent - outside of Ramsey, Elder didn't have players in this category of athlete.
Terrell McFarlin
Max Klare
Grant Lyons
Brandon White
Jordan Marshall
Tennell Bryant
Charles Kellom
Liam Clifford
EDIT - I did just read that Elder has Chris Kammerer at Ohio as a PWO from last year's team. But if I recall, that kid was FAST.
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Omar
Well-known member
Unless they’re dad is a grad, they’re probably not going to. That’s why they need to draw in more CPS and Central area kids (Bacon Feeders). It’s also why kids from NKY not being able to play sports in Ohio, really hurts them.
ElderHSfan02
Well-known member
That makes sense and is a shame. It's almost like the Power 5 schoos bench is a minor league for the lower level D1 schools.
ElderHSfan02
Well-known member
Ramsey was big and fast enough. He also had PWO from UC, but from reports on here has decided not to pursue it. Nothing wrong with that.
Orin Swift
Well-known member
A lot of college recruiting nowadays is also on the kid going to camps in the off-season and performing well there. Not to say the high school season and high school coach are no longer relevant, they are, but a lot of emphasis is placed on these camps. Not sure if Elder is supportive/helpful in getting kids to these camps. I remember reading about Moore, after he moved from LaSalle to Massillon, taking a bus of kids to Pitt for a camp when Thayer Munford was there.
As Mad Dogg mentioned as well, the portal is really changing the recruiting game for high school kids. MAC level conference coaches are now spending time recruiting 4 and 5 star kids to develop a relationship in the event they transfer in a couple years. Then they recruit the portal for plug and play upperclassmen transfers. That time and those scholarship spots in the past were used to recruit HS kids.
As Mad Dogg mentioned as well, the portal is really changing the recruiting game for high school kids. MAC level conference coaches are now spending time recruiting 4 and 5 star kids to develop a relationship in the event they transfer in a couple years. Then they recruit the portal for plug and play upperclassmen transfers. That time and those scholarship spots in the past were used to recruit HS kids.
ElderHSfan02
Well-known member
That was what I was told by someone, but last year on here someone said the camps are overrated and are money makers. I don't know who to believe, but I'm sure it's a little of both.
Orin Swift
Well-known member
The Rivals, 24/7, Elite 11, etc camps are definitely overrated and money makers - if a kid is objectively the 100th ranked recruit and camps at Rivals but not 24/7, Rivals will put him at like 80 and 24/7 will put him at 120. Essentially enticing kids to pay for their camp. They still have value though, it’s hard to gather data and film on 10s of thousands of kids across the country playing at different levels of competition. But their primary concern is making money.
I was referring more to camps like ones OSU holds and coaches from Toledo, Kent, Mt Union, Ashland, etc. attend so coaches can see kids of all levels in one place.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
PWO and Full Scholarship are 2 different things. Again Ramsey was hands down Elder’s best player and he literally received 0 scholarship offers from Power 5 Schools. That’s the difference in the levels of play right there. This really has nothing to do with what Elder is doing or not doing involving potential recruits. How many years Omar been talking about Hambleton being a D1 prospect? Obviously he is the only person who thinks this. I know this sounds crazy but you and I can watch a Game along with a College HC or Assistant and have seriously differing opinions on the player we are all watching. Just the way it is. Covid has hurt some kids but also helped some others.
OnTheLine85
Well-known member
Pretty spot on - I think alot of people think a kid that is good in high school could be a D1 player. Most people don't understand the type of athlete it takes to get there. ELITE speed, size or athleticism (or a combination).
The two best athletes I've seen at Elder in the last few years were Ramsey and Luebbe - neither got D1 scholarships, and they were REALLY REALLY good. And there isn't anyone I've seen on the current Elder roster that's in the category of those two.
I’d easily argue that no one on this list is as good as Royer, Kandra and James were either.
OnTheLine85
Well-known member
I think it's a similar level of talent to the 3 you mentioned - but that's why that team was D1 state runner ups - add Luebbe and Ramsey to those 3 and you're very dangerous. That's an atypical level of talent for your typical Elder team, but they do have those years every now and then.
But last year's squad and this year's upcoming squad doesn't have near that level of talent. I think that's pretty obvious based on results and college level signees.
Royer and Kandra are still getting scholarships during covid - James - maybe, maybe not.
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ElderHSfan02
Well-known member
I completely understand the difference between PWO and Full Scholarship. I don't think you can fault Omar for thinking that, because you had posters not affiliated with Elder saying they were both D1 recruits. In some years they probably were. Covid obviously hurt, but then again some players are getting the offers that I don't necessarily think were better players or talents. And yes, I understand a lot of it is measurables that some players don't check the boxes. No one will convince me Ramsey isn't a D1 player(maybe not Big Ten or SEC), but he fit somewhere and some programs missed out.
OnTheLine85
Well-known member
I completely agree on Ramsey, but who else on last year's roster got screwed out of a D1 offer because of covid? I think people are vastly over-stating the talent level. That level of talent you are describing for 3-4 other players at Elder almost always shows up in W-L record, deep tournament runs and scholarship offers. They were 6-6 and almost lost in the first round of the playoffs.