2021 Massillon Football

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Massillon#82 said:
I would think during a 4 year career that a kid had
143 rec for 2,737 yds and 39 TD’s not to mention
he also threw for 2 TD’s and had a punt return and a KO return for a TD and played for teams that went a combined 48-8 that there wouldn’t be talk of how many penalties or yards he had. But I guess in 2021 everyone is always looking for anything negative in literally every story.
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No one can discuss a player without being vilified for bashing a kid. I believe we can have an honest discussion of the team / coaches /players without being chastised for telling the TRUTH.

Everyone that watched Ballard play, knows, that he caused the team problems with his penalties, as well as how he played when going over the middle or anytime he was going to absorb a hard hit (Why was he removed as a punter returner)?

If you think any player going on to the next level, is going to be dealt with on message boards and by fans, with the silent treatment, in reference to his problems on the field, your kidding yourself.

An honest discussion, as long as it's a constructive discussion, only helps in making the player aware that his problems (you think he hasn't heard the same thing from the coaches and other players) are no secret and to improve BEFORE he moves on and is cut from a team because of these problems!

Player Records - Single Game Receiving - MassillonTigers.com

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Player Records - Single Season Receiving - MassillonTigers.com

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Player Records - Career Receiving - MassillonTigers.com

massillontigers.com massillontigers.com
 
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pup pounder said:
With the speed we have all a qb needs to do is sling it 50 60 yards and they can run it down. I'd like to see less predictability in our play calling. You can't second guess a coach who's taken us to three straight title games tho.?
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This is what not to do as Massillon. They did this the past 3 years with Lamp and Ballard. From what I have watched is that they have always had the QB arm strength over the past 3 years. If they want to get over the hump they need to establish a hard nose ground game. They have the OL size to do it. This is what Hoban and LaSale have done to be successful. Hoban had a 4 year starter at QB with a great Ivy Leaguer, Alabama TE, and B1G WR and they still primarily ran the ball 75-80% of the time. It’s fun to watch the big pass plays but running the ball is the key to success IMO.
TBH I think Massillon has had the defense to win titles with, loved watching their hard nosed LBs over the years flying around.
 
DB135 said:
No one can discuss a player without being vilified for bashing a kid. I believe we can have an honest discussion of the team / coaches /players without being chastised for telling the TRUTH.

Everyone that watched Ballard play, knows, that he caused the team problems with his penalties, as well as how he played when going over the middle or anytime he was going to absorb a hard hit (Why was he removed as a punter returner)?

If you think any player going on to the next level, is going to be dealt with on message boards and by fans, with the silent treatment, in reference to his problems on the field, your kidding yourself.

An honest discussion, as long as it's a constructive discussion, only helps in making the player aware that his problems (you think he hasn't heard the same thing from the coaches and other players) are no secret and to improve BEFORE he moves on and is cut from a team because of these problems!
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When exactly was he going over the middle? People always say crap about him being scared going over the middle but reality is that he was never asked to go over the middle as all they had him do was run deep or catch screens. Also, this has been mentioned in the past but he was directly told by the coaches to get out of bounds and not take extra hits so can we please stop bashing him for doing exactly what he was told to do and run the routes he was told.
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
When exactly was he going over the middle? People always say crap about him being scared going over the middle but reality is that he was never asked to go over the middle as all they had him do was run deep or catch screens. Also, this has been mentioned in the past but he was directly told by the coaches to get out of bounds and not take extra hits so can we please stop bashing him for doing exactly what he was told to do and run the routes he was told.
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He was probably "directly told by the coaches" to stop getting unsportsmanlikes too.
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
When exactly was he going over the middle? People always say crap about him being scared going over the middle but reality is that he was never asked to go over the middle as all they had him do was run deep or catch screens. Also, this has been mentioned in the past but he was directly told by the coaches to get out of bounds and not take extra hits so can we please stop bashing him for doing exactly what he was told to do and run the routes he was told.
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Like I said people watched him play for three years and are objectively aware of his performance. If you'd rather TRY to ignore what was clear to anyone witnessing his performance, that's up to you.

Lets not play games with the type of play. Lets leave it at "when he was anticipating contact on a play, where he could see / feel he was about to be hit".

I challenge you to produce game film, that will illustrate his game performance, where you can verify the truth objectively and see who is accurately making an assessment and not bashing a player and who is lying and trying to mischaracterize the evaluation?!

If you want to try and mischaracterize what was objectively obvious to ANYONE watching him play, lets see who is accurate and offering an objective opinion and not bashing a player, when he starts play this fall?!

I know it was clear to ANYONE witnessing him play (Why was he removed as punt returner, AFTER originally being started there, obviously that brings into question your comment about the coaches wanting him to avoid a hit, when he was originally started there, when that is ONE of the worst places to play him, if you're trying to avoid that kind of contact?!).

To mischaracterize ANY objective comment, when posters are discussing players performance, is disingenuous, by whoever is making it and in fact is a lie, trying to cover for a problem that needs corrected.

For all those posters who believe the only true fans are those that go to the extent of lying about a member of the program and mischaracterizing and trying marginalize those who make it (objective, honest criticism) are doing no favor to the team and its performance.
 
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Massillon#82 said:
For someone that is always so self righteous on this forum why would you want to bash a kid anyway ?
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Why did you take one comment out of the post, to attempt to mischaracterize the post and marginalize the poster?!

The comment was in reference to an HONEST discussion of performance, that was being attempted in this thread and WHY would a poster want to do it?

He wouldn't but was having his comment mischaracterized and it was an attempt to be marginalized for trying to honestly discuss it!

This comes up every time posters on this forum discuss the the coaches / teams / players performance. There is ALWAYS someone who wants to mischaracterize the posters motives instead of continuing an objective evaluation.

Again we'll see this fall, if the same deference is given to any player, once they reach the next level by anyone?!

I guarantee you that the first game he costs the team a game, he will be benched and in danger of losing his scholarship.

Did he avoid contact ONLY because he was coached that way or did it have something to do with the same reason he was removed as a punt returner?

We'll see, very soon, if these are accurate assessments, that anyone watching him play could see and that evaluation is accurate, as well as those making it aren't haters, that are being mischaracterized by making that comment?!

Fans of the teams, at the next level, are neither haters or disloyal to the team they follow.

They KNOW that the next player, on the depth chart is "probably" as talented and will give NO player the chance to hurt the teams performance because of problems in his performance (whether correctable or not)!
 
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Is discussion of the reasons for our performance in the state finals allowed?!

The teams performance has been discussed involving the talent level (including specific players and criticisms of those that left), playing calling (coaching) and performance of team that needs improved (defense of the QB option) which were primary causes for the losses.

A posters previous posts is cause to call him out for bashing ANYTHING / ONE and we know who the trolls are.

To allow a discussion of the teams prospects, for the upcoming season and their performance in the playoffs, in a constructive manner are open topics for discussion.

Those that try to limit or eliminate any honest discussion, in the name of bashing are lairs and hypocrites, that are doing a disservice to the team.

I could care less what they think about constructive posts, about ANY part of the program, as they attempt to mischaracterize it and marginalize those who make it.

THEY are the problem and not those that make them.


We all know coaches who are afraid to discipline great players because they think it will either affect their performance or they will leave the program.

When a player is out of control and not being subjected to strict discipline it affects the whole team!

I posted the team receiving records and his performance was outstanding.

Most coaches would disagree that performance cancels discipline and allows anything, as long as his performance is good.

We all know how far that will go at the next level and it will hurt him there because these problems weren't corrected last year.

Just as puzzling is the comment that players were coached to avoid hits. Before, after or both, prior to, before / after the catch is made?

I find it hard to believe that the coaches would try to teach a player to PRIMARILY avoid a big hit, which could mean that he runs out of bounds, losing valuable yardage, causing the team to punt, or more ridiculous is just miss the ball if that what it takes, to avoid a hit.

He could justify doing that by the reasoning that its' more important to be available the rest of the season and potentially lose a game, than get hurt and be out for a significant time?!

Finally how does that figure into the receivers blocking?!
 
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John Lee Pettimore said:
He was probably "directly told by the coaches" to stop getting unsportsmanlikes too.
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The unsportsmanlike penalties by him and other players was unacceptable and should have been addressed immediately and in a manner that got through to them that if they continued they would not be on the field. That is on the coaches for allowing that behavior to continue ??‍♂️
 
Perhaps Ballard was replaced as punt returner because they thought Martavien’s ability to make cuts and read the blocks was better? ??‍♂️ Also martavien was unavailable for the first half of the Ed’s game so maybe that’s also why JB was back there to begin with.
 
If you’re so out of the loop that you are unaware that JB and Lamp were told by their coaches to get out of bounds and avoid hits then idk what to tell ya. Also I’m not sure how you watched him for 4 years and ignore all of the contested catches he made and pretend that he was asked to run over the middle much at all.
 
I like players with attitude or showboating. Whatever you want to call it. Putting some excitement in the games. I totally bleed orange and black. Making me a Bengals fan. Like Chad Johnson. Talking . & Burfict was not afraid to make hits. You can say the same about Hines Ward taken cheap shots. Them boys made it a game to watch.
As far as Massillon. I think Moore is doing a great job.
I'm not worried about a down season. I would hear all the time how the jv won the Thursday night game . That tells me. we have some play makers coming in.
Down to what 27 days 11 hours to kick off. Let's get this
 
Gardiner said:
I like players with attitude or showboating. Whatever you want to call it. Putting some excitement in the games. I totally bleed orange and black. Making me a Bengals fan. Like Chad Johnson. Talking . & Burfict was not afraid to make hits. You can say the same about Hines Ward taken cheap shots. Them boys made it a game to watch.
As far as Massillon. I think Moore is doing a great job.
I'm not worried about a down season. I would hear all the time how the jv won the Thursday night game . That tells me. we have some play makers coming in.
Down to what 27 days 11 hours to kick off. Let's get this
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Definitely rather have guys playing with an edge and confidence than not.
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
Definitely rather have guys playing with an edge and confidence than not.
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As would I but playing with an edge and confidence is different than CONSTANTLY putting your team in tough situations because you can't control your emotions.

There's a thing called "mental toughness" if you can't control your emotions enough to walk away when you're being goaded into confrontation, you lack it.
 
I got no problem with showboating. I’m sure we know Massillon fans get more involved and louder the more scrappy, closer, longer games get, more calls that go against we get as a fan base. You just gotta know when to be smart with it. I think Tre’von was always able to find a way to get the crowd involved without being penalized.
 
My goodness. Ballard is no longer here but since some of you insist there are very clear portions of his on field performance that have the potential to limit his potential success in Scarlet and Grey. He has a high ceiling, but he will need to change to reach the ceiling. This is no longer a case of big fish small pond. Truth be told the room he is now a part of is over flowing with talent and is maybe the most accumulation of talent, by any one position group, on any one team in the nation. This by itself is a testament to what he has achieved at this point. He has an unbelievable opportunity to experience something few ever get the chance to experience.

There is truth and reality in both of the positions being taken, those truths do not make the other invalid. The personal fouls are one thing and are easily correctable. They will get changed or he will not be where he is very long. His did not cause us to lose football games. His participation in obtaining personal fouls is not OK because others got them either, and he earned the ones he got. He is lucky he didn't get more! His flamboyance is not some outlandish anomaly in the sport, but it also is very subject to criticism and if you want to be a look at me kind of player then both sides of I see you are justified! I do not see this as bad, as long as he learns to controls it. If he can control it, it becomes an advantage for him. Controlling it becomes the difference between a psychological advantage or disadvantage.

The other concern is not easily correctable. He is contact adverse and you can say what you want, you can try and justify it how you want, but anyone who has watched the sport it is clearly visible. There is a reason track speed does not always translate to the Football field. Now some players can be contact adverse and still be very successful. Does he possess the pure abilities necessary to overcome it? We will see. These are not kids anymore, they are young men and the contact is extreme. Football is a physical sport and that physicality level just went up exponentially. This in my opinion IS his number 1 obstacle between success and failure moving forward. Some people are just not capable of this kind of contact. It does not make them any less of a human. Some folks are just very pain tolerant, others are not. I am not saying he is soft. What I am saying is he is normal in this aspect as most human beings, which is something most long term football players are not!

He made great plays here, provided pressure to the defense of every team Massillon played and needed to be accounted for at all times. He didn't make or break Massillon as a team. He was part of the special journey that group of players and couches went on and I enjoyed getting to witness their journey. I wish him well and look forward to seeing how he develops. Great player!
 
pup pounder said:
With the speed we have all a qb needs to do is sling it 50 60 yards and they can run it down. I'd like to see less predictability in our play calling. You can't second guess a coach who's taken us to three straight title games tho.?
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Agreed......Moore could use a little more imagination in offensive play calling. They'll need it from the start. Pick Central has a defense that will destroy most offenses in Ohio. That should be a fun game. Hopefully, Paul Brown will have over 10,000 for that one.
 
garydaddy1 said:
Agreed......Moore could use a little more imagination in offensive play calling. They'll need it from the start. Pick Central has a defense that will destroy most offenses in Ohio. That should be a fun game. Hopefully, Paul Brown will have over 10,000 for that one.
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Yep, I’d be planning for a front 7 just as stingy as Hoban’s last year so we will need some plan of attack that doesn’t involve relying on simply overpowering them in the trenches.

A PC fan had said that they don’t travel well for games but maybe they will for the opener ??‍♂️
Hard to get great crowd sizes when the opponent only brings a few hundred
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
Yep, I’d be planning for a front 7 just as stingy as Hoban’s last year so we will need some plan of attack that doesn’t involve relying on simply overpowering them in the trenches.

A PC fan had said that they don’t travel well for games but maybe they will for the opener ??‍♂️
Hard to get great crowd sizes when the opponent only brings a few hundred
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Screens, misdirection, play action pass etc. maybe they will get nuts and throw a slant and maybe a 7 yard out. ???
We can’t come out and be vanilla or we will be 0-1 going into GO.
 
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