2021-2022 General Discussion

eastisbest said:
Did I misread what I saw? Wisky put hands on first. I was all ready to call Howard a joke, just from the headline. The video seemed to show the Wisc guy engage.

It's a handshake line. Not hard to do. You shut your mouth, walk the line and go piss in the locker. Howard is just the more visible character here.
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I thought it looked like the Wisky head coach was trying to make a point and put his hand on him to slow him down then Howard escalated. What a mess.
 
Gard should have let him blow by in the handshake line. Know your personnel. Howard got into it in a testy situation against Maryland last year and needed to be restrained.

This situation appears to have started because Howard was butthurt that Gard called a timeout with under 20 seconds left up double digits. Gard called a timeout late to organize his team because knucklehead Howard was trying to press and trap down by double digits with under 20 seconds left. He effectively went off the rails because Gard continued coaching his team as a result of him choosing to continue to coach his team instead of letting Wisconsin dribble the ball out.
 
Kind of a pick your best view. I like the one at 1:40, shows the insane angle to the floor of Ivey's legs. Must have stickem on his shoes.

 
nwwarrior09 said:
Gard should have let him blow by in the handshake line. Know your personnel. Howard got into it in a testy situation against Maryland last year and needed to be restrained.

This situation appears to have started because Howard was butthurt that Gard called a timeout with under 20 seconds left up double digits. Gard called a timeout late to organize his team because knucklehead Howard was trying to press and trap down by double digits with under 20 seconds left. He effectively went off the rails because Gard continued coaching his team as a result of him choosing to continue to coach his team instead of letting Wisconsin dribble the ball out.
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Both are at fault, but Howard acted the worst of the two. I wouldn’t fire Howard, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he does get the boot. IMO, I’d suspend him the rest of the yr, and make sure he knows that’s strike 2. I also believe Gard should be suspended for a game for his behavior.

I will also say Howard is being a b**ch for getting upset over the TO. It’s ok for him to continue to press with his starters in a game that’s over but not ok for Wisky to use a TO to help out their walk ons?
 
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Omar said:
Both are at fault, but Howard acted the worst of the two. I wouldn’t fire Howard, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he does get the boot. IMO, I’d suspend him the rest of the yr, and make sure he knows that’s strike 2. I also believe Gard should be suspended for a game for his behavior.

I will also say Howard is being a b**ch for getting upset over the TO. It’s ok for him to continue to press with his starters in a game that’s over but not ok for Wisky to use a TO to help out their walk ons?
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I would have a hard time not firing him after viewing the NSFW footage of this, also taking into consideration the Maryland incident from last year. He's not fit to be coaching at this level and is a disaster as a representative and face of a major university.
 
A min is suspended foe the rest of the season.

Adults need to be adults. It's not that difficult.
Richard move to call at TO? Yea. An even bigger Richard move to throw punches.
 
Omar said:
Both are at fault, but Howard acted the worst of the two. I wouldn’t fire Howard, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he does get the boot. IMO, I’d suspend him the rest of the yr, and make sure he knows that’s strike 2. I also believe Gard should be suspended for a game for his behavior.

I will also say Howard is being a b**ch for getting upset over the TO. It’s ok for him to continue to press with his starters in a game that’s over but not ok for Wisky to use a TO to help out their walk ons?
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If the referee hadn’t told Gard the 10 sec would be reset if he called a time out none of this would have happened. Doesn’t sound like Gard asked for advice, the referee just offered it.
The referee should be fired for coaching Wisky.
Howard should be fired, Gard should be suspended for grabbing Howard’s arm.

Nothing will surprise me related to penalties.
 
thavoice said:
A min is suspended foe the rest of the season.

Adults need to be adults. It's not that difficult.
Richard move to call at TO? Yea. An even bigger Richard move to throw punches.
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Calling a TO was a response to Michigan pressing with their starters still in.
 
From a coaching perspective, IMO it's a real Richard move to be pressing in that situation when the outcome of the game has already been decided and with a couple starters still in against the scrubs.

I probably would have rather seen Gard just play the game out since there was limited time remaining, but I really don't have a problem with anything a coach chooses to do when the opponent is doing the above. To me, there is no justifiable reason to be upset about the timeout when you're still being aggressive and pressing defensively and appear to not be content with the scrubs just dribbling the time out.
 
Omar said:
Calling a TO was a response to Michigan pressing with their starters still in.
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Few weeks ago I saw a HS, losing by 60 with their backups in, start to press in the 4th qtr when the winning team put in their JVS!


Anyways.

Wnr to the OSU Iowa game Saturday since we had nothing to do. What a snoozefest, felt more energy at JV HS games. My goodness that places sucked.
 
I am in no means a fan of either of these coaches. Gard is pompus and has a "holier than thou" attitude. Howard, while I felt was the best person of the Fab Five is really showing his true colors after becoming the coach at Michigan.

This is one of those things, much like us at our own employers -- Don't embarrass the company. Now Juwan Howard actually had a run in less than a year ago with then Maryland coach Mark Turgeon at the big ten tournament. Look we've seen these situations before, coaches have HUGE egos and they don't like to lose, and they hate even more being shown up while losing.

Here's the deal, the game was over before the last minute. Gard has emptied his bench, for some reason instead of conceding, Howard decides to full court press Wisconsin's reserves. This is a clear violation of basketball etiquette, so fearing a 10 second call, Gard takes a timeout with 15 seconds left and Howard didn't like it.

So...and we see this in football all the time, the coaches normally do a handshake after the game, but Howard was going to do a blow by and not acknowledge Gard. Gard likely sensed this -- and to my knowledge these guys had not had any prior issues -- reached out and grabbed Howard's arm. Now Gard looks like he's about 6' and Howard is 6'10" so Howard talking about protecting him self.... p-lease...

Anyway, at that point they go back and forth and Howard grabs Gard's shirt in a fist --- for some reason NO ONE talked about this. So of course the assistants and the players get in there and that's when it escalated. If it ended there, we'd likely not be even discussing this anymore and both probably gets a slap on the hand.

BUT, for some reason that's never been explained, Howard decides to take a swipe at a Wisconsin assistant. Frankly, I'm shocked fans didn't come out of the stands after the Michigan team at that point. And I really did not see much if any security for the arena.

Now, IMO IF Howard goes into the press conference, apologizes profusely and says he just lost his head, then he'd likely be coaching still and this would not be near the issue it became. But again, for some reason Howard dug his heels in and just last night, he released some lawyered up statement that he'd never say and it just comes off as very petty.

Just a bizarre scene, I was surprised to see that from Howard and he's literally had two strikes not. I'm going to say he'll leave on his own within two years at Michigan. I don't think he likes coaching college bball as much as he thought he would. He could be an NBA assistant and just coast for the next 10-15 years, he may even get some jingles for a head coaching job in the NBA.
 
14Red said:
I am in no means a fan of either of these coaches. Gard is pompus and has a "holier than thou" attitude. Howard, while I felt was the best person of the Fab Five is really showing his true colors after becoming the coach at Michigan.

This is one of those things, much like us at our own employers -- Don't embarrass the company. Now Juwan Howard actually had a run in less than a year ago with then Maryland coach Mark Turgeon at the big ten tournament. Look we've seen these situations before, coaches have HUGE egos and they don't like to lose, and they hate even more being shown up while losing.

Here's the deal, the game was over before the last minute. Gard has emptied his bench, for some reason instead of conceding, Howard decides to full court press Wisconsin's reserves. This is a clear violation of basketball etiquette, so fearing a 10 second call, Gard takes a timeout with 15 seconds left and Howard didn't like it.

So...and we see this in football all the time, the coaches normally do a handshake after the game, but Howard was going to do a blow by and not acknowledge Gard. Gard likely sensed this -- and to my knowledge these guys had not had any prior issues -- reached out and grabbed Howard's arm. Now Gard looks like he's about 6' and Howard is 6'10" so Howard talking about protecting him self.... p-lease...

Anyway, at that point they go back and forth and Howard grabs Gard's shirt in a fist --- for some reason NO ONE talked about this. So of course the assistants and the players get in there and that's when it escalated. If it ended there, we'd likely not be even discussing this anymore and both probably gets a slap on the hand.

BUT, for some reason that's never been explained, Howard decides to take a swipe at a Wisconsin assistant. Frankly, I'm shocked fans didn't come out of the stands after the Michigan team at that point. And I really did not see much if any security for the arena.

Now, IMO IF Howard goes into the press conference, apologizes profusely and says he just lost his head, then he'd likely be coaching still and this would not be near the issue it became. But again, for some reason Howard dug his heels in and just last night, he released some lawyered up statement that he'd never say and it just comes off as very petty.

Just a bizarre scene, I was surprised to see that from Howard and he's literally had two strikes not. I'm going to say he'll leave on his own within two years at Michigan. I don't think he likes coaching college bball as much as he thought he would. He could be an NBA assistant and just coast for the next 10-15 years, he may even get some jingles for a head coaching job in the NBA.
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To be completely clear, Howard's run in with Mark Turgeon last year included him saying "I will f--ing kill you." caught on tape.

Not sure how Michigan can justify retaining him - he clearly has an anger problem and this is a terrible look for the program / University. But hey, UM is happy keeping a football coach who clearly did not want to be there. I guess if you have low standards, or no standards, go ahead and let Howard keep his job. Michigan sucks.
 
wolves82 said:
To be completely clear, Howard's run in with Mark Turgeon last year included him saying "I will f--ing kill you." caught on tape.

Not sure how Michigan can justify retaining him - he clearly has an anger problem and this is a terrible look for the program / University. But hey, UM is happy keeping a football coach who clearly did not want to be there. I guess if you have low standards, or no standards, go ahead and let Howard keep his job. Michigan sucks.
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I believe way back when, Temple coach John Cheney got into it in a presser with a young John Calapari, saying "I'll kill you". He coached at Temple for another 12 years before retiring.
This is one of those things where the school has some discretion. If they wanted to get rid of Howard, they certainly could have used this as a way to get him out - for cause. But in it's entirety - Howard is good for Michigan and they feel he can get past this. However, this is clearly strike 2, and my guess he's at the no tolerance stage.
 
Is it me or is the pressure of the regular season coming to an end putting pressure on the Big Ten coaches. First, we have them throwing punches then last night a coach gets so upset he gets himself thrown out. Going to be fun to watch the final games and outcomes. Tight races do things to coaches it seems.
 
19AL63 said:
Is it me or is the pressure of the regular season coming to an end putting pressure on the Big Ten coaches. First, we have them throwing punches then last night a coach gets so upset he gets himself thrown out. Going to be fun to watch the final games and outcomes. Tight races do things to coaches it seems.
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who got tossed?
 
My opinion hasn’t changed on any of the Top 5 teams that lost. However, there’s no way both UK and Auburn get 1 seeds. In fact, other than Gonzaga, I’d say it’s almost a necessity to win the conference tourney for a 1 seed.
 
20 years ago, this same Gonzaga team doesn't get a #1. They don't have a solid win against a big program, only losses. They beat two ranked Texas teams who themselves have lost almost all games against top teams. Tech had a win against Kansas but then so did Dayton. If Gonzaga get's #1 this year, it's reputation only. But that's pretty much the way for the P5s so...

Up in the air. Push come to shove, I don't think unexpected in the final four. Blue chips will be there. Just not clear which blue chips. Maybe Iona because....
 
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Lots of parity. Let's examine a few of the teams that people are talking about, especially top non-league games:
- Duke - ACC, wins over Kentucky and Gonzaga, loss to Buckeyes
- Kansas - Big 12 is tough, win over Sparty, losses to Dayton and Kentucky
- Baylor - Big 12, wins over Sparty and Nova
- Texas Tech - Big 12, win over Tennessee, losses to Gonzaga and Providence
- Providence - Big East is meh, win over Wisconsin, loss to UVA
- Villanova - Big East, losses to Purdue, UCLA, Baylor, Creighton, win over Tennessee
- Houston - weak league, losses to Wisconsin and Alabama, no real quality wins
- Arizona - Pac 12 is meh, win over Illinois, loss to Tennessee
- UCLA - Pac 12, Beat Nova, lost to Gonzaga
- Murray State is 28-2 but got thumped by Auburn in their only big matchup
- Auburn - SEC is tough, non-league full of cupcakes, lost to UConn
- Kentucky - SEC, lost to Notre Dame and Duke, beat UNC and Kansas
- Gonzaga - WCC is weak, lost to Duke and Bama, beat UCLA, Texas and Texas Tech

We all know the Big Ten. When they finish beating each other up, I think that Wisconsin, Purdue, Illinois and Ohio State are as good as any of the above. And it is never smart to bet against Izzo in March. Tourney looks wide open to me - it will come down to matchups.
 
eastisbest said:
20 years ago, this same Gonzaga team doesn't get a #1. They don't have a solid win against a big program, only losses. They beat two ranked Texas teams who themselves have lost almost all games against top teams. Tech had a win against Kansas but then so did Dayton. If Gonzaga get's #1 this year, it's reputation only. But that's pretty much the way for the P5s so...

Up in the air. Push come to shove, I don't think unexpected in the final four. Blue chips will be there. Just not clear which blue chips. Maybe Iona because....
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Gonzaga can win it all but the fact they’re such a heavy favorite based on betting odds is absurd.
 
I want to give a FF prediction but I don’t feel good about it without knowing the brackets. I truly think at least one, if not two #1 seeds don’t make it to the 2nd weekend. I keep thinking of a team like LSU that will be in the 8-9 range. They might lose their 1st round game, but they also have enough talent to beat anyone in the tournament. Murray St is also projected to be in the 8-9 range and they’re extremely dangerous.
 
It’s been crazy. Shoot I think Rutgers can get a fourth seed in the B1G Tournament if Iowa loses to Illinois and OSU loses to tsun and Rutgers beats PSU. Rutgers has beat Iowa and OSU.
But hopefully both Illinois and the Buckeyes will take care of business.
Go Buckeyes!
 
nutsnbolts said:
If the referee hadn’t told Gard the 10 sec would be reset if he called a time out none of this would have happened. Doesn’t sound like Gard asked for advice, the referee just offered it.
The referee should be fired for coaching Wisky.
Howard should be fired, Gard should be suspended for grabbing Howard’s arm.

Nothing will surprise me related to penalties.
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Pretty amusing to blame an official because two grown men can't be civil.
 
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