#15, 2-6, "Control Own Destiny"...THE PLAYOFFS KINDA SUCK.

The TEAM tournament is sponsored by the OTCA. The OHSAA sponsored tournament is the individual tournament and the players excluded can be any non seeded players, they only seed a certain number of players, and the rest of the bracket is filled out by random draw. So the excluded players are not necessarily the worst, only the top seeds are guaranteed to be in the bracket. Again this only impacts NEO due to having so many schools that participate relative to the rest of the state and the limtation caused by indoor venues (often shared with a college or other tenant) in the event of inclimate weather. I think many years it was a non issue because most of the very worst players decline to participate.

The question is do any other OHSAA sanctioned sports have a limitation on particpation similar to tennis which limits how many sets or matches a player can play?
Does the OHSAA allow double or triple headers in baseball or softball? Can you play multiple basketball, soccer, lacrosse, or boys ice hockey games in a day?
There have been times in the state tournament, when baseball teams played two games in the same day.

Playing an extra set in tennis is not, however, analogous to playing a full extra 3-set match-- it would not be hard to find a way to accommodate ALL tennis players in the state tournament-- as simple as adding an extra day (or weekend) to the start of the tournament... this is an invented "problem" that the OHSAA can (and SHOULD) resolve.

The bottom line is that the OHSAA, in nearly every case, of nearly EVERY sport (except football) has made it the standard practice to include ALL teams and ALL participants in its sanctioned state tournament playoffs-- this one tiny (almost non-existent, and truly needless) exception hardly proves the contrary.
 
The tennis TEAM tournament is arranged by the OTCA, and only the best teams participate. The individual tournament is arranged by the OHSAA, and due to scheduling issues dealing with indoor venues, and due to the sheer number of participants in certain parts of NEO they have had to limit participation at times because they don't want to add an additional day to the tournament and there is a maximum number of matches and sets for both boys and girls that they are allowed to play in one day. I don't believe it has ever been an issue for girls tennis but I know for a fact it has been an issue for the boys, they did something to this effect even back when I played.

In previous years for hockey they generally would determine a seeding and from there fill the brackets, I think hockey has 2 divisions, and they break the teams down into Cleveland area which includes places like Akron, Canton, Kent and Canfield and then the Toledo, Columbus and Cincinnati teams are all grouped together. They formerly would make all the brackets such that they would not do play in games or byes, say there was 20 teams, they would just do a bracket with the top 16 because sometimes there wasn't enough availability for the arena to do the play in games as well. You can only play one game at a time at any given venue obviously, so the logistics didn't always make sense to include all teams, not sure what they do now of course.

For lacross in the past they would just make the bracket with however many teams would fill it without any play in games or byes. So if they had 145 teams, the bracket would be filled with the top 128 teams (assuming they only had one division which they don't).

Any team whose coach is a member of the OTCA can participate in the team tournament.

Tennis sectionals and district are played outdoors in NW Ohio.
 
I come to the football forum for discussions about tennis and water rights, so I’m damned sure happy to see threads like this!
ian hecox fist shake GIF
 
It is all about $$$. As long as the extra round of playoffs are bringing in net more $$, nothing will change. I do not see any downside. Even if you are on a team that gets clobbered in the first round, you got to play in the playoffs. That memory will last the rest of your life.
 
Any team whose coach is a member of the OTCA can participate in the team tournament.

Tennis sectionals and district are played outdoors in NW Ohio.
They have a alternate indoor site for the event of inclimate weather. I don't know what that site is for each sectional and district tournament, but they all have one for just in case, sometimes the site is shared with multiple divisions, sections or districts.

As far as the OTCA tournament goes if your team is not even remotely competitive with the others entered you are advised as much and returned your entry fee so you do waste your time or money. I have never heard of a terrible team entering the tournament, generally the coach knows if it is worth entering his team or not.
 
There have been times in the state tournament, when baseball teams played two games in the same day.

Playing an extra set in tennis is not, however, analogous to playing a full extra 3-set match-- it would not be hard to find a way to accommodate ALL tennis players in the state tournament-- as simple as adding an extra day (or weekend) to the start of the tournament... this is an invented "problem" that the OHSAA can (and SHOULD) resolve.

The bottom line is that the OHSAA, in nearly every case, of nearly EVERY sport (except football) has made it the standard practice to include ALL teams and ALL participants in its sanctioned state tournament playoffs-- this one tiny (almost non-existent, and truly needless) exception hardly proves the contrary.
As I said before you can only play 5 sets, when you start your 5th set the match you are presently playing is the last one you can play that day, so if you have one match go 3 sets you may not play more than 2 matches in a day, while if you beat your first 2 opponents in straight sets you can play a third match.
The problem with tennis is that the outdoor courts they play for at generally do not have lights for sectionals and districts so you only have a certain window of time to play when there is adequate daylight. Also if it rains that means you move indoors where you have usually a more limited number of courts than the outdoor facility and also a very limited amount of dates and times you can use the courts. The indoor courts are all privately owned so their number one priority isn't the sectional or district tournament but rather the primary tenants best interests whether that is the members of a private club or a college team.

So you cannot simply add a day to the sectional or district tournaments to accommodate more players, it is an impossibility. Back when my brother and I played we had rain every day of sectionals, and my one match had to be suspended and resumed on a Sunday because of time constraints, we had to give way to the YSU mens tennis team so they could play their regularly scheduled opponents. The indoor tennis centres do not go out of their way to accommodate the early rounds of tournament play, it is not like when you are at Lidner and they have the whole facility reserved for the high school state tournament. The problem is no high schools have their own indoor courts not shared with another entity, so you are at the mercy or the indoor tennis centres to work with the window you are given which is two days from like 8 AM to 6 PM or something like that.

The rule limiting sets/matches, the problem is to accommodate everyone you wouldn't just have to play one more set, you would have to play 2 more matches beyond what is permissible in a day as determined by the OHSAA.
 
It is all about $$$. As long as the extra round of playoffs are bringing in net more $$, nothing will change. I do not see any downside. Even if you are on a team that gets clobbered in the first round, you got to play in the playoffs. That memory will last the rest of your life.
No, it isn't-- it most definitely is NOT.

But, you could be right about the last line you wrote.
 
As I said before you can only play 5 sets, when you start your 5th set the match you are presently playing is the last one you can play that day, so if you have one match go 3 sets you may not play more than 2 matches in a day, while if you beat your first 2 opponents in straight sets you can play a third match.
The problem with tennis is that the outdoor courts they play for at generally do not have lights for sectionals and districts so you only have a certain window of time to play when there is adequate daylight. Also if it rains that means you move indoors where you have usually a more limited number of courts than the outdoor facility and also a very limited amount of dates and times you can use the courts. The indoor courts are all privately owned so their number one priority isn't the sectional or district tournament but rather the primary tenants best interests whether that is the members of a private club or a college team.

So you cannot simply add a day to the sectional or district tournaments to accommodate more players, it is an impossibility. Back when my brother and I played we had rain every day of sectionals, and my one match had to be suspended and resumed on a Sunday because of time constraints, we had to give way to the YSU mens tennis team so they could play their regularly scheduled opponents. The indoor tennis centres do not go out of their way to accommodate the early rounds of tournament play, it is not like when you are at Lidner and they have the whole facility reserved for the high school state tournament. The problem is no high schools have their own indoor courts not shared with another entity, so you are at the mercy or the indoor tennis centres to work with the window you are given which is two days from like 8 AM to 6 PM or something like that.

The rule limiting sets/matches, the problem is to accommodate everyone you wouldn't just have to play one more set, you would have to play 2 more matches beyond what is permissible in a day as determined by the OHSAA.
The OHSAA can ALWAYS start the state tournament a week earlier-- or end it a week later (it's not as if the state tennis tournament can't end after some kids finish school-- Baseball REGULARLY does this)-- as they have done in football-- there is NOTHING inviolable about the rules--they are NOT set in stone-- this is an administrative decision masquerading as a problem.
 
I say "Ignore your advice"--the playoffs are NOT for YOU--they are for the kids who are playing football.
You’re partly right. But watering them down with teams who don’t deserve to be there can be a disservice to those kids…… not to mention what getting beat 72-0 with a running clock does for their confidence let alone what getting smacked around every play does physically. Why stretch 10 weeks of that into 11
 
4 is FAR too limiting. If you read through this thread and skip past the odd tennis discussion, you'll see that the most compelling argument is for 8.
Eight is ok I suppose. It’s probably been mentioned but how has the 8th seed fared over the years. I can’t imagine many 16 seeds have gotten past the first round. So I think we agree that 16 is way too many
 
You’re partly right. But watering them down with teams who don’t deserve to be there can be a disservice to those kids…… not to mention what getting beat 72-0 with a running clock does for their confidence let alone what getting smacked around every play does physically. Why stretch 10 weeks of that into 11
Shorten the regular season by one week, and there is no problem-- the season used to be only 9 games for many, many years-- even in college... as for the "getting smacked around" comment-- that is over-rated, by people who are not out there on the field-- AND, if it's that much of a problem, a team can ALWAYS opt out, and not play-- as DID happen (a few times) in the Covid season of 2020-- a forfeit is ALWAYS an option.
 
The OHSAA can ALWAYS start the state tournament a week earlier-- or end it a week later (it's not as if the state tennis tournament can't end after some kids finish school-- Baseball REGULARLY does this)-- as they have done in football-- there is NOTHING inviolable about the rules--they are NOT set in stone-- this is an administrative decision masquerading as a problem.
The problem is still how can the OHSAA force a private entity to allow the use of their indoor tennis courts at dates and times convenient to the OHSAA? Most indoor courts have other commitments already set in stone such as USTA tournaments and college matches and practices and other private events and parties etc. There is no way to predict the weather so you need to have a contingency in place for inclimate weather. No other sport absolutely requires use of private facilities for competition. Every other sport that is OHSAA sanctioned has at least a few facilities owned by member institutions.
 
Shorten the regular season by one week, and there is no problem-- the season used to be only 9 games for many, many years-- even in college... as for the "getting smacked around" comment-- that is over-rated, by people who are not out there on the field-- AND, if it's that much of a problem, a team can ALWAYS opt out, and not play-- as DID happen (a few times) in the Covid season of 2020-- a forfeit is ALWAYS an option.
Hmmm... shorten the regular season by a week, costing most schools one gate every two years, so we can risk injury to kids who have mostly checked out by that point against teams they shouldn't be playing against anyway, so the OHSAA can take even more money and people not on the field can feel good because their team "made the playoffs" in a participation-trophy era?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your idea is? Your suggestion takes something that's about the kids and makes it about the adults and the administrators.
 
I say "Ignore your advice"--the playoffs are NOT for YOU--they are for the kids who are playing football.
1. True. And the vast majority of bottom seeds want no part of week 11, as
2. they also wrestle, play hoops and the other winter sports and would prefer to move on to those sports, or to hang with their buds and/or girlfriends.
 
When talking about margin of victory and scoring, consider now that virtually every game is played on a pristine turf field. Gone are the days of week 11+ mud bowls that end 8-2.
 
Hmmm... shorten the regular season by a week, costing most schools one gate every two years, so we can risk injury to kids who have mostly checked out by that point against teams they shouldn't be playing against anyway, so the OHSAA can take even more money and people not on the field can feel good because their team "made the playoffs" in a participation-trophy era?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your idea is? Your suggestion takes something that's about the kids and makes it about the adults and the administrators.
Hmmm... Do you have any idea: how ridiculous your idea is that the OHSAA is "taking even more money" (as IF the OHSAA were taking a big piece of these schools' revenue-- it JUST DOESN'T MATTER-- ALL high schools LOSE MONEY on EVERY HS sport!); or how silly your notion is that this is for "people not on the field"; or how absurd your perception is that (somehow) it would be some kind of violation of ALL of the rules of man and nature and all that is holy, if (Oh My God) Ohio played a 9-game regular season-- which is what teams in both HS (including in Ohio) and college did for MANY DECADES (and some high schools in Ohio STILL do, to this day, because they are unable to schedule 10 regular season opponents)...

You have managed to twist a simple idea (that it would be best, in general, if ALL Ohio football players got the same privilege that ALL other Ohio HS athletes get-- to participate in an OHSAA-sanctioned state tournament) in a knot with all kinds of ludicrous assumptions-- and somehow decide that an OHSAA decision to do something FOR THE KIDS playing this sport-- NOT for YOU and other Adults on this site-- would somehow "make it about the adults and administrators"-- when it is ABSOLUTELY NO SUCH THING.

By the way-- those schools with teams made up of players "who have mostly checked out by that point" DON'T have any significant number of fans coming to their games ANYWAY-- so the alleged gate revenue lost by those teams (which is insignificant, in any case, when compared with the cost of fielding a team and putting on a football game) would be trivial for those teams-- and the teams that they lose to will go on to the next week, to play another game-- those teams will not miss the alleged HUGE gate revenue of one home game every two years (and if they're Massillon or Steubenville, or the like, they will NOT lose one home game every two years-- as teams like those are NOT playing only 5 homes game each year right now-- Steubenville sometimes plays 7 or even 8 home games, in a ten-game season-- I'm SURE they can figure out how to keep getting 5 home games in a 9-game regular season).
 
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1. True. And the vast majority of bottom seeds want no part of week 11, as
2. they also wrestle, play hoops and the other winter sports and would prefer to move on to those sports, or to hang with their buds and/or girlfriends.
That's your opinion-- but it should NOT be up to you to decide whether those "bottom seeds want no part of week 11"-- we can leave it to the kids on those teams-- and if they don't want to play a game in week 10 or 11 (depending on the length of the regular season), they can decide to move on to those other sports (or "their buds and/or girlfriends")-- nobody is holding a gun to their head-- but they don't need YOU deciding that for THEM.
 
Hmmm... Do you have any idea: how ridiculous your idea is that the OHSAA is "taking even more money" (as IF the OHSAA were taking a big piece of these schools' revenue-- it JUST DOESN'T MATTER-- ALL high schools LOSE MONEY on EVERY HS sport!); or how silly your notion is that this is for "people not on the field"; or how absurd your perception is that (somehow) it would be some kind of violation of ALL of the rules of man and nature and all that is holy, if (Oh My God) Ohio played a 9-game regular season-- which is what teams in both HS (including in Ohio) and college did for MANY DECADES (and some high schools in Ohio STILL do, to this day, because they are unable to schedule 10 regular season opponents)...

You have managed to twist a simple idea (that it would be best, in general, if ALL Ohio football players got the same privilege that ALL other Ohio HS athletes get-- to participate in an OHSAA-sanctioned state tournament) in a knot with all kinds of ludicrous assumptions-- and somehow decide that an OHSAA decision to do something FOR THE KIDS playing this sport-- NOT for YOU and other Adults on this site-- would somehow "make it about the adults and administrators"-- when it is ABSOLUTELY NO SUCH THING.

By the way-- those schools with teams made up of players "who have mostly checked out by that point" DON'T have any significant number of fans coming to their games ANYWAY-- so the alleged gate revenue lost by those teams (which is insignificant, in any case, when compared with the cost of fielding a team and putting on a football game) would be trivial for those teams-- and the teams that they lose to will go on to the next week, to play another game-- those teams will not miss the alleged HUGE gate revenue of one home game every two years (and if they're Massillon or Steubenville, or the like, they will NOT lose one home game every two years-- as teams like those are NOT playing only 5 homes game each year right now-- Steubenville sometimes plays 7 or even 8 home games, in a ten-game season-- I'm SURE they can figure out how to keep getting 5 home games in a 9-game regular season).
Wow! People like you are the type of people that REALLY shouldn't be involved in youth sports. You only proved my earlier point.
 
1. True. And the vast majority of bottom seeds want no part of week 11, as
2. they also wrestle, play hoops and the other winter sports and would prefer to move on to those sports, or to hang with their buds and/or girlfriends.
Agreed. Elyria football players are not going to be excited all week to get slaughtered by Eds. The community is not going to rally behind them. And if its Cleveland Heights thats just going to be a long drive to get killed. Whats memorable about that? More memories to be made on your buddy's couch lol or like you said theyd rather be at practice for a winter sport which is probably better than the 1-2 win "playoff" football team.
 
Shorten the regular season by one week, and there is no problem-- the season used to be only 9 games for many, many years-- even in college... as for the "getting smacked around" comment-- that is over-rated, by people who are not out there on the field-- AND, if it's that much of a problem, a team can ALWAYS opt out, and not play-- as DID happen (a few times) in the Covid season of 2020-- a forfeit is ALWAYS an option.
Shorten the regular season?! For what? So Ashtabula Lakeside can "experience" playing Hoban in the "playoffs??" So we can lose some more of the few big regular season games we still have? Bring value back to the regular season not devalue it what the hell lol
 
12 really was the perfect number to appease everybody. I got my top teams fighting for a bye. 10-12 seeds would have fighting chances round 1 which lends to better eexperiences.* An extra week of games minus the slaughterfests mustve made too much sense
 
That's your opinion-- but it should NOT be up to you to decide whether those "bottom seeds want no part of week 11"

It's not for me to decide, but if they had playoffs in my day, I know what nearly everyone on our 2-8 team would have wanted, as opposed to playing a state power of the time.

-- we can leave it to the kids on those teams-- and if they don't want to play a game in week 10 or 11 (depending on the length of the regular season), they can decide to move on to those other sports (or "their buds and/or girlfriends")-- nobody is holding a gun to their head--
If you don't think kids in that situation are pressured to play by "adults", you're naive as hell or not being totally honest.
 
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