NBA thread

nwwarrior09 said:
Embiid was very good and Trae Young was not so good, and the Sixers still got bounced.

Ben Simmons had 6 points in 34 4th quarter minutes in games 4-7. 6-12 from the free throw line with 0 FG attempts.
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I would say Embiid was ok. After game 3 he really seemed to struggle with his lift and being able to finish around the rim. Trae Young struggled because Ben guarded him alot after game 1. Fans seems to really not understand the total contributions of players. I'm as disappointed in Ben as anyone, but he does different things to help the team, and offense isn't his strong suit. I don't understand why many want guys to just shoot, even if they are not good shooters. Ben is actually doing the Sixers a favor by not shooting alot, as there are other and better options on the floor. The free throw problems, all in his head now. I don't know how you ever shake that until you just start making them.
 
14Red said:
I would say Embiid was ok. After game 3 he really seemed to struggle with his lift and being able to finish around the rim. Trae Young struggled because Ben guarded him alot after game 1. Fans seems to really not understand the total contributions of players. I'm as disappointed in Ben as anyone, but he does different things to help the team, and offense isn't his strong suit. I don't understand why many want guys to just shoot, even if they are not good shooters. Ben is actually doing the Sixers a favor by not shooting alot, as there are other and better options on the floor. The free throw problems, all in his head now. I don't know how you ever shake that until you just start making them.
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The problem with Ben Simmons is that it's very difficult to support having a guard that's a non-shooter who's limited to scoring at the rim on a max contract in the current era where scoring is the most valued commodity and handily trumps defense. All of the rules and interpretations are heavily favored to the offense for maximum output. Trae Young shot horrendously last night and still accounted for around 10 more points than Simmons factoring in their assists, and Simmons had 13 assists.

No matter how many other things he does well, as far as constructing a team goes that contract is an impediment to constructing a championship contending team. For the Sixers to win a championship either he has to develop a jump shot or he has to go.
 
If Daryl Morey, Elton Brand and Doc Rivers are worth a damn, they will figure out a way to be successful with Simmons. The guy could play the 4, where you don't need much offense. Draft or bring in a decent point guard and you don't need much offense from him. Imagine a 4 with his his ball skills and ability to defend anyone on the floor.

He is also fixable but that depends in large part on his self motivation to get better. It's telling that he's this far into his career and hasn't improved his shooting. I suspect at this point it is as much mental as physical.
 
I'm not sure how much faith I have in Doc Rivers. Outside of a few years with the Celtics where he had three hall of famers and another all-star along with a loaded coaching staff with Tom Thibodeau as his associate HC, he's been a perennial underachiever and choke artist in the postseason.
 
nwwarrior09 said:
The problem with Ben Simmons is that it's very difficult to support having a guard that's a non-shooter who's limited to scoring at the rim on a max contract in the current era where scoring is the most valued commodity and handily trumps defense. All of the rules and interpretations are heavily favored to the offense for maximum output. Trae Young shot horrendously last night and still accounted for around 10 more points than Simmons factoring in their assists, and Simmons had 13 assists.

No matter how many other things he does well, as far as constructing a team goes that contract is an impediment to constructing a championship contending team. For the Sixers to win a championship either he has to develop a jump shot or he has to go.
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I think we have an "idea" as to why or how basketball teams are constructed. The Sixers were good enough to win a championship this year, they truly were. They just didn't play up to their capabilities in the Hawks series. They had double digit leads in games 4-5 in the second half and could not close it out.
Embiid was good, but not nearly himself. Not a big Danny Green fan, but losing him after game 1 was tough. All I'm saying is that Ben Simmons does enough positive to help teams win. Yes, the NBA is an offensive league, but the teams that are successful do play defense, and some play it very well. Ben can guard 1-5 on the floor. Very few players can do that. If the Sixers had it to do over again, they probably would not have offered the max contract, but he was a #1 pick, has been an all star and has been a part of the Process from the start. Ben is a pass first guy and that's not going to change, but he needs to become a better scorer, not necessarily shooter.
 
14Red said:
I think we have an "idea" as to why or how basketball teams are constructed. The Sixers were good enough to win a championship this year, they truly were. They just didn't play up to their capabilities in the Hawks series. They had double digit leads in games 4-5 in the second half and could not close it out.
Embiid was good, but not nearly himself. Not a big Danny Green fan, but losing him after game 1 was tough. All I'm saying is that Ben Simmons does enough positive to help teams win. Yes, the NBA is an offensive league, but the teams that are successful do play defense, and some play it very well. Ben can guard 1-5 on the floor. Very few players can do that. If the Sixers had it to do over again, they probably would not have offered the max contract, but he was a #1 pick, has been an all star and has been a part of the Process from the start. Ben is a pass first guy and that's not going to change, but he needs to become a better scorer, not necessarily shooter.
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I don't think these guys were quite there yet this year. The Bucks are a team that over the course of his short career Simmons has averaged well below his career scoring averages against. I don't think Philly beats Milwaukee in a seven game series without some big breaks. Danny Green would have made some difference for them against the Hawks.

Ben Simmons more than likely does not get a max contract IMO if Morey was running the team two years ago. The biggest issue with their roster is that they've had four different guys fiddling with it over the last 5-6 years. Morey is for all purposes the executive father of how most teams play today with the floor spread and the mid-range game being eliminated in favor of the three. In his own words, statistically the three point shot is over rewarding. Within a month or so on the job he traded for Seth Curry and Danny Green. I don't think his general philosophy on roster management/construction will differ much from when he was running the front office in Houston. If a decent deal can be made I think he'll move on from Simmons. If not, I'd expect a lot more of Maxey and Simmons on the floor together next year with Simmons playing power forward.
 
Big night for the Cavs. Get pick 3, 4 or 5 and become relevant again. Get pick 1 or 2 and ride into the playoffs. Get pick 6, 7, 8 or 9 and grind through another difficult season and hope for better luck in the 2022 draft lottery.
 
Yes!!! Cavs pick third. Hello, Jalen Green! Cavs will be stacked on the perimeter with Garland, Sexton, Okoro and Green.
 
Already a lot of chatter about the Cavs drafting Green and trading Sexton, possibly for Ben Simmons.
 
Major break for the Cavs...this pick has to be Green unless Houston goes in a direction other than Mobley at #2.

Green is a better prospect than last year's #1 pick Anthony Edwards, and as far as scoring talent goes in this draft probably only trails Cunningham.
 
cjb56 said:
Already a lot of chatter about the Cavs drafting Green and trading Sexton, possibly for Ben Simmons.
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I wouldn't get too far ahead of myself if I were the Cavs here...assuming this is the inevitable outcome of their pick, I'd still consider them to be an "asset collector" and not quite a ready to win team with a splash trade...notwithstanding I can't see Sexton being the major asset the Sixers would be looking for to offload Simmons.

Tons of upside with Green but I wouldn't expect it to be a rocket from day one. This comparison seems to be getting kicked around a lot, but watching some highlights the current player he reminds me the most of is Zach Lavine. Lavine didn't become a big scorer until his 5th year or an all-star until his 7th year as he needed to bulk up some, develop some offensive skills and instincts besides scoring, and become at least an acceptable defender.

I would expect a Green rookie season to look a lot like the first few years of Lavine averaging 16-17 PPG with a ton of exciting highlights and maybe a slam dunk contest championship and not much else. Five years from now this guy could be the franchise cornerstone and a perrenial all-star.
 
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nwwarrior09 said:
I don't think these guys were quite there yet this year. The Bucks are a team that over the course of his short career Simmons has averaged well below his career scoring averages against. I don't think Philly beats Milwaukee in a seven game series without some big breaks. Danny Green would have made some difference for them against the Hawks.

Ben Simmons more than likely does not get a max contract IMO if Morey was running the team two years ago. The biggest issue with their roster is that they've had four different guys fiddling with it over the last 5-6 years. Morey is for all purposes the executive father of how most teams play today with the floor spread and the mid-range game being eliminated in favor of the three. In his own words, statistically the three point shot is over rewarding. Within a month or so on the job he traded for Seth Curry and Danny Green. I don't think his general philosophy on roster management/construction will differ much from when he was running the front office in Houston. If a decent deal can be made I think he'll move on from Simmons. If not, I'd expect a lot more of Maxey and Simmons on the floor together next year with Simmons playing power forward.
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I like that thinking. And I get kind of frustrated with people who just want Ben to shoot. Why have a guy shoot who doesn't shoot well? He does ALOT of great things on the basketball floor, many which get little notoriety. I'd like to see him be aggressive in going to the basket. In games during the regular season, when he's aggrressive Ben, it's amazing. He can get to the basket on almost anyone, he can finish with both hands. As you said, maybe the "gameplan" with Morey is more of shooting 3's over 2's and all he does is create space drive and kick to shooters, which he does EXTREMELY well. I'd be interested to see how many of his assists are on open 3's made by his shooters.

I don't see Danny Green continuing being a viable option, he's older and he struggles defending 1's and 2's anymore. The Sixers can get away with the defensive shortcoming of Curry and Green with having Ben and Joel on the floor. But in today's NBA, you'd better have guards who can defend if you want to be successful.

One guy to keep an eye on moving forward is Matiece Thybulle. His progress from year 1 to year 2 is astonishing. He's basically a young Danny Green, except he's an elite defender. If he can consistently knock down the 3 ball, he'll become great.
 
Ty Lou got outmaneuvered in a special situation (under out of bounds) and couldn't get a stop to lose last night with less than a second on the clock. Have to think this series is pretty much a wrap with the Suns up 2-0 and Chris Paul probably returning sooner than later.
 
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I need to come clean. When he was in college I poo-poo'd Trae Young. Didn't think much of him. I have to say he is dynamite. Looks like another Steph Curry.
 
nwwarrior09 said:
Ty Lou got outmaneuvered in a special situation (under out of bounds) and couldn't get a stop to lose last night with less than a second on the clock. Have to think this series is pretty much a wrap with the Suns up 2-0 and Chris Paul probably returning sooner than later.
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I think Paul is back tonight, Kawhi isn't back yet. It's really hard to imagine the Clippers can come back from this. Not sure Ty Lue was on the floor. Demarcus Cousins was way out of position and allowed the pass to be thrown.
 
wolves82 said:
I need to come clean. When he was in college I poo-poo'd Trae Young. Didn't think much of him. I have to say he is dynamite. Looks like another Steph Curry.
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I'm still not sold Young is able to win big in the NBA. His teammates get little credit for all the "little" things they do. Also, in another LeBron like move, suddenly a player gets a certain type of call that makes him nearly unguardable. He throws his body into the defender and flails his arms and gets the whistle. This is like when the NBA decided you could run over defenders and the charge calls went away with the restricted area for LeBron.
 
wolves82 said:
I need to come clean. When he was in college I poo-poo'd Trae Young. Didn't think much of him. I have to say he is dynamite. Looks like another Steph Curry.
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Near perfect player for the "modern" NBA and has his flopping down almost as good as Harden already. Incredibly tough to guard him.
 
14Red said:
I think Paul is back tonight, Kawhi isn't back yet. It's really hard to imagine the Clippers can come back from this. Not sure Ty Lue was on the floor. Demarcus Cousins was way out of position and allowed the pass to be thrown.
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Ty Lue unfortunately coaches the team though...I know most severely devalue coaching in the NBA, but at this point in the playoffs it does make a difference and Monty Williams is a few levels above him.

Cousins isn't exactly renowned for his defense, especially as his mobility has declined the last few years after his major injuries. He probably shouldn't have been in the game and tasked with a key job like trying to disrupt the inbounds pass. That's bad coaching.
 
It amazes me that professional athletes can't logically figure out that the lob was about the only way they could get beat. You angle Cousins ( and HE should know this, not be coached) and switch the screen so Ayton doesn't have an easy path to the basket and that ball just falls harmlessly. With .9, there was no other options so all of the Clippers should had been at the basket when the ball arrived.

and the Clippers are probably going to lose the series, largely because of that one play they could not defend.
nwwarrior09 said:
Ty Lue unfortunately coaches the team though...I know most severely devalue coaching in the NBA, but at this point in the playoffs it does make a difference and Monty Williams is a few levels above him.

Cousins isn't exactly renowned for his defense, especially as his mobility has declined the last few years after his major injuries. He probably shouldn't have been in the game and tasked with a key job like trying to disrupt the inbounds pass. That's bad coaching.
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Paul George already crying IF Kawhi wasn't hurt they would still be going.Lol

What about the Lakers saying the same thing about Anthony Davis?

And Lebron playing about 60% with his high ankle sprain.
 
Suns vs Bucks/Hawks. I really hope it gets good TV ratings so the NBA gets the message that not everyone wants to see East Coast/ West Coast teams every year. They just want to see good teams.
 
CantonKid said:
Paul George already crying IF Kawhi wasn't hurt they would still be going.Lol

What about the Lakers saying the same thing about Anthony Davis?

And Lebron playing about 60% with his high ankle sprain.
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And what about the Nets with all there injuries.
 
cjb56 said:
Suns vs Bucks/Hawks. I really hope it gets good TV ratings so the NBA gets the message that not everyone wants to see East Coast/ West Coast teams every year. They just want to see good teams.
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The meltdown in the league office will only be eclipsed by the meltdown in the national media, especially if the media personalities God forbid have to travel to Milwaukee.

I tend to think the ratings may be better than they'd suspect. It's good to get some new blood and fresh faces.
 
CantonKid said:
Paul George already crying IF Kawhi wasn't hurt they would still be going.Lol

What about the Lakers saying the same thing about Anthony Davis?

And Lebron playing about 60% with his high ankle sprain.
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And what about Denver? Wasn't Murray out hurt?
 
What about Golden State? Didn't they have a pretty good player out with a injury?

I think they might be able to beat the Clippers if fully healthy.
 
The Suns have had the basketball Gods help them through the playoffs. A depleted Lakers squad with Davis going down, the Nuggets with no Murray, the Clippers without Leonard. The Suns deserve some credit for their quick improvement, but damn they've been awfully lucky too. Now maybe they'll get a Young-less Hawks or a Giannis-free Bucks.
 
clarkgriswold said:
The Suns have had the basketball Gods help them through the playoffs. A depleted Lakers squad with Davis going down, the Nuggets with no Murray, the Clippers without Leonard. The Suns deserve some credit for their quick improvement, but damn they've been awfully lucky too. Now maybe they'll get a Young-less Hawks or a Giannis-free Bucks.
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A major advantage of having younger guys that legitimately played the entirely of the regular season and are fit and in shape with less total milage. I don't think it's a coincidence they haven't had the same problems as other teams with "load management" players being out of shape and getting hurt or older players getting hurt after a short off-season and quick turnaround from the bubble.

It takes some luck and good fortune for most to win a title. While not quite this lucky with opponent misfortune, the Lakers where pretty lucky with key opponent nagging injuries in the bubble, especially against Miami in the Finals.
 
Giannis seems to be a day-to-day injury case at this point. Wouldn't be surprised to see him try to go game 1 and be fairly healthy by the time the series goes to Milwaukee for game 3 next Sunday.
 
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