The Official 2023 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I mean sure, from a theoretical point of view you are right. Reds are not a playoff team this year and should be using all the ABs for the young guys.

But being practical you have to let Votto get ABs 4-6 days a week because you have fans that want to see him. He's a HOF guy after all. Now if he is god-awful in April/May you can start sitting him more. But you have to at least give the appearance that you are trying your best to win and satisfy that fans that want to see him play.
How many Reds fans are going to stay away from the park because Votto isn't playing?
 
I mean sure, from a theoretical point of view you are right. Reds are not a playoff team this year and should be using all the ABs for the young guys.

But being practical you have to let Votto get ABs 4-6 days a week because you have fans that want to see him. He's a HOF guy after all. Now if he is god-awful in April/May you can start sitting him more. But you have to at least give the appearance that you are trying your best to win and satisfy that fans that want to see him play.
I can think of 25 million reasons you play Votto.
 
How many Reds fans are going to stay away from the park because Votto isn't playing?
Look, I know you mean well, but you simply cannot play A and AA players at the major league level. You are setting them up for failure. It's process. I mean do you see any other teams draft guys in June and put them immediatley at the big league level? No, because it's a process to get to the major league level. Just because you have vets does no mean your taking at bats away from younger players. They are getting at bats in A, AA and AAA.
 

Take it with a grain of salt, but sounds like Bally might terminate its contract with the Reds once it reaches bankruptcy court, thus leading to MLB streaming the Reds’ games for free … for now. See article attached.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
So no games on cable tv? That should go over well.
 
How many Reds fans are going to stay away from the park because Votto isn't playing?
I have no idea. But I know there are some who WILL show up to see him. They wear Votto shirts and bring signs. People like seeing the HOF guys play, and now he is Mr Tik Tok / Instagram too, so more popular than ever.
 
Look, I know you mean well, but you simply cannot play A and AA players at the major league level. You are setting them up for failure. It's process. I mean do you see any other teams draft guys in June and put them immediatley at the big league level? No, because it's a process to get to the major league level. Just because you have vets does no mean your taking at bats away from younger players. They are getting at bats in A, AA and AAA.
Who said anything about playing an A player in his place?

This season should be all about Tyler Stephenson at 1B. Time to find out if he can be your everyday 1B for the next decade.
 
I have no idea. But I know there are some who WILL show up to see him. They wear Votto shirts and bring signs. People like seeing the HOF guys play, and now he is Mr Tik Tok / Instagram too, so more popular than ever.
Probably.

Playing Votto does not make this team better for the future.
 
Nick Senzel, no spring training.
No big loss at this point. Bell said the other day they’ve got him working both in the outfield and in the infield, suggesting he’s probably the 13th and final position player if he ever gets healthy.

Seems like they’ve got Senzel booked for the bench utility role that they’ll probably have Chad Pinder doing to start the year. At best he’d be the right-handed part of a center field platoon and a backup infielder if someone gets hurt during a game or needs a day off.

I really think he’ll be in a new uniform next year if not sooner.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
I can think of 25 million reasons you play Votto.
Legacy — not money — is what will get Votto his playing time this year.

In the grand scheme of things (i.e. the Reds’ payroll is meager enough that they’re not hurting for money), paying Votto $32 million to go elsewhere wouldn’t be that much more drastic than paying Moustakas $22 million to go home. But Votto’s Reds history is going to afford him every chance to prove he’s still a viable option.

P.S. The $32M number is his 2023 salary + buyout of his 2024 team option year.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
Look, I know you mean well, but you simply cannot play A and AA players at the major league level. You are setting them up for failure. It's process. I mean do you see any other teams draft guys in June and put them immediatley at the big league level? No, because it's a process to get to the major league level. Just because you have vets does no mean your taking at bats away from younger players. They are getting at bats in A, AA and AAA.
CES got drafted in the summer of 2021. Maybe they’ll have him start in AAA, but it’s not like it would be impossible to skip AAA to get to the majors. India never played AAA ball.

The Braves have 21 year olds come up and contribute right away. Not sure why a 23-year-old CES couldn’t do the same. Some guys just have the natural talent and makeup to make it work, regardless of perceived lack of experience.

If anything is going to keep him from making the roster, it’ll be:
1. His shaky defense and learning 1B.
2. The presence of Joey Votto on the roster.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
So no games on cable tv? That should go over well.
I sure wouldn’t want to be the one figuring it all out. My best guess is that the future of the Reds games on cable could be as its own standalone subscription channel, similar to HBO or movie channels or the Playboy channel (does that still exist??).

While there’s obviously money to be made with that, I still think the league would want to drive as many people to MLB.tv as possible with the lure of free games for a little bit. Get them used to the service, perhaps interested in watching more than just the Reds there, then start charging a subscription fee there.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
Do I need to explain the concept of "sunk costs" to you again? It has been a couple years. Just because someone is getting a lot of money does not mean they automatically get to play the most. (See Russell Westbrook, Jason Heyward, and others).
Not sure if you do Twitter, if you do, go on and find Charlie Goldsmith's latest brief discussing Votto, Stephenson, Myers, Encarnsion-Strand and the potential log jam at first base.
 
No big loss at this point. Bell said the other day they’ve got him working both in the outfield and in the infield, suggesting he’s probably the 13th and final position player if he ever gets healthy.

Seems like they’ve got Senzel booked for the bench utility role that they’ll probably have Chad Pinder doing to start the year. At best he’d be the right-handed part of a center field platoon and a backup infielder if someone gets hurt during a game or needs a day off.

I really think he’ll be in a new uniform next year if not sooner.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
At least we're not depending on him this year.
 
Not sure if you do Twitter, if you do, go on and find Charlie Goldsmith's latest brief discussing Votto, Stephenson, Myers, Encarnsion-Strand and the potential log jam at first base.
What log jam? You said Votto was playing first because they didn't have anyone in the minors ready.
 
Glad to see a talented young hitter get shunted to the minors so to-be-40-year-old, coming off shoulder surgery Votto can get maximum playing time during a rebuild that needs to start yielding positive momentum ASAP.

The Reds’ decision making sucks. This better be just to manipulate service time. Make no mistake, the 2023 Reds lineup is weaker without CES in it.


It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
Glad to see a talented young hitter get shunted to the minors so to-be-40-year-old, coming off shoulder surgery Votto can get maximum playing time during a rebuild that needs to start yielding positive momentum ASAP.

The Reds’ decision making sucks. This better be just to manipulate service time. Make no mistake, the 2023 Reds lineup is weaker without CES in it.


It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Votto still bangs 😉
 
So hear me out here …

Let’s assume with Votto back that Wil Myers exclusively plays RF (and maybe DH once in a blue moon).

That would leave Votto, CES and Stephenson to cover 1B, DH and Stephenson’s purported 65 games at catcher.

OK, so let’s say in those 65 catching games, Votto and CES cover 1B and DH. So that’s puts each of them at 65 games played right there.

That leaves 97 games at 1B and 97 games at DH to cover, or a total of 194 spots open. Let’s say you give 75 of those spots to Stephenson and 85 to CES. That leaves 34 spots for Votto.

So your total games played would be:

CES: 150
Stephenson: 140
Votto: 99

That seems like a good distribution of playing time to me.

Now, besides those three, your other 10 position players to start the year are:

C: Casali, Maile
INF: India, Steer, Barrero, Newman
OF: Myers, Fraley, Friedl, Benson

Just jettison Senzel at this point; he doesn’t really fit. And would we really miss Chad Pinder if he failed to make the team?

Whenever McLain and Elly come up, jettison Maile (go back to 2 catchers) and Newman.

So tell me again why it makes sense to send CES to the minors?

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
Glad to see a talented young hitter get shunted to the minors so to-be-40-year-old, coming off shoulder surgery Votto can get maximum playing time during a rebuild that needs to start yielding positive momentum ASAP.

The Reds’ decision making sucks. This better be just to manipulate service time. Make no mistake, the 2023 Reds lineup is weaker without CES in it.


It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
I hate this team
 
So hear me out here …

Let’s assume with Votto back that Wil Myers exclusively plays RF (and maybe DH once in a blue moon).

That would leave Votto, CES and Stephenson to cover 1B, DH and Stephenson’s purported 65 games at catcher.

OK, so let’s say in those 65 catching games, Votto and CES cover 1B and DH. So that’s puts each of them at 65 games played right there.

That leaves 97 games at 1B and 97 games at DH to cover, or a total of 194 spots open. Let’s say you give 75 of those spots to Stephenson and 85 to CES. That leaves 34 spots for Votto.

So your total games played would be:

CES: 150
Stephenson: 140
Votto: 99

That seems like a good distribution of playing time to me.

Now, besides those three, your other 10 position players to start the year are:

C: Casali, Maile
INF: India, Steer, Barrero, Newman
OF: Myers, Fraley, Friedl, Benson

Just jettison Senzel at this point; he doesn’t really fit. And would we really miss Chad Pinder if he failed to make the team?

Whenever McLain and Elly come up, jettison Maile (go back to 2 catchers) and Newman.

So tell me again why it makes sense to send CES to the minors?

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Only if it is to manipulate service time.
 
So hear me out here …

Let’s assume with Votto back that Wil Myers exclusively plays RF (and maybe DH once in a blue moon).

That would leave Votto, CES and Stephenson to cover 1B, DH and Stephenson’s purported 65 games at catcher.

OK, so let’s say in those 65 catching games, Votto and CES cover 1B and DH. So that’s puts each of them at 65 games played right there.

That leaves 97 games at 1B and 97 games at DH to cover, or a total of 194 spots open. Let’s say you give 75 of those spots to Stephenson and 85 to CES. That leaves 34 spots for Votto.

So your total games played would be:

CES: 150
Stephenson: 140
Votto: 99

That seems like a good distribution of playing time to me.

Now, besides those three, your other 10 position players to start the year are:

C: Casali, Maile
INF: India, Steer, Barrero, Newman
OF: Myers, Fraley, Friedl, Benson

Just jettison Senzel at this point; he doesn’t really fit. And would we really miss Chad Pinder if he failed to make the team?

Whenever McLain and Elly come up, jettison Maile (go back to 2 catchers) and Newman.

So tell me again why it makes sense to send CES to the minors?

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Totally agree with your division of games/ABs for Stephenson, CES and Votto. Myers needs to be 100% OF if everyone stays healthy - we lack real OF bats without him.

All this is assuming of course that Stephenson survives the 65 games behind the plate, which he probably won't. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. The over/under for the foul tip concussion is April 26th; place your bets. The front office/Bell are idiots. For the 100th time, the Reds should not have him catching! They have Casali, Maile and Romine. Figure it out.

As for sending CES and EDLC to minor league camp, why is that decision made on March 14th? At least let them keep getting ABs against mostly MLB pitchers for a couple more weeks before you break camp and head north. The Reds are just too dumb to believe.
 
What log jam? You said Votto was playing first because they didn't have anyone in the minors ready.
I think the plan is Votto about 75% of the time at first, DH otherwise. Wil Myers and Stephenson are not natural first basemen, but you have a chance to dabbled them in there a little. Stephenson could be a long term solution, but maybe not. I don't see Myers as a Red more than a year or two.
So yes, we don't have anyone ready in the minors. Sure we like Encarnacion-Strand now, but he's not been above AA ball so let's pump the brakes for now.
 
Good to see Hunter Greene go 5 innings yesterday. As much as the Reds have struggled in the past with drafting and developing pitchers, it seems like they are doing great with Greene. He's right on schedule for opening day and I REALLY hope we have a stud starter we can lean on for years to come.
 
I think the plan is Votto about 75% of the time at first, DH otherwise. Wil Myers and Stephenson are not natural first basemen, but you have a chance to dabbled them in there a little. Stephenson could be a long term solution, but maybe not.
"Stephenson could be a long term solution, but maybe not."

But you want to use this season to give Votto 75% of the PT at first base? Why?

if you want to know if the best hitter in your organization can play a different position so he can stay in the lineup every day, then yoy play him at that position every day during an already lost season!

Giving Votto PT at first does nothing to find out if Stephenson can play first base.

Stop being so damn dense!
I don't see Myers as a Red more than a year or two.
So yes, we don't have anyone ready in the minors. Sure we like Encarnacion-Strand now, but he's not been above AA ball so let's pump the brakes for now.
You just got done saying Stephenson may or may not be the future first basemen.
Why would we even consider Myers?
Strand needs at least a half a season at AAA IMO.
 
Joey Votto is THE BEST HITTER on your current team. You stop being so dense. This whole "sunk costs" is such a vague comment. I mean if you're already set on not winning and not putting the best product of the field in 2023, then what are we doing? Teams would just sign the best high school players annually and throw them out on the field with your thinking. It does not work that way. There are pleanty of at bats all season fo these guys. We'll find out if Stephenson can play first base (defensively) and honestly, I'm still not sold he's a pounder that you need to have at first. I think Stephenson will be a nice player, .265/ .270 15-20 hrs, 35 doubles. I want our next first baseman to be a 40 hr guy
 
Joey Votto is THE BEST HITTER on your current team. You stop being so dense. This whole "sunk costs" is such a vague comment. I mean if you're already set on not winning and not putting the best product of the field in 2023, then what are we doing? Teams would just sign the best high school players annually and throw them out on the field with your thinking. It does not work that way. There are pleanty of at bats all season fo these guys. We'll find out if Stephenson can play first base (defensively) and honestly, I'm still not sold he's a pounder that you need to have at first. I think Stephenson will be a nice player, .265/ .270 15-20 hrs, 35 doubles. I want our next first baseman to be a 40 hr guy
So you think the 39 year old guy who hit .205 last year with 11 HR is the best hitter on the team?

That seems like a big problem to me. If he is in fact the best hitter on the team, does that seem like a roster that is trying to win this year? Not to me.

So if you are not trying to win this year, why do you insist on having the 39 year old get so many ABs? Especially when he will not be here next year? It is all very illogical. Which exactly matches how the Reds front office thinks.
 
Joey Votto is THE BEST HITTER on your current team. You stop being so dense. This whole "sunk costs" is such a vague comment. I mean if you're already set on not winning and not putting the best product of the field in 2023, then what are we doing? Teams would just sign the best high school players annually and throw them out on the field with your thinking. It does not work that way. There are pleanty of at bats all season fo these guys. We'll find out if Stephenson can play first base (defensively) and honestly, I'm still not sold he's a pounder that you need to have at first. I think Stephenson will be a nice player, .265/ .270 15-20 hrs, 35 doubles. I want our next first baseman to be a 40 hr guy
1. Joey Votto’s past four or five seasons at the plate have been a very mixed bag, with his summer heater in 2021 being the standout period for him. Given his generally declining results, it’s not at all conclusive that he’s the best hitter on the team, especially coming off a shoulder surgery at an age when most athletes’ bodies no longer want to cooperate like in their youth, forcing them to retire. Maybe he’ll find another good year, but a safer bet for best hitter would be Wil Myers or Tyler Stephenson or even Jonathan India. And I won’t count Jake Fraley out.

2. “Sunk cost” is not vague. It means the Reds are paying $32 million for this year and to get out of next year, regardless of whether playing Joey Votto is in the best interest of the team’s current and long-term goals.

3. The Reds are already set on not winning in 2023. If they wanted to win this year, Castillo, Mahle, Winker, Suarez, etc. would still be in Cincinnati. Putting the best feasible product on the field in 2023 would’ve included those guys.

4. There are very few 40 HR guys in MLB. In fact, only four guys reached 40 HRs last season — three outfielders and Pete Alonso. And only 23 total players even hit 30 HRs, only 8 of which were first basemen. Sure, it would be nice to have a huge bopper at 1B, but those guys are pretty scarce. So I wouldn’t disqualify Tyler from playing 1B just because he doesn’t have huge HR power. Heck, Votto has only reached 20 HR once in the past five years including the 2020 Covid year (36 in 2021).

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
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