There is most certainly a routine involved in playing two games a week. Coaches may also get the chance to run an offense, play a particular player in an abnormal position, throw in a wrinkle to a defense, etc. against a lesser opponent in preparation for a future opponent. In northwest Ohio, getting out of districts is a buzzsaw for teams in both the boys and girls side. Past years and this year included, we often see two to three top ten teams in a district, especially in D3 and D4 for both boys and girls. Having that extra game may help or may sway other teams from coming to your side of the bracket. It deters the 2 or 3 seed from taking the bye on your side of the bracket if you are the one seed. It makes complete strategic sense. But, as I pointed out, it can backfire, as was the case with 3 seed Parkway this year.
Is Ohio Girls HS Basketball On 'Life Support'?
- Thread starter radiodaveagain
- Start date
There are very demanding programs and there are schools that roll the ball out in Oct for the first time. There are talented teams and those with almost no talent. There are highly skilled teams and those that can't dribble, pass, shoot with form, box out, or get in a defensive stance.
When one of these dedicated programs with a bunch of talent and skill meets up with one of these schools that doesnt have any of that (usually in a sectional opener) you get these scores.
I sat through some unwatchable Hiland-Toronto games 9-13 years ago. The best one was like 85-10. The worst was 106-4. Dave Schlabach took a lot of heat for that last score, but it actually represented a ton of restraint. He did everything a coach could do. If he hadn't, that game could have easily been 250-0.
So, it's not new. I don't know what you do. You can't force schools to care or coaches to work their team hard and teach fundamentals.
Perhaps the saddest thing I saw was the Hiland girls win a regional final 64-9. The fact is, particularly in Div 4, there are a lot of schools that aren't trying that hard. They have the sport for the sake of having it, and that's about where the effort ends.
When one of these dedicated programs with a bunch of talent and skill meets up with one of these schools that doesnt have any of that (usually in a sectional opener) you get these scores.
I sat through some unwatchable Hiland-Toronto games 9-13 years ago. The best one was like 85-10. The worst was 106-4. Dave Schlabach took a lot of heat for that last score, but it actually represented a ton of restraint. He did everything a coach could do. If he hadn't, that game could have easily been 250-0.
So, it's not new. I don't know what you do. You can't force schools to care or coaches to work their team hard and teach fundamentals.
Perhaps the saddest thing I saw was the Hiland girls win a regional final 64-9. The fact is, particularly in Div 4, there are a lot of schools that aren't trying that hard. They have the sport for the sake of having it, and that's about where the effort ends.
gcfqn
Active member
Same thing goes with some of the city programs. Some athletes with talent gravitate to one school or a private.
You know, I've stopped worrying about talent accumulation. Certainly, if you can get an elite AAU team to come to your school, you immediately become a state contender.
But we are talking here about being competitive. If a coach has a short and no-talent squad, they can focus on teaching them to dribble with both hands, execute a bounce/chest pass, shoot with form, get in a defensive stance and play deny, and learn rebounding/block outs.
If you can't do any of those things and are short and have no talent, you are going to end up on the wrong side of one of those 85-1 games.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
I would rather go back to assigning spots on the bracket. The first-round games are "play-in" games. They are not there for "practice". Schedule your regular season better if you are afraid of being off too long.
BelowTheLine
Well-known member
I mean I can think back to 1995 when East Canton's girls went to state and they were up 50-2 at halftime of a DIV game. Second half their coach literally made them stand in a 2-3 zone with two girls standing on the elbows, two girls on the blocks and one in the middle of the lane. Literally stood there with their arms up. You are right. Way too many schools have sports just to say they have them and have no expectations or pride in the what they put on the field/court.
The Wizards have had some great teams.
In one of those Toronto games Coach Schlabach told the girls to play 2-3 zone and stay in the paint. His players looked at him bewildered and asked, "What is a 2-3 zone?" Lol. They had no idea what zone defense was!
Crestview had one of the toughest schedules in D4. They were rewarded per the Martin RPI ranking system. 100% off the mark on this comment. I can agree to disagree with whether or not teams should play the first round game. I believe they earned the right to choose. But the system is NOW set up to reward harder schedules.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
I must have missed something - don't the coaches vote on seeding for the tournament? If they don't, when did that change?
OH_sportsfan
Member
The problem with the automatic assignment of seeds is that in the super districts now that we have in NEO there are 36 teams and 3 districts (speaking for D1). We would have to go back to the automatic assignment of schools to a district and you see the same teams every year in the postseason. I like the aspect of picking which district you want to play in. Maybe instead of picking your exact lines on the bracket, the teams pick in order which district they want to play in and then you seed them 1-12 in each district according to the overall voting results? This would take out top seeds playing first round games but also give them choice where they want to play. Not perfect but a thought.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
I have the ultimate solution that keeps everyone happy!
Do 2 separate tournaments just like NCAA does it. Have there be a qualification to play in the big dance (NCAA Championship tournament), whether that be number of wins or RPI. If you don't qualify, you play in the secondary tournament (NIT). This way, every team still makes a playoff, OHSAA still gets all their money (tbh, this probably brings in more money than the current setup)....win/win for all parties...
You could probably eliminate sectionals altogether with this route...at the very least sectional semifinals. This would get rid of some of those blowouts/unnecessary games we've been talking about!
Do 2 separate tournaments just like NCAA does it. Have there be a qualification to play in the big dance (NCAA Championship tournament), whether that be number of wins or RPI. If you don't qualify, you play in the secondary tournament (NIT). This way, every team still makes a playoff, OHSAA still gets all their money (tbh, this probably brings in more money than the current setup)....win/win for all parties...
You could probably eliminate sectionals altogether with this route...at the very least sectional semifinals. This would get rid of some of those blowouts/unnecessary games we've been talking about!
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OH_sportsfan
Member
What are your qualifications in order to make the top tournament?
CasualFan24
Well-known member
Couldn't it be an RPI or rating system similar to football?
CasualFan24
Well-known member
Since you'd be shortening the tournament lengths, you could also add 1 or 2 more games to the regular season....wouldn't have to, but would be an option as well...
CasualFan24
Well-known member
I just think it's such a good idea really. Creates better games, better matchups, more revenue is likely, costs are the same except maybe officiating costs go up slightly....(sigh) makes too much sense for OHSAA to do something like this lol
The entire state has gone to the Martin RPI system this year. Your ranking is based upon wins/losses, strength of opponent, strength of wins, and so on. The ratings power index gets rid of some of the stuff that has happened in past years of coaches working together to rank a team in their sectional lower than they actually are in order to push them to one side of a bracket. Stories of this are told on the boys forum on Yappi.
It is the equivalent of a computer ranking system used in college sports and beyond. Many liken it to the way football rankings are based in Ohio. It is likely here to stay but is on it's first "trial" year. Therefore, soft schedules do not help a team. A 17-4 Crestview team is ahead of every 3 loss teams and most 2 loss teams in the state. A 16-6 Berlin Hiland team is ranked 5th in the state right behind Crestview and is ahead of almost every 2, 3, 4 and 5 loss team.
OH_sportsfan
Member
Northeast District still uses coaches voting to seed teams. I'm not sure about the rest of the state but I thought only the Northwest District was using the Martin rankings for their tournament seeding.
I stand corrected.
Northwest used it as the final determination on seeding. It's being tested for statewide usage.