Memphis Police beating suspect

and you understand that municipal police departments are trained, hired, screened, supervised, under the organization known as a municipal corporation and subject to no oversight by any entity other than that of the municipal corporation's elected officials? and you understand that there are at least 17,000 separate, independent, policing authorities in the United States, each governed and overseen only by elected and appointed municipal officers?

and that there is NO mandatory requirement that they report ANYTHING to ANYBODY except the aforesaid elected and appointed municipal officials?
Yes. I understand most of that. Some if it I don't particularly like your description, but, in general, I agree.

They are accountable to a chief of police, a mayor, and a city council. The people of a community elect those people or, in the case of COP, they are appointed by an elected person or group. So, there is community accountability. Obviously, there have been some spectacular failures that we can point to, but that accountability keeps most police departments honest and responsive to the community they serve.

Where your narrative leads is toward federalization of local police - which I strongly oppose. First, I would need an example of where federalizing any thing made that thing better. Secondly, despite ample examples of where community accountability has failed, that community still will have a better sense of what needs to be done than some anus sphincter sitting at a desk in DC. FWIW
 
Yes. I understand most of that. Some if it I don't particularly like your description, but, in general, I agree.

They are accountable to a chief of police, a mayor, and a city council. The people of a community elect those people or, in the case of COP, they are appointed by an elected person or group. So, there is community accountability. Obviously, there have been some spectacular failures that we can point to, but that accountability keeps most police departments honest and responsive to the community they serve.

Where your narrative leads is toward federalization of local police - which I strongly oppose. First, I would need an example of where federalizing any thing made that thing better. Secondly, despite ample examples of where community accountability has failed, that community still will have a better sense of what needs to be done than some anus sphincter sitting at a desk in DC. FWIW
Nyet, I don't at all advocate for federalization because there aren't enough federal employees to perform the oversight.

What is needed is citizen involvement. Where I disagree with you is the idea that the citizenry is presently empowered to oversee policing because the public has no access to information due to secrecy imposed by the current configuration of public/policing authority communications in Ohio.

Most PSAPS (Public Safety Access Points) are operated by shadowy quasi governmental entities known as RCOGS or Regional Councils of Governments which operate in complete secrecy and which make it nearly impossible for members of the public to access information about the activities of municipal police departments.

You might not be aware of COGS or PSAPS. but incredibly enough any two legislative authorities of any two political subdivisions may form a COG, even across State lines.



Section 167.01 | Regional councils of government.
Ohio Revised Code/Title 1 State Government/Chapter 167 Regional Councils of Governments
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Effective:November 17, 1967Latest Legislation:Senate Bill 266 - 107th General AssemblyPDF:Download Authenticated PDF

That governing bodies of any two or more counties, municipal corporations, townships, special districts, school districts, or other political subdivisions may enter into an agreement with each other, or with the governing bodies of any counties, municipal corporations, townships, special districts, school districts or other political subdivisions of any other state to the extent that laws of such other state permit, for establishment of a regional council consisting of such political subdivisions.

Without going too deeply into the weeds here, IF there is a COG in the area where you reside, and it is operating a PSAP where all calls for service for police, fire, and EMT are directed through the 911 "system" AND you are unaware of the arrangement, it is highly unlikely that you as a citizen would have any clue on how to obtain information on safety service operations, or communications between the public and the providers of safety services such as your municipal police department.

It very well may be that such a COG is currently operating PSAPS in your area, and you don't even know the COG or PSAP exists.

ON PSAPS: https://www.fcc.gov/general/9-1-1-master-psap-registry

psap DEFINITION IN OHIO REVISED CODE

(P) "Public safety answering point" means a facility to which 9-1-1 system calls for a specific territory are initially routed for response and where personnel respond to specific requests for emergency service by directly dispatching the appropriate emergency service provider, relaying a message to the appropriate provider, or transferring the call to the appropriate provider.

OHIO ADMINISTRATIVE CODE : PSAPS



Chapter 5507-1 | 9-1-1 Public Safety Answering Points
Ohio Administrative Code/5507

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Rule
Rule 5507-1-01 | Purpose.

Rule 5507-1-02 | Scope.

Rule 5507-1-03 | Definitions.

Rule 5507-1-04 | Periodic review.

Rule 5507-1-05 | Minimum staffing.

Rule 5507-1-06 | Prioritization.

Rule 5507-1-07 | Minimum training standards.

Rule 5507-1-08 | Continuing training standards.

Rule 5507-1-09 | Emergency medical dispatching.

Rule 5507-1-10 | Emergency power.

Rule 5507-1-11 | Security.

Rule 5507-1-12 | Minimum capability.

Rule 5507-1-13 | Temporary PSAP.

Rule 5507-1-14 | Call processing software.

Rule 5507-1-15 | Logging/recording.

Rule 5507-1-16 | Graphical information systems.

Rule 5507-1-17 | Statistical analysis.

Rule 5507-1-18 | Minimum call answering standards.

Rule 5507-1-19 | Rules enforcement.
 
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Any idea why the victim fled the scene initially, resisted arrest?? Why are these details no out?
 
Ok, so still trying to piece things together. All the officers were black, most were younger. Part of the Scorpion Unit, sent to clean up the streets , I guess. The victim also black, 29 years old, living at home ( due to the pandemic :rolleyes:) has a kid, working most recently at Fed Ex with his dad. Of course Mom says he's a perfect kid.

So...he's pulled over, he fled the scene. Why? Does he have a history with these officers, or a history period. To date, there has been nothing released about his past. record if any.

This just does not add up. And of course we go to the experience and training of the cops. To me, there is no training that comes before common sense. Something made these cops beat the crap out of this kid. He was tall and thin, so I don't think he posed a threat.
He was ripped out of the car.
 
And you wonder why he tried to run ...

The officer jumps out with his firearm drawn and joins a pair of officers rushing toward the front seat.

One officer pulls Nichols out of his car, and all three officers immediately start screaming “On the ground!”

These are the first orders in the bombardment of confusing commands that confound Nichols and prompt a cascade of retribution.

Nichols points out that he is sitting on the ground, as the officers instructed him to do.

But multiple officers shout the same command over and over with intensifying frustration and physical threats.

“Get on the ground!” one orders. “I’m gonna tase your .”

It eventually becomes evident that the officers would like Nichols not only on the ground but also lying down.

When Nichols repositions himself, it appears to further antagonize the officers. He tries to convey that he poses no threat.

“You guys are really doing a lot right now,” he says. “I’m just trying to go home.”

With officers pinning down his arms, pressing a Taser against his leg and barking intensifying verbal threats, Nichols explodes: “I am on the ground!”

Finally, one of the officers yells more specific instructions: “On your stomach.”

Three seconds later, one of the officers shoots pepper spray into Nichols’ face.

The review of the available footage found that officers shouted at least 71 commands during the approximately 13-minute period..
 
Any idea why the victim fled the scene initially, resisted arrest?? Why are these details no out?
I suspect that when he stopped and was grabbed and thrown down, the fear kicked in. Thats not a normal thing police do. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if he was under the influence of something that clouded his judgment. Either/or of those are sufficient to explain it - or both of them in play at the same time.
 
Of all the deaths from an interaction with the police, IMO this is the worst I have seen. It looked more like a gang on a corner playing the knockout game.
 
Yes, I saw that, worked with his Dad at FexEx, been there 9 months. Lived at home with his parents.
I suspect that when he stopped and was grabbed and thrown down, the fear kicked in. Thats not a normal thing police do. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if he was under the influence of something that clouded his judgment. Either/or of those are sufficient to explain it - or both of them in play at the same time.
Or maybe it was the punches and pepper spray. You can let them beat you to death or you can try to give yourself at least a chance to survive and run.
 
Ok, so still trying to piece things together. All the officers were black, most were younger. Part of the Scorpion Unit, sent to clean up the streets , I guess. The victim also black, 29 years old, living at home ( due to the pandemic :rolleyes:) has a kid, working most recently at Fed Ex with his dad. Of course Mom says he's a perfect kid.

So...he's pulled over, he fled the scene. Why? Does he have a history with these officers, or a history period. To date, there has been nothing released about his past. record if any.

This just does not add up. And of course we go to the experience and training of the cops. To me, there is no training that comes before common sense. Something made these cops beat the crap out of this kid. He was tall and thin, so I don't think he posed a threat.
When a pack of liars gas lights the lie over and over that the cops are out to kill you, maybe black guys panic now ?
 
When they pull you out of the car, push you onto the ground and pepper spray you, maybe panic is the appropriate response?
The time to consider appropriate response is always BEFORE you flee and/or resist. Nothing good happens when you adrenalinilize a cop.
This situation, potentially, may illustrate that something can be both 100% the cops’ fault AND still avoidable via choices made by the victim here. These individual things are not mutually exclusive.
 
And you wonder why he tried to run ...

The officer jumps out with his firearm drawn and joins a pair of officers rushing toward the front seat.

One officer pulls Nichols out of his car, and all three officers immediately start screaming “On the ground!”

These are the first orders in the bombardment of confusing commands that confound Nichols and prompt a cascade of retribution.

Nichols points out that he is sitting on the ground, as the officers instructed him to do.

But multiple officers shout the same command over and over with intensifying frustration and physical threats.

“Get on the ground!” one orders. “I’m gonna tase your .”

It eventually becomes evident that the officers would like Nichols not only on the ground but also lying down.

When Nichols repositions himself, it appears to further antagonize the officers. He tries to convey that he poses no threat.

“You guys are really doing a lot right now,” he says. “I’m just trying to go home.”

With officers pinning down his arms, pressing a Taser against his leg and barking intensifying verbal threats, Nichols explodes: “I am on the ground!”

Finally, one of the officers yells more specific instructions: “On your stomach.”

Three seconds later, one of the officers shoots pepper spray into Nichols’ face.

The review of the available footage found that officers shouted at least 71 commands during the approximately 13-minute period..
the behavior is disgraceful and more disgraceful that the cops had no doubt they could get away with it.

that's the real problem here. policing is strictly a municipal issue and has to be addressed with responsible municipal officials specifically the Mayor or City Administrator Director of Public Safety, Chief of Police all are responsible for what officers in their chain of authority, DO. those are the public officials under whose authority their appointed officers operate.
guaranteed. you saw they had bodycams on recording it they obviously werent worried about what the bodycams showed because they figured they would never be seen. its easy as pie for police dept to say nobody had their bodycam on.
 
the behavior is disgraceful and more disgraceful that the cops had no doubt they could get away with it.

that's the real problem here. policing is strictly a municipal issue and has to be addressed with responsible municipal officials specifically the Mayor or City Administrator Director of Public Safety, Chief of Police all are responsible for what officers in their chain of authority, DO. those are the public officials under whose authority their appointed officers operate.

guaranteed. you saw they had bodycams on recording it they obviously werent worried about what the bodycams showed because they figured they would never be seen. its easy as pie for police dept to say nobody had their bodycam on.
The time to consider appropriate response is always BEFORE you flee and/or resist. Nothing good happens when you adrenalinilize a cop.
This situation, potentially, may illustrate that something can be both 100% the cops’ fault AND still avoidable via choices made by the victim here. These individual things are not mutually exclusive.
get out of here those cops are a disgrace and had done it many times before but the victim didn't up and die.

they screwed up and got a little too over enthusiastic about the dummy they were beating on.

when the top brass found out he died they looked at each other and said. WTF we gonna do NOW?

and they looked at each other and said, "Well throw those five <choose your word> under the bus and throw them under the bus real FAST like"
 
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the behavior is disgraceful and more disgraceful that the cops had no doubt they could get away with it.

that's the real problem here. policing is strictly a municipal issue and has to be addressed with responsible municipal officials specifically the Mayor or City Administrator Director of Public Safety, Chief of Police all are responsible for what officers in their chain of authority, DO. those are the public officials under whose authority their appointed officers operate.

guaranteed. you saw they had bodycams on recording it they obviously werent worried about what the bodycams showed because they figured they would never be seen. its easy as pie for police dept to say nobody had their bodycam on.
Guaranteed, nothing. If you are taking this as seriously as you should be, you shouldn’t be talking out of your .

But it’s not easy for an officer to turn them off if he has been ordered otherwise. perhaps these guys don’t have an option, and it’s up to their superior officer what is available for public consumption ?

that would be my ideal scenario. Not at the discretion of the officer, not just a total dump into the public.

I just watched the footage of one officer body cam. The audio quality was poor. I really could not distinguish much of anything, but that officer drove for quite a while before he got out of the car and was engaged with the subject. You sound like you’ve been following this pretty closely. Was there an extended pursuit ?
 
Guaranteed, nothing. If you are taking this as seriously as you should be, you shouldn’t be talking out of your .

But it’s not easy for an officer to turn them off if he has been ordered otherwise. perhaps these guys don’t have an option, and it’s up to their superior officer what is available for public consumption ?

that would be my ideal scenario. Not at the discretion of the officer, not just a total dump into the public.

I just watched the footage of one officer body cam. The audio quality was poor. I really could not distinguish much of anything, but that officer drove for quite a while before he got out of the car and was engaged with the subject. You sound like you’ve been following this pretty closely. Was there an extended pursuit ?
its as simple as pushing a button to turn them off but they figured they didn't need to.

they look at policy manuals as "guidelines" that cannot always be followed in the field under chaos and fast action"

have you ever seen the standard municipal police policy manual nowadays? its 600 pages that none of them take the time to read.

sheesh too bad for them, the kid up and died and they got thrown under the bus.
 
its as simple as pushing a button to turn them off but they figured they didn't need to.

sheesh too bad for them, the kid up and died and they got thrown under the bus.
The point is that if the officer turns them off, by this point in development and implementation it’s known if it was his action. At this point, certainly that can be grounds for dismissal. There have been body cams for a long time, and there’s been all of the gamesmanship possible going on in some departments, no doubt. Some people always push the line, and some people in authority can’t deal with it properly.

A city the size of Memphis Tennessee is way past that by now. That’s the only thing we can guarantee here. The people at the top have got it figured out how to manage the set up that they’re given, and they’re doing what they want to do the way they want to do it at this point. If nothing else, know that
 
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The time to consider appropriate response is always BEFORE you flee and/or resist. Nothing good happens when you adrenalinilize a cop.
This situation, potentially, may illustrate that something can be both 100% the cops’ fault AND still avoidable via choices made by the victim here. These individual things are not mutually exclusive.
Exactly what is the appropriate response when your are ripped from your car, beaten, and then pepper sprayed all the while attempting to comply to a barrage of conflicting orders. At some point, self preservation kicks in if you are a normal human being.
 
Exactly what is the appropriate response when your are ripped from your car, beaten, and then pepper sprayed all the while attempting to comply to a barrage of conflicting orders. At some point, self preservation kicks in if you are a normal human being.
Your normal response would be to clutch those pearls, bitch

just be cool, fool. Or if you’re nailed dead to rights, go buck wild and hope you get away.

if you’ve ever been through anything too real, you know that there’s no smart point in the middle here.
 
The point is that if the officer turns them off, by this point in development and implementation it’s known if it was his action. At this point, certainly that can be grounds for dismissal. There have been body cams for a long time, and there’s been all of the gamesmanship possible going on in some departments, no doubt. Some people always push the line, and some people in authority can’t deal with it properly.

A city the size of Memphis Tennessee is way past that by now. That’s the only thing we can guarantee here. The people at the top have got it figured out how to manage the set up that they’re given, and they’re doing what they want to do the way they want to do it at this point

alternatively, they have it figured out when they can get away with covering something up, and when they can't and they take action appropriately.

the cops all know the right things to say, in this case it was "He had his hand on my gun" as the excuse for beating him senseless.

most of the time they can get away with it, go into grand jury and the grand jury says "oh ok, he had his hand on your gun and you feared for your life," no indictment.

when everybody in the world knows any prosecutor get get a felony indictment on a ham sandwich if he really wants it
 
The point is that if the officer turns them off, by this point in development and implementation it’s known if it was his action. At this point, certainly that can be grounds for dismissal. There have been body cams for a long time, and there’s been all of the gamesmanship possible going on in some departments, no doubt. Some people always push the line, and some people in authority can’t deal with it properly.

A city the size of Memphis Tennessee is way past that by now. That’s the only thing we can guarantee here. The people at the top have got it figured out how to manage the set up that they’re given, and they’re doing what they want to do the way they want to do it at this point. If nothing else, know that
these cops best defense is the truth: that they did it all the time but usually the victim didn't die and the department helped cover it up
 
alternatively, they have it figured out when they can get away with covering something up, and when they can't and they take action appropriately.

the cops all know the right things to say, in this case it was "He had his hand on my gun" as the excuse for beating him senseless.

most of the time they can get away with it, go into grand jury and the grand jury says "oh ok, he had his hand on your gun and you feared for your life," no indictment.

when everybody in the world knows any prosecutor get get a felony indictment on a ham sandwich if he really wants it
If you are a head linesman in real life, I can’t imagine you’re very good at it. I don’t read a lot of objective reality under your username
 
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