2022 GCYL Football

[cincifbfan]

What is the point of having a playoff tournament if you're not going to try to win? If you're being truthful, you "developed" all your players in the regular season. Now, you get to the playoffs you admittedly could have won if you subbed differently. You had a chance to teach the kids how to win while at the same time developing them. They could have had another week of practice and another playoff game, but instead they turned in their equipment and are on the couch playing video games or watching YouTube.

Look, trying to win is great, but at this level, playing time and development is more important in my book. I know I have the minority opinion. I didn't choose to be in the tournament, league rules put my team there. I had 23 kids, and 21 of them played half of the game. 1 of my assistant coaches jobs is to track how much playing time every player gets. Could I have subbed differently, maybe, but the easiest way of tracking was to have my entire "2nd offense or defense" in at times. I realize it's not a perfect system, but it's what works for me. 2 of the other players were subbed in rotationally throughout the game and got really close to playing half of the snaps.

Why would I lie about developing my players?? What do I gain by that?

I have been pretty clear on my stance on how I view the importance of winning at ages before high school varsity.

 

[Omar]

What kids do u think would play for Little Panthers that aren’t able to at this time? What part of town do they live in? Why would a kid from the Taft or Sycamore area play for the Panthers when they already play for their local Little Panthers like team? Do Westside kids play for teams all across the city and I just don’t know about it? What programs have kids from all over the city that play in the SWOL?
I answered your questions, please answer mine without going on a diatribe.

My hope would be a little panthers team would get the kids from Taft to play. The Elder D is very good, but imagine them with Tayshawn Banks at Corner/Safety. However, I realize this is all a pipe dream and the logistics of putting it together are far more complex than what they do with Wrestling.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

Look, trying to win is great, but at this level, playing time and development is more important in my book. I know I have the minority opinion. I didn't choose to be in the tournament, league rules put my team there. I had 23 kids, and 21 of them played half of the game. 1 of my assistant coaches jobs is to track how much playing time every player gets. Could I have subbed differently, maybe, but the easiest way of tracking was to have my entire "2nd offense or defense" in at times. I realize it's not a perfect system, but it's what works for me. 2 of the other players were subbed in rotationally throughout the game and got really close to playing half of the snaps.

Why would I lie about developing my players?? What do I gain by that?

I have been pretty clear on my stance on how I view the importance of winning at ages before high school varsity.

I'm fine with the equal playing time at that age, but you missed my point about the playoffs. If it's so unimportant to win at elementary, junior high, freshman, and JV then why does it suddenly over night become important to win at Varsity? Why not equal playing time on Varsity also. Most the starters will not be moving on to college football, don't the 2nd string work just as hard as the 1st string? Are they not at all of the off season lifting and conditioning workouts? Are they not at every practice doing all the position group drills, playing scout team often times taking most of the punishment, and running every sprint at the end of practice?

 

[Patchwork]

48-0 in youth football is different than 25-0 in youth volleyball for 3 straight games. It can also be very different than 8-0 in soccer or 15+ -0 in baseball & softball. I've been on both sides of games like this at the youth level in baseball, soccer, and football. In football If they subbed very quickly, let's say 28-0, and it's the 1st half, it is what it is..... not much you can do about it if the other team's subs are still scoring. If they didn't sub, I have a huge problem. When I coach youth football, I have a constant rotation with ALL my players, even in close games, and even championship games. I'm all about development over winning at all levels except varsity high school. When I'm coaching youth football, if I go up 3 scores, I sub out everyone.....now I usually don't have enough for 2 whole "strings." If my subs are moving the ball easily and score again, I start having my unathletic linemen run the ball. I'm not trying to embarrass anyone. And those linemen love the opportunity to run the ball, and they gain a whole 1-2 yards maybe. If my backup defense is still tearing them up, I move my skill guys to the line, and my linemen to the skill positions. Again, there is no need to embarrass the other team.

The one year I helped with soccer, I did the same thing.... If we went up 3-4 quick, subs right away. I start moving offensive guys to defense so I don't pile it on..

Now, baseball is different, but again, I'm not trying to embarrass the other team. My 10 year old had a couple of games this year where our boys were just hitting the crap out of the ball. We went through our batting order 2x in the first inning. Unfortunately we were in a new league and there was not maximum number of batters per inning. I felt terrible. But, after we scored 7 quick runs (We were up 3-0 when a kid that typically struggles at the plate hit a 1 in a million grand slam), I stopped every single batter at first base, no matter how far they hit it. Period. Bottom of the inning, the other team went down 1, 2, 3. My son's team again was hitting like crazy, everyone got a single. We stopped that half of the inning after we batted everyone. There were 0 outs. The other team went down in order again. I told the other coach to let his entire team bat. The coach, the parents, and players all greatly appreciated it. I brought in a kid who had never pitched to pitch to them, and they got a couple of hits. The game was over after 2 innings by the league's run rule. I felt terrible, but you can't tell your players to not swing the bat. But you can do things to slow down or stop the bleeding (hopefully).

Again, there's a way to win with class, with 8 minute quarters, I have really, really difficult time believing 48-0 wasn't intentionally trying to "send a statement" in some way. With the 40 second play clock, each team gets around 25 plays for an entire game. So for the score to be 48-0 after 3 quarters, you are talking about maybe 20 plays. To score 6 or more TDs in that short of time frame is really, really difficult to do unintentionally.

Win with class people, it's youth sports. #1 goal should be teaching sportsmanship. Not being a A-hole.

The more I read these the more disturbing it is to me. The fact that no coach on ihm / ga side new the rules of sportsmanship and the 20 point rule to freeze the score at 4th qtr baffles me. As a coach you need to know your playing a team that might not be a good match up going into the game. The officals usually do a good job of managing this and talking to the coaches and assume they did. Where was the ihm coordinator in this? Did jude coach walk over and talk to the other coach or was it the 2’s scoring on them?

classless isn’t the word I would want to use after reading these. It’s much worse.

 

[cincifbfan]

I'm fine with the equal playing time at that age, but you missed my point about the playoffs. If it's so unimportant to win at elementary, junior high, freshman, and JV then why does it suddenly over night become important to win at Varsity? Why not equal playing time on Varsity also. Most the starters will not be moving on to college football, don't the 2nd string work just as hard as the 1st string? Are they not at all of the off season lifting and conditioning workouts? Are they not at every practice doing all the position group drills, playing scout team often times taking most of the punishment, and running every sprint at the end of practice?

What point did I miss about the playoffs? I didn't choose to be in the playoffs. If it was up to me, I wouldn't have been. It's important to win at Varsity because that's actually what matters. There are actual stakes on the line. Playoff hopes, state championships, community interest, and people's jobs. That's why it matters.

Now, you may not like my way, and that's fine. But my way seems to be working pretty well for our youth program. I've been coaching this level 5 years now. Our numbers increase as they get older, biggest increase is the next level, because kids and parents spread the word about how positive the experience was. My former teams that I have coached as they have gotten older have had success in the post-season that hasn't been seen in forever. Other coaches in the program have started adopting the same principals, and when they do, our success just continues to grow. So, it seems to be working out just fine for us.

Why do so many people have an obsession with winning at young ages? This is why so many people get turned off of sports as they get older. We as adults have to do better. When you do things the right way, you will find that you will win more than you lose, and that's been my experience so far, but the emphasis is definitely not on winning.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

What point did I miss about the playoffs? I didn't choose to be in the playoffs. If it was up to me, I wouldn't have been. It's important to win at Varsity because that's actually what matters. There are actual stakes on the line. Playoff hopes, state championships, community interest, and people's jobs. That's why it matters.

Varsity football is the only thing that matters? I agree Varsity football matters most if you're talking grades K through 12. It doesn't mean the lower level don't matter. Big difference.

 

[JElder]

My hope would be a little panthers team would get the kids from Taft to play. The Elder D is very good, but imagine them with Tayshawn Banks at Corner/Safety. However, I realize this is all a pipe dream and the logistics of putting it together are far more complex than what they do with Wrestling.

Do you think the grade school kids/Parents from Taft want to play basketball for Little Panthers when they can play in the Senators program? It would be no different than a kid from Visi not playing for Panthers so he could play for Taft. None of that makes sense and will never happen. Maybe there is a relative or an outlier or two but it's a pipe dream to think what Trey is suggesting is even possible. He knows that though but all he cares about is bashing everything Elder all the time.

 

[cincifbfan]

Varsity football is the only thing that matters? I agree Varsity football matters most if you're talking grades K through 12. It doesn't mean the lower level don't matter. Big difference.

I never said lower divisions don't matter; quite the contrary.

But winning in the lower divisions doesn't.

 

[JElder]

Varsity football is the only thing that matters? I agree Varsity football matters most if you're talking grades K through 12. It doesn't mean the lower level don't matter. Big difference.

Winning should matter at all levels just not at all costs.

 

[cincifbfan]

Winning should matter at all levels just not at all costs.

So where is the line drawn?

 

[cincifbfan]

And if winning matters, have your child play select. I have no problem with winning mentality when your child is playing select in any sport. But we are talking about rec sports. Winning should be way down the list of importance in recreational sports.

 

[OnTheLine85]

What kids do u think would play for Little Panthers that aren’t able to at this time? What part of town do they live in?

Kids that go to public schools on the westside (Oak Hills, Taylor, Cincy Public). If they started early, it could turn them to Elder. You disagree?

 

[OnTheLine85]

Do you think the grade school kids/Parents from Taft want to play basketball for Little Panthers when they can play in the Senators program? It would be no different than a kid from Visi not playing for Panthers so he could play for Taft. None of that makes sense and will never happen. Maybe there is a relative or an outlier or two but it's a pipe dream to think what Trey is suggesting is even possible. He knows that though but all he cares about is bashing everything Elder all the time.

Why is it out of the question for a kid that goes to, say, Bridgetown middle school, or CO Harrison, to play for the Westside Panther teams? Or even Carson or Covedale? If they're good enough, why not give them a shot?

For one, they are never asked, so you can't answer it. What is the fear of opening it up to those type of kids? The fear is that legacy Johnny gets his spot taken. Cmon, you know that's true.

I understand if at 8th grade, the kids have already committed to another school, then it doesn't make much sense to keep them. But if they're still deciding on a high school in 3rd-7th grade - why not try to find as much talent as you can?

 

[??????]

I'm fine with the equal playing time at that age, but you missed my point about the playoffs. If it's so unimportant to win at elementary, junior high, freshman, and JV then why does it suddenly over night become important to win at Varsity? Why not equal playing time on Varsity also. Most the starters will not be moving on to college football, don't the 2nd string work just as hard as the 1st string? Are they not at all of the off season lifting and conditioning workouts? Are they not at every practice doing all the position group drills, playing scout team often times taking most of the punishment, and running every sprint at the end of practice?

No kidding, great point, I get it in elementary school but WTF winnning only matters for varsity high school games. That’s what Trey claims

 

[OnTheLine85]

No kidding, great point, I get it in elementary school but WTF winnning only matters for varsity high school games. That’s what Trey claims

It's a difference in philosophy, and it can work. Development over wins. Alot of coaches aren't mature or patient enough to employ this method. But it gets better results in the long run. Especially if you're at a school that doesn't draw a bunch of fantastic talent or gets kids from a small corner of the city (e.g. Elder).

If you're a "win at all costs" coach, it doesn't make you a better coach because you win more, especially in grade school and freshman and JV sports. HUGE misconception about coaching. In fact, if you're a grade school coaches that loves all of the trophies you won, you're likely part of the problem.

If I was a high school varsity coach, I would absolutely set up freshman and JV as developmental grounds as opposed to winning conference titles. And would hold coaches accountable to making alot of kids better, not winning titles.

 

[JElder]

Kids that go to public schools on the westside (Oak Hills, Taylor, Cincy Public). If they started early, it could turn them to Elder. You disagree?

Oak Hills has their youth league and so does Taylor. Those kids are also able to play for Little Panthers at the younger levels if they want to. I have told you this multiple times, but you still act like they are banned. I know for a fact there are those types of kids in the program as we speak.

 

[OnTheLine85]

Oak Hills has their youth league and so does Taylor. Those kids are also able to play for Little Panthers at the younger levels if they want to. I have told you this multiple times, but you still act like they are banned. I know for a fact there are those types of kids in the program as we speak.

Are they invited?

 

[??????]

It's a difference in philosophy, and it can work. Development over wins. Alot of coaches aren't mature or patient enough to employ this method. But it gets better results in the long run.

If you're a "win at all costs" coach, it doesn't make you a better coach because you win more, especially in grade school, and freshman and JV sports. HUGE misconception about coaching. In fact, if you're a grade school coaches that loves all of the trophies you won, you're likely part of the problem.

If I was a high school varsity coach, I would absolutely set up freshman and JV as developmental grounds as opposed to winning conference titles.

Nobody said win at all cost, just saying you play to win the game.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

It's a difference in philosophy, and it can work. Development over wins. Alot of coaches aren't mature or patient enough to employ this method. But it gets better results in the long run. Especially if you're at a school that doesn't draw a bunch of fantastic talent.

If you're a "win at all costs" coach, it doesn't make you a better coach because you win more, especially in grade school and freshman and JV sports. HUGE misconception about coaching. In fact, if you're a grade school coaches that loves all of the trophies you won, you're likely part of the problem.

If I was a high school varsity coach, I would absolutely set up freshman and JV as developmental grounds as opposed to winning conference titles. And would hold coaches accountable to making alot of kids better, not winning titles.

Stop being so overdramatic. You really think any youth coach especially the volunteers are out there to win trophies? They can teach the sport, develop players, be a role model, and yes win all at the same time. They can even be proud of coaching a team to the playoffs or winning a playoff tournament.

 

[OnTheLine85]

Nobody said win at all cost, just saying you play to win the game.

The B players aren't trying to win?

 

[OnTheLine85]

Stop being so overdramatic. You really think any youth coach especially the volunteers are out there to win trophies?

Wow - you call me over-dramatic and then come out with the most out of touch post of all time.

A resounding YES - there are many, many, many coaches, over several generations that are out to win grade school trophies.

This is hilariously out of touch coming from a westsider, who live and die by this s**t

 

[cincifbfan]

It's a difference in philosophy, and it can work. Development over wins. Alot of coaches aren't mature or patient enough to employ this method. But it gets better results in the long run.

If you're a "win at all costs" coach, it doesn't make you a better coach because you win more, especially in grade school, and freshman and JV sports. HUGE misconception about coaching. In fact, if you're a grade school coaches that loves all of the trophies you won, you're likely part of the problem.

If I was a high school varsity coach, I would absolutely set up freshman and JV as developmental grounds as opposed to winning conference titles.

It does make a huge difference. Look, 5 years ago I convinced my youth organization that my sons play for to try it my way. They were a traditional "power" in the league, but for 10 or so years, really struggled getting kids out and struggled to win games. When we took winning as priority out of the equation and put the focus on coaching, teaching, being patient, and helping players improve our player numbers have increased, and wins quickly followed, especially for the kids that started off with me as 6 year olds. Again, wins are not a priority in any way, but we are seeing more wins and more participants. Our coaches, parents, and kids are seeing results. And they attack every game the same..... even playoffs. There's no need to suddenly lower kids' playing time because it's playoffs or a championship. If your focus is on truly developing, then you trust your kids will be disciplined enough to do what you have coached them to do. The first group that I started this with are now in the 5th grade. They have played in 4 championships, won 2 and lost 2. This year they go the #2 seed for the playoffs and secured a bye for the first round. I can assure you that winning is icing on the cake. The ball is spread around to 6 different backs, pretty evenly and the subs are mixed in throughout the game, even in "clutch" situations. It seems to be working just fine.

When winning takes your priority, your judgement changes. You will spend more time coaching your better kids. You will play your better kids more and more to the point the other kids will eventually quit. How does that help anyone except grown men's egos that they are winning little league games. We should be about a growing a sport that has a bad reputation, especially at the youth level.

 

[JElder]

Why is it out of the question for a kid that goes to, say, Bridgetown middle school, or CO Harrison, to play for the Westside Panther teams? Or even Carson or Covedale? If they're good enough, why not give them a shot?

For one, they are never asked, so you can't answer it. What is the fear of opening it up to those type of kids? The fear is that legacy Johnny gets his spot taken. Cmon, you know that's true.

I understand if at 8th grade, the kids have already committed to another school, then it doesn't make much sense to keep them. But if they're still deciding on a high school in 3rd-7th grade - why not try to find as much talent as you can?

Have you actually read anything I typed concerning the Little Panthers program? Those kids 99% of the time want to play for their own teams (OHYA and Three Rivers). The ones that don't are the same kids that play football for Victory or Jude. How do you know who is asked and who isn't? Do you even know who coaches these programs and what connections they have to westside players?

 

[cincifbfan]

No kidding, great point, I get it in elementary school but WTF winnning only matters for varsity high school games. That’s what Trey claims

Who cares about Jr. High, Freshman, and JV wins?

 

[OnTheLine85]

It does make a huge difference. Look, 5 years ago I convinced my youth organization that my sons play for to try it my way. They were a traditional "power" in the league, but for 10 or so years, really struggled getting kids out and struggled to win games. When we took winning as priority out of the equation and put the focus on coaching, teaching, being patient, and helping players improve our player numbers have increased, and wins quickly followed, especially for the kids that started off with me as 6 year olds. Again, wins are not a priority in any way, but we are seeing more wins and more participants. Our coaches, parents, and kids are seeing results. And they attack every game the same..... even playoffs. There's no need to suddenly lower kids' playing time because it's playoffs or a championship. If your focus is on truly developing, then you trust your kids will be disciplined enough to do what you have coached them to do. The first group that I started this with are now in the 5th grade. They have played in 4 championships, won 2 and lost 2. This year they go the #2 seed for the playoffs and secured a bye for the first round. I can assure you that winning is icing on the cake. The ball is spread around to 6 different backs, pretty evenly and the subs are mixed in throughout the game, even in "clutch" situations. It seems to be working just fine.

When winning takes your priority, your judgement changes. You will spend more time coaching your better kids. You will play your better kids more and more to the point the other kids will eventually quit. How does that help anyone except grown men's egos that they are winning little league games. We should be about a growing a sport that has a bad reputation, especially at the youth level.

So refreshing. This is how it's done. Kudos to you and your staff.

 

[OnTheLine85]

Have you actually read anything I typed concerning the Little Panthers program? Those kids 99% of the time want to play for their own teams (OHYA and Three Rivers). The ones that don't are the same kids that play football for Victory or Jude. How do you know who is asked and who isn't? Do you even know who coaches these programs and what connections they have to westside players?

I know what I see on the rosters. And the rosters in 5th and 6th grade are almost always the Elder freshman rosters. That can't happen organically, that happens with purpose.

 

[JElder]

Are they invited?

Do FB posts and word of mouth count? There are not flyers hanging in the school halls of Covedale announcing Little Panthers tryouts. Wouldn't you agree that might draw the ire of the OH staff and be a jerk move?

 

[Omar]

Do you think the grade school kids/Parents from Taft want to play basketball for Little Panthers when they can play in the Senators program? It would be no different than a kid from Visi not playing for Panthers so he could play for Taft. None of that makes sense and will never happen. Maybe there is a relative or an outlier or two but it's a pipe dream to think what Trey is suggesting is even possible. He knows that though but all he cares about is bashing everything Elder all the time.

Is there a Senators program? I honestly don’t know.

 

[JElder]

I know what I see on the rosters. And the rosters in 5th and 6th grade are almost always the Elder freshman rosters. That doesn't happen organically, that happens with purpose.

No $%#& they are! When you have 30 - 50 kids playing Little Panthers basketball in those grades chances are they are also the kids who will be playing at Elder some day. It's the whole point of the program!

 

[OnTheLine85]

Do FB posts and word of mouth count? There are not flyers hanging in the school halls of Covedale announcing Little Panthers tryouts. Wouldn't you agree that might draw the ire of the OH staff and be a jerk move?

Kids that go to Elder end up on all different types of AAU teams (you know what I mean with the term AAU). Yet, all Westside teams never end up with different types of kids.