Lima Senior to join Toledo City League

 
Maybe I’ve been missing something all these years, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a school district sign a time specific contract when joining a league.
 
The comment about the 5 Toledo Catholic schools and the Detroit Catholic League was way more interesting than the Lima stuff!
 
RollingTrain said:
Maybe I’ve been missing something all these years, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a school district sign a time specific contract when joining a league.
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My guess is it allows the Toledo schools the option after maybe year 3 to evaluate how things are going financially and competitively with the deal and proceed from there long term.

For Lima this is possibly a step down in overall boys basketball competition. Although Q will find more than enough out of conference competition to get them ready come tournament time.

On the other hand it puts the football program in a situation where they can finally compete for league titles in well YEARS.

Sports like baseball and boys soccer will benefit competitively with not having to play SFS, SJJ in those sports.

The biggest winner in all this IMO is Lima Senior's girls programs. Volleyball, Softball, Girls Soccer will find TCAL competition in those sports much more conducive than having to play Notre Dame and St. Ursula every season.
 
eastisbest said:
someone wanted legal recour$e.
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Me thinks also this could result in what happened to Lima Central Catholic and the Northwest Conference years ago. Outsider school joins established league. Begins to dominate said conference. Original members no longer like the deal and give new program the boot. If Lima rips off a few league titles in football and boys basketball in the first 3 years I would expect year 4 of the contract to be a little awkward.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Me thinks also this could result in what happened to Lima Central Catholic and the Northwest Conference years ago. Outsider school joins established league. Begins to dominate said conference. Original members no longer like the deal and give new program the boot. If Lima rips off a few league titles in football and boys basketball in the first 3 years I would expect year 4 of the contract to be a little awkward.
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I'm guessing it' not like that because they already KNOW Lima will take those crowns. Until proven otherwise, I'm sticking with they found a way to line their pockets just a bit more and those of close friends and family. Will any local "journalist" have the gumption to ask them the economics of this move?

This thread discussion has been about Lima's travels. It's not about Lima's travels. Beyond the fact they do not bring customers, it's about the travels and administrating of games of the Toledo schools.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
My guess is it allows the Toledo schools the option after maybe year 3 to evaluate how things are going financially and competitively with the deal and proceed from there long term.

For Lima this is possibly a step down in overall boys basketball competition. Although Q will find more than enough out of conference competition to get them ready come tournament time.

On the other hand it puts the football program in a situation where they can finally compete for league titles in well YEARS.

Sports like baseball and boys soccer will benefit competitively with not having to play SFS, SJJ in those sports.

The biggest winner in all this IMO is Lima Senior's girls programs. Volleyball, Softball, Girls Soccer will find TCAL competition in those sports much more conducive than having to play Notre Dame and St. Ursula every season.
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I have to ask; who has Baseball and Boys Soccer in TCL?
 
This was probably the best realistic move that Lima could make. At worst this gives them a five year window going to the end of the 2026-27 school year to sort out their league situation and to avoid the headaches of being an independent.

The only other options that seem somewhat reasonable IMO are squeezing into the NLL or migrating south to the MVL in a few years. If the situation with the city league doesn't work out beyond this four year window, I see them getting stuck as an independent for a long time.
 
This is a good move. They cut their trips up there in all sports way down. Some of the city league teams won't have Tennis, Soccer, Softball, Baseball. So instead of Lima Senior traveling up there all the time to play all the TRAC Teams they can stay home and schedule games with the Shawnee, Elida's of the world and stay closer to home.

The only reason I would say it is a bad move becuase they are going to just smash everyone in basketball. The City Leauge has been down the last two years. Also financially those teams are never going to travel well down to Lima. Will Lima fans get excited to watch Lima Senior beat Waite 107-44 like they did a couple weeks ago, might be playing in some open gyms.

Football in the Toledo City has been awful for sometime now, I would imagine Lima Senior will win a lot of 66-0 games. They will have 6 games like that a year, so confidence wise that will help, but does it build the program?

JH sports will be interesting too, I am not sure what the City provides for their JH programs.
 
I guess I don't understand the point in this from the LS side. They are going to roll the TCL teams in football and basketball every year.....and very few games are even going to be remotely competitive. I heard their AD last night on TV say it would allow their weaker sports to play more teams closer to home....but they will only have one less league opponent in the TCL than they did in the TRAC. Playing TCL teams twice in basketball is going to do absolutely nothing for their program other than give the bench guys a lot more playing time. I get it....being an independent isn't great....but not sure how this is any better.....except they'll add a bunch of trophies to the trophy case lol
 
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With Lima Senior being on a geographic island as far as D1 schools go, this was our only option. The leagues south, WBL, NLL don't want us. So LSH kids will get to compete for league titles as well as not increasing the travel footprint.
 
City League and TAAC have a "collaborative for some sports.

www.toledoblade.com

City League, TAAC establish 'collaborative scheduling' for 2019-20

The Toledo Area Athletic Conference and City League have established what Rogers athletic director Harold Howell calls a “collaborative scheduling” ...
www.toledoblade.com www.toledoblade.com

City League, TAAC establish 'collaborative scheduling' for 2019-20​

7/15/2019
BY STEVE JUNGA / THE BLADE
The Toledo Area Athletic Conference and City League have established what Rogers athletic director Harold Howell calls a “collaborative scheduling” arrangement beginning with the 2019-20 school year, a union that spans all three athletic seasons and 10 total boys and girls sports.

The new arrangement does not include football, boys basketball or girls basketball, or tennis.

“It came about because the City League and TAAC teams were already playing in several sports anyway,” Howell said, “and I thought, ‘Why not just combine on a bigger scale?’

“We ended up settling with the collaborative scheduling, where we have a crossover, our own league championships, and an overall championship to kind of get that playoff atmosphere since we [in CL] have moved away from our final four.

“The cooperation from the TAAC was awesome. They realized the same thing we did. We’re going to move forward and see how this goes the first year, and then go from there.”

In the fall, City League and TAAC will have a combined cross country meet, which will include separate team and individual boys and girls championships for each league as well as combined winners.

In volleyball, all teams in the two leagues will schedule regular-season matches against each other. After champions are determined in each league, those teams will play a combined championship match.

Further the two corresponding teams that finish in second through sixth place will meet for crossover matches.

The teams from the two leagues will also schedule regular-season games with each other in boys and girls soccer, although there will be no combined championship at stake.

In the winter season, the City League and TAAC will continue their combined wrestling championship meet, which has been held the past few years.

In the spring, all baseball and softball teams from each league will schedule regular-season games against one another. They will have their own champions, and then will have a crossover championship game in both baseball and softball. Like volleyball, the second- through sixth-place teams will play a crossover game.

Also in the spring, the City League and TAAC hold separate league boys and girls track and field meets, and then gather on the final Saturday of the regular season for a combined championship meet. The top four placers in each event from each league meet will qualify for the combined championship meet.

“The biggest things with this are just scheduling and location,” said Toledo Christian athletic director Tim Wensink, who worked with Howell to create the union. “It’s nice to be able to schedule their schools because they are close. It also kind of brings camaraderie between the City and the TAAC that we hope to continue, year in and year out.”
 
Spartan87 said:
With Lima Senior being on a geographic island as far as D1 schools go, this was our only option. The leagues south, WBL, NLL don't want us. So LSH kids will get to compete for league titles as well as not increasing the travel footprint.
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That's not really the question. The question is WHY was it an option for the Toledo schools? They didn't need one so what did they get from this?
 
I would think LCC would be interested in the city league since Lima Senior is in. Rounds the number up to a neat 8.

Just Lima Sr to go to 7 probably puts them into a comfortable bye week scheduling alliance in football with an 11 member NLL, assuming that league gets stuck on an odd number.

Senior will dominate in hoops (somebody in TPS probably convinced themselves that Senior elevates the city league's brand). Six team leagues need a ton of non-league games to fill out schedules, and even if Lima Senior is far, TPS schools are adding two games apiece in a lot of sports against a school that's probably fielding similar quality teams to them.
 
nwwarrior09 said:
Senior will dominate in hoops (somebody in TPS probably convinced themselves that Senior elevates the city league's brand). Six team leagues need a ton of non-league games to fill out schedules, and even if Lima Senior is far, TPS schools are adding two games apiece in a lot of sports against a school that's probably fielding similar quality teams to them.
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of which Senior would have been a reliable option, without mandatory games of joining the conference. ;) So again, what are they bringing to the table more than it costs? And trust me, that's not a knock on Lima. The positives for them given NLL seems not an option are clear. It's me wondering what any local sees falling into their pockets at the cost of the system because there are no positives for the Toledo teams to offset the negatives. It's not even a neutral.

Even with the dominance, if Lima were a burb away, I'd be all for it. But if Lima were only a burb away, guess which conference they would not choose to join?
 
eastisbest said:
of which Senior would have been a reliable option, without mandatory games of joining the conference. ;) So again, what are they bringing to the table more than it costs? And trust me, that's not a knock on Lima. The positives for them given NLL seems not an option are clear. It's me wondering what any local sees falling into their pockets at the cost of the system because there are no positives for the Toledo teams to offset the negatives. It's not even a neutral.

Even with the dominance, if Lima were a burb away, I'd be all for it. But if Lima were only a burb away, guess which conference they would not choose to join?
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I'll consider this to be to an each their own. Particularly in football and basketball, TPS schools make a ton of long trips due to 50%+ of their athletic schedules being non-league...often to get thumped unless playing against Cleveland, Columbus or Dayton city teams. In the non-football sports IMO they'll be getting a home/away deal with Lima as opposed to often making two longer away trips to schools that'll never return the favor unless they're other city schools.

I think this is more good than bad for TPS and that it won't end up costing nearly as much financially as what I think you think it will when you compare it to all of the traveling they already do due to being a league with six members.
 
eastisbest said:
I'm guessing it' not like that because they already KNOW Lima will take those crowns. Until proven otherwise, I'm sticking with they found a way to line their pockets just a bit more and those of close friends and family. Will any local "journalist" have the gumption to ask them the economics of this move?

This thread discussion has been about Lima's travels. It's not about Lima's travels. Beyond the fact they do not bring customers, it's about the travels and administrating of games of the Toledo schools.
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I guess my question is how does the TCAL benefit financially from this move? Can you elaborate on the close friends and family whose pockets are lined or about to be lined? (honest / serious question here because I'm incredibly unaware of what you're driving at)
 
LetsGoBig said:
This is a good move. They cut their trips up there in all sports way down. Some of the city league teams won't have Tennis, Soccer, Softball, Baseball. So instead of Lima Senior traveling up there all the time to play all the TRAC Teams they can stay home and schedule games with the Shawnee, Elida's of the world and stay closer to home.

The only reason I would say it is a bad move becuase they are going to just smash everyone in basketball. The City Leauge has been down the last two years. Also financially those teams are never going to travel well down to Lima. Will Lima fans get excited to watch Lima Senior beat Waite 107-44 like they did a couple weeks ago, might be playing in some open gyms.

Football in the Toledo City has been awful for sometime now, I would imagine Lima Senior will win a lot of 66-0 games. They will have 6 games like that a year, so confidence wise that will help, but does it build the program?

JH sports will be interesting too, I am not sure what the City provides for their JH programs.
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Excellent point. The beauty of the TRAC is it gave the middle school sports in Lima something to shoot for as well. The middle school sports in Lima will now have to rely completely on local competition. Now this is not new as when I was in middle school back in the early 90s we never played GMC middle schools / junior highs in sports. We always just played local competition. So not the first trip down this road for middle school sports in Lima.

Lima will still rely on local big time match ups against OG, Shawnee, Elida and LCC to bring in the crowds. But you're right, home games against city league competition will not entice much of a crowd.
 
eastisbest said:
of which Senior would have been a reliable option, without mandatory games of joining the conference. ;) So again, what are they bringing to the table more than it costs? And trust me, that's not a knock on Lima. The positives for them given NLL seems not an option are clear. It's me wondering what any local sees falling into their pockets at the cost of the system because there are no positives for the Toledo teams to offset the negatives. It's not even a neutral.

Even with the dominance, if Lima were a burb away, I'd be all for it. But if Lima were only a burb away, guess which conference they would not choose to join?
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Yes, Lima benefits from this far more than TPS does. Lima joining the NLL would just be a TRAC reboot for them. Boys Basketball, maybe football being competitive and everyone traveling 2 hours round trip just to play a one hour game and go home worse off than than they were before the game began.

Did they have to join the TCAL? not really. For years I simply advocated for Lima and the TCAL to create a partnership in all sports for the purposes of scheduling for Lima only. Mainly for football b/c to be honest Lima basketball could do really well in an independent schedule.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Lima joining the NLL would just be a TRAC reboot for them.
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"Reboot" You're say that like it would be bad or even a choice? My understanding from this thread, it was neither? Did Lima reject an NLL invite? Make no effort to try and be part of that conference? Senior really, really, really wanted to be part of Toledo City League rather than almost any other league?
 
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scbuckeye99 said:
Excellent point. The beauty of the TRAC is it gave the middle school sports in Lima something to shoot for as well. The middle school sports in Lima will now have to rely completely on local competition. Now this is not new as when I was in middle school back in the early 90s we never played GMC middle schools / junior highs in sports. We always just played local competition. So not the first trip down this road for middle school sports in Lima.

Lima will still rely on local big time match ups against OG, Shawnee, Elida and LCC to bring in the crowds. But you're right, home games against city league competition will not entice much of a crowd.
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That is not exactly the case. I had a son who played freshmen basketball at a GMC school in that time period and they made the trip up to Lima on a Saturday.
Post-game the coach handed out $5 to each player and told them to have a ball as the bus pulled into the parking lot at Kewpee's.
 
Vet Observer said:
That is not exactly the case. I had a son who played freshmen basketball at a GMC school in that time period and they made the trip up to Lima on a Saturday.
Post-game the coach handed out $5 to each player and told them to have a ball as the bus pulled into the parking lot at Kewpee's.
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on what planet is a freshman a middle schooler?
 
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