Miami Valley League 2021-22

[ButlerParent]

Just an opinion and i am sure this will not be liked, but this has to be one of the worst big school leagues in the state. In both boys and girls basketball, the teams win a bunch of games and struggle in the tournament (outside of tipp). I guess maybe it is because they went from GWOC to this.

Bad bad bad opinion. MVL schools have enrollments in 300s and 400s. They are not a big school league, Just that in basketball they are DI mostly. They struggle against schools two and three times there size. Thats why they left GWOC. 365 boys Butler was playing 1000boys Fairmont Beavercreek Centerville and Springfield. Amazes me how bad this post is.

Butler has 365 boys and plays Springboro has 818 boys in the tourney. You think they should be a league with schools like Springboro? Your special. Springboro played Franklin Little Miami Badin Xenia in nonleague games. How that getting them ready for Moeller Elder and the big boys? Fairmont played Troy Fenwick Woodward Fairborn Westland. How that getting them ready for the Cincinnati schools or the big boys in Columbus? GWOC schools love to beat up on the smaller schools dont want to drive south and play the GMC schools for some reason. Are they afraid?

 

[nwwarrior09]

Seriously bad take here. MVL is a bunch of D2 and D3 teams in football. They are half the size of the GWOC schools. They are not a DI league. GWOC would love to play them and beat up on school much smaller. Did that for years.

Basketball they are D1, and schedules for basketball in this league are prepared to pad wins against each other as opposed to trying to prepare to have success in the tournament. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it's a fact. The 2-3 best D1 teams in this league year-to-year are not really any different than Franklin in that there's very legitimate risk to losing in the first round and a very high probability of losing in a sectional semifinal if they get one win or had a bye. Size matters but it can also be a major excuse if you choose to let it be. A lot of these schools played non-league opponents that are 1/2 to 2/3 their size. Piqua played Fairlawn this year. Fairlawn!

Like Franklin, they have zero interest in attempting to compile a schedule to build competency to compete against those bigger GWOC schools on a yearly basis.

 

[ButlerParent]

Basketball they are D1, and schedules for basketball in this league are prepared to pad wins against each other as opposed to trying to prepare to have success in the tournament. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it's a fact. The 2-3 best D1 teams in this league year-to-year are not really any different than Franklin in that there's very legitimate risk to losing in the first round and a very high probability of losing in a sectional semifinal if they get one win or had a bye. Size matters but it can also be a major excuse if you choose to let it be. A lot of these schools played non-league opponents that are 1/2 to 2/3 their size.

Like Franklin, they have zero interest in attempting to compile a schedule to build competency to compete against those bigger GWOC schools on a yearly basis.

You say padding. Think you mean playing schools their size. GWOC pads with their nonleague games. I just showed that.

 

[LetsGoBig]

You say padding. Think you mean playing schools their size. GWOC pads with their nonleague games. I just showed that.

You are right you showed evidence of Springboro playing weaker competition in the non league, but they play in a very difficult conference. I tend to agree with NW on his post, you are in the situation that your in. That isn't going to change when it comes to tournament. So yes, the new league gives you some success during the regular season, but how is it helping anyone in the tournament.

Tipp was very good last year and made a run in the basketball tournament, but playing the Stebbins, Fairborns, Greenvilles of the world aren't helping anyone.

 

[ButlerParent]

You are right you showed evidence of Springboro playing weaker competition in the non league, but they play in a very difficult conference. I tend to agree with NW on his post, you are in the situation that your in. That isn't going to change when it comes to tournament. So yes, the new league gives you some success during the regular season, but how is it helping anyone in the tournament.

Tipp was very good last year and made a run in the basketball tournament, but playing the Stebbins, Fairborns, Greenvilles of the world aren't helping anyone.

You dont even recognize the size differences. Didnt say one word about it. GWOC isn't difficult in basketball. They have Centerville Wayne and thats it. All they do is beat the schools half there size and then when they run up against other big schools they lose. Name one big win for the GWOC last years tourney that wasnt by Centerville. Name just one. Who did the GWOC teams beat in the tourney last year outside Centerville. That league isnt tough in basketball. They just beat up on small schools until time to play GMC or GCL schools and then they go home.

Name one good tournement win by a GWOC school last year not named Centerville.

 

[LetsGoBig]

You dont even recognize the size differences. Didnt say one word about it. GWOC isn't difficult in basketball. They have Centerville Wayne and thats it. All they do is beat the schools half there size and then when they run up against other big schools they lose. Name one big win for the GWOC last years tourney that wasnt by Centerville. Name just one. Who did the GWOC teams beat in the tourney last year outside Centerville. That league isnt tough in basketball. They just beat up on small schools until time to play GMC or GCL schools and then they go home.

Name one good tournement win by a GWOC school last year not named Centerville.

The size thing is a problem to you, but you need to go through them to get what you want. Why wouldn't you play them, why wouldn't you try to compete with them.

Big Wins:
Last Year:
Miamisburg- District Finals
Huber Heights- District Finals
Centerville- State Champs

19-20
Centerville- District champs
Springboro- District Finals
Beavercreek- District Finals

that is 6 teams the last two years that have made the district finals. If you ask me that is pretty good for any league.

 

[Why do you care so much?]

Explain this. Every hoops team plays each team twice. Yet there are two divisions. So, one additional team can claim some type of championship season?

 

[Why do you care so much?]

Sidney wins the Valley in football, and they were arguably the 4th best team in the MVL. Dumb.

 

[ButlerParent]

The size thing is a problem to you, but you need to go through them to get what you want. Why wouldn't you play them, why wouldn't you try to compete with them.

Big Wins:
Last Year:
Miamisburg- District Finals
Huber Heights- District Finals
Centerville- State Champs

19-20
Centerville- District champs
Springboro- District Finals
Beavercreek- District Finals

that is 6 teams the last two years that have made the district finals. If you ask me that is pretty good for any league.

Name one team of significance that a GWOC team not named Centerville beat in the tournament last year. Stop hiding from it.

 

[ButlerParent]

Sidney wins the Valley in football, and they were arguably the 4th best team in the MVL. Dumb.

Amazing how upset some get when a diverse school like Xenia or Sidney wins something.

 

[SidneyJackets]

Nice, been a while since we'd done some "MVL sucks" talk on here, glad we got it going again.

Yeah, the D1 teams aren't GWOC, GMC, GCL level. Rarely are, except for some rare occurrences like Butler baseball.

But you know what? When the MVL teams were in the GWOC, they weren't going any farther in the tournament than they are now. Sidney with Gordon couldn't get by Springfield two straight years and they were playing a tough schedule. Xenia never got out of sectionals with Curtis. What's the last MVL team that has, Fairborn like 10 years ago?

There's no reason for MVL schools to get their brains beat in by schools three times as large in forced crossover games. They did it for years, and it made jack crap difference come tourney or playoff time.

Yeah, Sidney loss to Lebanon sucks for them. But they were up 11 in fourth before choking. Don't know that a stronger schedule for Sidney would have prevented O'Conner kid from hitting 30-foot 3s, Sidney from bad FT shooting in last minute or Cook hitting a 3 at buzzer when he was standing on line (should have been a 2). Would have been nice for Sidney to get to sectional final again, but they weren't getting past Centerville. Congrats to Lebanon, nice team, and yeah, they'd be a 15 win MVL team.

 

[SidneyJackets]

In both boys and girls basketball, the teams win a bunch of games and struggle in the tournament (outside of tipp). I guess maybe it is because they went from GWOC to this.

FYI, Sidney girls are in sectional final and just beat Beavercreek, Troy girls beat Fairmont in 1st round and nearly knocked off Miamisburg and West Carrollton girls beat Wayne to get to sectional final. So I guess girls don't struggle so much.

 

[Yellow_Jacket06]

Nice, been a while since we'd done some "MVL sucks" talk on here, glad we got it going again.

Yeah, the D1 teams aren't GWOC, GMC, GCL level. Rarely are, except for some rare occurrences like Butler baseball.

But you know what? When the MVL teams were in the GWOC, they weren't going any farther in the tournament than they are now. Sidney with Gordon couldn't get by Springfield two straight years and they were playing a tough schedule. Xenia never got out of sectionals with Curtis. What's the last MVL team that has, Fairborn like 10 years ago?

There's no reason for MVL schools to get their brains beat in by schools three times as large in forced crossover games. They did it for years, and it made jack crap difference come tourney or playoff time.

Yeah, Sidney loss to Lebanon sucks for them. But they were up 11 in fourth before choking. Don't know that a stronger schedule for Sidney would have prevented O'Conner kid from hitting 30-foot 3s, Sidney from bad FT shooting in last minute or Cook hitting a 3 at buzzer when he was standing on line (should have been a 2). Would have been nice for Sidney to get to sectional final again, but they weren't getting past Centerville. Congrats to Lebanon, nice team, and yeah, they'd be a 15 win MVL team.

Someone actually speaking sense. Playing tougher schedules has never resulted in better tournament runs for most of these teams in years past. It's an irrelevant talking point. One of the best Sidney teams ever couldn't even get to the Regionals.

 

[Why do you care so much?]

Amazing how upset some get when a diverse school like Xenia or Sidney wins something.

What? "Wins something" - proves my point! Reading skills. What was the something they won?

The Valley Champ had the 3rd best conference record and won a Championship? Participation trophies now in high school. Actually now a kid on the team and he told me that it wasn't any accomplishment.

Why have two divisions if every team plays each other the same amount of times.

Stupid conference. Just have one division and one true Champion.

 

[Why do you care so much?]

Butler girls win the Miami division but we're eliminated in the first round of the tournament by a team that finished second in the other division!

Why? Butler didn't play tough competition and none out of conference

 

[ButlerParent]

What? "Wins something" - proves my point! Reading skills. What was the something they won?

The Valley Champ had the 3rd best conference record and won a Championship? Participation trophies now in high school. Actually now a kid on the team and he told me that it wasn't any accomplishment.

Why have two divisions if every team plays each other the same amount of times.

Stupid conference. Just have one division and one true Champion.

Right got it do NOT let those schools win anything.

 

[ButlerParent]

Butler girls win the Miami division but we're eliminated in the first round of the tournament by a team that finished second in the other division!

Why? Butler didn't play tough competition and none out of conference

Or maybe that other team was good and played a great game. They are 17-5. Butler is 18-4. This wasnt some big upset. You are reaching so hard here.

 

[ButlerParent]

Nice, been a while since we'd done some "MVL sucks" talk on here, glad we got it going again.

Yeah, the D1 teams aren't GWOC, GMC, GCL level. Rarely are, except for some rare occurrences like Butler baseball.

But you know what? When the MVL teams were in the GWOC, they weren't going any farther in the tournament than they are now. Sidney with Gordon couldn't get by Springfield two straight years and they were playing a tough schedule. Xenia never got out of sectionals with Curtis. What's the last MVL team that has, Fairborn like 10 years ago?

There's no reason for MVL schools to get their brains beat in by schools three times as large in forced crossover games. They did it for years, and it made jack crap difference come tourney or playoff time.

Yeah, Sidney loss to Lebanon sucks for them. But they were up 11 in fourth before choking. Don't know that a stronger schedule for Sidney would have prevented O'Conner kid from hitting 30-foot 3s, Sidney from bad FT shooting in last minute or Cook hitting a 3 at buzzer when he was standing on line (should have been a 2). Would have been nice for Sidney to get to sectional final again, but they weren't getting past Centerville. Congrats to Lebanon, nice team, and yeah, they'd be a 15 win MVL team.

Get out of here with all your facts and smart educated statements!!! The GWOC schools need to beat up on teams half their size and you are killing their excuse to get it done. If they cant beat up on MVL schools then they will be forced to go play GMC and OCC schools who are their size and talent and they will lose.

 

[Yellow_Jacket06]

What? "Wins something" - proves my point! Reading skills. What was the something they won?

The Valley Champ had the 3rd best conference record and won a Championship? Participation trophies now in high school. Actually now a kid on the team and he told me that it wasn't any accomplishment.

Why have two divisions if every team plays each other the same amount of times.

Stupid conference. Just have one division and one true Champion.

No thanks. We'll take our conference championship banner. (Never got one in the GWOC). Let people live and mind your own.

 

[Bless Em All]

ButlerParent needs a class in editing. You can edit a post and avoid 3 separate threads. Just sayin.
Oh, and Piqua lost to Graham and Milton this year. MVL is stronger in football and other sports this year. No reason to get your panties in a bunch. Congrats to Sidney on a great season

 

[Why do you care so much?]

No thanks. We'll take our conference championship banner. (Never got one in the GWOC). Let people live and mind your own.

Congrats on being the 4th best team in the conference!

 

[Why do you care so much?]

Right got it do NOT let those schools win anything.

Or maybe that other team was good and played a great game. They are 17-5. Butler is 18-4. This wasnt some big upset. You are reaching so hard here.

Butler was ranked 4th. The other team 9th. Butler won a championship.

So, it was an upset. Or both teams really weren't that good. WC barely beat a very young and bad Wayne team.

Baseball, wrestling and soccer teams play competitive out of conference schedules. Why can't football or basketball?

 

[ButlerParent]

Butler was ranked 4th. The other team 9th. Butler won a championship.

So, it was an upset. Or both teams really weren't that good. WC barely beat a very young and bad Wayne team.

Baseball, wrestling and soccer teams play competitive out of conference schedules. Why can't football or basketball?

We all get it you want them to play the GWOC schools and get beat up on. You think that will help. It means nothing. Thats already was proven.

 

[vamp2syd]

MVL just flat out sucks in basketball this year. If it makes you feel better to put down the GWOC and that helps you sleep at night then fine. Otherwise, worker harder, get stronger and change the MVL format so teams can play more out of league opponents.

Wayne is actually one of the smaller if not smallest GWOC schools (and getting smaller) and they have no problems competing in basketball and football with schools with 300+ more boys.

Franklin is a small school compared to the GWOC and they just knocked off a GWOC team. The GWOC is WAY down this year minus Centerville and Fairmont. I think the results of the GWOC vs MVL games which each of them had leads of 30+ points says more about how bad the MVL was this season than disparity of enrollment.

 

[ButlerParent]

MVL just flat out sucks in basketball this year. If it makes you feel better to put down the GWOC and that helps you sleep at night then fine. Otherwise, worker harder, get stronger and change the MVL format so teams can play more out of league opponents.

Wayne is actually one of the smaller if not smallest GWOC schools (and getting smaller) and they have no problems competing in basketball and football with schools with 300+ more boys.

Franklin is a small school compared to the GWOC and they just knocked off a GWOC team. The GWOC is WAY down this year minus Centerville and Fairmont. I think the results of the GWOC vs MVL games which each of them had leads of 30+ points says more about how bad the MVL was this season than disparity of enrollment.

I think it says that its sad that the GWOC plays schools half their size instead of traveling to Columbus and Cincinnati. Maybe if they played tougher schedules they wouldnt get beat by Franklin. You worry about the GWOC because they need lots of help.

 

[vamp2syd]

I think it says that its sad that the GWOC plays schools half their size instead of traveling to Columbus and Cincinnati. Maybe if they played tougher schedules they wouldnt get beat by Franklin. You worry about the GWOC because they need lots of help.

Can care less about the GWOC, I am a MAC guy who constantly plays teams twice their size and consistently beats them. No complaining about school size here. Some GWOC teams play tough out of league schedules while others such as Northmont play weak schedules. Playing in the GWOC for most years is a battle but this season no so. There is no reason what so ever why Butler could not beat an underclass team like Springboro. Not only did Butler get beat they got crushed. That says all I need to know about what is going on at Butler, a once proud community with strong basketball and football ties.

 

[ButlerParent]

Can care less about the GWOC, I am a MAC guy who constantly plays teams twice their size and consistently beats them. No complaining about school size here. Some GWOC teams play tough out of league schedules while others such as Northmont play weak schedules. Playing in the GWOC for most years is a battle but this season no so. There is no reason what so ever why Butler could not beat an underclass team like Springboro. Not only did Butler get beat they got crushed. That says all I need to know about what is going on at Butler, a once proud community with strong basketball and football ties.

Face it best GWOC teams have stolen players from other schools. Its what they do. Butler is just fine. We could care less what you think.

 

[SidneyJackets]

MVL just flat out sucks in basketball this year. If it makes you feel better to put down the GWOC and that helps you sleep at night then fine. Otherwise, worker harder, get stronger and change the MVL format so teams can play more out of league opponents.

Wayne is actually one of the smaller if not smallest GWOC schools (and getting smaller) and they have no problems competing in basketball and football with schools with 300+ more boys.

Franklin is a small school compared to the GWOC and they just knocked off a GWOC team. The GWOC is WAY down this year minus Centerville and Fairmont. I think the results of the GWOC vs MVL games which each of them had leads of 30+ points says more about how bad the MVL was this season than disparity of enrollment.

You've done nothing in those couple of posts but provide apple and oranges comparisons. Wayne has 691 boys, Butler 356. But Butler should still be in GWOC? And a MAC school like Coldwater with a 171 enrollment playing somebody like a WBL school like St. Mary's with a 257 enrollment is proof of this? Okay. https://www.ohsaa.org/school-resources/school-enrollment

Again, did playing tougher schedules while members of the GWOC help Sidney with Gordon, Xenia with Curtis or Fairborn with Monroe ever get out of sectionals?

And yeah, Franklin has had so much more tournament success than MVL teams since moving up to D1...

2021: 1 win (against MVL Stebbins), 2nd round loss.
2020: 1st round loss (to MVL Stebbins).
2019: 1st round loss.
2018: 1st round loss.

And they had at least 17 wins 3 out of those 4 years, and 14 wins the other year. So their win against Northmont was their first tournament win against a GWOC school in 5 years playing in D1 tourney.

Franklin and Tecumseh are actually good comparisons, MVL-size schools going up against GWOC teams. They don't fare much better year-in and year-out, either. Until this year, Tecumseh hadn't won a tournament game since 2015 (I was there, their last win was against Sidney the year before Gordon arrived, and Sidney killed them in 1st round round next year). And Tecumseh plays GWOC and MVL schools all the time. Why don't they win more tourney games with that strong schedule?

 

[vamp2syd]

You've done nothing in those couple of posts but provide apple and oranges comparisons. Wayne has 691 boys, Butler 356. But Butler should still be in GWOC? And a MAC school like Coldwater with a 171 enrollment playing somebody like a WBL school like St. Mary's with a 257 enrollment is proof of this? Okay. https://www.ohsaa.org/school-resources/school-enrollment

Again, did playing tougher schedules while members of the GWOC help Sidney with Gordon, Xenia with Curtis or Fairborn with Monroe ever get out of sectionals?

And yeah, Franklin has had so much more tournament success than MVL teams since moving up to D1...

2021: 1 win (against MVL Stebbins), 2nd round loss.
2020: 1st round loss (to MVL Stebbins).
2019: 1st round loss.
2018: 1st round loss.

And they had at least 17 wins 3 out of those 4 years, and 14 wins the other year. So their win against Northmont was their first tournament win against a GWOC school in 5 years playing in D1 tourney.

Franklin and Tecumseh are actually good comparisons, MVL-size schools going up against GWOC teams. They don't fare much better year-in and year-out, either. Until this year, Tecumseh hadn't won a tournament game since 2015 (I was there, their last win was against Sidney the year before Gordon arrived, and Sidney killed them in 1st round round next year). And Tecumseh plays GWOC and MVL schools all the time. Why don't they win more tourney games with that strong schedule?

Butler is closer to Wayne in enrollment than Wayne is with Centerville. Never said that Butler should be in the GWOC.
Many MAC schools far smaller than Coldwater play schools much bigger than them in both basketball and football and fair well. You already knew this.

I'm sure it helped those programs by playing tougher games than if they did not. I do not remember who Sidney lost to that year, was it Centerville? I'm sure Sidney did beat a GWOC school in the tourney that season.

Look, we can't have 12 different divisions it is what it is. Enrollment numbers are not everything. Great coaching, hard work and participation is the goal to a successful program. The GMVC schools used to do that back in the day... so why can they not continue to succeed as MVL schools?

 

[petroglyph]

Agre

Butler is closer to Wayne in enrollment than Wayne is with Centerville. Never said that Butler should be in the GWOC.
Many MAC schools far smaller than Coldwater play schools much bigger than them in both basketball and football and fair well. You already knew this.

I'm sure it helped those programs by playing tougher games than if they did not. I do not remember who Sidney lost to that year, was it Centerville? I'm sure Sidney did beat a GWOC school in the tourney that season.

Look, we can't have 12 different divisions it is what it is. Enrollment numbers are not everything. Great coaching, hard work and participation is the goal to a successful program. The GMVC schools used to do that back in the day... so why can they not continue to succeed as MVL schools?

Agree 100% about the validity of numbers as a firm criteria. There are 2 regional leagues beside the MAC that are year in year out competitive that would give MVL teams fits in major sports: WBL. & GCL Coed for starts. You can quibble about each but the numbers are < = to MVL schools. Between the lines rules are the same.