Solution to the Mid-State League Problems

LCL

Well-known member
I like hypothetical conference ideas, so here is how I would resolve the MSL's woes due to Teays leaving the Small School, Big School, travel distance, and competition problems...

Break up the MSL into two Conferences and create Divisions out of the Conferences.

MSL-CARDINAL CONFERENCE
East Division
Bishop Rosecrans (7:27)
Miller (7:27)
Berne Union (7:27)
Fisher Catholic (7:27)
Fairfield Christian (7:27)

West Division
KIPP? (6:23)
Grandview Heights (6:23)
Grove City Christian (7:27)
Worthington Christian (6:23)
Millersport (7:27)

MSL-OHIO CONFERENCE
North Division
Buckeye Valley (3:11)
Hamilton Township (3:11)
Bloom Carroll (4:15)
Whitehall (2:7)
Bexley (4:15)
Columbus Academy (5:19)
Bishop Ready (5:19)

South Division
Circleville (4:15)
Logan Elm (4:15)
Harvest Prep (5:19)
Fairfield Union (4:15)
Amanda C-C (5:19)
Liberty Union (5:19)

Pros: School size is relative in divisions, the North being a stretch, Travel is similar to current conferences, Championships are rewarded in each division
Cons: Teams in the "North" complaining about playing Carroll and HT, Teams in the "South" complaining about having to play Harvest Prep, Mandatory crossover(s), scheduling difficulties if a team chooses not to play their crossover (currently a problem in the LCL)

Things I would look forward to: A Harvest-Amanda rivalry start, how KIPP would do if they entered the Conference, HT and BC traveling outside of Fairfield County, basketball and baseball schedules.

Thoughts???
 
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The Cardinal East looks great, the West though would be a huge stretch to sell GCC and Millersport. I can tell you GCC would vote this down in a heartbeat, would not be shocked if Millersport did as well. Worthington Christian needs to be in the Ohio.
 
The problem is just unfixable within the current MSL framework.

You CANNOT...

  • have a process where an entire division votes "yes" on a realignment that does not affect them, when the division who is directly affected by the alignment unanimously votes "NO";
  • let schools who will no longer be in the league by the time the implemented change comes have a vote (Teays Valley);
  • repeatedly add a bunch of schools into the league that further complicate the divisional dynamics of geography, chemistry and intra-divisional competitions across all sports.
I have spoken with x numbers of AD's across y MSL divisions in the last 24 hours. There is no confidence, institutionally and personally, in the MSL's ability to maintain three divisions beyond 2023-24. There are multiple intimations that the Mid-State League will not exist 5-10 years from now. Additionally, these administrators (representing a diverse collection of schools within the MSL purview) are all anticipating the same thing: league raids, disbands/reforms and schools being cut out.

I said this earlier on the other thread, and unfortunately their prescience is rivaled by the utter madness of the situation at-hand: the entire league is riddled with too many issues and the constitutional flaws of the league left the door open for the batsh*t insane happenings of yesterday's meeting.
 
The problem is just unfixable within the current MSL framework.

You CANNOT...

  • have a process where an entire division votes "yes" on a realignment that does not affect them, when the division who is directly affected by the alignment unanimously votes "NO";
  • let schools who will no longer be in the league by the time the implemented change comes have a vote (Teays Valley);
  • repeatedly add a bunch of schools into the league that further complicate the divisional dynamics of geography, chemistry and intra-divisional competitions across all sports.
I have spoken with x numbers of AD's across y MSL divisions in the last 24 hours. There is no confidence, institutionally and personally, in the MSL's ability to maintain three divisions beyond 2023-24. There are multiple intimations that the Mid-State League will not exist 5-10 years from now. Additionally, these administrators (representing a diverse collection of schools within the MSL purview) are all anticipating the same thing: league raids, disbands/reforms and schools being cut out.

I said this earlier on the other thread, and unfortunately their prescience is rivaled by the utter madness of the situation at-hand: the entire league is riddled with too many issues and the constitutional flaws of the league left the door open for the batsh*t insane happenings of yesterday's meeting.
5-10 years? Might not last 5-10 months. In fact it almost can't if anyone has any brains.
 
The problem is just unfixable within the current MSL framework.

You CANNOT...

  • have a process where an entire division votes "yes" on a realignment that does not affect them, when the division who is directly affected by the alignment unanimously votes "NO";
  • let schools who will no longer be in the league by the time the implemented change comes have a vote (Teays Valley);
  • repeatedly add a bunch of schools into the league that further complicate the divisional dynamics of geography, chemistry and intra-divisional competitions across all sports.
I have spoken with x numbers of AD's across y MSL divisions in the last 24 hours. There is no confidence, institutionally and personally, in the MSL's ability to maintain three divisions beyond 2023-24. There are multiple intimations that the Mid-State League will not exist 5-10 years from now. Additionally, these administrators (representing a diverse collection of schools within the MSL purview) are all anticipating the same thing: league raids, disbands/reforms and schools being cut out.

I said this earlier on the other thread, and unfortunately their prescience is rivaled by the utter madness of the situation at-hand: the entire league is riddled with too many issues and the constitutional flaws of the league left the door open for the batsh*t insane happenings of yesterday's meeting.
Dock, you're the League czar for today, How would you propose the league solve its problems. I do not think replacing Teays with KIPP would be a problem, as it adds a smaller school and removes a bigger school. As far as realignment goes, you are essentially creating a "small school" conference and a "big school" conference with divisions within them.
 
I wasn’t a big fan of West Jefferson leaving the MSL for the Ohio Heritage Conference 5 or 6 years ago but its worked out well for WJ and looks like an even greater decision now because of the mess that is the MSL. I don’t think there is any chance WJ would go back to the MSL. I could see the following working from a football standpoint:

KIPP (6:23)
Grandview Heights (6:23)
Worthington Christian (6:23)
Bexley (4:15)
Columbus Academy (5:19)
Bishop Ready (5:19)
Harvest Prep (5:19)

Just need one more team to make it a 8 team league. This 8th school would need to be:
* inside the 270 loop or close to 71 or 70
* A small Division IV or smaller school - Div V or VI preferred

This would be a really good basketball league, especially if you could persuade Ready to join full time.
 
Dock, you're the League czar for today, How would you propose the league solve its problems. I do not think replacing Teays with KIPP would be a problem, as it adds a smaller school and removes a bigger school. As far as realignment goes, you are essentially creating a "small school" conference and a "big school" conference with divisions within them.
If I was the czar? OK. It would either be "I'm disbanding all of the divisions and its up to the schools to form it themselves" or "my way or the highway." Let's play with the latter, for discussion purposes.

This will be done in two or three posts, numbered as such. The Dock's way of doing things is a flow-chart and follows a stagger cause-and-effect.

I'll do the Ohio, first. #1 -- this would be an immediate executive decision.

@WJ-OSU-STEELERS beat me to the punch somewhat, but I'm still going to give it a go.

I would automatically deduct KIPP from the equation for the time being, and come back to them later.

I would tell Ready "you're either in for all, or you're out for football." Pick a team, Ready: Team CCL or Team MSL. We want you for all. But we're not yolking football around you. Don't join for all sports? In the words of Yankees broadcaster Michael Kay, "see ya."

I would tell the Ohio schools that if you don't get Ready to fully commit, you're taking Harvest Prep on for all sports (including football) or the division is getting eliminated.

Ohio (with Ready)
Bexley
Bishop Ready
Buckeye Valley
Cols. Academy
Columbus School for Girls
Grandview Heights
Wellington
Whitehall-Yearling
Worthington Christian

Ohio (without Ready)
Bexley
Buckeye Valley
Cols. Academy
Columbus School for Girls
Grandview Heights
Harvest Prep
Wellington
Whitehall-Yearling
Worthington Christian

*If 9x2 is too much of a burden for girls' sports scheduling, then reform without CSG or walk.

Back in ~30. Don't touch that dial!
 
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If I was the czar... (this one is a little less concrete, because there are -- from what I have heard -- curious circumstances involving anywhere between 1-7 of the remaining 15 schools.)

#2 The Cardinal/Buckeye (time evolving situation)

Two orders of business...

1) if schools in these two leagues are courted by other conferences, they have a year to decide if they will leave the MSL or stay. It's fine if they leave. But after December 10th, 2022, and before January 1, 2026, a hefty financial penalty (written in writing) is levied.

2) Millersport does not get a say in their league situation. Either take a possible offer/sustainment of the Cardinal, or go independent. Not yolking a division around them.

Identify the flagships. Buckeye (AC, BC, FU, LE); Cardinal (BU and FC.) Liberty Union, for all intents and purposes, is a flagship that represents both divisions.


If NONE of the schools leave: keep the two divisions as they are -- if either division wants an expansion they (and only they) vote on a possible new entrant.

If Miller and/or Rosecrans leave: keep the two divisions as they are.

If Miller and/or Rosecrans leave, and HP is absorbed into the Ohio: majority vote by the Cardinal (3/5) to either sustain the division or disband, with the provision that the remaining five schools are at the liberty to leave on their own without a financial penalty.

If BU and/or FC leave: keep the two divisions as they are.
 
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The fundamentally difficult position the Buckeye and Cardinal Divisions, individually and collectively, are in is there are four different leagues that conceivably will make a play for some of those 15 schools and there are two other leagues (MVL, OCC) in addition that could take a stab at select schools when their alignments are expiring.
 
I wasn’t a big fan of West Jefferson leaving the MSL for the Ohio Heritage Conference 5 or 6 years ago but its worked out well for WJ and looks like an even greater decision now because of the mess that is the MSL. I don’t think there is any chance WJ would go back to the MSL.
I bet, since West Jeff essentially dominated every year in the league. The MSL probably would not let them in because of that reason alone, and because traveling from Berne Union to West Jeff back in the day was a hike!
 
I don't know what conferences would want to take the remaining teams in the MSL. I could see HT going to the OCC eventually, maybe even Whitehall and Bloom Carroll. I don't think Rosecrans would be interested in going to the MVL at all. You could probably kick out Ready back to the CCL if/when the league disbands. Would be interesting if Columbus Academy could be lured to the CCL. But, for sake of a random hypothetical, say Ready is forced out, Hamiliton Township, Whitehall and Bloom Carroll are absorbed by the OCC and the MSL invites KIPP into the league...lots of ideas going on but hey, the league is already in bad shape.

MSL Ohio
Division #1 (insert name)
Worthington Christian (6:23)
KIPP (6:23)
Grandview Heights (6:23)
Bexley (4:15)
Buckeye Valley (3:11)- oddball because of size and travel
Columbus Academy (5:19)

Division #2 (insert name)
Millersport (7:27)
Miller (7:27)
Rosecrans (7:27)
Fisher Catholic (7:27)
Fairfield Christian (7:27)
Grove City Christian (7:27)

MSL Conference (Buckeye???)
Circleville (4:15)
Logan Elm (4:15)
Fairfield Union (4:15)
Harvest Prep (5:19)
Liberty Union (5:19)
Amanda CC (5:19)
Berne Union (7:27)- would take a lot of convincing for them to play up because of their success, but they used to play Prep & Liberty. Logan Elm, Circleville, and Fairfield Union are mediocre to terrible, Amanda might run over them. But, look at it as the next step in their school's sports programs.

Everyone has a 6-team league schedule, travel isn't that far. Could have a mandatory crossover in the MSL Ohio to give everyone a 7-team schedule, with 3 non-league opponents. Really shouldn't be too much complaining about competition level and school size, unless you are Berne, but Berne has proved itself to be a successful program. Throw them in there to play up and experiment with them, just like they did with Liberty when the Cardinal first broke up. BV is also an oddball because of their size and travel.

All dependent on if the OCC goes and poaches teams from the league, like in year's past. Throw Whitehall, Bloom Carroll, Hamilton Township, Teays Valley, Logan and Newark together and you got yourself a new division in the OCC.
 
Buckeye Valley looked really dumb for making this move at the time…they look completely insane now. I wonder if BV and Pleasant talk to the CBC again?
 
The 9-school Cardinal, despite the fact it is planned, isn’t going to see the light of day.

Impending issues/fallout that stems it…
  • Miller (possible return to TVC-Hocking) isn’t going to get through the expense (time and $$$) of making trips to Wellington.

  • Rosecrans, materially, doesn’t have to directly endure the $$$ expense of Wellington since they don’t use a bus. However, the flip side to that is the parents have to burn more $$$ in transportation. Mutual symbiosis of being a small Catholic school: the school doesn’t directly pay for the transportation, but its stakeholders do. Could go east (likely not MVL, but maybe I-77 corridor leagues) or could be a key player in #CardExit.

  • Schedule liberty is important to BU and FC. Especially in baseball. 16 conference games is a cross to bear in April if the competition isn’t strong across the board. Adding a program that infamously lost a diamond game 37-3 this past Spring just contributes to malaise for the flagships.
 
“Harvest Prep + the current Buckeye schools” isn’t going to work. The Buckeye schools have played HPS — boys soccer(?) notwithstanding — a grand total of zero times across the sports in the regular season since the ‘13-14 realignment of the MSL. Except for Liberty Union, which was a life-raft situation with MSL-Ohio football. The Buckeye schools want nothing to do with Prep.
 
#CardExit possibility: if the core is
FCA
Miller
Rosecrans
BU

The main obstacle is four teams is a starting point, but adding additional teams is going to be a “Sophie’s choice:” FC or Millersport. FC would likely want GCC and HP, but possibly not Port… unless relations between the two schools substantially improve. MP wouldn’t want HP.
 
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What a fine kettle of fish! Probably there will be a boiling point where multiple new leagues will be established leaving some schools to find a new home or go independent.
 
Bloom Carroll to the OCC? Come on now.
Wasn’t my idea, but… in the short-term, it doesn’t make sense.

By 2032, maybe it could? Growth in Lithopolis, Canal Winchester extremities on the west end of BC district; development in the outlying Carroll area, Greenfield Twp.

HT is who makes more sense for the OCC by 2028. Enrollment is there and the growth trajectory puts them within 75% of Canal’s enrollment when they joined the OCC by then. The difference is Canal wasn’t put into a small-end division to begin with, like they are now. HT is a hand-in-glove fit for an OCC “small” or something with the Southwestern City Schools.

Main trepidation about BC to OCC (whenever) is they wouldn’t get the “Big Walnut treatment.”
 
Buckeye Valley looked really dumb for making this move at the time…they look completely insane now. I wonder if BV and Pleasant talk to the CBC again?
no chance BV and MP move to the CBC.. the CBC must’ve been really desperate to ever consider those 2. now, if a new league forms at some point north of urbana and west of sidney, that’s a possibility
 
I don't necessarily think BV and Pleasant would be bad fits in the CBC, but why would they ever consider 7 team divisions? 6 is clean 8 would work. 7 is messy, especially when the split is size based and not geographical.
 
Ok...its a big stretch that BC joins now, I agree...So let's take a look at the current divisions.

MSL-OHIO
Whitehall (2:7)
Buckeye Valley (3:11)
Bexley (4:15)
Columbus Academy (5:19)
Bishop Ready (5:19)
Grandview Heights (6:23)
Worthington Christian (6:23)
Harvest Prep (football) (5:19)

MSL-OHIO
Bloom Carroll (4:15)
Hamilton Township (3:11)
Circleville (4:15)
Fairfield Union (4:15)
Logan Elm (4:15)
Amanda C-C (5:19)
Liberty Union (5:19)

MSL-CARDINAL
Fisher Catholic (7:27)
Miller (7:27)
Millersport (7:27)
Rosecrans (7:27)
Grove City Christian (7:27)
Fairfield Christian (7:27)
Berne Union (7:27)
CSG
The Wellington

Is it plausible that Harvest Prep joins the Buckeye? They are similar geographically and school size.

So now the Buckeye breaks away and creates it own conference with Bloom Carroll, Hamilton Twp, Fairfield Union, Logan Elm, Amanda, Liberty Union, and Harvest. Now the Cardinal is left with 7-9 teams depending on the sport, and the Ohio is left with 5-6 teams depending on the sport. Add in a team like KIPP, now your league is a 7-8 team league.

So now the MSL looks like this
Miller
Millersport
Rosecrans
Fisher Catholic
Fairfield Christian
Grove City Christian
Berne Union
CSG*
Wellington*

OHIO
Grandview
Whitehall
Bexley
Columbus Academy
Buckeye Valley
KIPP
Worthington Christian
Ready*

Two divisions of roughly 7 teams. Maybe could make an argument for this? I think that Harvest is the team that seems to be creating issues by floating between divisions, so totally deleting them and the Buckeye might make sense. Ready also causes scheduling problems, but if you can bring in a commited member of the Ohio you could ease the burden on the Ohio somewhat.
Travel is the biggest problem the MSL has always faced.
When West Jeff was in they had to travel all the way to Sugar Grive for games, so travel would just have to be a pill to swallow.
 
My answer to the Mid State League situation is to bring the Central Catholic League into the Mid State League. With that happening the Buckeye can stay the Buckeye and the Cardinal can stay the Cardinal minus Harvest Prep. The effect would be on the Ohio- have 2 Divisions form- Watterson, DeSales, St Charles, Hartley Whitehall, Bexley and Buckeye Valley- the other being Columbus Academy, Worthington Christian, Columbus Ready, Grandview Hts, Harvest Prep (In all sports) and Wellington. The Cardinal would be Grove City Christian, Millerport, Miller, Berne Union, Lancaster Fisher, Zanesville Rosecrans, Fairfield Christian.
If Mid State was to accept KIPP then it could be placed in either of the 2 new Divisions based on enrollment.
Yes I know this would be a hard sell for the CCL-
One of Buckeye Valleys reason for joining the Mid State was getting exposure to there athletes. Playing the the likes of Watterson, DeSales would get them the exposure they wanted.
 
My answer to the Mid State League situation is to bring the Central Catholic League into the Mid State League. With that happening the Buckeye can stay the Buckeye and the Cardinal can stay the Cardinal minus Harvest Prep. The effect would be on the Ohio- have 2 Divisions form- Watterson, DeSales, St Charles, Hartley Whitehall, Bexley and Buckeye Valley- the other being Columbus Academy, Worthington Christian, Columbus Ready, Grandview Hts, Harvest Prep (In all sports) and Wellington. The Cardinal would be Grove City Christian, Millerport, Miller, Berne Union, Lancaster Fisher, Zanesville Rosecrans, Fairfield Christian.
If Mid State was to accept KIPP then it could be placed in either of the 2 new Divisions based on enrollment.
Yes I know this would be a hard sell for the CCL-
One of Buckeye Valleys reason for joining the Mid State was getting exposure to there athletes. Playing the the likes of Watterson, DeSales would get them the exposure they wanted.
Not a chance…and it would get BV some exposure alright, just not the type they want. BV couldn’t handle the CCL JV teams in football.
 
I don't know all( or any) of the ins and outs of MSL politics - but here is a division


Grandview Heights (6:23)
Grove City Christian (7:27)
Worthington Christian (6:23)
Bexley (4:15)
Columbus Academy (5:19)
Bishop Ready (5:19)
Mechanicsburg
Fairbanks
West Jefferson
???
 
This league is a dumpster fire with many mismatching parts. There does probably need to be a strong central administrator if they're going to have any real chance of keeping the majority of it together beyond the next 5-10 years.
 
The unfortunate thing is that there is not good answer as is. Everybody has an idea on what could be good but powers to be in the Mid State League continue to mix and match a broken puzzle. The new 5-3 football divisions really makes no since. You can not run a league on what the Buckeye Division will or will not do- yes the Buckeye Division is basically made up of founding members but at some point they agreed to expand and so therefore changing up the Buckeye Division is inevitable if the Mid State is going to survive.

What should happen is realignment based on enrollment. But the Buckeye Division does not want that- that is the whole problem.
 
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