Kill the District Meet.

psycho_dad said:
A few items that came up at our District. Things that I think should be standardized and not left up to the games committee.

No heat sheets until we arrived at the facility. (We did get some emailed by request an hour or so before the busses pulled out. I cannot read on a moving buss, so it was essentially when we arrived.) Should be a standardized thing.

Girls HJ and PV were contested at the exact same time. We have a girl that does both. They have both boys and girls PV on the same day, by the way. Cannot walk on the precious turf field to get from one to the other on opposite ends of the stadium. Our girl might have gotten one approach at the HJ and 3 warm ups at the Vault. We were told that she would have 10 min from the time she checked out of the HJ to come back. Told that in the harshest of tone. Not a "we will help you make this work" tone. Have to walk out an around the boys open pit long jump onto the track to get back and forth. A girl that should have qualified out to the Regional in Both, was so off, she had season worst performances. NH in the HJ. Worst PV of the season by a foot or more. No consideration for the athlete. She should have handled it better and didn't and that's on us, but it should have never been contested at the same time with restrictions that were almost impossible to adhere to.

If your turf is so special it can't be used, don't host a District. Oh, and you can't walk all the way around the track. All traffic goes around one end of the stadium.

Our kids were kicked out of every place on or off the track to warm up. Kids could practice relay exchanges all they wanted to, but try and do a proper warm up on the back stretch and your are kicked out. Don't even look at the turf. Also seemed like kids that came from further away were not allowed to be places where more local kids were allowed to be. Familiarity with the officials came with privilages.

Do you qualify 12 or 8 to the finals from each heat? Might want to know that before the race. Printed in different places and different numbers of qualifiers. That should be a uniform statewide thing. Either run or don't run qualifiers in the 1600. Have a hard set number and stick to it. Boys up on the line again in the 1600. Pulled at the last second and told there will just be a final Saturday. Numbers didn't drop below 24, so there will be 26-28 kids on the track Saturday. Meanwhile, some of those kids warmed up for nothing and could have been used other places in relays. It was a little warm yesterday.

Be responsible and get your team to the meet and to the line. At least 2 schools that did not bring enough kids to count as a team. Was told one team had kids quit this week and another schools has prom Saturday. 9 kids! Bring 9 not 8. Can't get the 4th division with 8.

We spend all season teaching the kids how to manage themselves at a meet. Warm up, check in. Be where you are supposed to be. Do things correctly. When it's hot, stay out of the sun as much as possible. Then, we have all that blown up by the meet officials and meet management. Kids that are doing what we have told them to do are being unnecessarily berated by officials. Can't check in on 2nd call, but are told they will be DQ's if not checked in 10 seconds after 3rd call 20 min before their race. Not allowed to cross the turf to get back and forth from events, but can sit out on it for 20 min before the 300 hurdles when it's 88 degrees.

Was told in the Coaches meeting that they had block holders. Was not told that the block holders were the kids in the next heat.

I'm grateful that we have track and field and that we are as normal as we are. Hate to be a complainer, but we all know how a track meet should be run. No excuse not to have this down if you are hosting a District. No excuse that some of this stuff is not standardized. I think 3 kids per lane is too many for the 1600 in a championship meet like this and if you are going to make the kids warm up and get ready for it, run the race and cut it down to 16. Then, in the boys 800, there were only 29 guys. 3 heats with top 5 from each heat and next fastest. Run 2 heats top 8. A lot might be because coaches don't bother to scratch, but kids are expected to figure out top 12, no top 8, wait top 5. More work than it needed to be.
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psycho_dad, thanks for making me appreciate what we have. All of the meets for the central run under the same rules. (3 districts for D1, 1 girls and 2 boys for D2 and 1 boys and 2 girls for D3). All of the information was posted on the district athletic board site, but the day before the first day of the meets we got an email reiterating all of the information. We got an explanation of maximum numbers required to not hold prelim and go directly to finals (20 in the 800, 24 in the 1600, 32 in the 3200) so that everyone is operating under the same rules. We got the starting heights and increments for the HJ and PV. The email also had the links to get the heat sheets after the scratch window closed (noon the first day of competition that your district starts competition) and the sheets were up ~30 minutes after the scratch deadline. It really should be standardized like this.
 
The legal limit is 24 in 1600/3200 on an 8 lane track. 32 for the 3200 on an 8 lane track.

I would request 2 heats in the 800 and 1600 to be on Friday. Anything else is not appropriate for the runners.

We have had 3200 prelims in the past because I complained that 38 guys were in our district 3200. It was not pretty and most of the 9:30 guys ran a 11:00. But it made for a fair race on the finals.

I personally do not care in the regular season how many kids run in a race. But in championship races, I prefer the field size to be limited:
800- 16
1600- 24
3200- 32
 
You have to love Youngstown Region officials, they own the place!
They eventually had a women sitting in the middle of the field in 88 degree heat, watching the precious field, too bad for her luck of the draw!!
And heat sheet we received did not have any of the competitors for Sat events listed.
 
psycho_dad said:
A few items that came up at our District. Things that I think should be standardized and not left up to the games committee.

No heat sheets until we arrived at the facility. (We did get some emailed by request an hour or so before the busses pulled out. I cannot read on a moving buss, so it was essentially when we arrived.) Should be a standardized thing.

Girls HJ and PV were contested at the exact same time. We have a girl that does both. They have both boys and girls PV on the same day, by the way. Cannot walk on the precious turf field to get from one to the other on opposite ends of the stadium. Our girl might have gotten one approach at the HJ and 3 warm ups at the Vault. We were told that she would have 10 min from the time she checked out of the HJ to come back. Told that in the harshest of tone. Not a "we will help you make this work" tone. Have to walk out an around the boys open pit long jump onto the track to get back and forth. A girl that should have qualified out to the Regional in Both, was so off, she had season worst performances. NH in the HJ. Worst PV of the season by a foot or more. No consideration for the athlete. She should have handled it better and didn't and that's on us, but it should have never been contested at the same time with restrictions that were almost impossible to adhere to.

If your turf is so special it can't be used, don't host a District. Oh, and you can't walk all the way around the track. All traffic goes around one end of the stadium.

Our kids were kicked out of every place on or off the track to warm up. Kids could practice relay exchanges all they wanted to, but try and do a proper warm up on the back stretch and your are kicked out. Don't even look at the turf. Also seemed like kids that came from further away were not allowed to be places where more local kids were allowed to be. Familiarity with the officials came with privilages.

Do you qualify 12 or 8 to the finals from each heat? Might want to know that before the race. Printed in different places and different numbers of qualifiers. That should be a uniform statewide thing. Either run or don't run qualifiers in the 1600. Have a hard set number and stick to it. Boys up on the line again in the 1600. Pulled at the last second and told there will just be a final Saturday. Numbers didn't drop below 24, so there will be 26-28 kids on the track Saturday. Meanwhile, some of those kids warmed up for nothing and could have been used other places in relays. It was a little warm yesterday.

Be responsible and get your team to the meet and to the line. At least 2 schools that did not bring enough kids to count as a team. Was told one team had kids quit this week and another schools has prom Saturday. 9 kids! Bring 9 not 8. Can't get the 4th division with 8.

We spend all season teaching the kids how to manage themselves at a meet. Warm up, check in. Be where you are supposed to be. Do things correctly. When it's hot, stay out of the sun as much as possible. Then, we have all that blown up by the meet officials and meet management. Kids that are doing what we have told them to do are being unnecessarily berated by officials. Can't check in on 2nd call, but are told they will be DQ's if not checked in 10 seconds after 3rd call 20 min before their race. Not allowed to cross the turf to get back and forth from events, but can sit out on it for 20 min before the 300 hurdles when it's 88 degrees.

Was told in the Coaches meeting that they had block holders. Was not told that the block holders were the kids in the next heat.

I'm grateful that we have track and field and that we are as normal as we are. Hate to be a complainer, but we all know how a track meet should be run. No excuse not to have this down if you are hosting a District. No excuse that some of this stuff is not standardized. I think 3 kids per lane is too many for the 1600 in a championship meet like this and if you are going to make the kids warm up and get ready for it, run the race and cut it down to 16. Then, in the boys 800, there were only 29 guys. 3 heats with top 5 from each heat and next fastest. Run 2 heats top 8. A lot might be because coaches don't bother to scratch, but kids are expected to figure out top 12, no top 8, wait top 5. More work than it needed to be.
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There's not much that irks me more than track officials and meet directors who are overprotective of turf during meets. Especially at regular season meets.
 
psycho_dad said:
Was it a tournament baseball game? We require the kids choose a primary sport so any conflicts are already decided. We look at it like track events vs field events. Track always is the priority.
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Yes it was a tournament game that had to be made up. Baseball is his primary sport. Track when we can. We made 5 meets, but the rain got us for Districts. Luckily he's an alternate for the relay teams so he'll get to compete in the 4x200 and 4x400 as they made it to Saturday.
 
ghsknightsfan said:
if you want to protect your precious turf, don’t host meets!

areas of turf should be used to warm up on. it’s a great surface.

no one likes control freaks at a track meet. be flexible. it’s high school sports.
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Officials at the District meet can be the worst. Some of these kids are only 15. The vast majority this year have never competed at a District meet before. I don’t understand the grumpiness and meanness.
 
claynation said:
There's not much that irks me more than track officials and meet directors who are overprotective of turf during meets. Especially at regular season meets.
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Our grass is toxic, so when we ask people to stay off the field, it's so their kids will have the correct number of fingers and toes.
 
gatornation said:
You have to love Youngstown Region officials, they own the place!
They eventually had a women sitting in the middle of the field in 88 degree heat, watching the precious field, too bad for her luck of the draw!!
And heat sheet we received did not have any of the competitors for Sat events listed.
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Didn't you know it's a privilege to watch them work? I have no idea how the head official at the D3 Perry Regional can be from that association. He's way too nice and far too advanced in his understanding that the meet is for the athletes instead of the officials.
 
It probably is the Facility director informing meet management and officials as all are at the mercy of what the school/facility allows. FWIW, our School administration and grounds grew informed me that our turf installers said that metal spikes on the turf (even 1/8") would negate the warrantee on the turf. I got them to concede that 4 x 400 and 4 x 800 runners could not stay on the track after hand-off and exiting on the outside would be dangerous so now spikes are allowed only on the sidelines. Due to kids being on the playing area at a meet this year, I have heard they may require "no spikes allowed" at our meets next year. IT IS CRAZY. I will suggest that the entire football field be marked off with caution tape so we can have meets next year as many coaches seem to gather there, so their kids come see the coach with their spikes on. One team did seem to set-up their camp in an end zone and an official thought the bull-pen was on the turf. I seemed like the "turf police" , but in the coaches meeting AND in the meet regulations, coaches were informed of the facility rules and coaching area.

Still, all of these problems is not the fault of the District set-up. Do not "kill the Districts"
 
ENA2 said:
It probably is the Facility director informing meet management and officials as all are at the mercy of what the school/facility allows. FWIW, our School administration and grounds grew informed me that our turf installers said that metal spikes on the turf (even 1/8") would negate the warrantee on the turf. I got them to concede that 4 x 400 and 4 x 800 runners could not stay on the track after hand-off and exiting on the outside would be dangerous so now spikes are allowed only on the sidelines. Due to kids being on the playing area at a meet this year, I have heard they may require "no spikes allowed" at our meets next year. IT IS CRAZY. I will suggest that the entire football field be marked off with caution tape so we can have meets next year as many coaches seem to gather there, so their kids come see the coach with their spikes on. One team did seem to set-up their camp in an end zone and an official thought the bull-pen was on the turf. I seemed like the "turf police" , but in the coaches meeting AND in the meet regulations, coaches were informed of the facility rules and coaching area.

Still, all of these problems is not the fault of the District set-up. Do not "kill the Districts"
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if kids can’t walk on the turf on spikes, what do they do? there’s nowhere to warm up. and walking all the way around the facility to get to an event is a pain. if you want to protect your turf, don’t hold meets
 
psycho_dad said:
A few items that came up at our District. Things that I think should be standardized and not left up to the games committee.

...


Be responsible and get your team to the meet and to the line. At least 2 schools that did not bring enough kids to count as a team. Was told one team had kids quit this week and another schools has prom Saturday. 9 kids! Bring 9 not 8. Can't get the 4th division with 8.
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I will go out on a limb and guess that coaches with 8 participants are not very concerned with adding a 4th division.
 
ghsknightsfan said:
some coaches won’t bring kids who won’t be competitive to the district meet
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You get paid to coach every kid. You aren't going to get a kid physically injured going against far better competition. Did not see anyone belittling any kid that wasn't a top competitor. It's not about the coach, it's about the kids. Those "competitive" kids might become friends with the "non-competitive" kids and help them become competitive. Just being there and being exposed to it might be the thing that turns the switch on. Part of the beauty of the sport is that everyone can participate without ruining anything for anyone else.

The OHSAA set it up so every team can participate and enter 2 kids in each event. Nothing in the rules that has qualifying standards. Let your kids participate.
 
psycho_dad said:
You get paid to coach every kid. You aren't going to get a kid physically injured going against far better competition. Did not see anyone belittling any kid that wasn't a top competitor. It's not about the coach, it's about the kids. Those "competitive" kids might become friends with the "non-competitive" kids and help them become competitive. Just being there and being exposed to it might be the thing that turns the switch on. Part of the beauty of the sport is that everyone can participate without ruining anything for anyone else.

The OHSAA set it up so every team can participate and enter 2 kids in each event. Nothing in the rules that has qualifying standards. Let your kids participate.
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wasn’t saying i agree with it, but i definitely see both sides of it. you don’t want to put a kid out their just to get smoked, but you also don’t want to teach them to shy away from competition
 
I witnessed a girl run a 1:40+ 400 on Thursday night. Not once did I think she shouldn't have the chance to run and heard no one else comment on that manner. Let them run.
 
ghsknightsfan said:
wasn’t saying i agree with it, but i definitely see both sides of it. you don’t want to put a kid out their just to get smoked, but you also don’t want to teach them to shy away from competition
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Worrying about "getting smoked" might be a fear some athletes have, but it is our job to teach them to focus on the task at hand without worrying about how others might perceive them in the moment. Athletes don't understand how powerful they can be. They don't know the endless stories we have of athletes no one ever heard of that went on to be on podium as seniors. They don't know the empowering nature of sports that comes from achieving things they never conceived of. They don't know the power of dedicating themselves to a new task that enables tremendous growth and eventual accomplishment in all areas of their lives.

Kids can read when we're worried about them getting smoked. That thought should never cross our minds, except to understand what might be in their head.

Several years ago, a coach in our league had taken over a program in disarray. It was a mess. His best 3200 runners were likely to be more than a minute behind the next slowest runner. He asked me if I thought he should enter them in the district meet. He also indicated that they wanted to run. I had no trouble suggesting that they run. Their experiences would likely motivate their future training/racing and might encourage other neophytes to give the sport a go the next season.

Having a parent or a coach ashamed of what you can do is a powerful negative force no kid should experience. Get them to the line healthy, happy, and ready to give their best effort. Celebrate everything they do right - these will be numerous if you're looking for them. Don't let your pride, or theirs, interfere with their development.
 
Why is it that at District and Regional to State the throws get reversed? I thought the schedule was supposed to be the same the whole way through.
Girls shot and boys discus day 1 then at State the opposite.
All the other field events stay the same.
 
ghsknightsfan said:
if kids can’t walk on the turf on spikes, what do they do? there’s nowhere to warm up. and walking all the way around the facility to get to an event is a pain. if you want to protect your turf, don’t hold meets
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I have been to Austintown many times and there is no need to be on their football field. Maybe that's the problem...people thinking that the football field is the only place to go. My kids never are to warm-up on the infield at any meet. Some places they use the backstretch (outer lanes) on go outside the facility. At our place, even prior to turf, we never have used the infield as a place to warm-up or for teams (kids) to congregate. I just don't think that wearing spikes should disallow kids from going to the infield after a 4 x 400 handoff, or to get to the 4 x 100 exchange zone, etc.
We still can run an efficient meet as we have a great warm-up area (our cross country course) right next to the stadium and if the weather is wet/muddy, there is a paved road with no traffic. I guess, we have an ideal facility.
 
ENA2 said:
I have been to Austintown many times and there is no need to be on their football field. Maybe that's the problem...people thinking that the football field is the only place to go. My kids never are to warm-up on the infield at any meet. Some places they use the backstretch (outer lanes) on go outside the facility. At our place, even prior to turf, we never have used the infield as a place to warm-up or for teams (kids) to congregate. I just don't think that wearing spikes should disallow kids from going to the infield after a 4 x 400 handoff, or to get to the 4 x 100 exchange zone, etc.
We still can run an efficient meet as we have a great warm-up area (our cross country course) right next to the stadium and if the weather is wet/muddy, there is a paved road with no traffic. I guess, we have an ideal facility.
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Lakeview did not allow any warm ups anywhere inside the fence. No warming up on the backstretch. No pulling hurdles onto the PV or LJ runways. You also cannot walk all the way around the track. All traffic goes around one end of the stadium. The only thing you could do was some run outs on the turn before the distance races as you were in the bullpen. Some kids would get out on the track to warm up, but only until they were yelled at not to. I can see not being allowed on the Football field, but it was not allowed on the Turf... Unless you were at the Long jumb which was surrounded by turf. Most irritated I've ever been at a track meet. No clarifications on how many advance from the prelims. NO heat sheets until you arrived at the venue. And, there were mistakes that were not caught as a result.

Going outside the facility is fine for distance, but I think it's a safety issue not to be able to touch a hurdle before the race. Are kids expected not to do hurdle drills?
 
ghsknightsfan said:
if kids can’t walk on the turf on spikes, what do they do? there’s nowhere to warm up. and walking all the way around the facility to get to an event is a pain. if you want to protect your turf, don’t hold meets
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you will have a hard time finding facilities as more and more get turf
 
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I have a concern, but don't know where to take it... I suppose this would be an OHSAA issue, but not a CDAB issue. Anyway...

Each central districts get four qualifiers to the regional in each event.

The east/southeast district gets four qualifiers to the regional, with about half the number of teams compared to the central districts... thus, athletes in E/SE district have about twice the representation in the regional compared to teams in the central districts.

Avoiding any discussion about the strength of the competition, I would propose that the three central districts continue to send four qualifiers in each event to the regional; the E/SE send two qualifiers to the regional and the two best marks from any of the central districts or the E/SE district move on to the regional as at-large qualifiers. Proportionality is restored.
 
ENA2 said:
I have been to Austintown many times and there is no need to be on their football field. Maybe that's the problem...people thinking that the football field is the only place to go. My kids never are to warm-up on the infield at any meet. Some places they use the backstretch (outer lanes) on go outside the facility. At our place, even prior to turf, we never have used the infield as a place to warm-up or for teams (kids) to congregate. I just don't think that wearing spikes should disallow kids from going to the infield after a 4 x 400 handoff, or to get to the 4 x 100 exchange zone, etc.
We still can run an efficient meet as we have a great warm-up area (our cross country course) right next to the stadium and if the weather is wet/muddy, there is a paved road with no traffic. I guess, we have an ideal facility.
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you can’t exactly warm up on the track while there’s events going on. so where else do you propose? backstretch is fine before the meet. but what about during?
 
galesxc said:
I have a concern, but don't know where to take it... I suppose this would be an OHSAA issue, but not a CDAB issue. Anyway...

Each central districts get four qualifiers to the regional in each event.

The east/southeast district gets four qualifiers to the regional, with about half the number of teams compared to the central districts... thus, athletes in E/SE district have about twice the representation in the regional compared to teams in the central districts.

Avoiding any discussion about the strength of the competition, I would propose that the three central districts continue to send four qualifiers in each event to the regional; the E/SE send two qualifiers to the regional and the two best marks from any of the central districts or the E/SE district move on to the regional as at-large qualifiers. Proportionality is restored.
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That is an OHSAA issue when they lay out the representation model.
You could lobby OHSAA to have some central teams shift to the east to district so there are four equal districts in terms of teams, or to have the east/southeast teams slide into the central so for equal districts gets created.
Those are the options, as I don't think unequal bids from district to regional is going to be "accepted".
 
Some bad news. I have been told by very good sources and one or two others that 4 divisions is not going to happen anytime soon. Dead in the water. Also, Probably not going back to Jesse Owens. Get used to the current format. Had a lengthy discussion at Easter and had the exact same information told to me twice yesterday.
 
psycho_dad said:
Some bad news. I have been told by very good sources and one or two others that 4 divisions is not going to happen anytime soon. Dead in the water. Also, Probably not going back to Jesse Owens. Get used to the current format. Had a lengthy discussion at Easter and had the exact same information told to me twice yesterday.
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The OATCCC needs to make it its mission to return the meet to Jesse Owens then. It would be an extraordinary shame if Ohio HS student-athletes lost the opportunity to compete there for the state meet.
 
bucksman said:
That is an OHSAA issue when they lay out the representation model.
You could lobby OHSAA to have some central teams shift to the east to district so there are four equal districts in terms of teams, or to have the east/southeast teams slide into the central so for equal districts gets created.
Those are the options, as I don't think unequal bids from district to regional is going to be "accepted".
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In 2016, the E/SE schools were included with the central district teams in a four district draw. I believe this was the only year.

There are just five D1 Central District schools, south or east and not contiguous to the Columbus metro. All are still much closer to the current district site than they are to Marietta. Speaking only for our guys, we strongly prefer competing in the Central District... have zero interest in moving out of the Central District.

I guess I don't see the problem with bids to the regional based on ~equal proportionality. Think XC where 5 teams advance to the state from two of the regions, two teams advance from another and eight teams advance from the densest region.
 
claynation said:
The OATCCC needs to make it its mission to return the meet to Jesse Owens then. It would be an extraordinary shame if Ohio HS student-athletes lost the opportunity to compete there for the state meet.
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I don't think there are any OHSAA championships being held at OSU. My understanding is that OSU is the problem.
 
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