improve wrestling in ohio - 64 qualifiers

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You can say wrestling is an individual sport, and all have an equal opportunity to compete for a state title if in one combined division, however in reality that statement is far from the truth. I have been a head coach in all 3 divisions in Ohio. The access to depth for your program (number of bodies in your school) is so different from the large D1 schools to the smaller D2 and small D3 schools. This usually means different team budgets, differences in number of coaches you can hire, different in quality of practice partners, facilities, number of available kids to try and recruit to join your youth club, etc, etc. Yes, you can list a ton of D2 and D3 kids that could have won D1 state titles, or that did well in college all the same. But as far as running a typical D1 program vs a typical D2 program vs a typical D3 program, you are kidding yourself if you think things are on equal footing overall to be able to take the same kid and place them in all 3 average situations and expect that kid to develop the same at all 3 places when looking at the norm. Even in other sports that have an individual component, Ohio has more than 1 division - swimming, cross-country, and track to name a few. Call it watered down if you want, but it gives kids and teams of various sizes the opportunity to have a chance to have a competitive career and even team success with other programs on somewhat equal footing.
 
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Hammerdrill said:
They don't actually. Friend of mine knows both systems well, while they have a single champ, the way they get to it makes little sense. And the way the wrestle for the other places makes even less sense.
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They are partially right. They incorrectly do not have wrestle backs outside of the first round of the tournament. The coaches and fans have been asking for it for years with no success from the IHSAA.
 
D3 has produced some spectacular talent, but the depth is not there. But if you have combined divisions, small schools will still have kids compete. I personally like 3 division system, I love 3 mats on a stage on a Saturday night.
 
If you want national respect you go to super 32, ironman, high school nationals, or fargo. I think the state level isnt meant to be a national tournament. Ohio has lost its luster of superiority at the national level.
 
the structure of the Indiana state series is farcical. Layer 1 has D-E, layer 2, layer 3, and (state) layer 4 do not.

You could be the 3rd best kid in your layer 3 event and not make the state tournament. Lose to a top two kid in the layer 2 final and then draw the other top two kid in the quarters of layer 3. In many cases, that kid is a podium caliber kid as well.

Then at the state level, first round winners place and first round losers do not.
 
bucksman said:
the structure of the Indiana state series is farcical. Layer 1 has D-E, layer 2, layer 3, and (state) layer 4 do not.

You could be the 3rd best kid in your layer 3 event and not make the state tournament. Lose to a top two kid in the layer 2 final and then draw the other top two kid in the quarters of layer 3. In many cases, that kid is a podium caliber kid as well.

Then at the state level, first round winners place and first round losers do not.
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As I've said the wrestling community in Indiana has been pushing for this to change. The IHSAA is a pain and does everything donkey backwards like the OHSAA does sometimes. The IHSWCA (probably like the OHSWCA) has called for common sense to fix the non wrestle back stages to include them.
 
rr23724 said:
This is a colossal misconception on 2 fronts.

1. Wrestling is not solely an individual sport. Without good teammates to push you every day you will not be as good as you can be. Iron sharpens Iron.

2. School size can be extremely important. The bigger the school the more likely there are an increased number of athletes who can push each other in practice. Bigger schools tend to have a deeper talent pool which makes a team better which in turn makes the individual better. Are there exceptions to this...yes, but in general it holds true.

I would also bet that if we went to 1 division you would see all the best kids from smaller schools in the transfer portal to the bigger schools so that they could have a better practice room (more than what is already going on). This would destroy the smaller school programs and eventually lead to schools dropping the team. Numbers would go down statewide due to the small schools having ZERO chance to compete.

During my 21 years of coaching wrestling in Ohio across all 3 divisions (at the same school...we went from D3 to d1 in 6 years!) I can say without question that D1 is on a whole different level than D3. The highest level of D3...maybe the state final 4 could compete seriously in D1. Most of the others would struggle to even qualify for the state tournament. If you look at who most of those kids are at D3, they are usually the only kid from their school at state or even the schools first ever qualifier. Those small schools will never be able to compete with the big guns in D1.

When I was coaching in D3 I always insisted it was just as tough...after being in D1 its just not close. If you haven't experienced all 3 divisions personally it really is hard to describe the difference.
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D3 to D1 in 6 years?! HAS to be New Albany, or Hilliard Bradley lol

On another note... I do know for a fact that some D1 college programs rank Ohio D1 recruits higher than their D3 counterparts. Using a points system to evaluate a recruit, a state championship in D1 is worth more than D3. From what I've seen over the years, the top D3 and D2 guys can hang with the tops of D1, but I don't see them placing as high if they were D1 most of the time, and I say that as a guy who was D3. D3 is SUPER top heavy, a lot of those lower-tier qualifiers don't even sniff a state berth if they're at a larger school.
 
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Basement Bias said:
They are partially right. They incorrectly do not have wrestle backs outside of the first round of the tournament. The coaches and fans have been asking for it for years with no success from the IHSAA.
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It's weird, it's like they said, "how can we get this thing over with as fast as possible?".
 
Dro24 said:
D3 to D1 in 6 years?! HAS to be New Albany, or Hilliard Bradley lol
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Licking Heights...for the last 15-20 years we were always in the top 3-4 for student growth rate in the state with New Albany and Olentangy.

In 2000 we had about 80-90 kids per grade level. Now we have about 350-370 per grade level. And we are still growing.
 
Hammerdrill said:
It's weird, it's like they said, "how can we get this thing over with as fast as possible?".
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Well they (IHSAA) dropped the only dual championship at the time which was single class. The IHSWCA had to create their own dual tournament which is classed but is invite only at this point. The team champion is only based on the individual points results at the individual state finals. Not surprising when the IHSAA only cares about the basketball tournament. That's less work for the IHSAA going that route.
 
Would you prefer State Brackets to be:

16?
32?
64?



speedthatkills said:
I completely agree. 1 division will chase kids away from the sport. We do not do one division in any other sport, why reduce numbers in wrestling as well. Heck, while we are at it, if we really want an overall champion lets throw the girls in as well. If you have ever wrestled, or had a kid wrestle at the state tournament you start to understand how special it is. The environment, the wrestling, the taking over of Columbus, the whole dang experience. If you are one of these "live through my kid dads" and want to see your son as the best, then get your to the national tourneys but dont change what Ohio has in place because from my point of view it is incredible.
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u
 
Oh! It looks like you already did.

I see the results have an overwhelming amount of votes for...wait for it...three divisions!

Perhaps shoot for two divisions instead of one?
 
One Division said:
Cruiser96:

you are not productive at all.
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Define "productive"?

Based on that definition, would you say this poll was "productive"?

BTW: Here are the current standings for the poll you conducted. Your position was clearly laid out in the original post. I read the post, considered your points, and then casted my vote. I have no way of knowing how others went about their process, but I can tell you that the results of their votes were tabulated.
  • 1-10.4%
  • 2-21.3%
  • 3-61.0%
  • 4-5.5%
  • 5-3.0%
 
In order to have 48 or 64 participants per weight class for 3 divisions, we would need a larger facility that’s capable of holding 20 or more mats.
Your question doesn’t work.
You’re not grasping the fact that there are 3 divisions; and should be 3 divisions.
 
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We start with 3 divisions. Every wrestler has a chance at Sectionals Top 4 in each weight class go to a district, 4 per sectional. 4 districts geographically spaced in ohio in each division. Top 4 makes 16 going to the state tournament in each weight class per division. I like it.
 
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