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  #31  
Old 03-18-18, 09:28 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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I think everyone has sort of touched on this, but I'll go further...It's the "burn out" factor.
Today's top college kids almost all started intense wrestling in grade school, or Jr. high. 40 years ago, the vast majority of future college wrestlers didn't really start H.S type intensity drilling until H.S. Many did, but most didn't. In fact most of the best wrestlers actually played "other" sports as well....These kids today simply "burn out" after finally achieving early success in college. It's all they've ever done.
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  #32  
Old 03-18-18, 09:46 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Hayes almost lost his opening round match b/c of bottom wrestling. He got ridden out in 30/30 in the quarter loss. Going back to the Iowa dual, Hayes chose neutral in a tied bout third period if I recall correctly.

Campbell gets ridden a lot. Was ridden out in the second period of his consolation bout, losing the consolation bout because of the RT point.

Both Jordan's have significant issues from bottom. Choosing neutral in a 2-2 bout against Tyler Berger (i.e. Micah) is a clear indicator of that.

McKenna chose neutral trailing 1-0 against Meredith. To me that's a lack of confidence in getting out. Yianni got out quickly against Meredith it should be noted.

Moore was turned on a suck back in his consolation final loss to Conel, though bottom didn't seem to be an issue over the course of the season.
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  #33  
Old 03-18-18, 09:52 PM
miketyson miketyson is offline
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its unheard to score

the amount of points ohio state did and not win the title. To say that they are not improving enough is pretty ridiculous you have 8 all americans and put up 134 points and say they are not improving....come on really? What if they win the title .....I bet this post doesnt happen.
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  #34  
Old 03-18-18, 10:01 PM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
Hayes almost lost his opening round match b/c of bottom wrestling. He got ridden out in 30/30 in the quarter loss. Going back to the Iowa dual, Hayes chose neutral in a tied bout third period if I recall correctly.

Campbell gets ridden a lot. Was ridden out in the second period of his consolation bout, losing the consolation bout because of the RT point.

Both Jordan's have significant issues from bottom. Choosing neutral in a 2-2 bout against Tyler Berger (i.e. Micah) is a clear indicator of that.

McKenna chose neutral trailing 1-0 against Meredith. To me that's a lack of confidence in getting out. Yianni got out quickly against Meredith it should be noted.

Moore was turned on a suck back in his consolation final loss to Conel, though bottom didn't seem to be an issue over the course of the season.
I won’t go point by point as it is a waste, but I will reiterate that the 2nd place finish was not a result of Campbell or consolation losses. It is because Hayes and Moore lost in the quarters and OSU went 0-4 in the first four semis. If you are being objective, I think it would be impossible to blame any of those losses on an overall deficiency on the mat. It is a mischaracterzation to say that because Hayes got ridden in a 30 second ride out or that because McKenna chose to go neutral with Meredith that they are not good mat wrestlers. Obviously, we can agree to disagree.
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  #35  
Old 03-18-18, 10:07 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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This is actually a very unique and good thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Root View Post
I'm fairly certain, this will cause a short circuit with some readers, but this is what I'm seeing... There are an overwhelming number of wrestlers that don't look as good their 3rd, 4th or 5th year, as they did their first or second year. It's simply an observation, but I'm talking about a lot of top notch guys.
To be honest Coach Root I was actually thinking the exact same thing the other day. This has been going on for awhile. I will start with the Dustin Schlatter dismantling Esposito. Then on from there.

I think it is a combination of just about everything that everyone has mentioned. Wrestlers are already good, passion, burn out, wear and tear, ceiling differences, youth wrestling better, all of it.
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  #36  
Old 03-18-18, 10:08 PM
FirestoneFan FirestoneFan is offline
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I think all are improving.
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  #37  
Old 03-18-18, 10:14 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProV1 View Post
Why do people think escaping is an “easy point” and that you are deficient if you don’t take bottom? I can score a riding time point and 4 point nearfall from top vs 1 by choosing bottom. When are people gonna realize that top wrestling is getting much better because the reward for being good is so much greater. Hint: get really good on top and take that position or neutral every time. The top NCCA wrestlers are typically best on their feet and on top. To hell with bottom. The auto bottom mentality is for old timers.
Man, I have thought this for years. I'll be honest and say that when I'm officiating some times and I see a kid get ridden a whole period and maybe even turned, losing by a point or two. Comes to the third period and he chooses bottom. I'm flabbergasted. Spends the whole third period and all his energy trying to get out. Either doesn't, gets turned or gets out near the end of the match and loses.

You know I watched Spencer Lee enough over these last few weeks to know, not to pick bottom on him. I mean if you watch the kid and look into match ups you could tell that Nate was not going to beat him this time. I thought, he is turning everyone and these kids are not slouches. I can't see any reason that he will not turn Nate too. Sure enough. Bam!
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  #38  
Old 03-18-18, 10:24 PM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjjsj View Post
Man, I have thought this for years. I'll be honest and say that when I'm officiating some times and I see a kid get ridden a whole period and maybe even turned, losing by a point or two. Comes to the third period and he chooses bottom. I'm flabbergasted. Spends the whole third period and all his energy trying to get out. Either doesn't, gets turned or gets out near the end of the match and loses.

You know I watched Spencer Lee enough over these last few weeks to know, not to pick bottom on him. I mean if you watch the kid and look into match ups you could tell that Nate was not going to beat him this time. I thought, he is turning everyone and these kids are not slouches. I can't see any reason that he will not turn Nate too. Sure enough. Bam!
Agree 100%. I don’t care how good a kid is from the bottom. If you are wrestling a really good top wrestler, you should not under. The scoring system does not make it worth the risk and why would you put your opponent in a position of strength?
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  #39  
Old 03-18-18, 10:33 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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Prov,

Just to further your point, the top wrestler is called the OFFENSIVE wrestler and the bottom DEFENSIVE.
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  #40  
Old 03-18-18, 10:43 PM
graceunder graceunder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nkawtg135 View Post
Quite possibly the dumbest thing on the internet today. Bucks has 8 All Americans and you say they need to change!??

Cael got David Taylor and Ed Ruth at the same time. After they graduated he somehow go Nolf, Joseph, Hall, and Nickal. There’s no way PSU remains that fortunate.
Are the wrestler leaving the program better than they entered?
If they are then maybe it is dumb but if not maybe my concern has merit.
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  #41  
Old 03-18-18, 10:48 PM
Cthelites Cthelites is offline
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Sometimes it's bad luck too.
Look at NATO.
If Lee doesn't pull his rs he's a 2 timer.
Sorry but I think he beats suriano and Cruz. I hated drawing Lee in semis and said winner coming from them.
Bo had ringer and his cuz his first two yrs.
And he had a major issue/s with his toe/foot.
Add being double daddy and there u go.
Snyder is capt America! Not sure u can say he didn't get better lol. Oh yea he lost to a Greco Olympic runner up whom is 60 lbs heavier.
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  #42  
Old 03-18-18, 10:53 PM
Cthelites Cthelites is offline
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There is no doubt tho that they struggle on bottom and some on top.
Maybe some of you whiners should pony up to the rtc to fund this program.
Psu had someone give them like a 5-10 million endowment.
Hard to compete with that!
Maybe we could had gotten marinelli's girlfriend a job and kept the bull in state.
Or maybe we could have had some more money and paid Carr to be on the staff to have his son wrestle here.
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  #43  
Old 03-18-18, 11:04 PM
Cthelites Cthelites is offline
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That last post was ment for the Cooper thread
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  #44  
Old 03-18-18, 11:34 PM
Wrestling245 Wrestling245 is offline
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I wouldn't say they haven't improved, i would go as far as saying a lot of these guys (tOSU who I am referring to) haven't peaked at the right time. They started off guns a blazin this year, and seemed to (slightly) taper off near the end vs PSU, who ALWAYS seeming to peak at the right time and win those key matches.
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  #45  
Old 03-18-18, 11:38 PM
Wrestling245 Wrestling245 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthelites View Post
Sometimes it's bad luck too.
Look at NATO.
If Lee doesn't pull his rs he's a 2 timer.
Sorry but I think he beats suriano and Cruz. I hated drawing Lee in semis and said winner coming from them.
Bo had ringer and his cuz his first two yrs.
And he had a major issue/s with his toe/foot.
Add being double daddy and there u go.
Snyder is capt America! Not sure u can say he didn't get better lol. Oh yea he lost to a Greco Olympic runner up whom is 60 lbs heavier.
Then later avenged that loss twice to a guy with 5 or so inches and 60 pounds on him. And it's also sad that people have to go as far "points were scored on him" to say he's declining. Not true. All of Ohio states senior starters this year were 4x All Americans and won 4 national titles between them. That's damn impressive. PSU is on a "once in a lifetime" run and it's sad that some of these incredible OSU teams will be overshadowed because of that. Proud to be a buckeye and from this great state. As always, O-H...
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  #46  
Old 03-18-18, 11:38 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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Funny though, for the past several years everyone has been saying that tOSU guys look gassed during the regular season but always peak at the right time for NCAAs. This weekend they have a record number of AAs and get second place and everyone starts complaining about Tom Ryan as if he is Marvin Lewis. Oops did I say that. Sorry. Marvin is actually a very nice guy.
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  #47  
Old 03-18-18, 11:44 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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I-O

Don't necessarily agree with the "Once in a lifetime" reference to PSU. Let me tell you. Cael is doing his thing there. I can tell you that his competitors were using his newness at PSU as a weakness when speaking to recruits. They were telling the recruits that Cael has a lot of pressure on him to win now since he is getting paid all that money. It is going to take him awhile to start winning there.

Man, is he ever proving them wrong. They are a well oiled machine. Don't see it stopping anytime soon unless he retires and then it still may keep going if they have a std alum take over. They are definitely the new Iowa.
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  #48  
Old 03-18-18, 11:44 PM
jayce jayce is offline
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Great thread. I'll go with the second thought that kids are just getting that much better combined with the reality of having to stare down the fact that student athletes need to go on and get real jobs. My oldest son (13) has had a pretty good youth career and I have a little one (4) that is just getting started. When I compare some of the talent in the room now that my little one is seeing versus when my oldest started it is just off the charts. Wrestling has improved so much over the last 10 years at the youth level that it translating big time into the incoming collegiate freshmen.

That said, look at I-mar, he seemed to peak his second year and then battled through some injuries and could not keep pace with Cenzo. I think part of what is happening is a realization that wrestling is pretty hard to make a career at and these student athletes start realizing that there is much more to life than wrestling. I would say it's the same as freshman drinking - hit it hard as much as possible and by the end of the year, a freshman/sophomore can really throw them down. Go drinking with upper classman, they have their eyes on a different prize.
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  #49  
Old 03-19-18, 08:51 AM
Hendo30 Hendo30 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Root View Post
I think there is places where the coaches are really developing kids. NC State seems to have that type of coaching staff. Tariq was on fire.


Coach Root
Wilson has impressed me even in his D2 high school days the kid was excellent on his feet. Having a returning All American in the weight above you in Kevin Jack can surely help you get up to speed for D1 competition. One of my favorite match's of the tournament was the Wilson vs Brock match that was an exciting match! Hidlay was a beast coming out of High school. I don't know much about their 197 except he is a national champ now.
4 All Americans is great and I agree their coches have done a great job but I would expect 2 of those guys to be All Americans I knew nothing about the 197 and honestly am not surprised that Wilson was an AA but wasn't expecting him to be top 3 and almost a finalist. He had a great tournament and was pulling for him in every match along with all Ohio kids. But NC State had some disappointments too. Another local kid I pull for Fausz returning AA went 1-2 as did 3 other of their qualifiers. My point is I'm not sure they are doing a better job of developing their kids as any of the other top 5 schools. Their program is definitely getting better I'm not knocking them.
I know you were using Ohio State as an example in this thread because we are familiar with the names and that the thread was just for conversation. In my opinion Ohio State has done a great Job 8 All Americans is amazing! When it comes to the top 8 guys in a weight class anything can happen they are all razor close except for a few.
You don't see 4x National champs like you see 4x high school champs. Mark Hall was the phenom Freshman last year and he doesn't win it this year. Does that mean Penn State didn't develop him no it doesn't. Spencer Lee and Yianni Diakomihalis are world champs so I wasn't surprised by them winning national titles.
Lee beating Tomasello does that mean Tomasello hasn't developed No it doesn't. Spencer Lee was a class act in his remarks about Tomasello he showed respect for him. Shows me he knows that matchup could go either way.
Bo Jordan Sure I wanted him to win a title and since he didn't do I think he didn't develop the answer is no! That dude is a champ in my eyes for being a man stepping up taking care of his family first and then continuing to compete at a great level.
Kyle Snyder one of the greatest ever. I think he loses 2 matches in his college career Olympic gold medalist and World champion has he not developed No! He's a true champion who continues to impress I don't see many others who could give up the weight he does and still win that is amazing.

Thanks Nathan Tomasello, Bo Jordan, and Kyle Snider it's been great watching all 3 of you become 4x All Americans that's incredible! Best of luck in your future!




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  #50  
Old 03-19-18, 09:10 AM
CoachHoversten CoachHoversten is offline
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I think the best people to answer this question are people who wrestled in college, especially D1. Not sure how many Yappi users did that (though based on everyone's expertise I would think close to 100%) but perhaps a former D1 college wrestler can weigh in on how much of their time was devoted to improvement and technique, rather than working out.

I know watching B10 network and then the NCAA's I heard about several PSU guys who love to put themselves in weird situations and then ask/learn how to deal with said situation. Is that a coaching thing or an individual thing?

Another note, a few years back I was at Ironman and Cael was sitting in the row behind me. I about had a heart attack...here was the greatest wrestler (arguably) in history, and I was listening to him talk about the sport, what he was seeing. One match was #1 in the nation, from PA, and he simply asked "what are his grades".

If my son was good enough to attract the top programs, I would want him to wrestle for Cael, even though I love my Buckeyes.

Also heard about how Cael never once mentioned the team race, just encourages his wrestlers to control themselves, wrestle the way they wrestle....how many times did we hear Tom Ryan in an interview talk about team points? "We need a major here", etc.

Perhaps its a pressure thing....PSU guys feel more relaxed with themselves and their wrestling, OSU guys are worried about team score.
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  #51  
Old 03-19-18, 09:15 AM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachHoversten View Post
I think the best people to answer this question are people who wrestled in college, especially D1. Not sure how many Yappi users did that (though based on everyone's expertise I would think close to 100%) but perhaps a former D1 college wrestler can weigh in on how much of their time was devoted to improvement and technique, rather than working out.

I know watching B10 network and then the NCAA's I heard about several PSU guys who love to put themselves in weird situations and then ask/learn how to deal with said situation. Is that a coaching thing or an individual thing?

Another note, a few years back I was at Ironman and Cael was sitting in the row behind me. I about had a heart attack...here was the greatest wrestler (arguably) in history, and I was listening to him talk about the sport, what he was seeing. One match was #1 in the nation, from PA, and he simply asked "what are his grades".

If my son was good enough to attract the top programs, I would want him to wrestle for Cael, even though I love my Buckeyes.

Also heard about how Cael never once mentioned the team race, just encourages his wrestlers to control themselves, wrestle the way they wrestle....how many times did we hear Tom Ryan in an interview talk about team points? "We need a major here", etc.

Perhaps its a pressure thing....PSU guys feel more relaxed with themselves and their wrestling, OSU guys are worried about team score.
Have to say that I believe there is something to this and some validity of your points showed in the PSU/tOSU dual. Snyder definitely seemed like he felt the pressure. He could have wrestled his normal match and probably got a major. Instead he tries a throw.
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  #52  
Old 03-19-18, 09:21 AM
keithcarter keithcarter is offline
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I think there are 3 things happening. I actually agree with Root some!

Kids are better younger. I know coach root you said how can this be in a dying sport but i truly believe it shows it really clear. The gap between the "great" kids and "good" kids is as wide as i have ever seen it. In many ways its becoming the haves and have nots. and i just see that gap growing.

Wear and tear is huge. I talked to no less than 5 wrestlers this weekend that are going in for surgery next week. Shoulders, knees, ankles, elbows. College wrestling is more aggressive and physical and i think wrestlers are getting beat up.

My last point is simple. Its life. The things older wrestlers are thinking about and dealing with have life implications. Thinking about jobs, and life after wrestling. it may not be a conscious thought but its definitely in the back of their mind. As younger athletes they are still sheltered and i believe coaches control most of what they do to try to keep them in a routine. As athletes get older i believe they get more freedom.

I could list about 15 things but those are the big 3. Is the drive of some wrestlers less as they get older and succeeded younger? Could it be because it just hurts more to do the things required? Like i said i dont think many of them are conscious decisions but i think they are around in peoples minds.

I think there are wrestlers that develop but i think there are some that dont!

I think there are many though that everyone just catches up to them. many of the best freshman wrestlers come out of the best clubs and programs in the country and their wrestling and learning are accelerated and they are so much more advance than others when they are high school seniors and freshman in college but that gap closes as they are in a tough college room because everyone is getting better at that rate.
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  #53  
Old 03-19-18, 09:27 AM
CoachHoversten CoachHoversten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjjsj View Post
Have to say that I believe there is something to this and some validity of your points showed in the PSU/tOSU dual. Snyder definitely seemed like he felt the pressure. He could have wrestled his normal match and probably got a major. Instead he tries a throw.
For the record, I do understand the team points thing when talking about a dual meet. I coach the same way regarding duals....how everyone can contribute (avoiding a pin helps the team, getting one extra takedown when you could otherwise coast to a decision, etc).

In bracketed tournaments, I have never cared about team points and tell the kids to just wrestle, and this tourney is all about advancing yourself. If you win 3 - 2 or 18 - 3, either way you move on.

As they said at NCAA's, it's just about moving on, surviving to the next match/day.
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  #54  
Old 03-19-18, 09:40 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Great thread, and first I'll weigh in on the original question before I get into the TR bashing.

Scenario 1 - College Coaching
I don't think there's a lot of secret moves out there anymore. By the time a top 10 recruit gets to college, he's pretty well polished. I do think there's some strategic coaching going on (take up, down, neutral, catch and release, this guys shoots to the left, watch out for the cradle, etc.). I would think that this strategy is pretty good for top programs. Also, some coaches have reputations for peaking their guys for March. Most years the Yappi pundits would proclaim PSU with this award. In 2015 everyone was saying TR was the master of March. It's pretty easy to go with the winner, and PSU has been doing that pretty consistently for awhile. Actually, if you look at just NCAA performance (compared to seeds), Iowa over performed more so than anyone this year. They were supposed to be battling for a 4th place trophy and finished a solid 3rd, 17 points ahead of MICH and NCST. I also think the theory that "the room" will improve a recruit is somewhat legit. If you're surrounded by guys like Snyder, BoJo and NaTo it will have an impact. So, IMO, I don't credit college coaching with "lack of improvement" by college wrestlers.

Scenario 2 - Young Guns are Better
I feel this is legit based on just coming home from Cleveland and watching Lee and Yianni, although I'd like to see some research to prove the whole theory that "There are an overwhelming number of wrestlers that don't look as good their 3rd, 4th or 5th year, as they did their first or second year." If I'm not mistaken, BoJo (favorite punching bag in this thread) was NCAA 2nd his 4th year. And this theory may be true, but just two years ago everyone was amazed that MyMar won a title becoming only the 15th to do so since 1928. It should be noted that for 40 years during this span freshmen were not eligible to wrestle and greats such as Dan Hodge (as in Hodge Trophy) could only wrestle three years. But 50 years of wrestling is still enough to declare that this is not a common occurrence. It should also be noted that four true freshmen won NCAA titles in 1947 (although one was in his mid 20s). I've been searching for an article from 1947 declaring that wrestlers aren't getting any better in their 3rd, 4th or 5th year as they did their 1st or 2nd year. So far I haven't been able to find it. One thing that makes me doubt that theory is that senior level studs aren't giving way to these young guns. The US Freestyle team competing in the World Cup looks like this right now (guessing on some ages), 57kg Gilman (25), 61kg Maple (27), 65kg Steiber (27), 70kg Green (26), 74kg Burroughs (29), 79kg Dake (27), 92kg Cox (23), 97kg Snyder (22), 125kg (I think) Gwiz (24). So, wrestlers are still getting better with age. Typically, the senior level team is made up of guys finished with college. There's a few younger ones in that lineup like Snyder, Cox and Gilman, but only Snyder was a young gun who went on the world stage before finishing college. That being said, I think Lee beats Gilman for the US Freestyle team this summer for the World Championship. Yianni is not ready for the World stage at the senior level. And for old guys like me, who can forget Jimmy Carr (David Carr's uncle) who made the Olympic team while still a 17 year old HS wrestler.

Scenario 3 - Wear and Tear
Definitely a factor. Wrestling since you're a toddler, wrestling year round, a physical sport that puts you at risk for multiple injuries, all add to the wear and tear factor. And you have the non wrestling factors like BoJo and the tumor in his foot, and emotional wear and tear that guys like TShirt go thru. And just the burn out factor can play a role.

The original theory...
"There are an overwhelming number of wrestlers that don't look as good their 3rd, 4th or 5th year, as they did their first or second year."
I'm calling it fake news until I've seen some data/research other than "Lee and Yianni are really good."
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  #55  
Old 03-19-18, 09:58 AM
Pope Francis 1 Pope Francis 1 is online now
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Fell asleep halfway through the bdhof post, but he has some valid points and I'll add this about BoJo.....
BoJo was within a questionable call (vs. Mark Hall) of winning an ncaa title last year. And that was just 2 weeks after he had beaten Hall in the B1G tourney. So BoJo's career path was NOT the "crash and burn" that many are suggesting.
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  #56  
Old 03-19-18, 10:10 AM
Huge Huge is offline
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The answer is in your question coach. Of course they are improving which is why it is so hard to AA multiple times and even once. We also have freshman coming in at an unprecedented level with world team credentials such as Lee, Suriano, Fix, etc. I don't think anyone would deny that Dean Heil is one of the best and most accomplished wrestlers ever to come out of Ohio. Sure, he didn't AA and he took some losses this year but you have to give the others guys credit. Lots of champs get beat in subsequent years and very few win multiples. Zain, Snyder, and others make us forget how rare it is. Just ask Imar, Gabe Dean, and others that seemed unbeatable until they were beaten. Doesn't mean they are not still great but several guys can win at each weight every year in most cases. In terms of what causes a drop off if there is one, I'd say you only have so many years of health and being able to keep the mental and emotional tanks full of desire. I seem to remember having a lot more fun after I quit wrestling in college. It turns out, school becomes much easier, you can have time for work experience/making money, and their are lots of parties and, best of all, GIRLS!!!!!!
So, its real hard to stay 100% gonzo on wrestling.
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  #57  
Old 03-19-18, 10:23 AM
Irishtony Irishtony is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachHoversten View Post
I think the best people to answer this question are people who wrestled in college, especially D1. Not sure how many Yappi users did that (though based on everyone's expertise I would think close to 100%) but perhaps a former D1 college wrestler can weigh in on how much of their time was devoted to improvement and technique, rather than working out.

I know watching B10 network and then the NCAA's I heard about several PSU guys who love to put themselves in weird situations and then ask/learn how to deal with said situation. Is that a coaching thing or an individual thing?

Another note, a few years back I was at Ironman and Cael was sitting in the row behind me. I about had a heart attack...here was the greatest wrestler (arguably) in history, and I was listening to him talk about the sport, what he was seeing. One match was #1 in the nation, from PA, and he simply asked "what are his grades".

If my son was good enough to attract the top programs, I would want him to wrestle for Cael, even though I love my Buckeyes.

Also heard about how Cael never once mentioned the team race, just encourages his wrestlers to control themselves, wrestle the way they wrestle....how many times did we hear Tom Ryan in an interview talk about team points? "We need a major here", etc.

Perhaps its a pressure thing....PSU guys feel more relaxed with themselves and their wrestling, OSU guys are worried about team score.
How incredibly ego-centric. I don't think you have to be a former college wrestler at all to answer this question. As a matter of fact, I never wrestled and can participate in this discussion. I have two sons who do wrestle...one highly recruited on the DII/DIII circuit. I heard him sit in a DII coaches office last summer and answer this question:

DII Coach: "What do you want your college experience to look like?"

Brahm: "I just want to wrestle."

That was mid-summer last year. He has wrestled since he was in first grade. He wrestled year round for the most part but also participated in baseball during the spring until his junior year. I saw potential in him as a wrestler, so I pushed him but not to his breaking point. We didn't do OAC state until 6th grade. We just tried to improve from year-to-year by participating in open tournaments and summer camps.

Brahm is a two time state placer, 7th and 4th respectively. Mid way through this season, he dropped 12 lbs in a week to make 160. He had two highly anticipated tournaments and wanted to be lighter thinking he would still maintain his strength at the lighter weight. He tanked both those tournaments (at least that's how he felt about it). After the second (Top Gun) he texted me and said "If this wasn't my senior year and I wasn't the team captain, I'd quit right now."

It takes an incredible amount of energy, dedication, devotion, determination.....heart.....whatever you want to call it, to wrestle...period. Cutting weight sucks and that comes from a guy who never cut weight because I never wrestled. To do that for so many years is demanding on the body and takes its toll. Injuries take their toll. My son lucked out and never ended up with that labral tear that cuts seasons short.

So to Coach Root's original post, I think it's a little bit of all of it, but mostly, the incredible amount of mileage that wrestling puts on a body.

My son is not going to wrestle in college....his words "I want to eat whatever I want." He's tired of cutting weight and like he said, "what does it do for me over the next forty years that I haven't learned already." Sometimes wrestlers are just tired of wrestling.

Last edited by Irishtony; 03-19-18 at 10:33 AM.
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  #58  
Old 03-19-18, 10:33 AM
CoachHoversten CoachHoversten is offline
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Originally Posted by Irishtony View Post
How incredibly ego-centric. I don't think you have to be a former college wrestler at all to answer this question. As a matter of fact, I never wrestled and can participate in this discussion. I have two sons who do wrestle...one highly recruited on the DII/DIII circuit. I heard him sit in a DII coaches office last summer and answer this question:

DII Coach: "What do you want your college experience to look like?"

Brahm: "I just want to wrestle."

That was mid-summer last year. He has wrestled since he was in first grade. He wrestled year round for the most part but also participated in baseball during the spring until his junior year. I saw potential in him as a wrestler, so I pushed him but not to his breaking point. We didn't do OAC state until 6th grade. We just tried to improve from year-to-year by participating in open tournaments and summer camps.

Brahm is a two time state placer, 7th and 4th respectively. Mid way through this season, he dropped 12 lbs in a week to make 160. He had two highly anticipated tournaments and wanted to be lighter thinking he would still maintain his strength at the lighter weight. He tanked both those tournaments. After the second (Top Gun) he texted me and said "If this wasn't my senior year and I wasn't the team captain, I'd quit right now."

It takes an incredible amount of energy, dedication, devotion, determination.....heart.....whatever you want to call it, to wrestle...period. Cutting weight sucks and that comes from a guy who never cut weight because I never wrestled. To do that for so many years is demanding on the body and takes its toll. Injuries take their toll. My son lucked out and never ended up with that labral tear that cuts seasons short.

So to Coach Root's original post, I think it's a little bit of all of it, but mostly, the incredible amount of mileage that wrestling puts on a body.

My son is not going to wrestle in college....his words "I want to eat whatever I want." He's tired of cutting weight and like he said, "what does it do for me over the next forty years that I haven't learned already." Sometimes wrestlers are just tired of wrestling.
It's ego-centric to say that people who wrestled in college could answer better than people who watch college wrestling? I didn't wrestle in college (I played D1 baseball) so I am saying I can't give as good of input into whether college focuses on improvement or not.

No offense but I will take the word of someone who went through it over what people's opinions are of what Tom Ryan should have done different.
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Old 03-19-18, 10:36 AM
Irishtony Irishtony is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachHoversten View Post
It's ego-centric to say that people who wrestled in college could answer better than people who watch college wrestling? I didn't wrestle in college (I played D1 baseball) so I am saying I can't give as good of input into whether college focuses on improvement or not.

No offense but I will take the word of someone who went through it over what people's opinions are of what Tom Ryan should have done different.
If you read all of my post, which you obviously didn't, you wouldn't have read where I said it was Tom Ryan's fault. And again, it doesn't take a college athlete to participate in this discussion.
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Old 03-19-18, 10:39 AM
Buckeyenut313 Buckeyenut313 is offline
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One thing that is being overlooked regarding Snyder's "dominance" in his first two years vs the last two is the weight class. He wrestled 197 those first two years. Giving up the weight absolutely makes a huge difference. Other than the loss to Coon- he still dominated every match regardless of the match score.
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