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  #301  
Old 03-13-16, 05:43 PM
Look Ma No Hands Look Ma No Hands is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Ball must be out of the hand prior to the end of the period for the goal to be counted.
I could just see the confusion in that scenario. No offense, but I wonder what percent of officials would get that call right. I wonder how many officials would actually count the basket since the foul occurred prior the buzzer.

And if they did the call right, you can hear the clamor... "How can it be a 2 shot foul??? The shot went in!!!"
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  #302  
Old 03-14-16, 07:55 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Look Ma No Hands View Post
I could just see the confusion in that scenario. No offense, but I wonder what percent of officials would get that call right. I wonder how many officials would actually count the basket since the foul occurred prior the buzzer.
Unfortunately, probably not enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by Look Ma No Hands View Post
And if they did the call right, you can hear the clamor... "How can it be a 2 shot foul??? The shot went in!!!"
No different than most rules that people don't know.
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  #303  
Old 03-15-16, 09:53 AM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Do you call technical on Team A

Team A has the ball with 2.5 sec left in the game down by 1. Team A shoot and score 2 points with .04
Left in Game,

1. Team A Fans rush the Floor takes 3 minutes to clear the floor
2. Team A bench players rush the floor takes 2 minutes to clear the floor
3. Team A Fans and bench players rush the floor takes 5 minute to clear the floor


Do you call technical on Team A ?
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  #304  
Old 03-16-16, 08:32 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
Team A has the ball with 2.5 sec left in the game down by 1. Team A shoot and score 2 points with .04
Left in Game,

1. Team A Fans rush the Floor takes 3 minutes to clear the floor
2. Team A bench players rush the floor takes 2 minutes to clear the floor
3. Team A Fans and bench players rush the floor takes 5 minute to clear the floor


Do you call technical on Team A ?
1 - No
2 - Yes
3 - No

The players cannot leave the bench area. It's clear by rule what the penalty is.... We had a similar situation occur during a girls tournament game in Ohio this year, and it did impact the outcome.

For the fans (and the situation involving both), not issuing a technical and here's why...........
1) we don't know the allegiance of all the participants
2) it's unreasonable to expect the fans to not react to the goal at .4 as
within a blink of an eye, (literally) time would have expired.

Remember, in high school, the clock does not stop after a made goal. If the officials, had definite knowledge that .4 remained when the ball passed through the net (the point where the goal became successful), they could then place .4 back on the clock and award Team B a throw-in from anywhere along the endline. This allows Team B the opportunity to catch and shoot.

If the fans did not rush the court, there is no way, team B would have even secured the ball for a throw-in prior to time expiring.
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  #305  
Old 03-16-16, 09:37 AM
starktops starktops is offline
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if team A scores and the inbounder for team B is out of bounds and a player from team B throws the ball to the player out of bounds and it bounces off him back inbounds can a player from team A pick up the ball and score?
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  #306  
Old 03-16-16, 11:18 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by starktops View Post
if team A scores and the inbounder for team B is out of bounds and a player from team B throws the ball to the player out of bounds and it bounces off him back inbounds can a player from team A pick up the ball and score?
This is HTBT (had to be there) play.

While the strict interpretation of the rule states that once the player from Team B has the ball in his possession (before he throws it to his teammate, who is out of bounds) the throw-in has begun..... Now, if the ball bounced to the foul line or away from the endline, then the spirit of the rule allows for the thrower (player out of bounds) to secure the ball for that throw-in. the official should blow the play dead and administer the throw-in again from that point.

If Team B is trying to buy time, then not only has the throw-in begun, the five second count has begun, and that ball touching the player out of bounds and returning directly to the court is now a ball in play....... If that ball hits the player out of bounds and touches the floor out of bounds before it touches anything inbounds..... then it is a throw-in violation, and A would get the ball at that spot for a throw-in.....

Clear as mud, eh?
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  #307  
Old 03-19-16, 08:15 PM
bmss17 bmss17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Look Ma No Hands View Post
I could just see the confusion in that scenario. No offense, but I wonder what percent of officials would get that call right. I wonder how many officials would actually count the basket since the foul occurred prior the buzzer.

And if they did the call right, you can hear the clamor... "How can it be a 2 shot foul??? The shot went in!!!"
The basket would have counted. As soon as the foul occurred, the clock stops. Put time back on and shoot the "And 1". There should never be a situation where you shoot FTs with an empty lane because the quarter ends.
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  #308  
Old 03-19-16, 08:45 PM
JElder JElder is offline
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Originally Posted by bmss17 View Post
The basket would have counted. As soon as the foul occurred, the clock stops. Put time back on and shoot the "And 1". There should never be a situation where you shoot FTs with an empty lane because the quarter ends.
The only way to do that is for the official to have definite knowledge of the time when the foul took place.
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  #309  
Old 03-19-16, 08:54 PM
bmss17 bmss17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JElder View Post
The only way to do that is for the official to have definite knowledge of the time when the foul took place.
Agreed, and if you're shooting FTs you have to have definite knowledge there was time left on the clock. In the hypothetical scenario where he makes it, you're either shooting the "And 1" or you're not shooting at all...no way they shoot two FT, nothing in the rule book to support that.
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  #310  
Old 03-19-16, 09:31 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmss17 View Post
Agreed, and if you're shooting FTs you have to have definite knowledge there was time left on the clock. In the hypothetical scenario where he makes it, you're either shooting the "And 1" or you're not shooting at all...no way they shoot two FT, nothing in the rule book to support that.
Case Book Play 5.6.2D would beg to differ....

......and at the high school level and below (we often forget this applies to Jr Hi games as well where new officials are working) this type of situation is not uncommon.

Last edited by AllSports12; 03-19-16 at 09:44 PM.
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  #311  
Old 03-31-16, 08:18 AM
oxat622 oxat622 is offline
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http://deadspin.com/marcelo-huertas-...e-h-1768157074

Legal?
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  #312  
Old 03-31-16, 08:31 AM
oxat622 oxat622 is offline
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A1 is fouled on a shot attempt. He sprains his ankle on his landing and is unable to continue playing. A's head coach subs in A2 to replace A1, but directs A3, who was already on the floor, to take A1's free throws. The referee notifies the head coach that A2 must take the free throws as he replaced A1. The coach says he forgot this rule and wishes to substitute A4 from the bench for A2, as A2 is not a good free throw shooter. Do you grant this substitution?
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  #313  
Old 04-01-16, 05:06 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by oxat622 View Post
On the HS level, a player cannot purposely delay his return to the floor after being legally out of bounds. The penalty is a technical foul.

Can't tell from this clip as we don't know why the player was OOB or if he purposely delayed his return.
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  #314  
Old 04-01-16, 05:13 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxat622 View Post
A1 is fouled on a shot attempt. He sprains his ankle on his landing and is unable to continue playing. A's head coach subs in A2 to replace A1, but directs A3, who was already on the floor, to take A1's free throws. The referee notifies the head coach that A2 must take the free throws as he replaced A1. The coach says he forgot this rule and wishes to substitute A4 from the bench for A2, as A2 is not a good free throw shooter. Do you grant this substitution?
Yes.

However, neither A1 or A2 can re-enter until the ball has become live and the clock has properly run.
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  #315  
Old 04-04-16, 07:13 AM
oxat622 oxat622 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
On the HS level, a player cannot purposely delay his return to the floor after being legally out of bounds. The penalty is a technical foul.

Can't tell from this clip as we don't know why the player was OOB or if he purposely delayed his return.
It looks to me like he meant to go out of bounds during a live ball to hide behind the coach.
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  #316  
Old 04-29-16, 11:07 AM
starktops starktops is offline
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are you telling us that A2 can be subbed out by A4 after checking into the game without a basketball play (FT) or time running. really, that does not sound correct. am I misreading this?
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  #317  
Old 04-29-16, 02:02 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starktops View Post
are you telling us that A2 can be subbed out by A4 after checking into the game without a basketball play (FT) or time running. really, that does not sound correct. am I misreading this?
You are not misreading my response.

A player that has left the game because of a substitution cannot return until the ball has become live and the clock has properly run. (otherwise known as "having to sit a tick")

There are no rules requiring an entering player to remain in the game for a specific period of time.


Rule 3-3-4 - A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his/her replacement.



2006-2007 NFHS Basketball Interpretations

SITUATION 11: A1 is injured during a play in which he/she was fouled. As a result, A1 cannot attempt the awarded free throws. A6 replaces A1 and attempts the free throws, which are successful. Team A then calls a time-out. At the conclusion of the time-out, (a) A1 is ready to play, or (b) A7 replaces A6.

Ruling In (a), A1 may not re-enter the game until the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has properly started. Legal substitution in (b); A6 may leave the game at any time. Substitution restrictions only apply to being withdrawn and attempting to re-enter without the clock properly starting. (8-2; 3-3-4)


NFHS Case Book

3.3.3 SITUATION A: A1 is injured during a play in which A1 has been fouled. As a result, A1 cannot attempt the free throw awarded to him/her. Substitute A6 replaces A1 and attempts the free throw which is successful. Substitute A7 replaces A6 before the clock starts.

RULING: The substitution is legal. (8-2)

Last edited by AllSports12; 04-29-16 at 05:15 PM.
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  #318  
Old 06-08-16, 10:31 PM
jtk jtk is offline
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if a player takes a dribble with a big step into a jump stop with a legal dribble. either foot is still the pivot and he may use either foot as that pivot? seen it called a travel, so just curious? my understanding is that he still has a pivot and on a jump stop, it is either foot.

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  #319  
Old 06-09-16, 06:20 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtk View Post
if a player takes a dribble with a big step into a jump stop with a legal dribble. either foot is still the pivot and he may use either foot as that pivot? seen it called a travel, so just curious? my understanding is that he still has a pivot and on a jump stop, it is either foot.

jtk
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If the ball is gathered with the dribbler still having one foot on the floor, then no pivot is permitted.

If the ball is gathered while the dribbler is airborne and he/she lands on both feet simultaneously, then a pivot foot may be established.
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  #320  
Old 06-09-16, 11:33 PM
jtk jtk is offline
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yes, that was my understanding as well. just some refs, call it differently. thanks for my sanity.

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  #321  
Old 06-18-16, 06:31 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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What is the rule for an inadvertent whistle? Dribbling ball? Pass in the air? Competing for a rebound?
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  #322  
Old 06-20-16, 06:21 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
What is the rule for an inadvertent whistle? Dribbling ball? Pass in the air? Competing for a rebound?
When an IW occurs, the ball is returned to the team that was in control of the ball for designated spot throw in closest to the spot where the ball was when the whistle was blown.

On instances where team control has ended, such as during a rebound of a missed try or when the ball is in the air on a try, the ball awarded to the team using the possession arrow. (designated spot throw in)

If the IW occurs while the ball is in flight for a try, and the try is successful, the goal counts and the opponent then is awarded the ball for a throw in anywhere along the end line.
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  #323  
Old 11-22-16, 12:55 AM
jtk jtk is offline
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how are coaches going to feel about the calling official on a foul going opposite the table?

i know this is how it used to be, but it seems to me that there are going to be a lot of pissed coaches when they don't get an explanation.

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  #324  
Old 11-22-16, 04:39 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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A shot is taken that bounces hard off the rim. The offensive team runs toward the sideline, jumps in the air, and turns to throw the ball back in-bounds. The ball goes in to the back-court and retrieved by the offensive team. Was the grab in the air considered possession of the ball by the offense to make it a back-court violation?
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  #325  
Old 11-24-16, 04:55 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtk View Post
how are coaches going to feel about the calling official on a foul going opposite the table?

i know this is how it used to be, but it seems to me that there are going to be a lot of pissed coaches when they don't get an explanation.

jtk
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Their current complaint, too many T's were the result of officials staying table side after calling the foul.

Right now this is just an Ohio thing, but it will become an NFHS mechanic again in the very near future.
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  #326  
Old 11-24-16, 04:59 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
A shot is taken that bounces hard off the rim. The offensive team runs toward the sideline, jumps in the air, and turns to throw the ball back in-bounds. The ball goes in to the back-court and retrieved by the offensive team. Was the grab in the air considered possession of the ball by the offense to make it a back-court violation?
It's up to the covering official, however, based on what you described, this is a back court violation.
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  #327  
Old 11-25-16, 10:39 AM
yakyak yakyak is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Their current complaint, too many T's were the result of officials staying table side after calling the foul.

Right now this is just an Ohio thing, but it will become an NFHS mechanic again in the very near future.
Can you help me here, I know this is around official physical placement after a foul. But most coaches who are not losing their mind, able to request to speak to the calling official? I know its not required, but most coaches not acting a fool officials will allow a discussion.

Does this change that unofficial discussion from taking place? I.E. the official is just to far away?
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  #328  
Old 11-25-16, 11:46 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by yakyak View Post
Can you help me here, I know this is around official physical placement after a foul. But most coaches who are not losing their mind, able to request to speak to the calling official? I know its not required, but most coaches not acting a fool officials will allow a discussion.

Does this change that unofficial discussion from taking place? I.E. the official is just to far away?
Eventually, they will be back in front of them and the coach will then ask what, why, etc..... Nothing wrong with that, as long as they just move on after they get the answer.

Sometimes, they have already moved on and just coach their team.
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  #329  
Old 12-04-16, 11:40 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Their current complaint, too many T's were the result of officials staying table side after calling the foul.

Right now this is just an Ohio thing, but it will become an NFHS mechanic again in the very near future.
I hate that logic. If they think too many T's are being called, it's either the result of coaches simply not behaving themselves or being poor communicators with officials, or the result of officials being poor communicators with coaches. NBA officials go tableside. WNBA officials go tableside. Women's college officials go tableside. I don't see this problem at those levels. Going opposite the table simply means the coach will either voice his grievances to the official remaining tableside who didn't make the call, or the coach will yell across the court to the calling official.

Is this really going to be an NFHS mechanic? New manuals are published next year, so perhaps Ohio is just a year ahead of the curve. Let me be clear that I'm not anti-going opposite (I work some men's college ball). I simply don't think that it necessarily equates to less T's being called or better behavior from coaches. That being said, if the NFHS also decides to finally allow two-hand reporting, I will happily accept going opposite as the "new" mechanic (even though this was the standard before the current non-Ohio mechanic).
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  #330  
Old 12-04-16, 08:15 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
I hate that logic. If they think too many T's are being called, it's either the result of coaches simply not behaving themselves or being poor communicators with officials, or the result of officials being poor communicators with coaches. NBA officials go tableside. WNBA officials go tableside. Women's college officials go tableside. I don't see this problem at those levels. Going opposite the table simply means the coach will either voice his grievances to the official remaining tableside who didn't make the call, or the coach will yell across the court to the calling official.

Is this really going to be an NFHS mechanic? New manuals are published next year, so perhaps Ohio is just a year ahead of the curve. Let me be clear that I'm not anti-going opposite (I work some men's college ball). I simply don't think that it necessarily equates to less T's being called or better behavior from coaches. That being said, if the NFHS also decides to finally allow two-hand reporting, I will happily accept going opposite as the "new" mechanic (even though this was the standard before the current non-Ohio mechanic).
You are preaching to the choir here, as I agree 100% with you. There have been many times over the years where I either forced a switch because of what was happening on the sidelines..... sometimes to get myself out of there, sometimes to get a partner out of there...... Game Management 101.


As far as the FED goes with changing the mechanic, it's coming. Typically, the FED is a couple of years behind NCAA. That was the norm when Struckoff was the editor of the rules (college ties) and it has continued since she has moved on.
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