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  #91  
Old 01-11-17, 01:45 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
LOTR
Why? If ever there was a state that could supply a long line of players to a walk on program it's Ohio. I'm just asking whether the Bucs are fully exploiting the opportunity here in Ohio for landing walk on kids. Maybe they already are and this discussion is a moot point. But when was the last time a walk on made an impact as a skilled offensive player at Ohio State?

Hey it's the off season and this seems like a legit topic to shoot the breeze about. BTW, we're all quick to throw Barrett under the bus but some of the blame for a lack of production in the Bucs downfield passing game can be laid at the feet of all those 4 & 5 star WR recruits. It's not like they're getting open all the time. Fair is fair.
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  #92  
Old 01-11-17, 01:49 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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How often do walk-ons make an impact at a top 10 team as a skilled player anywhere?? This is not something OSU is an outlier on. It just doesn't happen often because these kids rarely end up having the talent needed to perform. It's pretty simple.
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  #93  
Old 01-11-17, 01:55 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Next year Ohio State has a very favorable schedule.


Look for them to be undefeated for the game against Michigan.
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  #94  
Old 01-11-17, 01:56 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
To the first part... absolutely you could. There are a few guys every year that make an impact as a walk-on. No one is debating this, but the odds of hitting on a walk are much, much less than the odds on hitting on a 4 or 5 star guy are.

^^That also addressed your second statement. sure, some time should be dedicated to walk ons. Pretty sure I saw a tweet that walk-on try outs at OSU are sometime this week. But why would they spend a lot of time/resources on walk-ons when they have a MUCH higher probability of finding impact guys within the scholarship athletes? It just makes no sense, man. If you think that's the key area where they need to improve.... I am seriously at a loss. Does Alabama have the best "walk-on program?"
Excuse me but I mistook the title of this thread to mean it would function sort of like a "hot stove" league discussion where we talk all things Ohio State during the dull days of winter.

BTW, I'm not advocating that they spend a "lot of time/resources on walk-ons" I'm asking whether Ohio State is doing enough. I've also made it clear that overall Meyer & company have recruited very well as evidenced by the NFL draft.

The reason I bring it up is that the National Title game just featured a walk on kid that was one of the main components of Clemson's victory. I asked a simple question of whether this kid would have even had the opportunity to compete for a spot on Ohio State. I still believe it's a fair question.

You seem awfully quick to throw the topic away.
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  #95  
Old 01-11-17, 01:59 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Given OSU had a walk on contribute for much of the year: yeah, I'd have to guess he would have been given the opportunity to compete for a spot at OSU.
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  #96  
Old 01-11-17, 02:01 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
Lattimore on to the NFL. Good decision as he will likely be a first round pick.
Yes, it was a good call on his part. A damn shame we only got to watch he and Hooker play for one year though.


Chances Hooker and/or Lattimore go ahead of Peppers in the draft?
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  #97  
Old 01-11-17, 02:02 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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You're acting like because one former walk-on has had a big role on a title contender that they know something everyone else doesn't. They got lucky. They found a diamond in the rough. OSU could do the same some day, but there's no special recipe for it.

IMO, it's something that on a scale of 1-10, could have an impact of about 1 on the team/program as a whole. Not worth OSU's time to do more than they already do.
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  #98  
Old 01-11-17, 02:03 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
How often do walk-ons make an impact at a top 10 team as a skilled player anywhere?? This is not something OSU is an outlier on. It just doesn't happen often because these kids rarely end up having the talent needed to perform. It's pretty simple.
here's a few walk on guys that have gone on to the NFL and are having a big impact. A couple of hall of Famers on the list:

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000485296

Of course a walk on is a long shot and a program has to be judicious in how much they put into any effort involving walk on players. But, when a program has pretensions of winning a national title EVERY year and has ample resources at it's disposal, running an aggressive walk on program seems to make sense as a way to identify that diamond in the rough recruit that their standard methodology would miss.
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  #99  
Old 01-11-17, 02:04 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
A damn shame we only got to watch he and Hooker play for one year though.
No doubt.
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  #100  
Old 01-11-17, 02:05 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
here's a few walk on guys that have gone on to the NFL and are having a big impact. A couple of hall of Famers on the list:

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000485296
Out of 10 million walk ons ever? I don't know how to quantify that. Have you even been reading my posts? Walk-ons routinely make an impact each year across the country, I noted that.
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  #101  
Old 01-11-17, 02:06 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
You're acting like because one former walk-on has had a big role on a title contender that they know something everyone else doesn't. They got lucky. They found a diamond in the rough. OSU could do the same some day, but there's no special recipe for it.

IMO, it's something that on a scale of 1-10, could have an impact of about 1 on the team/program as a whole. Not worth OSU's time to do more than they already do.
It's not as rare as you think. And I'm not saying Clemson does it better than everyone else, though the video I posted is cool and would be an effective tool to induce other talented walk on kids to give the Tigers a shot. And sure, Clemson may have simply got lucky. I'm open to that possibility.
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  #102  
Old 01-11-17, 02:07 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Let's just agree to disagree. I don't care at all how they run their "walk-on program" in future years. However they see fit is ok with me.

Last edited by WinstonSmith; 01-11-17 at 02:18 PM..
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  #103  
Old 01-11-17, 02:15 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Why? If ever there was a state that could supply a long line of players to a walk on program it's Ohio. I'm just asking whether the Bucs are fully exploiting the opportunity here in Ohio for landing walk on kids. Maybe they already are and this discussion is a moot point. But when was the last time a walk on made an impact as a skilled offensive player at Ohio State?

Hey it's the off season and this seems like a legit topic to shoot the breeze about. BTW, we're all quick to throw Barrett under the bus but some of the blame for a lack of production in the Bucs downfield passing game can be laid at the feet of all those 4 & 5 star WR recruits. It's not like they're getting open all the time. Fair is fair.
I'm laughing at your notion of Clemson withholding offering scholarships to 5* football players so they can save it for a walk on.

Of the 32 5*s in 2013 the following are or will be in the NFL:
Alex Alzalone
Fendall Fuller
Vonn Bell
LaQuon Treadwell
AShawn Robinson
Carl Lawson
OJ Howard
Robert Nkemdiche
Chris Jones
Laremy Tunsil
Vernon Hargreaves
Jaylon Smith
Eddie Vanderdoes
Christian Hackenberg
Dorian Johnson
Tre'Davious White
Montravius Adams
Jonathan Allen
Derrick Henry
Reuben Foster
Sua Cravens
Alex Collins
Kelvin Taylor
Ricky Seals Jones

24/32.
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  #104  
Old 01-11-17, 02:19 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
Out of 10 million walk ons ever? I don't know how to quantify that. Have you even been reading my posts? Walk-ons routinely make an impact each year across the country, I noted that.
10,000,000 walk on kids? Are you sure about that number?

All I'm asking is where do the Bucs stack up in terms of successfully recruiting and identifying walk on prospects. It's not enough though to recruit them you also have to have a staff willing to be open minded about the kids, especially at certain positions.

We've been throwing out all sorts of excuses as to why Ohio State got hammered in the playoff game and why they didn't even make the playoffs last season:

* we've blamed the offensive coaches

* we've blamed the play calling

* we've blamed Barret and his throwing skills

So I'll repeat my original question "would a walk on like Hunter Renfro even see the Ohio State practice field"? If the answer is YES, than great! If the answer is NO, then why not?
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  #105  
Old 01-11-17, 02:25 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
Given OSU had a walk on contribute for much of the year: yeah, I'd have to guess he would have been given the opportunity to compete for a spot at OSU.
I'll just repost this. Mind you, Winston already brought up Burger earlier.
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  #106  
Old 01-11-17, 02:32 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
I'm laughing at your notion of Clemson withholding offering scholarships to 5* football players so they can save it for a walk on.

Of the 32 5*s in 2013 the following are or will be in the NFL:
Alex Alzalone
Fendall Fuller
Vonn Bell
LaQuon Treadwell
AShawn Robinson
Carl Lawson
OJ Howard
Robert Nkemdiche
Chris Jones
Laremy Tunsil
Vernon Hargreaves
Jaylon Smith
Eddie Vanderdoes
Christian Hackenberg
Dorian Johnson
Tre'Davious White
Montravius Adams
Jonathan Allen
Derrick Henry
Reuben Foster
Sua Cravens
Alex Collins
Kelvin Taylor
Ricky Seals Jones

24/32.
I've never said that 5 Star recruits wouldn't be a richer source of talent than walk on kids. Of course they are and yes you build your program into elite status by signing 4 & 5 star recruits. But there is a grey area where walk on and 2 Star recruits can have a big effect. And to maximize your chances of winning a title you need to be good at recruiting the 2 star & walk on kids to.

What I'm saying is once you get to the elite 10 teams in college football the difference between a national champion and the other 9 teams is very thin. All the elite programs are successful at getting 4 & 5 star kids out of high school. I'm just throwing out the possibility that while the 4 & 5 Star recruits get you 95% of the way to a championship maybe the walk on kid is the difference in the last couple of percentage points.

As an aside we can all produce NFL lists and any list that has former walk on players like Clay Mathews, Jordy Nelson, Antonio Brown & JJ Watt attests to the elite talent that can be found among walk-ons.
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  #107  
Old 01-11-17, 02:37 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
Let's just agree to disagree. I don't care at all how they run their "walk-on program" in future years. However they see fit is ok with me.
Fair enough.

But I suspect that Meyer is asking the question I'm asking because he strikes me as a man who wants to embrace every advantage for his football program that he can. I think he is driven by the attitude of "we can always improve" and he relentlessly looks for ways to improve. And it would make sense for him to throw the question about a guy like "Renfro" out to his offensive and skill player coaches.
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  #108  
Old 01-11-17, 02:41 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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JJ Watt started off his college career as a scholarship player. Antonio Brown got a scholarship his first week at Central Michigan. Both aren't great examples. I'm not sure what you're advocating. Are you suggesting Urban Meyer, Dabo Swinney and Nick Saban withold a scholarship from a 5* player and throw it out to a random 2* instead of offering them a walk on position because he might end up as the next Jordy Nelson, a guy who never played WR in his life until his sophomore year of college?
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  #109  
Old 01-11-17, 02:42 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Teams wont withhold a scholly from 5* players for a possible walk on.

If a walk on is so great they likely let him on the team for that year, and give a scholly that next year when they become available.
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  #110  
Old 01-11-17, 02:45 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Chances Hooker and/or Lattimore go ahead of Peppers in the draft?
They could. it will depend on their combine performances but IMO either one would be a better pick than Peppers.

As a Bills fan there have been a couple of mock drafts showing Buffalo taking Peppers with the 10th pick and for sure the Bills will have an acute need for defensive backs (especially safety's) next year. IMO if the Bill's really are considering taking Peppers with the 10th pick they would be better served to trade down and take either Lattimore or Hooker. They could get a couple of extra draft picks and land a better DB prospect.
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  #111  
Old 01-11-17, 02:56 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
JJ Watt started off his college career as a scholarship player. Antonio Brown got a scholarship his first week at Central Michigan. Both aren't great examples. I'm not sure what you're advocating. Are you suggesting Urban Meyer, Dabo Swinney and Nick Saban withold a scholarship from a 5* player and throw it out to a random 2* instead of offering them a walk on position because he might end up as the next Jordy Nelson, a guy who never played WR in his life until his sophomore year of college?
Watt, a 2 star recruit, got a scholarship from a MAC school and turned it down for a chance to walk on at Wisconsin, his home state. Besides the question of why Whisky didn't offer a home state kid like Watt a scholarship I would argue that the goal of an outstanding walk on program is to convince kids like Watt that have offers from "lesser" schools to take a chance at walking on at their school. Now that's the ultimate Walk On and maybe Ohio State is already doing this to the best of their abilities.

As for Brown, again a great Walk On program will attract a guy whose skills are so apparent that the coaches award him a scholarship within a short time of seeing him compete in training camp.
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  #112  
Old 01-11-17, 03:00 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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How do you know both Watt and Brown weren't offered walk on spots? I'm still not sure what you're advocating, especially the whole "Clemson is gonna withhold scholarships from 4 and 5* players" bit.
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  #113  
Old 01-11-17, 03:03 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Teams wont withhold a scholly from 5* players for a possible walk on.

If a walk on is so great they likely let him on the team for that year, and give a scholly that next year when they become available.
I plead guilty to overstating things with my 5 Star quote but what about my question - "would a guy like Hunter Renfro get a shot at competing for an offensive skill position at Ohio State as a walk on?"

As a Red Shirt freshman he started for Clemson at receiver in the 2015 championship game. That's a very rapid rise from walk on to starting receiver. Is such a rise even possible at OSU? I'm asking out of curiosity.
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  #114  
Old 01-11-17, 03:09 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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How do you know both Watt and Brown weren't offered walk on spots? I'm still not sure what you're advocating, especially the whole "Clemson is gonna withhold scholarships from 4 and 5* players" bit.
I'm not advocating anything. I'm asking a simple question and the response to the question has been interesting in it's own right.

I haven't thought much about Ohio States walk on program beyond the little bit I've seen in the media over the years. And yes I'm aware of the Joe Burger story as he's a local player from the Cincinnati area. But after I saw the Clemson video I thought "wow that was cool I wonder how Ohio State handles their walk ons?".
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  #115  
Old 01-11-17, 03:27 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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And Joe Burger is the answer. Why do you keep asking "would a guy like Hunter Renfro get a shot at competing for an offensive skill position at Ohio State as a walk on?" when OSU has shown that if a walk on can play, he will play?
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  #116  
Old 01-11-17, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
Lattimore on to the NFL. Good decision as he will likely be a first round pick.
I'm more skeptical on Lattimore versus Hooker & Conley. It's insane that all three might go in the first round.

It really goes to show you the dearth of talent in the NFL right now such that they're totally desperate to get these underclassmen guys.
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  #117  
Old 01-11-17, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
And Joe Burger is the answer. Why do you keep asking "would a guy like Hunter Renfro get a shot at competing for an offensive skill position at Ohio State as a walk on?" when OSU has shown that if a walk on can play, he will play?
To be clear I wonder if there is a difference between how Ohio State (and others) view skill position walk ons (like QB's, receivers & RBs) versus LB's & lineman? I suspect the position coach is critical for a walk on to even have a chance at showing what he can do at certain positions. Take Wisconsin's undersized (5 feet 9 on his tip toes) starting safety Leo Musso (preferred walk on with a "promise" of a scholarship after his freshman year) who is coached by Jim Leonhard. The fact that Leonard was also an undersized walk on at Whisky as a safety and went on to a 10 year NFL career (undrafted free agent signing by the Bills) probably had a lot to do with giving this kid a chance.

Also as Cabe noted the camps are where the elite athletes competing for an opportunity to play a skill position can shine and if they have the measurables they are going to get offers. A kid like Renfro, if he's even invited to a camp, isn't going to have the measurables to even get a look at by most teams. Heck the guy looks like he could get bullied by the Chess Team.
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  #118  
Old 01-11-17, 08:04 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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I couldn't see Renfrow ever getting the opportunity to play meaningful snaps at Ohio State, but not really because of any walk on policy. More because of how few guys we can get the ball to. Dontre Wilson could have been a better version of Renfrow for us IMO but we don't have the offensive coaching and QB play they have
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  #119  
Old 01-16-17, 02:24 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Good article on Kevin Wilson, schematically, from Eleven Warriors

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-s...r-kevin-wilson
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  #120  
Old 01-17-17, 02:31 PM
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Is there a chance that Eric Glover-Williams could see some time on the offensive side of the ball next year?
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