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  #1  
Old 09-18-17, 09:51 AM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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Out of state meets

What is the rule for cross country in Ohio in competing in meets out of state, or are there?
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  #2  
Old 09-18-17, 10:03 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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I thought you were only allowed one out of state trip per season.
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Old 09-18-17, 10:15 AM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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I thought I heard that. I also thought I heard you could only go to adjoining states. Is this true?
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Old 09-18-17, 10:22 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatornation View Post
I thought I heard that. I also thought I heard you could only go to adjoining states. Is this true?
I know of schools in other sports that went to games in states that did not abut Ohio. I'm not sure why XC would be different.
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  #5  
Old 09-18-17, 10:41 AM
simkon simkon is offline
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Here is the rule for most sports
You are allowed to go out of state once per year the states you could possibly go to are Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ontario Canada. Depending on where you are located would limit which state you can go to, so a school in Cincy would not be able to go to Pennsylvania or a school in Youngstown would not be able to go to Kentucky. This is because you must be able to travel to the competition and return within 12 hours.
For a few sports, football and baseball are such sports, you can go out of state anywhere in the continental US (48 States) or Canada, you may not miss any school though. If school is in session you must be able to go to the competition, compete and return within 12 hours. This would count as your one competition out of state. Generally any competitions (ie football games, baseball tournaments) that take place out of state in a non-bordering state either take place the week before school starts for football or during Spring or Easter break for baseball.

An exception for schools in counties that border other states, schools may compete against any school that in an adjoining county to their county even if it is in another state so long as no school is missed. There is a limit on either the mileage or drive time though I can't find it at the moment.

School-sponsored teams and individuals may not travel out of state for practices, scrimmages or non-official contests.
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Old 09-18-17, 10:50 AM
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BYLAW 9 — CONTESTS REQUIRING SPECIAL ATTENTION

Section 1. Contests with Non-Member Schools and Non-Interscholastic Teams

9-1-1 Members of the Association shall observe all Ohio eligibility and contest rules in contests with nonmember and non-interscholastic teams.

Section 2. Contests with Out-Of-State Schools

9-2-1 Schools may travel out of state to compete in contests in states or provinces in Canada that are contiguous to Ohio regardless of distance to travel. The states include Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania and West Virginia. The province includes Ontario. Additionally, schools may travel out of state one time per sport per interscholastic season to compete in contests in states or provinces in Canada that are not contiguous to Ohio provided there is no loss of school time. “School time” is defined as any time during any day during which the school is in session as stipulated in its Board adopted school calendar exclusive of contingency days. Penalty for violation: The school shall be ineligible for the OHSAA postseason tournament in the sport in which the out-of-state travel was involved and could be subject to additional penalties as referenced in Bylaw 11.

EXCEPTION: If, because of missed school days due to calamity situations, an otherwise nonschool day(s) becomes a school day(s) in order to make up for the missed school day(s), the school may compete in a contest(s) outside the state of Ohio provided:

1) The school had contracted for/committed to said trip/contest(s) at least three months prior to the contest(s) in question and;

2) The school receives written permission from the Executive Director’s office at least one week in advance of the scheduled event.

9-2-2 School-sponsored teams and individuals may not travel out of state for practice purposes.

EXCEPTION 1: If the school’s normal practice and/or competitive facility is located out of state, the school shall be permitted to practice/compete at that facility. Note: In all other cases, the Executive Director may grant permission to practice out of state in rare or limited circumstances. The principal shall request this permission from the Executive Director’s office in writing.

EXCEPTION 2: If the school is traveling outside the boundaries of the states/Province contiguous to Ohio for the one-time per season competition opportunity, the school squad may also practice during that journey. This provision is made provided there is no loss of school time and provided the squad is engaged in allowable competition as stipulated in that sport’s regulations.

9-2-3 Schools must secure sanction through the National Federation of State High School Associations of competition by a member school in any of the following contests:

(a) Any interstate tournament or meet in which four or more schools participate;

(b) Any interstate competition which involves schools from three or more state high school associations.

In (a) and (b) above, no sanction is required from the National Federation if all competing schools are from states which border the host state. However, schools must secure from each state associationsanction for such events.

9-2-4 In all interstate contests, each participating school shall follow the contest rules of the host state.


http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/About...SAA/Bylaws.pdf
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Old 09-18-17, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simkon View Post
Here is the rule for most sports
You are allowed to go out of state once per year the states you could possibly go to are Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ontario Canada. Depending on where you are located would limit which state you can go to, so a school in Cincy would not be able to go to Pennsylvania or a school in Youngstown would not be able to go to Kentucky. This is because you must be able to travel to the competition and return within 12 hours.
For a few sports, football and baseball are such sports, you can go out of state anywhere in the continental US (48 States) or Canada, you may not miss any school though. If school is in session you must be able to go to the competition, compete and return within 12 hours. This would count as your one competition out of state. Generally any competitions (ie football games, baseball tournaments) that take place out of state in a non-bordering state either take place the week before school starts for football or during Spring or Easter break for baseball.

An exception for schools in counties that border other states, schools may compete against any school that in an adjoining county to their county even if it is in another state so long as no school is missed. There is a limit on either the mileage or drive time though I can't find it at the moment.

School-sponsored teams and individuals may not travel out of state for practices, scrimmages or non-official contests.
That is not true. Individual school districts may place such limitations, but it is not a limitation placed by the OHSAA. I know of some financially strapped school districts that might not allow any competition that takes place more than 50 miles away from the school.

Additionally, any sport is allowed 1 trip to a non-contiguous state or province provided no school time is missed.
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  #8  
Old 09-18-17, 10:58 AM
simkon simkon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
I know of schools in other sports that went to games in states that did not abut Ohio. I'm not sure why XC would be different.
I am not sure if cross country is included with football and baseball and the others but if it was...
The only opportunity for a cross country team to have a meet in a non-adjoining state or province would be before school starts so for this year 8/19 would probably be the last day many schools could do it if they start 8/21. If they did not start until 8/28 that would give them one more week to work with if they wanted to go far away. Because once school starts you would have the 12 hour rule come into effect. So presumably for boys and girls to run would take about 2 hours that would give you only 5 hours each way to drive. So it would likely be hard to drive to a non-adjoining state in only 5 hours.

Also of note is there is no rule for time for in state competition but the rule for missing school still applies.
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  #9  
Old 09-18-17, 11:10 AM
simkon simkon is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
That is not true. Individual school districts may place such limitations, but it is not a limitation placed by the OHSAA. I know of some financially strapped school districts that might not allow any competition that takes place more than 50 miles away from the school.

Additionally, any sport is allowed 1 trip to a non-contiguous state or province provided no school time is missed.
Those new bylaws do not read the same as a hard copy I have from about 10-15 years ago. I didn't realize they changed the policy. In the old bylaws they make mention of a 12 hour rule on several occasions. And they also do not say it applies to all sports as far as the one trip to a non-adjoining state or province. And the 12 hour rule would let you travel probably at least 300 miles by bus (figure 60mph), maybe 350 by van/car (figure 70mph) (700 round trip).

Well at least we know what the new bylaws are now, I didn't think to look them up online.
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Old 09-18-17, 11:14 AM
Percidae Percidae is offline
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Where is this 12 hour rule you reference?

So are you saying a school from the Cleveland area would now be ineligible for post season for having participated at Trinity this past Saturday?
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Old 09-18-17, 11:15 AM
Percidae Percidae is offline
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Where is this 12 hour rule you reference?

So are you saying a school from the Cleveland area would now be ineligible for post season for having participated at Trinity this past Saturday?
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  #12  
Old 09-18-17, 11:16 AM
simkon simkon is offline
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Originally Posted by Percidae View Post
Where is this 12 hour rule you reference?
Mr. Slippery cleared it up, it is apparently no longer in the bylaws, it was 10 or 15 years ago, whatever year my hard copy was from.
Another thing that is different is the new bylaws have rules on transgender students... go figure
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  #13  
Old 09-18-17, 11:29 AM
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The big things to remember:

1) You can compete in any contiguous state and Ontario as much as you like.

2) You can go to a non-contiguous state or province once per season as long as no school time is missed.

3) Practice out of state is not allowed unless part of an out-of-state trip for competition or unless your team's normal practice site is out of state. That's important to know because if you wanted to take my team to an XC camp out of state, you wouldn't be able to do it. Back in the '70s, a local coach did his team camp at Indiana Dunes SP. We thought about going there my freshman year of HS but did not (no idea what the bylaws looked like in '95).

4) When in doubt on any bylaw (especially the ones regarding transfers and eligiblity), have your AD contact the OHSAA to get an official ruling.
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  #14  
Old 09-18-17, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simkon View Post
Those new bylaws do not read the same as a hard copy I have from about 10-15 years ago. I didn't realize they changed the policy. In the old bylaws they make mention of a 12 hour rule on several occasions. And they also do not say it applies to all sports as far as the one trip to a non-adjoining state or province. And the 12 hour rule would let you travel probably at least 300 miles by bus (figure 60mph), maybe 350 by van/car (figure 70mph) (700 round trip).

Well at least we know what the new bylaws are now, I didn't think to look them up online.
Michigan has an unusual rule about not being allowed to compete against other schools if those schools are located more than 300 miles away from the competition site, so for track and XC, they currently cannot attend any of the national level meets.

In an attempt to accommodate some Michigan schools, Carroll HS only invites schools to its Midwest All-Catholic Meet that are located within 300 miles of Indian Riffle Park.
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Old 09-18-17, 12:02 PM
LoveCrossCountry LoveCrossCountry is offline
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So, I guess individuals have a different rule then? What if you qualify for NB Indoor Nationals in track or Footlocker in CC? Those are way out of state and you can't go, compete, get back in 12 hours and not miss any school (especially at NB Indoor Nationals where some races are on Friday).
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Old 09-18-17, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveCrossCountry View Post
So, I guess individuals have a different rule then? What if you qualify for NB Indoor Nationals in track or Footlocker in CC? Those are way out of state and you can't go, compete, get back in 12 hours and not miss any school (especially at NB Indoor Nationals where some races are on Friday).
Read the bylaws I posted. There is no 12-hour rule anymore. Also, I don't think the rule is enforced too strictly. It's just there for looks, IMHO, so that the OHSAA can say that the kids' opportunity to receive an education is still their top concern.

I'd be naive to think that some of the competitors that travel outside of the contiguous region are not missing school time in order to get a particular flight, make a long drive, or whatever the case might be.
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Old 09-18-17, 12:08 PM
LoveCrossCountry LoveCrossCountry is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Read the bylaws I posted. There is no 12-hour rule anymore. Also, I don't think the rule is enforced too strictly. It's just there for looks, IMHO.
Ah. Ok. Thanks.
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  #18  
Old 09-18-17, 12:38 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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After some further reading at the time the bylaws are from I found out that the only sports permitted to travel to a non adjacent state or Ontario was football, baseball (baseball allowed for competition in one tournament so long as no school was missed) and the one oddity was boys tennis there is no mention of it anywhere so not sure if that was an oversight or not.

Mr. Slippery do you know if boys tennis formerly was not under the OHSAA? I do not see anything on the OHSAA website about boys tennis from before 1999.

So basically with the exception of those three sports, at the time these by laws are from all other sports were limited to just one out of state contest per year only in a bordering state and they must be able to return within 12 hours. Compared to now all sports can travel out of state once per year to a non-adjacent state and you can travel unlimited times to adjacent states.

My bylaws appear to be from the late 90's so regarding your question on going to Indiana for camp this is the line verbatim from the bylaws I have.
Quote:
School-sponsored teams and individuals may not travel out of state for practices, scrimmages or non-official contests.
The only exception listed is if the normal facility is across the state line but within 20 minutes of the school. So that is similar but not exactly the same as the current exception.

It would probably be interesting to see the evolution of the bylaws over the years.
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Old 09-18-17, 01:07 PM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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Postseason is not under the same rules because Xc and track seasons end with the State Meet.
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Old 09-18-17, 01:44 PM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Indian Hill, Beavercreek & Sandusky St. Mary Central Catholic are running at a meet in Orlando, Florida on Friday, Oct. 6.

Link
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  #21  
Old 09-18-17, 04:43 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Also, I don't think the rule is enforced too strictly. It's just there for looks, IMHO, so that the OHSAA can say that the kids' opportunity to receive an education is still their top concern.
If this isn't being enforced, it's only because nobody has complained about a school's schedule to the AA.
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Old 09-18-17, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
The big things to remember:

1) You can compete in any contiguous state and Ontario as much as you like.

2) You can go to a non-contiguous state or province once per season as long as no school time is missed.

3) Practice out of state is not allowed unless part of an out-of-state trip for competition or unless your team's normal practice site is out of state. That's important to know because if you wanted to take my team to an XC camp out of state, you wouldn't be able to do it. Back in the '70s, a local coach did his team camp at Indiana Dunes SP. We thought about going there my freshman year of HS but did not (no idea what the bylaws looked like in '95).

4) When in doubt on any bylaw (especially the ones regarding transfers and eligiblity), have your AD contact the OHSAA to get an official ruling.
Per point #3, I'm not sure that's true in terms of camp being out of state. The season is defined as starting on August 1st and therefore a voluntary camp outside of that time frame may still be fair game. Not 100% sure on that but it's a gray area.
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  #23  
Old 09-18-17, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simkon View Post
After some further reading at the time the bylaws are from I found out that the only sports permitted to travel to a non adjacent state or Ontario was football, baseball (baseball allowed for competition in one tournament so long as no school was missed) and the one oddity was boys tennis there is no mention of it anywhere so not sure if that was an oversight or not.

Mr. Slippery do you know if boys tennis formerly was not under the OHSAA? I do not see anything on the OHSAA website about boys tennis from before 1999.

So basically with the exception of those three sports, at the time these by laws are from all other sports were limited to just one out of state contest per year only in a bordering state and they must be able to return within 12 hours. Compared to now all sports can travel out of state once per year to a non-adjacent state and you can travel unlimited times to adjacent states.

My bylaws appear to be from the late 90's so regarding your question on going to Indiana for camp this is the line verbatim from the bylaws I have.

The only exception listed is if the normal facility is across the state line but within 20 minutes of the school. So that is similar but not exactly the same as the current exception.

It would probably be interesting to see the evolution of the bylaws over the years.
Tennis was definitely an OHSAA sport before 1999. My school had individual boys state champions in 1984, 1991, and 1992. The tournament was sanctioned by the OHSAA.
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  #24  
Old 09-18-17, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SOTT View Post
Per point #3, I'm not sure that's true in terms of camp being out of state. The season is defined as starting on August 1st and therefore a voluntary camp outside of that time frame may still be fair game. Not 100% sure on that but it's a gray area.
Key word being "voluntary." I'd assume most teams hold their camps after the mandatory practice window opens on August 1. My team probably wouldn't be in good enough shape to make it worth holding a team camp before that date.
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Old 09-18-17, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Key word being "voluntary." I'd assume most teams hold their camps after the mandatory practice window opens on August 1. My team probably wouldn't be in good enough shape to make it worth holding a team camp before that date.
Agreed. Although we approach team camp more as a bonding opportunity and a chance to set common team goals and expectations than we do as as time to hammer. We've done both before August 1st as well as after and got a lot out of it either way. Ron Martin runs a great camp, the "Team Camp of Champs" and seasons start in late July. I'd encourage anyone to contact him and inquire if you're interested in getting in.
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Old 09-19-17, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveCrossCountry View Post
So, I guess individuals have a different rule then? What if you qualify for NB Indoor Nationals in track or Footlocker in CC? Those are way out of state and you can't go, compete, get back in 12 hours and not miss any school (especially at NB Indoor Nationals where some races are on Friday).
Indoor isn't an OHSAA sport. I believe it'd come down to what the school policy is.
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