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  #31  
Old 01-31-18, 10:43 AM
MC12 MC12 is offline
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Heard this morning that he was trying to recruit an 8th grader from Waynedale and got a slap on the wrist by Admin a couple months ago. Nothing that Orrville hasn't done for years in my opinion.

Was told this had nothing to do with him leaving. Admin wanted him to stay, but working at his current job, not in the district.
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  #32  
Old 01-31-18, 10:44 AM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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Not sure the bachelor's degree comment was to degrade

I think it has to do more with the ability to hire a person without a teaching license.

A bachelors degree will qualify a person for more positions. More wiggle room so to speak such as a long term sub or district substitute.

No dog in the fight - just read the thread and didn't think it was a derogatory attack.
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  #33  
Old 01-31-18, 10:48 AM
MC12 MC12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
Not sure the bachelor's degree comment was to degrade

I think it has to do more with the ability to hire a person without a teaching license.

A bachelors degree will qualify a person for more positions. More wiggle room so to speak such as a long term sub or district substitute.

No dog in the fight - just read the thread and didn't think it was a derogatory attack.
That is how I read it. Wharton was explaining that it was tough to get him in. I'm telling you, all I keep hearing is that both sides were in line and they were disappointed he decided to leave.
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  #34  
Old 01-31-18, 10:50 AM
lightspeed84 lightspeed84 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
Not sure the bachelor's degree comment was to degrade

I think it has to do more with the ability to hire a person without a teaching license.

A bachelors degree will qualify a person for more positions. More wiggle room so to speak such as a long term sub or district substitute.

No dog in the fight - just read the thread and didn't think it was a derogatory attack.
what I was thinking, I have no dog in this fight either.
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  #35  
Old 01-31-18, 10:53 AM
ArmChairCoach ArmChairCoach is offline
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Lmao no it doesnít. How many college students do it cause mommy and daddy made them stay? Discipline? How many college students go out and get drunk nights prior to class and then skip class? Intelligence there is a big difference between being Book smart and knowing football. Think Lebron has to know calculus or heck even how to structure a sentence to be one of the best players ever in basketball? No.

Now I do agree a bachelors would give more wiggle room with hiring a teacher and a football coach, but wasnít he hired just as a head football coach?

No dog in the fight but just was getting annoyed with everyone bashing non- bachelor degree people.
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  #36  
Old 01-31-18, 10:57 AM
styx styx is offline
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Originally Posted by ArmChairCoach View Post
Are you serious? There are a lot of good people out there who are very successful with only GEDís. What does having a bachelors today prove?
Nothing against the trades, but if you're working in education, it might help to be educated.
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  #37  
Old 01-31-18, 10:59 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
Not sure the bachelor's degree comment was to degrade

I think it has to do more with the ability to hire a person without a teaching license.

A bachelors degree will qualify a person for more positions. More wiggle room so to speak such as a long term sub or district substitute.

No dog in the fight - just read the thread and didn't think it was a derogatory attack.
Agree. This goes with my earlier comment. You want to work in the school districts, you typically need a degree. What does he expect? There isn't much work to be done in school districts that don't require a degree outside of the secretaries, maintenance, and some aide positions. Ad's don't have the requirement, but more and more schools are using that position to fill in as assistant principal types. Look at most the listings. They would like a principal licensure if possible.
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  #38  
Old 01-31-18, 11:02 AM
ArmChairCoach ArmChairCoach is offline
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Originally Posted by styx View Post
Nothing against the trades, but if you're working in education, it might help to be educated.
Lol getting a bachelors degree doesnít mean youíre educated. And to assume anyone working in the trades is just plain arrogant.
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  #39  
Old 01-31-18, 11:03 AM
guyinahoodie guyinahoodie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmChairCoach View Post
Lmao no it doesnít. How many college students do it cause mommy and daddy made them stay? Discipline? How many college students go out and get drunk nights prior to class and then skip class? Intelligence there is a big difference between being Book smart and knowing football. Think Lebron has to know calculus or heck even how to structure a sentence to be one of the best players ever in basketball? No.

Now I do agree a bachelors would give more wiggle room with hiring a teacher and a football coach, but wasnít he hired just as a head football coach?

No dog in the fight but just was getting annoyed with everyone bashing non- bachelor degree people.
Thanks for your opinion Coach, good luck on your job search!
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  #40  
Old 01-31-18, 11:08 AM
guyinahoodie guyinahoodie is offline
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Originally Posted by ArmChairCoach View Post
Lol getting a bachelors degree doesnít mean youíre educated. And to assume anyone working in the trades is just plain arrogant.

That's exactly what it means...and it proves you have the necessary discipline. I've never heard of a HFC without one!!
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  #41  
Old 01-31-18, 11:35 AM
yipyap yipyap is offline
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Sometimes it happens. Sometimes a coach from another school with a degree takes a job when there are no openings in the school and he continues to teach where he was.. happens often. Also, retired coaches come back and take jobs because there are no openings and they have outstanding records.in cases like this the school does not have to worry about how many years to give the coach. He is retired.
I also thought there was a rule, loose wording, that if a person was coaching outside the school and someone inside the school wanted it they would have first choice. Anyone know if that is true?
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  #42  
Old 01-31-18, 11:47 AM
lightspeed84 lightspeed84 is offline
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Originally Posted by yipyap View Post
Sometimes it happens. Sometimes a coach from another school with a degree takes a job when there are no openings in the school and he continues to teach where he was.. happens often. Also, retired coaches come back and take jobs because there are no openings and they have outstanding records.in cases like this the school does not have to worry about how many years to give the coach. He is retired.
I also thought there was a rule, loose wording, that if a person was coaching outside the school and someone inside the school wanted it they would have first choice. Anyone know if that is true?
Depends on the schools Union agreements. Some schools have clauses some don't. Its typically better if the school doesnt have a clause that mandates if an in-house teacher wants the job, he gets it. I was told at Glenville years ago, a teacher received a football stipend and never coached a down and Ginn had to find funding to pay his assistance somewhere else. The teacher found a clause in the union contract, demanded that he wanted to coach knowing that Ginn would not allow it and basically got free money. I don't think this could ever happen today because OHSAA has put a limit on paid assistants and volunteers. If I am wrong please correct me, this was all things I was told through the coaching circle years ago.
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  #43  
Old 01-31-18, 12:27 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmChairCoach View Post
Lmao no it doesn’t. How many college students do it cause mommy and daddy made them stay? Discipline? How many college students go out and get drunk nights prior to class and then skip class? Intelligence there is a big difference between being Book smart and knowing football. Think Lebron has to know calculus or heck even how to structure a sentence to be one of the best players ever in basketball? No.

Now I do agree a bachelors would give more wiggle room with hiring a teacher and a football coach, but wasn’t he hired just as a head football coach?

No dog in the fight but just was getting annoyed with everyone bashing non- bachelor degree people.
Many attend because mom and dad want them to go. Made them stay is a whole different thing. If you're truly wasting away and doing nothing, the college doesn't just let you keep attending. If you can't hack it to a certain level, they do tell kids to hit the bricks. There are many standards that universities set in place on their own and are dictated by many factors, including funding.

Once again, those that consistently miss class because of choices the night before, don't tend to make it to the end. As always, there are those that prove that statement wrong, but they are just outliers.

I suggest you go back through and re-read some of the posts. No one was bashing those that don't get degrees. They are just pointing out that it's absurd to complain about not getting a job in the education system when it requires a certain level of higher education.

When your profession is playing a sport, intelligence outside of that sport is irrelevant. That's a terrible comparison to this conversation.

Yes he was hired as just a football coach, but when you want a district, specifically a public district, to just create a job for you because you're the coach. That is unreasonable in this day and age. Even more so when you never finished your higher level education in a field where that is requirement for 95% of the employees. It was only brought up in this conversation because he brought it up in the article as an excuse for leaving. FYI... Most if not all universities require their coaches have a Bachelors. They prefer they have a Masters as most eventually get.
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  #44  
Old 01-31-18, 12:57 PM
bigmac27 bigmac27 is offline
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Originally Posted by MC12 View Post
Here is the real scoop:

Triway has like 7 teachers in the district that coach football at other schools.
This is just dumb on multiple levels. you should coach where you work and you should work where you coach. It's what's best for the kids, the program, the school, the district, and the employee. But in order to have it set up like that you have to have a district and administration committed to it being like that.
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  #45  
Old 01-31-18, 12:58 PM
bigmac27 bigmac27 is offline
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Originally Posted by lightspeed84 View Post
This is a very unique situation, if I were this guy, I think I would probably reevaluate my career choices, probably get out the whole high school football coaching game, where he is hoping for a job being created in world of schools with shrinking budgets and find a real career. Then after establishing a good solid career, maybe consider getting back into the coaching game if my career and family was flexible enough to allow it.
If you're doing it right it is a career. It's not some 3 hours a week hobby.
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  #46  
Old 01-31-18, 01:01 PM
guyinahoodie guyinahoodie is offline
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Originally Posted by bigmac27 View Post
If you're doing it right it is a career. It's not some 3 hours a week hobby.
I don't disagree with this, but coaching alone doesn't pay the bills. Careers pay bills.
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  #47  
Old 01-31-18, 01:04 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Originally Posted by bigmac27 View Post
If you're doing it right it is a career. It's not some 3 hours a week hobby.
Yes. $8,000/year sounds like career to me!
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  #48  
Old 01-31-18, 01:06 PM
guyinahoodie guyinahoodie is offline
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Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
Yes. $8,000/year sounds like career to me!

8k? That seems generous...Most of my buddies make half that, at best.
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  #49  
Old 01-31-18, 01:07 PM
bigmac27 bigmac27 is offline
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Originally Posted by yipyap View Post
Sometimes it happens. Sometimes a coach from another school with a degree takes a job when there are no openings in the school and he continues to teach where he was.. happens often. Also, retired coaches come back and take jobs because there are no openings and they have outstanding records.in cases like this the school does not have to worry about how many years to give the coach. He is retired.
I also thought there was a rule, loose wording, that if a person was coaching outside the school and someone inside the school wanted it they would have first choice. Anyone know if that is true?
Tom Foolery all around. Hire a coach and put him in the building then try and get as many of his assistants in the building as well. Can't be very successful with no one in the building. Now that being said to do such you need to have a coach who has a degree. I just think so many districts set themselves up for failure by hiring a guy and then not being willing to put them in a position in the building. In a perfect world I'd say everyone on staff needs to be in the building.
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  #50  
Old 01-31-18, 01:11 PM
bigmac27 bigmac27 is offline
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Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
Yes. $8,000/year sounds like career to me!
That's the point it shouldn't be 8K. It should be a fulltime job in the building (doing that job well obviously) + and 8K (or whatever) stipend stipend to be the HC (doing that job well obviously). You get what you pay for and what your committed to invest in. You can't ask someone to be successful and not treat them right. I'm not talking about just giving jobs to coaches for them to collect a check but they should make every opportunity to get a qualified coaches in the building and have jobs attached. Now I concede that the coach in this instance was not qualified to have an in the building job so therefore nothing can be done.

Last edited by bigmac27; 01-31-18 at 01:30 PM.
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  #51  
Old 01-31-18, 01:14 PM
bigmac27 bigmac27 is offline
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Originally Posted by guyinahoodie View Post
I don't disagree with this, but coaching alone doesn't pay the bills. Careers pay bills.
That's the point. You really want to do it right as an administration and district you attach a job to your HC position and you get that guy in the building and as much support in the building as you can. Treat people right and they work their tails off for you and achieve great things. Throw a guy 6K and say go build something but we aren't willing to get you a full time job in our district that will pay the bills and you aren't going to be successful 9 out of 10 times.
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  #52  
Old 01-31-18, 01:16 PM
guyinahoodie guyinahoodie is offline
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Originally Posted by bigmac27 View Post
That's the point. You really want to do it right as an administration and district you attach a job to your HC position and you get that guy in the building and as much support in the building as you can. Treat people right and they work their tails off for you and achieve great things. Throw a guy 6K and say go build something but we aren't willing to get you a full time job in our district that will pay the bills and you aren't going to be successful 9 out of 10 times.
I get that, but...he had no degree....what do you want the school to do??
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  #53  
Old 01-31-18, 01:17 PM
lightspeed84 lightspeed84 is offline
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Originally Posted by bigmac27 View Post
If you're doing it right it is a career. It's not some 3 hours a week hobby.
That was basically my point, but in today's society most schools can't hire coaches and give them a bs job within the school, coaches must be teachers first, meet certain requirements, etc, etc. So in reality being a head coach is now somewhere between a career and hobby. Personally with today educational standards I don;t know why anyone who is a teacher would want to coach (head or assistant). I got of it and couldn't be happier with my decision.
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  #54  
Old 01-31-18, 01:29 PM
bigmac27 bigmac27 is offline
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Originally Posted by guyinahoodie View Post
I get that, but...he had no degree....what do you want the school to do??
Nothing they can't do anything here and I get that, (Hire a coach with a degree, and make a spot for him in the building is the answer though). But I bet you the number of districts in Ohio without the HFC in the building is a large number and I bet you that the number of districts where there is a HFC in the building but not 1 of his assistants is a high number. Not good situations that breed success in my opinion.
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  #55  
Old 01-31-18, 01:31 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Originally Posted by guyinahoodie View Post
8k? That seems generous...Most of my buddies make half that, at best.
It could be. I have no idea what the Triway HC makes. I know my district pays just under 8k.
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  #56  
Old 01-31-18, 01:40 PM
the123kidz the123kidz is offline
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This was indeed the most intriguing hire I have ever seen in local high school football. I thought from the beginning it was really bazaar that Triway hired a Hoban coach. This flies in the face of everything I would have expected from that community. The program had several skilled kids playing this past fall and unfortunately depth and injuries took a toll on them.

He had them lining up in 2 TE's and in the I formation and was trying to play smash mouth football with kids that had never played that type of football before. Personally I don't mind that type of football but they were used to being out 4 and 5 wide and in the gun. It was hard to watch.
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  #57  
Old 01-31-18, 01:51 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Originally Posted by bigmac27 View Post
Nothing they can't do anything here and I get that, (Hire a coach with a degree, and make a spot for him in the building is the answer though). But I bet you the number of districts in Ohio without the HFC in the building is a large number and I bet you that the number of districts where there is a HFC in the building but not 1 of his assistants is a high number. Not good situations that breed success in my opinion.
Do you understand real life? Why do you think so many of these situations occur throughout the state? It isn't the because the schools want it this way.

Public Schools just can't make positions out of thin air. Most public districts are trimming and trimming under Kasich's policy of taking money away from the local communities to fill the coffers of the state account. Triway, Wayne County, and most other counties are doing way more now with so much less than ever. Sports are secondary. It's down the list of concerns of schools. They need the right people teaching the core classes so they can maybe get additional funding under the current state administration.
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  #58  
Old 01-31-18, 01:56 PM
guyinahoodie guyinahoodie is offline
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Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
Do you understand real life? Why do you think so many of these situations occur throughout the state? It isn't the because the schools want it this way.

Public Schools just can't make positions out of thin air. Most public districts are trimming and trimming under Kasich's policy of taking money away from the local communities to fill the coffers of the state account. Triway, Wayne County, and most other counties are doing way more now with so much less than ever. Sports are secondary. It's down the list of concerns of schools. They need the right people teaching the core classes so they can maybe get additional funding under the current state administration.
LOL. Love your opening line!

This is where quality administrators can do some leg work and find quality teachers willing to coach in their district. Why make it harder on yourself and hire someone in a PE job who will never coach. Find a math teacher that coaches basketball. A history teacher willing to coach baseball. Sports, whether you agree or not, drive a school, and its an admins job to make sure they have not only proficient educators, but those willing to coach too.
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  #59  
Old 01-31-18, 02:10 PM
bigmac27 bigmac27 is offline
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Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
Do you understand real life? Why do you think so many of these situations occur throughout the state? It isn't the because the schools want it this way.

Public Schools just can't make positions out of thin air. Most public districts are trimming and trimming under Kasich's policy of taking money away from the local communities to fill the coffers of the state account. Triway, Wayne County, and most other counties are doing way more now with so much less than ever. Sports are secondary. It's down the list of concerns of schools. They need the right people teaching the core classes so they can maybe get additional funding under the current state administration.
Texas and Georgia make it work I believe real life still takes place in those states but idk maybe it doesn't
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  #60  
Old 01-31-18, 02:10 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Originally Posted by guyinahoodie View Post
LOL. Love your opening line!

This is where quality administrators can do some leg work and find quality teachers willing to coach in their district. Why make it harder on yourself and hire someone in a PE job who will never coach. Find a math teacher that coaches basketball. A history teacher willing to coach baseball. Sports, whether you agree or not, drive a school, and its an admins job to make sure they have not only proficient educators, but those willing to coach too.
I agree that those willing to coach should get some sort of bonus point on the hiring scale. If you've got two teachers close to ability, the one willing to coach or participate in extra curricular should get the job. Ultimately, administrators are going to pick those that can improve their scores on the district report cards. Until athletics becomes a scoring objective on those reports, it's just not the priority and that's despite what any research may say about learning and extra curriculars. There are many teachers hired that do those things, but they just aren't in the limelight of athletics.
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