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  #1  
Old 01-19-19, 04:18 AM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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Smile Triple Jump

Some are clamoring to add this event to the Track & Field tournament schedule. Some Invitationals have already started contesting this event in their scoring. It was time to have a triple jump top ten for Greater Cincinnati high schools, so here is what we have so far. Additions or corrections are requested.
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File Type: pdf triple jump top ten boys.pdf (152.0 KB, 71 views)
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  #2  
Old 01-22-19, 04:46 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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I know little about the triple jump, but I do know that my track team at Coventry will get its first encounter with this event, as we are going to the East Canton Invitational for the first time. It will be an interesting experience for us.
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Old 01-22-19, 10:49 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
I know little about the triple jump, but I do know that my track team at Coventry will get its first encounter with this event, as we are going to the East Canton Invitational for the first time. It will be an interesting experience for us.
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Old 01-23-19, 01:59 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Add the steeple chase, too!
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  #5  
Old 02-11-19, 03:58 PM
2020Dad 2020Dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Some are clamoring to add this event to the Track & Field tournament schedule. Some Invitationals have already started contesting this event in their scoring. It was time to have a triple jump top ten for Greater Cincinnati high schools, so here is what we have so far. Additions or corrections are requested.

Justinian Mason son of Oliver Mason from ST X jumped 44 7.75 3/21/2009 which is the current ST Xavier record.

Kellen Newman is currently a junior at ST X and he jumped 44 ft 1.5 on sunday 2/10/2019 indoors at Otterbein 1st place
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  #6  
Old 02-11-19, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020Dad View Post
Justinian Mason son of Oliver Mason from ST X jumped 44 7.75 3/21/2009 which is the current ST Xavier record.

Kellen Newman is currently a junior at ST X and he jumped 44 ft 1.5 on sunday 2/10/2019 indoors at Otterbein 1st place
I'm asking JAVMAN83'S expertise on this one. Both of these jumps were done indoors. Can we put them on an outdoor list?
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Old 02-12-19, 05:26 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
I'm asking JAVMAN83'S expertise on this one. Both of these jumps were done indoors. Can we put them on an outdoor list?
No. Bad precedent.
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  #8  
Old 02-12-19, 06:27 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
I'm asking JAVMAN83'S expertise on this one. Both of these jumps were done indoors. Can we put them on an outdoor list?
No. I've got HUGE problems with the IAAF counting indoor marks in the field events the same as outdoor ones. Whoever pushed that through the IAAF committees, I have to wonder about their sanity. Indoor marks in the indoor jumps and vault are not only aided by the fact that you don't have to deal with the elements, but in many circumstances, you are aided by a floor surface that allows for more "spring" upon takeoff. I'm completely against indoor & outdoor marks being intertwined.
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Old 02-12-19, 06:36 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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As an FYI, I've already started lists for both m/f indoor TJ marks for Ohio. Withrow's Jalesha Jarmon has the female record at 39' 6" (2009), and so far I've got a 46' 8" jump by Lake Catholic's Delmario Hairston set just this year.

Jarmon has the outdoor best at 42' 1 1/2", while Milan Tiff (Shaker Heights) set the boys' record 49' 11 1/4" at the 1968 Golden West Invite.

Question: Is Delmario Hairston any relation to famed Columbus Central broad jumper of the mid-20th century, Bill Hairston? Anyone care to research that one?
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Old 02-12-19, 07:48 AM
Throwscoach Throwscoach is offline
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Just remember that the IAAF is also the same group that complains about the field events taking to log so they speed up the time an athlete can take to complete a trial and then stops the field event to introduce each athlete in 10 heats of the 100 meter dash.
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Old 02-13-19, 06:58 PM
xcandtrack xcandtrack is offline
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Keep dreamin.
1) OHSAA isn't going to add events to the state meet, no time in the meet schedule. 2) Another vertical jump gives the sprinter heavy schools even more of an advantage. 3) Is there a HS in Ohio that has the facilities for steeple chase? Most of them have a hard enough time keeping what they do have safe and useable. It is only track you know.

Now if your goal is to get more kids an opportunity to participate in the big meets, state tournaments. Track and XC should be four divisions. More kids participate in these sports than FB. Generally Track and XC has 200+ schools per div. FB has 100- per div. And Track and XC serve both genders.
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Old 02-14-19, 01:04 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwscoach View Post
Just remember that the IAAF is also the same group that complains about the field events taking to log so they speed up the time an athlete can take to complete a trial and then stops the field event to introduce each athlete in 10 heats of the 100 meter dash.
You noticed that insanity, too, didn't you
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  #13  
Old 02-14-19, 01:05 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcandtrack View Post
Keep dreamin.
1) OHSAA isn't going to add events to the state meet, no time in the meet schedule. 2) Another vertical jump gives the sprinter heavy schools even more of an advantage. 3) Is there a HS in Ohio that has the facilities for steeple chase? Most of them have a hard enough time keeping what they do have safe and useable. It is only track you know.

Now if your goal is to get more kids an opportunity to participate in the big meets, state tournaments. Track and XC should be four divisions. More kids participate in these sports than FB. Generally Track and XC has 200+ schools per div. FB has 100- per div. And Track and XC serve both genders.
I do believe the triple jump is a horizontal jump, not a vertical one. Of course, I've seen plenty of beginners treat the hop phase more like their long jumping into the air. Makes for a very short step phase.
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Old 02-14-19, 10:37 AM
xcandtrack xcandtrack is offline
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Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
I do believe the triple jump is a horizontal jump, not a vertical one. Of course, I've seen plenty of beginners treat the hop phase more like their long jumping into the air. Makes for a very short step phase.
Yes, brain thinking one way, fingers another.
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  #15  
Old 02-14-19, 11:15 AM
Run4Life Run4Life is offline
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Originally Posted by xcandtrack View Post
Keep dreamin.
1) OHSAA isn't going to add events to the state meet, no time in the meet schedule.
The facility at Jesse Owens has 4 pits for the long jump/triple jump. There is no reason they cannot host both at the same time. It only needs a handful of officials and rakes. When you look at the athletes competing in the long/triple un the indoor state meet it shows that it isn't a forgone conclusion that they will be one and the same. Different event, different technique, different athlete.

The OATCCC needs to keep putting the need of the event up to the OHSAA. They had good rational the last time the Board of Control failed to make a second on the proposal, but the board changes. By continuing to bring it up means we are showing our seriousness for the event.

I know the current OATCCC board is concentrating on adding the 4th division, but this should be ready to bring up asap.

As for the steeplechase, how many tracks used by the 750+ teams have a facility for the event? It isn't the same as putting down a couple of takeoff boards on a runway.
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  #16  
Old 02-14-19, 02:52 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcandtrack View Post
Yes, brain thinking one way, fingers another.
Ahh, lesdyxic!
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  #17  
Old 02-14-19, 06:11 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run4Life View Post
The facility at Jesse Owens has 4 pits for the long jump/triple jump. There is no reason they cannot host both at the same time. It only needs a handful of officials and rakes.
The Jesse O could handle the event just fine. But, there are 12 Regional sites and about 48 district sites that would also need to accommodate the event, and not all of them would be able to easily. Most recently built/updated facilities have two pits, but not all. And some of those that have two pits share a runway. It's not as easy as many of you think.
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Old 02-15-19, 01:43 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I don't see an issue since District and Regional meets are two day meets where they split girls LJ and Boys LJ now. Number of teams with a triple jumper or two will not be too many for a few years with the exception of D1. So, it should go fast. Prelim day, might be tight. but they can certainly get a long jump and TJ in on Finals day.

The downside is that D2 and D3 schools will most likely have to take one of their better athletes out of another event to cover it.

So, we get rid of the 4x200 right? I'm not in favor of adding anything unless we get rid of the 4x200. Anything to get rid of the 4x200. Can't stand that event.
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  #19  
Old 02-15-19, 02:02 PM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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I imagine the smaller schools wondering how they will coach another event with the existing staff.
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  #20  
Old 02-15-19, 02:09 PM
Run4Life Run4Life is offline
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Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
I imagine the smaller schools wondering how they will coach another event with the existing staff.
I had boys and girls (over 100 total members) competing with my distance coach and sprints coach when we were division 2, under 800 kids in the school. It can be done.

In regards to Altor's post, I agree, there will be issues at the district level, so many schools competing. Where we compete, unless the field events are held up by weather we only have running events the final day. More than enough time for the triple jumpers to get their chance. There is plenty of time at the regional meets.
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  #21  
Old 02-15-19, 02:13 PM
Run4Life Run4Life is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
I don't see an issue since District and Regional meets are two day meets where they split girls LJ and Boys LJ now. Number of teams with a triple jumper or two will not be too many for a few years with the exception of D1. So, it should go fast. Prelim day, might be tight. but they can certainly get a long jump and TJ in on Finals day.

The downside is that D2 and D3 schools will most likely have to take one of their better athletes out of another event to cover it.
Just like with the pole vault now, it is competed, but many schools opt not to be involved with it, be it no coach, no pit, too much for poles. Just because it is available doesn't mean every school MUST compete in it.
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  #22  
Old 02-15-19, 03:02 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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FYI - For those that argue for one reason or another that adding the Triple Jump is a burdensome activity, the State of Kentucky host the triple jump...regularly...KENTUCKY!!! Ohio is like the Bengals management...almost always behind-the-curve and never a leader.
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  #23  
Old 02-17-19, 08:17 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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A couple of years ago when we thought TJ would be added it was an event at several invitationals. At least one of those had only one pit, and they finished all field events before the end of running. And as Javman says, other states do it. Now the javelin, there’s the field event I wish we had. Because I could competently coach that.
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Old 02-17-19, 10:11 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by mathking View Post
A couple of years ago when we thought TJ would be added it was an event at several invitationals. At least one of those had only one pit, and they finished all field events before the end of running. And as Javman says, other states do it. Now the javelin, there’s the field event I wish we had. Because I could competently coach that.


The javelin WAS an Ohio event from 1917-1937 until its removal

From a cost vs. risk assessment, I'd say the javelin is a cheaper event to conduct than the pole vault; however, having done both events passionately in my earlier life, I wouldn't want to see either one suffer because of such an assessment. Both can be and are done safely in numerous states. The pole vault used to be a relatively inexpensive event PRIOR to the advent of the fiberglass pole and its requisite landings on foam with ever increasing heights attained. Those costs can be mitigated greatly through fundraisers of various sorts or by solicited donations of alumni. The triple jump adds very little expense, essentially the cost of one or two implements in the pole vault or javelin with the addition of two additional take-off boards (boys/girls). Painted boards take it down to the cost of a can of spray paint.
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  #25  
Old 02-17-19, 01:03 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Originally Posted by Run4Life View Post
Just like with the pole vault now, it is competed, but many schools opt not to be involved with it, be it no coach, no pit, too much for poles. Just because it is available doesn't mean every school MUST compete in it.
Very common in wrestling. Especially the small schools. They leave weight classes open all the time.
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Old 02-17-19, 09:22 PM
xcandtrack xcandtrack is offline
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Would the addition of TJ enhance the experience T&F for HS athletes or the sport of T&F in Ohio?

Would it open up the sport of T&F to athletes with new skills that aren't covered by current events? No. The replies to this topic indicate that the participates would mostly come from other events.

Would the cost be prohibitive to many schools. Yes. Only resource rich schools would be able to participate. Again the replies to this topic indicate that this would likely be the case.

Would this lengthen the time to complete a meet. Yes.

Would this further advantage programs that are sprinter focused? Yes.

Conclusion: The addition of TJ would not benefit the HS athletes or HS T&F in Ohio.
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Old 02-17-19, 09:50 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by xcandtrack View Post
Would the addition of TJ enhance the experience T&F for HS athletes or the sport of T&F in Ohio?


I will comment on each of your assertions one-by-one in RED text.

1) Would it open up the sport of T&F to athletes with new skills that aren't covered by current events? No. The replies to this topic indicate that the participates would mostly come from other events.
You make the false assumption that the long jump satisfactorily covers all those talented as jumping for distance. As a life-long field-eventer, I can tell you that it does not. Those that are best in the triple jump are frequently good in the long jump, but not the best. There is in depth research available at all levels to demonstrate this. The triple jump has unique coordination skills that are not dealt with in the long jump. The triple jump is a UNIQUE event with unique skills in and of itself. The comments by others indicating that participants from other events would have to be "raided" are supposition. That may well be in particular circumstances; however, those individuals may well in fact score more points for the team competing in the triple jump than they otherwise would have in other events.


2) Would the cost be prohibitive to many schools. Yes. Only resource rich schools would be able to participate. Again the replies to this topic indicate that this would likely be the case.
How in the blazings is participation in the TJ limited to "resource rich" schools? What limited logic leads you to that conclusion. The TJ is participated in at ALL levels in KY. Yours and other comments to the contrary are simply false.

3) Would this lengthen the time to complete a meet. Yes.
It wouldn't add much additional time in a decently run meet. Many invitationals around Ohio already hold the TJ with no appreciable lengthening of the meet. This is especially true on multi-day meets. Again, I point to KENTUCKY (as well as other states) that hold the TJ as part of the scholastic programs.

4) Would this further advantage programs that are sprinter focused? Yes.
Again, possible, but supposition. Being "quick" on the runway is a good thing to have as a horizontal jumper, but it is not as crucial with the TJ as it is with the LJ. Completely different needs, and there have been plenty of good long and triple jumpers that weren't great sprinters, and vice-versa. I've seen lots of sprinters that couldn't jump to save their lives.

Conclusion: The addition of TJ would not benefit the HS athletes or HS T&F in Ohio.
This is a completely qualitative judgement on your part and easily countered by arguments above and beyond.
I noticed that your handle is xcandtrack. If this means that you are a distance runner and view the sport from that as a distance runner, then I can understand your viewpoint. However, MOST of the sport of track and field is SPEED, POWER, and TECHNIQUE-related. XC is for distance runners. Track and Field is about so much more, and distance running (I don't count the 800 as distance) only makes up about a 1/4 of T&F. Don't restrict participation of athletes just because the mindset of that of a distance runner. I don't call for distance events to be removed from T&F.
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Old 02-18-19, 09:05 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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I come from a DIII school with very limited funding for track and field, a Decade ago, when talk of adding the triple jump in Ohio began, I introduced my athletes to the event and began to look for meets that offered the event. For the past 6-7 seasons I have chosen to look for and attend Invitationals that offer the Triple Jump and offer it at our Invitational. We now attend 3 Invitational meets every year that offer the event. They are the Claymont - Jeff Arthurs Invitational, The East Canton Invitational, and the Carrollton Invitational. These meets host between 8 and 16 teams. Here is what I have observed... Good and Bad.

1. It has NEVER added time to the length of the Meet as each site that we attend only has one pit. Any organized meet, without a weather delay, should finish the event before the 4 x 400. (Although I have seen the pole vault still going on a couple times...that is always due to poor organization or weather)
2. Adding the Triple jump is cheaper than getting a new set of blocks or a box of relay batons. One can of spray paint or a roll of athletic tape is all it takes!
3. I gives kids who might not get a chance to compete at invitationals a chance. Either in the triple jump OR by replacing the "stud" spinter/hurdler who does the triple and has to drop a relay leg or one of his/her individual events.
NOTE: I have noticed, that the schools who put one of their "top kids" in the triple jump, have to take them out of one of their other events as you can still only do 4 events.
4. The triple jump is very much a specific still event as it is VERY different from the High Jump, and only similar to the long jump on the third phase.
NOTE: I have found the "slow" hurdlers do well,,,probably because they 4-step the hurdles so they already can utilize both legs and are co-ordinated due to hurdling.
5. For our program, which is a pretty strong distance/CC school, we often use those kids who can't make the invitational in the 4 x 800 or 4 x 400 and since the cross county kids do some ploys in the fall and spring...we teach some them basic triple jump. (we also have had some 2:15 guys and 2:45 girls - who can not make our 4 x 8 team, and turn them into pretty good 300 hurdlers)
So...xcandtrack, i have an opposite answer to each of your questions
6. AND MOST IMPORTANT... all the kids who do it...enjoy it. It is fun, they learn a new skill and they are participating. NOTE even the couple of my kids who sustained injury doing it, want to do it again. this is not so in the hurdles or other events.


Now, just because the triple jump is NOT cost prohibitive; it will NOT add time to the length of the meet; it will NOT only help kids or schools who are "sprint heavy" ; and it CAN open up a new set of skills for some track and field athletes; does not mean that we should automatically add it to the order of events. There are some concerns or problems to be addressed.
Here are concerns that I have observed at our meets and throughout the indoor season.

1. Lack of knowledge about the event (as evident by xcandtrack's post) or not knowing the rules of the event
-too many coaches think that you get a good long jumper or sprinter and take that skill over to the triple and "just do it". I do see this in other events too,examples the hurdles(jumping over them or nocking them all down), high jump ( taking off two feet). but the triple jump has greater risk. see #2
2. Injury risk - This goes back to #1 somewhat, but the event is not easy on the lower legs. Kids want to practice the steps a lot, but they should probably not unless it is on the grass or a mat. Young kids will want to do it too much and inexperienced coaches may let them.
3. Lack of officials who understand the event. you probably need 4 for the event and that does not include rakers. whoever is (1)watching the "board" for a foul should not have to watch the step pattern. (2)some one who understand all phases to watch the hop-step-jump. (3) someone to watch the landing and stick the tape measure in the sand and (4) someone to read/record the mark... them probably two rakers to make thing go faster.
I have seen kids "get away with" three long bounds into the pit and the official does not know it's wrong and the coach does not know it is wrong, it's probably not the kid's fault.

It starts and ends with education.

IMO, if the triple jump is added there should maybe be a required certification - like we presently have for the pole vault. some coaches may complain about that like they do the PV, but I think we want to increase oppurtunity for kids and still be concerned about safety.
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Old 02-18-19, 04:24 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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ENA2 - A very fair assessment on your part! I can see getting away with 3 people running the event as I've conducted many dozens of jumps & throwing competitions, including at the collegiate championship level, where I was responsible for observing fouls & writing down the results as part of that function. However, if you have 4 bodies available, more power to you!

I'm not sure certification is needed or not, or desirable, but I would definitely advise that who ever is coaching the event ought to attend a clinic to understand the event better, not just for proper technique, but for training purposes in order to prevent repetitive abuse of young bodies. I've witnessed all too many repetitive abuse injuries in many events over the decades, and I bear witness in my own throwing shoulder (javelin) as to what happens when too many 100% efforts are given. 30 years later, I have impingement issues that cause pain in certain positions, so I'm all for education on prevention along these lines.
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Old 02-18-19, 08:24 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcandtrack View Post
Would the addition of TJ enhance the experience T&F for HS athletes or the sport of T&F in Ohio?

Would it open up the sport of T&F to athletes with new skills that aren't covered by current events? No. The replies to this topic indicate that the participates would mostly come from other events.

Would the cost be prohibitive to many schools. Yes. Only resource rich schools would be able to participate. Again the replies to this topic indicate that this would likely be the case.

Would this lengthen the time to complete a meet. Yes.

Would this further advantage programs that are sprinter focused? Yes.

Conclusion: The addition of TJ would not benefit the HS athletes or HS T&F in Ohio.
Is triple jump competed at the national level?
Yes

Is triple jump competed at the college level?
Yes

Is triple jump competed at the Olympic level?
Yes

Would Triple jump give Ohio athletes more opportunity at the state meet?
Yes

Would triple jump all Ohio athletes to earn more college scholarships?
Yes
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