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  #7291  
Old 06-10-18, 07:44 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
You need to take care of the kids.....especially kids under 12. WTF!!!!!
And in both cases they are taken care of. If they are US citizens they can became wards of the state and placed in foster care or go with their parents.

If they are not US citizens then they go back with their parents.

Itís pretty simple.

You also realize that the one picture/video being passed around on social media and left wing websites blaming Trump for how the children of illegals are being treated was actually taken during the Obama administration?

It never surfaced then, not being used against Trump even though it was from before 2016...
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  #7292  
Old 06-10-18, 07:50 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
You need to take care of the kids.....especially kids under 12. WTF!!!!!
You did not answer the question. When a set of parents commit a crime and get thrown in jail is it their fault or the Presidentís fault for ďtearing apart the familyĒ?
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  #7293  
Old 06-10-18, 09:38 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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In other words any time someone goes to jail their children should be put in detention camps. Theft, assault, tax evasion, DWI, drug offense, too many speeding tickets, etc. Oh well your fault.

Typical simple minded alt right view, courtesy of the pro-life pro-family pro-Christian party.

Btw it is also being applied to immigrants seeking asylum from gangs, war, violence etc. Ironically for the safety of their children - basically a Sophie's Choice. It is also being applied to US born citizen children of adult immigrants brought here as children themselves and only know this country. Just another tool by this anti-immigrant WH to deter immigrants period. This time using kids. Maybe we should club them like baby seals that would teach them. Wait for it...
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  #7294  
Old 06-10-18, 09:49 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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And that is not to say we need open borders etc. But overall and compressive reforms. The root cause issue is basically the fundamental belief whether immigrants period are wanted or welcome or consistent with American values, and basically our founding. If not - then continued gridlock. I can't see it with this WH, or Trump base. Very far right anti-immigrant views.
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  #7295  
Old 06-10-18, 09:51 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Yes. Many of them are seeking legal asylum. Sending the parents back to Guatemala and giving a two year girl to a stranger (who is not even properly vetted) is not good.
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  #7296  
Old 06-10-18, 10:09 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
And that is not to say we need open borders etc. But overall and compressive reforms. The root cause issue is basically the fundamental belief whether immigrants period are wanted or welcome or consistent with American values, and basically our founding. If not - then continued gridlock. I can't see it with this WH, or Trump base. Very far right anti-immigrant views.
The issue is illegal immigration not immigration itself. But you knew that.

Divisive crap like this is what is driving society apart and it comes from the identity politics left.
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  #7297  
Old 06-10-18, 10:19 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2h View Post
The issue is illegal immigration not immigration itself. But you knew that.

Divisive crap like this is what is driving society apart and it comes from the identity politics left.
Legal immigration has definitely been an issue as well.
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  #7298  
Old 06-10-18, 10:29 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
In other words any time someone goes to jail their children should be put in detention camps. Theft, assault, tax evasion, DWI, drug offense, too many speeding tickets, etc. Oh well your fault.

Typical simple minded alt right view, courtesy of the pro-life pro-family pro-Christian party.

Btw it is also being applied to immigrants seeking asylum from gangs, war, violence etc. Ironically for the safety of their children - basically a Sophie's Choice. It is also being applied to US born citizen children of adult immigrants brought here as children themselves and only know this country. Just another tool by this anti-immigrant WH to deter immigrants period. This time using kids. Maybe we should club them like baby seals that would teach them. Wait for it...
Maybe you didnít actually read what I wrote. Try to read it again and then you will realize that this logical leap is really bad.
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  #7299  
Old 06-10-18, 10:42 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
You did not answer the question. When a set of parents commit a crime and get thrown in jail is it their fault or the Presidentís fault for ďtearing apart the familyĒ?
Most are going to border station to seek asylum. Putting a 2 year old in a cage and deporting her parents. #MAGA.
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  #7300  
Old 06-10-18, 11:32 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Most are going to border station to seek asylum. Putting a 2 year old in a cage and deporting her parents. #MAGA.
You are still avoiding the question. And most illegals are not running here for asylum. Unless you can link a statistic proving otherwise you should recant that statement.
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  #7301  
Old 06-10-18, 02:16 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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People crossing the Mexican border illegally are seeking asylum? That's a new one.
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  #7302  
Old 06-10-18, 03:29 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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A trade war with our closest ally Canada because President Snowflake was disrespected. Brilliant especially given the vile disrespect he is giving our closest allies. Vlad spiking the ball.

LOTR-- I look forward to your deep explanation on how a trade war with Canada is good idea and protects our national security.

I do not believe trump understands how global economics work . He is a narcissist and easy mark.
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  #7303  
Old 06-10-18, 04:57 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
Legal immigration has definitely been an issue as well.
It has been an issue only to the extent that GOING FORWARD folks are asking what should our LEGAL immigration system look like:

* Should new immigrants be required to speak & read English?

* Should we focus on merit based immigration and not on refugee & family reunification migration?

* Do we only admit those with the skills and/or financial resources sufficient that they do not tap into our welfare net? It is disturbing when 75% of the LEGAL immigrants from Mexico & Central America receive some form of federal and/or state welfare.

* What is a reasonable number of legal immigrants we should target to admit each year? Is the current number to high or to low?

The fact is that folks like TigerPaw conflate legal and illegal immigration in an effort to create an open borders society and a false sympathy for the law breaking illegals. It's like how back in the day liberals painted the homeless as a mom & dad with three kids living in their car when in fact the vast majority of homeless were not families but individuals having alcohol/drug addictions and/or mental health problems.
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  #7304  
Old 06-10-18, 05:04 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
A trade war with our closest ally Canada because President Snowflake was disrespected. Brilliant especially given the vile disrespect he is giving our closest allies. Vlad spiking the ball.

LOTR-- I look forward to your deep explanation on how a trade war with Canada is good idea and protects our national security.

I do not believe trump understands how global economics work . He is a narcissist and easy mark.
We are not going to have a trade war with Canada. However, Canada has taken advantage of us with selected tariffs that protect their domestic industries at our expense. Trump is in the process of resetting our economic relationship with Canada, Western Europe and Asia. It is long past due that a reset was put in motion.

If you believe that the global economic system requires a compliant USA that allows favored access to it's economy while being denied full access to other economies then I hope Trump is ignorant of such voodoo economics.

On the other hand Trump understands normal global economics just fine. He has stated numerous times that he would favor a world without tariffs. However, when tariffs are being used he will insist on reciprocity. Why would any thinking American want anything else?
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  #7305  
Old 06-10-18, 05:24 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
We are not going to have a trade war with Canada. However, Canada has taken advantage of us with selected tariffs that protect their domestic industries at our expense. Trump is in the process of resetting our economic relationship with Canada, Western Europe and Asia. It is long past due that a reset was put in motion.

If you believe that the global economic system requires a compliant USA that allows favored access to it's economy while being denied full access to other economies then I hope Trump is ignorant of such voodoo economics.

On the other hand Trump understands normal global economics just fine. He has stated numerous times that he would favor a world without tariffs. However, when tariffs are being used he will insist on reciprocity. Why would any thinking American want anything else?
It's like these people don't understand the carrot and stick of negotiation.
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  #7306  
Old 06-10-18, 05:31 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
It's like these people don't understand the carrot and stick of negotiation.
I'm beginning to think they understand perfectly well but are so clouded by their hatred of all things Trump that they can't see the forest for the trees.

I also suspect that they have been brainwashed into believing the liberal world order is the only way to go. That the US should open it's economy and borders to help other people out. That it's somehow selfish to act to benefit the US and it's citizens. To them everything is a zero sum game.
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  #7307  
Old 06-10-18, 06:33 PM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Yeah, but Trudeauís eyebrows.
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  #7308  
Old 06-10-18, 07:55 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
In other words any time someone goes to jail their children should be put in detention camps. Theft, assault, tax evasion, DWI, drug offense, too many speeding tickets, etc. Oh well your fault.
Ö...
No, you put the kids with family or foster care. But if they are illegal aliens, we should arrange for relatives back home to meet the plane as they disembark back in their own country. We don't reward the parents for being stupid.
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  #7309  
Old 06-10-18, 08:01 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
It has been an issue only to the extent that GOING FORWARD folks are asking what should our LEGAL immigration system look like:

* Should new immigrants be required to speak & read English?

* Should we focus on merit based immigration and not on refugee & family reunification migration?

* Do we only admit those with the skills and/or financial resources sufficient that they do not tap into our welfare net? It is disturbing when 75% of the LEGAL immigrants from Mexico & Central America receive some form of federal and/or state welfare.

* What is a reasonable number of legal immigrants we should target to admit each year? Is the current number to high or to low?

The fact is that folks like TigerPaw conflate legal and illegal immigration in an effort to create an open borders society and a false sympathy for the law breaking illegals. It's like how back in the day liberals painted the homeless as a mom & dad with three kids living in their car when in fact the vast majority of homeless were not families but individuals having alcohol/drug addictions and/or mental health problems.
The world is changing, it absolutely should be merit based.

They should know the language before arriving. Let's see how serious they are about wanting to be an American.

If over 22, they should have a college education or a recognized trade that is needed.

Everyone should be assessed as individuals.

We should also change the laws so that children of illegal immigrants cannot become citizens without 1st returning to their home country and satisfying our standards for immigration. We should also end the granting of citizenship for people born here to illegal immigrants. Remove the incentive to break our laws, welcome the people that follow our laws.
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  #7310  
Old 06-10-18, 08:30 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
A trade war with our closest ally Canada because President Snowflake was disrespected. Brilliant especially given the vile disrespect he is giving our closest allies. Vlad spiking the ball.

LOTR-- I look forward to your deep explanation on how a trade war with Canada is good idea and protects our national security.

I do not believe trump understands how global economics work . He is a narcissist and easy mark.
You have obviously never had to do actual work or travel to Canada for work reasons. The difference in regulations and national protectionism they have compared to ours is astonishing.

If you are not a Canadian citizen and are going there for work you have to have a crap ton more paperwork than coming to the US from Canada and you CAN NOT do any of the actual work (have to just supervise Canadian workers) unless you AND the Canadian company you are working at attest and be ready to prove that you have a skill set they need that no Canadian can do.

They most definitely get the better end of the current labor and goods trade deal with the US currently. Anyone that has done business in Canada knows this.
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  #7311  
Old 06-10-18, 11:16 PM
FootballFan1795 FootballFan1795 is offline
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Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
yeah, but trudeauís eyebrows.
lol
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  #7312  
Old 06-11-18, 03:04 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
And that is not to say we need open borders etc. But overall and compressive reforms. The root cause issue is basically the fundamental belief whether immigrants period are wanted or welcome or consistent with American values, and basically our founding. If not - then continued gridlock. I can't see it with this WH, or Trump base. Very far right anti-immigrant views.
The root cause is the fundamental belief of some people that our laws should not apply to them. Legal immigration is not convenient for them and convenience matters more than process.

We have few problems with legal immigrants, we definitely don't want illegal immigrants. I don't see how you people continue to not get it.
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  #7313  
Old 06-11-18, 03:10 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by jmog View Post
You have obviously never had to do actual work or travel to Canada for work reasons. The difference in regulations and national protectionism they have compared to ours is astonishing.

If you are not a Canadian citizen and are going there for work you have to have a crap ton more paperwork than coming to the US from Canada and you CAN NOT do any of the actual work (have to just supervise Canadian workers) unless you AND the Canadian company you are working at attest and be ready to prove that you have a skill set they need that no Canadian can do.

They most definitely get the better end of the current labor and goods trade deal with the US currently. Anyone that has done business in Canada knows this.
We go through this every few years. Back in the 1990s Canada started throwing fits about Americans coming in to consult with existing customers (they wanted us to hire more Canadian engineers to handle all needs).We had a Canadian division, but sometimes we needed to bring people with more/different skills from other places.
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  #7314  
Old 06-11-18, 04:40 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by jmog View Post
And in both cases they are taken care of. If they are US citizens they can became wards of the state and placed in foster care or go with their parents.

If they are not US citizens then they go back with their parents.

Itís pretty simple.

You also realize that the one picture/video being passed around on social media and left wing websites blaming Trump for how the children of illegals are being treated was actually taken during the Obama administration?

It never surfaced then, not being used against Trump even though it was from before 2016...
So typical of these turds. They know they're preaching to the choir. Reality doesn't figure into their equation.
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  #7315  
Old 06-11-18, 04:53 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
In other words any time someone goes to jail their children should be put in detention camps. Theft, assault, tax evasion, DWI, drug offense, too many speeding tickets, etc. Oh well your fault.

Typical simple minded alt right view, courtesy of the pro-life pro-family pro-Christian party.

Btw it is also being applied to immigrants seeking asylum from gangs, war, violence etc. Ironically for the safety of their children - basically a Sophie's Choice. It is also being applied to US born citizen children of adult immigrants brought here as children themselves and only know this country. Just another tool by this anti-immigrant WH to deter immigrants period. This time using kids. Maybe we should club them like baby seals that would teach them. Wait for it...
He said foster care. I read it very clearly.

Both with illegal aliens and any incarcerated citizen offenders, if citizen children cannot be moved in with citizen family, the kids should go to foster care.

We should not be taking in everyone that claims they want to escape peril in their own nation. We should be helping them in place, if possible. It is far more efficient, and every sentient person realizes that most of you lot don't really give a crap about them beyond an imported vote for your dying party. The world is a tough place, and even our resources are limited. Grow up and face reality. Frankly, your melodrama is comical. You should make a gif of yourself "rending your garment" and wailing. Maybe crumple to your knees and whimper a bit. Some sad Sally Struthers eyes looking up at the end.....
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  #7316  
Old 06-11-18, 04:58 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Yes. Many of them are seeking legal asylum. Sending the parents back to Guatemala and giving a two year girl to a stranger (who is not even properly vetted) is not good.
Then take the kid back with them. We are not responsible for their bad choices. If anything, the anguish is Obummer's fault for creating the worldwide perception of non-enforcement of our borders.
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  #7317  
Old 06-11-18, 05:00 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by jmog View Post
Maybe you didn’t actually read what I wrote. Try to read it again and then you will realize that this logical leap is really bad.
It's all TP has.....




Those are even Massillon colors
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  #7318  
Old 06-11-18, 05:06 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
A trade war with our closest ally Canada because President Snowflake was disrespected. Brilliant especially given the vile disrespect he is giving our closest allies. Vlad spiking the ball.

LOTR-- I look forward to your deep explanation on how a trade war with Canada is good idea and protects our national security.

I do not believe trump understands how global economics work . He is a narcissist and easy mark.
Canada in a trade war with us ?

They love it when it's $1.15 loonies:$1.00. They strive for it, for trade motivation. It's a pillar of their economy. All the drama from you two goofs is absurd. You buy any bit of posturing that is put out there.
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  #7319  
Old 06-11-18, 07:05 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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I suppose he will go after NATO next...meanwhile China and Russia filling the leadership vacuum.
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  #7320  
Old 06-11-18, 07:23 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
I suppose he will go after NATO next...meanwhile China and Russia filling the leadership vacuum.
I hope he does. Exactly what value does NATO provide in the 21st century? I would favor a reworking of the treaty that includes:

* mandating a defense spending threshold that if you fall below it you are AUTOMATICALLY removed from the treaty. At present I believe that almost none of the other NATO members meet the current defense spending targets.

* I would focus my efforts on the former Eastern block countries: Hungary, Czech republic, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria & Slovakia. These countries actually treat NATO seriously.

With the expansion of NATO to include the Baltic States which was unnecessarily provocative to Russia and enlarging it's mandate beyond the defense of Europe the alliance has been broken. If we want a tool that helps us police the world (if that is even what we want) then NATO is not the answer and we must build a new defense alliance.

WW2 ended 63 years ago and the Cold War ended 28 years ago. It's high time we seriously reassessed out global defense commitments including NATO. That it's taken so long to do this is proof that the vested interests exert an inordinate control over our foreign policy.
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