Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > General Sports > Debate Forum

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #61  
Old 06-13-17, 03:22 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-06-09
Posts: 2,747
irish_buffalo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
It begins with the introduction of Secular Humanism as the State religion/un-religion.

We are really just a generation or so behind Europe if the Dems get their way. Kind of culturally sniffing our own azzes at the "pinnacle of human enlightenment". Nature abhors a vacuum, right ? Something has to replace Christianity.

It will really be funny looking back if it turns out that the New World was saved by rednecks, fundamentalist Christians, and logical folks portrayed as xenophobes.

I think Canada and the greater Buffalo and Detroit areas will prove to be far more problematic than anyone is guessing now. Just waiting for the numbers......
I agree with a lot of what you say.

But the last statement about Detroit? What do you mean there? Just curious?

I know an AWFUL lot of Arab Muslims who are first and second generation. By the second but more importantly the third they are "American". They are passionate "American" sports fans, they date and marry Christians, the begin to celebrate "American" holidays. Very much like previous cultures.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-13-17, 03:24 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 10-06-12
Location: over here
Posts: 25,737
cabezadecaballo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Immigrants are the ones that created that diversity of internal culture that you respect. It's there because they didn't "assimilate," they integrated. That means they change and those already here, changed. We integrated. That's American, we're not The Borg.

I'm not getting the basis for your fear or your complaint and I'm much more anti-open door than anyone else I've seen give opinion on these forums.
Cleveland once had a beautiful array of ethnicity spread across the city in many neighborhoods. The Democrats' ill-conceived busing scams destroyed them. If there is a Borg equivalent in our history, it's the post-war Progressive Democrats.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-13-17, 03:25 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is online now
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-06-04
Location: Not Cincinnati
Posts: 32,585
Crusaders is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post
Shaira courts are used as a means for resolving marital or financial matters of those of the Islamic faith. These courts dont have legal standing among those of non Islamic faith. It is also important to note that many people of the Islamic faith want these matters resolved by their own community. (Although I am sure there are women who prefer matters resolved outside of sharia law).

Orthodox Jews often settle matters in front of the Jewish Beth Din courts as again these courts are often best suited to handle matters that involve those whose rules of faith are not always recognized in a regular court of law.

I am not suggesting that I agree with all aspects of any faith but lets not pretend that these are the beginning of Islamic faith taking over the UK
At what point would you concede that Islam is making inroads in Western society if not their own religious courts? And before you repeat yourself, Western Civilization is heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian ideas, not Muslim ideas. To their core they are incompatible philosophies.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-13-17, 03:27 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 10-06-12
Location: over here
Posts: 25,737
cabezadecaballo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
I agree with a lot of what you say.

But the last statement about Detroit? What do you mean there? Just curious?

I know an AWFUL lot of Arab Muslims who are first and second generation. By the second but more importantly the third they are "American". They are passionate "American" sports fans, they date and marry Christians, the begin to celebrate "American" holidays. Very much like previous cultures.
Yet many of the second-gen Muzzies are the violent actors.

I'm guessing that the insular and dangerous second-gen Muzzies aren't mingling where you would encounter them until they are swinging a machete or have a bomb strapped to their belly.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-13-17, 04:25 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-26-03
Location: fairfield, ohio
Posts: 19,607
lotr10 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
At what point would you concede that Islam is making inroads in Western society if not their own religious courts? And before you repeat yourself, Western Civilization is heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian ideas, not Muslim ideas. To their core they are incompatible philosophies.
It's alarming how many people don't appreciate your last two sentences. Judaeo-Christian philosophies acted as a precursor to the Renaissance and the Enlightenment and all that flowed from them (philosophical AND scientific) to create what we call Western Civilization.

In a strange way the nature of Judaeo-Christianity created the very conditions that has led to the rise of secularism. It's the ultimate tribute to freedom of choice where ones faith is truly chosen. Islam is simply not compatible with this.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-13-17, 07:30 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-27-06
Posts: 15,812
eastisbest will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Cleveland once had a beautiful array of ethnicity spread across the city in many neighborhoods. The Democrats' ill-conceived busing scams destroyed them. If there is a Borg equivalent in our history, it's the post-war Progressive Democrats.
Those weren't busing scams. Those were a means to avoid prosecution by "social liberals" (SL) based upon Brown. SL didn't care that the schools weren't "established" by race, they were going to tie down the educational system because by economics and being real, personal choice people had self-segregated. Their point was going to be that the establishment didn't put the same resources into the schools serving primarily black neighborhoods and they were generally correct on that.

So school districts, and Ohio had some of the first, means to avoid that was to "open enroll" and bus the students to where they would provide racial balance. Of course black students saw advantage because in fact, many of the school districts WEREn't putting in the same resources in their neighborhoods. And even if the district was, the perception still existed.

"Busing" didn't destroy those neighborhoods. Natural migration out of those neighborhoods as economic success was achieved, choice to avoid new migrants and blacks ("white flight"),changed the make-up of those neighborhoods.

Were those neighborhoods by some distorted desire mandated to stay the same forever? Yeah, they're cute and gentrified modern "Little Itallies" but back in the day, they were dangerous as any and the schools, particularly the schools which spanned many ethnicities were hardly mono-chromatic. That's romanticized memory.

Busing actually provided a means for people to retain their neighborhood cultural identities, at the compromise that the school day might look somewhat differently. That the "whites" in those neighborhoods choose to find excuse to flee or take advantage of upward mobility, that goes on them, not on busing.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06-13-17, 08:23 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 08-18-11
Posts: 2,675
Gh0st is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
At what point would you concede that Islam is making inroads in Western society if not their own religious courts? And before you repeat yourself, Western Civilization is heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian ideas, not Muslim ideas. To their core they are incompatible philosophies.
I would hope it has. It's coexisted with Western or Judeo-Christian civilization for hundreds of years. Paganism and Christianity were very incompatible philosophies that ended up mixing for the most part to form what we know as Western civilization.

I think we can only hope that a similar degree of merging and coexistence will happen between the faiths that dominate the majority of the world's population. The Muslim faith seems incredibly resistant however and seems to be the only thing that is incompatible with EVERY way of life.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06-13-17, 11:26 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is online now
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-06-04
Location: Not Cincinnati
Posts: 32,585
Crusaders is on a distinguished road
They coexist sure, just not very well.

Christianity absorbed pagan rituals, holidays, stories, etc. That will not happen with Islam. What we appear to be seeing is the prolonged conflict with Islam having a mass Stockholm Syndrome effect on the western world, making people sympathetic to its followers even though their beliefs are not just completely counter to our own, but explicitly violently opposed.

Last edited by Crusaders; 06-13-17 at 11:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 06-13-17, 11:45 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 10-06-12
Location: over here
Posts: 25,737
cabezadecaballo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Those weren't busing scams. Those were a means to avoid prosecution by "social liberals" (SL) based upon Brown. SL didn't care that the schools weren't "established" by race, they were going to tie down the educational system because by economics and being real, personal choice people had self-segregated. Their point was going to be that the establishment didn't put the same resources into the schools serving primarily black neighborhoods and they were generally correct on that.

So school districts, and Ohio had some of the first, means to avoid that was to "open enroll" and bus the students to where they would provide racial balance. Of course black students saw advantage because in fact, many of the school districts WEREn't putting in the same resources in their neighborhoods. And even if the district was, the perception still existed.

"Busing" didn't destroy those neighborhoods. Natural migration out of those neighborhoods as economic success was achieved, choice to avoid new migrants and blacks ("white flight"),changed the make-up of those neighborhoods.

Were those neighborhoods by some distorted desire mandated to stay the same forever? Yeah, they're cute and gentrified modern "Little Itallies" but back in the day, they were dangerous as any and the schools, particularly the schools which spanned many ethnicities were hardly mono-chromatic. That's romanticized memory.

Busing actually provided a means for people to retain their neighborhood cultural identities, at the compromise that the school day might look somewhat differently. That the "whites" in those neighborhoods choose to find excuse to flee or take advantage of upward mobility, that goes on them, not on busing.
You're full of crap and clueless on this one.

How old are you ? Are you going to tell me that the people I've spoken with over the decades are liars ? Go blow smoke up someone else's azz. I'm not interested. I know better.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 06-13-17, 11:48 PM
MoeDude's Avatar
MoeDude MoeDude is offline
Save water....drink beer!
 
Join Date: 08-06-01
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 28,895
MoeDude is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Immigrants are the ones that created that diversity of internal culture that you respect. It's there because they didn't "assimilate," they integrated. That means they change and those already here, changed. We integrated. That's American, we're not The Borg.

I'm not getting the basis for your fear or your complaint and I'm much more anti-open door than anyone else I've seen give opinion on these forums.
Times change eastisbest. You're right about immigration playing a huge part of making America. But early immigrants wanted to be Americans. Sure we have celebrations recognizing different ethnic groups and it's become part of the blending. But from watching other countries and what's happening as the Muslim numbers grow it's not as much about blending as it is about changing.

Someone else mentioned that the Sharia Courts were about local hearings just with Muslims. I've stated earlier that's how it starts but there are areas in the U.K. where they are actually starting to blend the Sharia Courts with Civil Law & Courts
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 06-13-17, 11:52 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 10-06-12
Location: over here
Posts: 25,737
cabezadecaballo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
They coexist sure, just not very well.

Christianity absorbed pagan rituals, holidays, stories, etc. That will not happen with Islam. What we appear to be seeing is the prolonged conflict with Islam having a mass Stockholm Syndrome effect on the western world, making people sympathetic to its followers even though their beliefs are not just completely counter to our own, but explicitly violently opposed.
When Christianity was new, it's leaders aligned celebrations on the calendar to compete with existing pagan festivals. This was basically to provide competing revelry in an effort to keep former pagans from returning to their roots.

You are right - that won't be repeated today with two firmly established traditions.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-14-17, 08:02 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-26-03
Location: fairfield, ohio
Posts: 19,607
lotr10 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
I would hope it has. It's coexisted with Western or Judeo-Christian civilization for hundreds of years. Paganism and Christianity were very incompatible philosophies that ended up mixing for the most part to form what we know as Western civilization.

I think we can only hope that a similar degree of merging and coexistence will happen between the faiths that dominate the majority of the world's population. The Muslim faith seems incredibly resistant however and seems to be the only thing that is incompatible with EVERY way of life.
This book is worth reading for a look at Islam's bloody borders and the chances for reconciliation between this faith and all the other faiths/political systems in the world today:

https://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civiliz.../dp/1451628978

I think Huntington was spot on in the book. IMO this is one of the great modern books on international affairs.

As for Christians and "pagans" the early church was very clever in subsuming Pagan ritual & practice in some of the trappings of Christian practice (not ideology so much as culture & custom). Later (between 900 AD - 1400 AD) Christians did engage in military campaigns to forcefully convert pagans, particularly those in Northern Europe. But the relationship between Christianity and Islam over the last 1500 years can be best described as tense with long periods of "cold war" broken by intense moments of "hot" warfare.

I've always said that letting in LARGE numbers of Muslims from Muslim majority countries would be akin to letting in large numbers of Christians from 1000 AD and I would not want Medieval Christians flooding this country. So I ask why do we want the modern equivalent in 3rd world Muslim populations?
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-14-17, 02:17 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-27-06
Posts: 15,812
eastisbest will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
You're full of crap and clueless on this one.

How old are you ? Are you going to tell me that the people I've spoken with over the decades are liars ? Go blow smoke up someone else's azz. I'm not interested. I know better.
nd you switch to your usual method of response when what you wish to be true isn't supported by facts. You have no data, no logic or reasoning to support what you wish to be true.

Neighborhoods have gentrified, mixed and moved since neighborhoods were created before busses, let alone bussing was created. Little Italies become Little Irelands become Little Krakows become Little Havanas... Former residents succeed and move out and new immigrants move in. Use even a little bit of simple logic. The BUSING was designed to meet the conditions of Brown WITHOUT disrupting the neighborhood. Busing was the compromise to redistricting schools across naturally occurring boundaries, which would have changed already naturally occurring or gerrymandered voting patterns.

These are historical facts. The debates are there for all to see. Bussing forced not one person to change their living location in order to meet Brown. In fact bussing helped retain the composition of the voting districts and neighborhood racial make-ups, for just a bit longer. People were brought in and taken out again.

A thing that DID change racial make-up in a forced way? Government Housing because application for that was often to "balance" racial make-ups/re-gerrymander the districts. But bussing? Make an argument based upon some sort of facts but first consider cleaning up the slobber off your keyboard.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-15-17, 09:57 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 10-06-12
Location: over here
Posts: 25,737
cabezadecaballo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
nd you switch to your usual method of response when what you wish to be true isn't supported by facts. You have no data, no logic or reasoning to support what you wish to be true.

Neighborhoods have gentrified, mixed and moved since neighborhoods were created before busses, let alone bussing was created. Little Italies become Little Irelands become Little Krakows become Little Havanas... Former residents succeed and move out and new immigrants move in. Use even a little bit of simple logic. The BUSING was designed to meet the conditions of Brown WITHOUT disrupting the neighborhood. Busing was the compromise to redistricting schools across naturally occurring boundaries, which would have changed already naturally occurring or gerrymandered voting patterns.

These are historical facts. The debates are there for all to see. Bussing forced not one person to change their living location in order to meet Brown. In fact bussing helped retain the composition of the voting districts and neighborhood racial make-ups, for just a bit longer. People were brought in and taken out again.

A thing that DID change racial make-up in a forced way? Government Housing because application for that was often to "balance" racial make-ups/re-gerrymander the districts. But bussing? Make an argument based upon some sort of facts but first consider cleaning up the slobber off your keyboard.
You yourself have not cited anything whatsoever. And you evidently think "white flight" happened a half block at a time with no relationship to busing. Only a moron would compare the organic transformation of neighborhoods to busing-inspired white flight. Like I said, you are evidently without a clue.

Edify yourself.

https://www.law.umaryland.edu/marsha...cr12sch620.pdf

https://books.google.com/books?id=Kv...0order&f=false

http://www.nytimes.com/1972/05/28/ar...more.html?_r=0

Countless people left Cleveland because they would not have their student athlete burn an extra 10+ hrs a week in needless transportation. Many more wouldn't have their kids across town after little snafus like the Hough riots.

People live where they want to live and how they want to live if they can afford it. Many would have been content to stay in their old neighborhoods if unmolested by social engineers. The interpretation of the Constitution as it relates to Brown v. BoE Topeka extrapolated out into busing turned out to be misguided, foolish, destructive and counterproductive. It was a complete failure that you make sound like a mandate from God himself. Your political predecessors got their way, and they failed. Pretty simple.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-15-17, 10:06 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
Cooling Off
 
Join Date: 11-11-13
Location: Ezekiel 23:20
Posts: 5,423
ronnie mund can only hope to improve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
What we appear to be seeing is the prolonged conflict with Islam having a mass Stockholm Syndrome effect on the western world, making people sympathetic to its followers even though their beliefs are not just completely counter to our own, but explicitly violently opposed.
Yup, perfect way to describe it.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 06-15-17, 11:05 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-27-06
Posts: 15,812
eastisbest will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post

0) You yourself have not cited anything whatsoever. And you evidently think "white flight" happened a half block at a time with no relationship to busing.

1)Only a moron would compare the organic transformation of neighborhoods to busing-inspired white flight. Like I said, you are evidently without a clue.

2) Edify yourself.

https://www.law.umaryland.edu/marsha...cr12sch620.pdf

https://books.google.com/books?id=Kv...0order&f=false

http://www.nytimes.com/1972/05/28/ar...more.html?_r=0

3)
Countless people left Cleveland because they would not have their student athlete burn an extra 10+ hrs a week in needless transportation. Many more wouldn't have their kids across town after little snafus like the Hough riots.

4)
People live where they want to live and how they want to live if they can afford it. Many would have been content to stay in their old neighborhoods if unmolested by social engineers. The interpretation of the Constitution as it relates to Brown v. BoE Topeka extrapolated out into busing turned out to be misguided, foolish, destructive and counterproductive.

5) It was a complete failure that you make sound like a mandate from God himself. Your political predecessors got their way, and they failed. Pretty simple.
0) You didn't claim nor did I debate "a relationship." You said "caused." I did cite. I cited Brown and pointed out that no where in that decision was anything forcing people to relocate their living condition. There was no cause. Well sure if you're going to argue butterfly theory but it was peoples' choice to move. Busing no doubt encouraged some to make the choice sooner than they normally would have for any number of reasons. They'd have moved regardless busing. There's dynamics in the most homogenous of neighborhoods, you allude to it yourself a couple paragraphs later.

1) you shouldn't call yourself a moron, your self esteem is tottering as is.

2) Nope, not a single passage in any of your links states that busing forced anyone to change residence. Thanks for arguing my side.

3) Their choice. Busing laws did not force a single person to change their residence.

4) "Many" That's rather obscure but mostly contradicted by your own first argument. People tend to move towards their economic level. They have historically and will continue to relocate. They'd rather live next to a rich person of different ethnicity than a poor of their own. Human nature relocated those people. Not one of them jumped on a bus.

5)That sound you're hearing is that single synapse you have back-firing again. I never once defended nor gave opinion on the efficacy of busing ( or Brown), nor did you ask for one. You just went into your usual infantile rant.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 06-15-17, 11:24 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 10-06-12
Location: over here
Posts: 25,737
cabezadecaballo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
0) You didn't claim nor did I debate "a relationship." You said "caused." I did cite. I cited Brown and pointed out that no where in that decision was anything forcing people to relocate their living condition. There was no cause. Well sure if you're going to argue butterfly theory but it was peoples' choice to move. Busing no doubt encouraged some to make the choice sooner than they normally would have for any number of reasons. They'd have moved regardless busing. There's dynamics in the most homogenous of neighborhoods, you allude to it yourself a couple paragraphs later.

1) you shouldn't call yourself a moron, your self esteem is tottering as is.

2) Nope, not a single passage in any of your links states that busing forced anyone to change residence. Thanks for arguing my side.

3) Their choice. Busing laws did not force a single person to change their residence.

4) "Many" That's rather obscure but mostly contradicted by your own first argument. People tend to move towards their economic level. They have historically and will continue to relocate. They'd rather live next to a rich person of different ethnicity than a poor of their own. Human nature relocated those people. Not one of them jumped on a bus.

5)That sound you're hearing is that single synapse you have back-firing again. I never once defended nor gave opinion on the efficacy of busing ( or Brown), nor did you ask for one. You just went into your usual infantile rant.
You may as well say that a building catching fire does not make a person get up out of a chair and go outside. You'd be right - they just choose to leave. And you'd still be an idiot.

Like Dylan said, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 06-17-17, 06:09 PM
MoeDude's Avatar
MoeDude MoeDude is offline
Save water....drink beer!
 
Join Date: 08-06-01
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 28,895
MoeDude is on a distinguished road
Here is a good article regarding Islam: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/islam...ntent=06042017
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 06-17-17, 08:14 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-27-06
Posts: 15,812
eastisbest will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
You may as well say that a building catching fire does not make a person get up out of a chair and go outside. You'd be right - they just choose to leave. And you'd still be an idiot.

Like Dylan said, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
.. and they're still going to get to the root cause of the fire, because that's what matters.

The cities were stuck with Brown.

People had the opportunity to retain neighborhood character at the compromise of school integration. Remember, improving schools in minority predominant districts was no longer an option to avoid federal backlash. The politics of the situation left cities with options of forced relocation (which would have meant war) redistricting or busing students in and out. Busing versus redistricting were the political choices (though Toledo found another, described below). Government housing was added later, having a devastating effect on established neighborhoods, regardless the ethnicities there-in.

Which do YOU think would have led to a faster flight, busing or telling everyone in a voting district that the person they voted for was no longer their representative, this person you didn't vote for is?

People made their own choice. Not all fires have to be escaped by taking the low road but that's what was chosen by those that decided not to stay and fight to make it work. PERHAPs would have saved us decades of strife, if they'd made the "sacrifice" for the good of the country. But by leaving, they left so many open properties, lease rates were so low, the lowest economic moved in.

These statements are all in the history books, the research papers... and you asked, yes I'm old enough to recall it. I also study it (superficially) as a natural consequence of positions I've held.

Toledo avoided busing and desegregation lawsuits by creating something common today, open enrollment. Any student was able to attend any school if it would increase minority enrollment. This method left the school choice to the individual instead of the politician and guess what? The whites still fled.

Busing had nothing (or little) to do with it. It was going to happen as a natural consequence of economics and culturalism. Same as it had in every migration ever. Those with higher economics moved out, factories were closing, across the nation the cities had a glut of rental property and only lower income people, meaning primarily minority to fill it, many of those not even originally from the city but themselves on a post industrial migration from the South.

Facts.

And Dylan never ran a thing. A mouth piece, an entertainer with an opinion. That's it.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 06-18-17, 09:27 AM
king kong king kong is online now
Varsity
 
Join Date: 10-14-16
Posts: 75
king kong is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
Here is a good article regarding Islam: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/islam...ntent=06042017
Wow, thanks for sharing. Supports a lot of what I feel about the religion.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 06-18-17, 12:16 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-26-03
Location: fairfield, ohio
Posts: 19,607
lotr10 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
Here is a good article regarding Islam: https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/islam...ntent=06042017
He makes some very important observations about Islam including this:

One of the first things I learned concerned the leader of the terror cell, Omar Abdel Rahman, infamously known as the Blind Sheikh. Our government was portraying him as a wanton killer who was lying about Islam by preaching that it summoned Muslims to jihad or holy war. Far from a lunatic, however, he turned out to be a globally renowned scholar—a doctor of Islamic jurisprudence who graduated from al-Azhar University in Cairo, the seat of Sunni Islamic learning for over a millennium. His area of academic expertise was sharia—Islamic law.

And this:

I immediately began to wonder why American officials from President Bill Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno on down, officials who had no background in Muslim doctrine and culture, believed they knew more about Islam than the Blind Sheikh. Then something else dawned on me: the Blind Sheikh was not only blind; he was beset by several other medical handicaps. That seemed relevant. After all, terrorism is hard work. Here was a man incapable of doing anything that would be useful to a terrorist organization—he couldn’t build a bomb, hijack a plane, or carry out an assassination. Yet he was the unquestioned leader of the terror cell. Was this because there was more to his interpretation of Islamic doctrine than our government was conceding?


It always struck me as patronizing to not take these people at their word about what Islam represents. Sure there are wonderful, kind, compassionate and loving Muslims but that doesn't mean that the core tenant of their religion is "peace". There were kind, loving and even compassionate Vikings but one would never call their pagan religion "peaceful".

At the very least the observations & arguments made in this article and others need to be taken seriously and debated broadly among Americans. It is wrong to try to shut up people like this author because he forces us to confront uncomfortable truths. The FACT that the left and much of the media attempts to prevent us from discussing this issue openly (the media IGNORES it and many on the left shriek RACIST or ISLAMOPHOBE at any who do) is a disgrace.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 06-18-17, 12:46 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-27-06
Posts: 15,812
eastisbest will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post

Sure there are wonderful, kind, compassionate and loving Muslims but that doesn't mean that the core tenant of their religion is "peace". There were kind, loving and even compassionate Vikings but one would never call their pagan religion "peaceful".

'
By your measure, Judaism should be referred in the same breath. So own up, what are you saying about Jews? We wouldn't have to parse too far through the new testament to debate how "peaceful" Christianity but it is the same God that wrote the old testament, so again, why are you selectively applying your logic?

One billion people following a violent ideology, would be violent. There'd be nothing left of this world. Regardless specific words of any text, people will take what they will. We've no shortage of admittedly violent groups in this country and out, spouting Bible passages.

Last edited by eastisbest; 06-18-17 at 01:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 06-18-17, 05:30 PM
king kong king kong is online now
Varsity
 
Join Date: 10-14-16
Posts: 75
king kong is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
By your measure, Judaism should be referred in the same breath. So own up, what are you saying about Jews? We wouldn't have to parse too far through the new testament to debate how "peaceful" Christianity but it is the same God that wrote the old testament, so again, why are you selectively applying your logic?

One billion people following a violent ideology, would be violent. There'd be nothing left of this world. Regardless specific words of any text, people will take what they will. We've no shortage of admittedly violent groups in this country and out, spouting Bible passages.
Fanatics are fanatics no matter what god they are praying to. The difference is that our media and public are very quick to call out Christianity or Judaism when a group or groups do something extreme, but bend over backwards it seems to make sure not to broad brush stroke Islam!

I for one am sick and tired of watching politicians and news people cower when covering Islamic terrorism, its deplorable and needs called out, and yes I will call out any act of terror carried out in the name of any god!
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 06-18-17, 06:16 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-27-06
Posts: 15,812
eastisbest will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by king kong View Post

1) Fanatics are fanatics no matter what god they are praying to.

2) The difference is that our media and public are very quick to call out Christianity or Judaism when a group or groups do something extreme, but bend over backwards it seems to make sure not to broad brush stroke Islam!
1) Or not praying too. About all the reasoning I need.

2) I don't know what media you're focused on, but I won't doubt your experience. I'd only say, based upon your first comment, you wouldn't be joining the conservaclones here in condemning a person for their religion because of how media chooses to portray them, whether positively or negatively?

So in all honesty, shouldn't we remove the word "difference" from your quote? You're not judging all people who profess Islam based upon either the actions of a relatively few "fanatics" nor because (your experience) media (bend over backwards... to not broad brush stroke Islam." I would think you'd be in favor of that, just would prefer they treated all the same? Of the three religions, Islam would be about the last that would be accused of controlling our popular media.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 06-18-17, 06:19 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-27-06
Posts: 15,812
eastisbest will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by king kong View Post

1) Fanatics are fanatics no matter what god they are praying to.

2) The difference is that our media and public are very quick to call out Christianity or Judaism when a group or groups do something extreme, but bend over backwards it seems to make sure not to broad brush stroke Islam!
1) Or not praying too. About all the reasoning I need.

2) I don't know what media you're focused on, but I won't doubt your experience. I'd only say, based upon your first comment, you wouldn't be joining the conservaclones here in condemning a person for their religion because of how media chooses to portray them, whether positively or negatively?

So You're not judging all that profess to follow Islam based upon either the actions of a relatively few "fanatics" nor because (your experience) media (bend over backwards... to not broad brush stroke Islam." I would think you'd be in favor of that, just would prefer they treated all the same? Of the three religions, Islam would be about the last that would be accused of controlling our popular media.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 06-18-17, 07:01 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-26-03
Location: fairfield, ohio
Posts: 19,607
lotr10 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
By your measure, Judaism should be referred in the same breath. So own up, what are you saying about Jews? We wouldn't have to parse too far through the new testament to debate how "peaceful" Christianity but it is the same God that wrote the old testament, so again, why are you selectively applying your logic?

One billion people following a violent ideology, would be violent. There'd be nothing left of this world. Regardless specific words of any text, people will take what they will. We've no shortage of admittedly violent groups in this country and out, spouting Bible passages.
You make a tired old argument EastisBest. Here's the differences:

* So when in all the history of Judaism did the Jews embark on GLOBAL wars of RELIGIOUS conquest & conversion? Even in the roughest passages of the Old Testament Jewish wars were more about self defense than evangelism. Heck, when the Jews won their freedom from Pharaoh with God's help they LEFT Egypt to try to find the promised land and start a new life separate from the Pagans. Islamic doctrine would have had them stay in Egypt and convert the Egyptians by force if necessary.

* Jewish history since the conquest of Judea by the Romans has been one of maintaining a low profile in the pagan & Christian nations among which they were scattered. Their culture & religion appear to be an insular exercise in trying to be left alone to worship as they please. For example, Jews did not try to convert Romans or the Middle Ages European kingdoms in which they lived to Judaism.

* I'm agnostic today but as I recall from my Catholic religious upbringing the NEW Testament is the governing document of the Christian faiths. You seriously can't compare the religious doctrine of the New Testament to the religious doctrine of Islam. The ONLY thing that is comparable is that lots of Christians AND Muslims don't fully abide by their religious texts. In that I would agree that ALL religions share an element of hypocrisy by those who follow the various faiths.

As for your last point have you ever read Samuel Huntington's "The Clash of Civilizations"?

https://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civiliz.../dp/1451628978

He makes a compelling case that there are a billion folks involved in some level of religious violence all along the bloody borders of Islam.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 06-18-17, 09:14 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 10-06-14
Posts: 1,685
bigkat is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Oh it's funny you still think we're the leader of the Western or Free World
who do you think is the leader?
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 06-19-17, 07:49 AM
king kong king kong is online now
Varsity
 
Join Date: 10-14-16
Posts: 75
king kong is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
1) Of the three religions, Islam would be about the last that would be accused of controlling our popular media.
Not controlling the media, but of the 3, definitely the one that it seems people are afraid to slam! President Obama wouldn't give it the name radical islam, people in government afraid to say same thing, but put conservative christian not baking a cake or catering a lgbt marriage and the media and government are all over it!
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 06-19-17, 10:01 AM
MoeDude's Avatar
MoeDude MoeDude is offline
Save water....drink beer!
 
Join Date: 08-06-01
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 28,895
MoeDude is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
...2) I don't know what media you're focused on, but I won't doubt your experience. I'd only say, based upon your first comment, you wouldn't be joining the conservaclones ...
So in all honesty, shouldn't we remove the word "difference" from your quote? You're not judging all people who profess Islam based upon either the actions of a relatively few "fanatics" nor because (your experience) media (bend over backwards... to not broad brush stroke Islam." I would think you'd be in favor of that, just would prefer they treated all the same? Of the three religions, Islam would be about the last that would be accused of controlling our popular media.
I would assume you are classifying me as one of the conservaclones because of my attitude regarding the Islamic faith. In my mind this is what the problem is with Left leaning thought processes that lotr10 also references. You are quick to want to label those who don't exactly believe the way you do especially when confronted with information like what I shared in the link. The left is always ready with a new label and category to put people when they don't agree with the Left's logic.

I always try to accept people on an individual basis. No matter what race, religion sex etc. I enjoy the differences of individuals. But when you start analyzing a group, it's hard not to see the common attributes of any group both good and bad. The thing with Islam, as a group, as their numbers increase they become less tolerant of "different" beliefs and religions. I just laugh at people who want to tell me how peaceful US Muslims are. Of course they are because they are only 2% of the population so if they try to make waves they are currently out numbered. But in another article I shared it talks about how their birth rates are 6 times higher than what even the Hispanic growth has been in the US and that's only been in the 8 to 10 years.

You really do need to look closer at what is going on in Europe. We are not far behind if the Muslim numbers continue to rise. The thing that I've notice too is that even their different factions don't even get along. Look at all the strife in the Middle East for centuries and it's been between the various different religious beliefs and even within Muslims, you have Sunnis, Shiites etc. who are constantly at war with one another. Look how often you can find attempts of genocide to try and wipe the other side.

The Liberal Left is being very unrealistic with their move right now to make Muslim structure as a whole to be a viable way of life. One thing that really doesn't make sense is how any female can support this way of life. Women are treated as objects and second class citizens. It's beyond my understanding how a woman can truly support the Sharia Laws and way of life.

Last edited by MoeDude; 06-19-17 at 11:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 06-19-17, 03:54 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 07-28-16
Posts: 544
Indiandad is on a distinguished road
In a study recently released by the Pew Research Group they found that Muslims make up 1% (3.3 million) of the US population with a birth rate of 2.7 compared to 2.0 of non Muslims. At this rate coupled with current immigration levels they expect Muslims to be 2% of the American population by 2050.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:12 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz