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  #3421  
Old 08-08-18, 12:40 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
He had a good season in '16, I've never considered him a top 10-15 guy. I think you have to pitch more than half a season to be considered in that area.
Over his career, he has a W/L of 125-85; ERA 3.33; WHIP 1.190 (that's if you even know what that is, of course); WAR 32.1.
I could go on providing facts, but I would rather not keep humiliating you in front of your peers. All you have to do is admit that you're wrong about him.


Of course, if you have anything to back up your "argument" besides what you've "considered" -- in other words, nothing but flapping gums -- feel free to supply any evidence that 15 starters have been better than JC during his career.

Remember, you've said that you have NEVER considered him to be a top 10-15 guy.
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  #3422  
Old 08-08-18, 02:01 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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When are the Reds going to scratch Robert Stephenson off the list of prospects? He keeps getting opportunity after opportunity. The result? Always the same. He just can't keep from walking people.
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  #3423  
Old 08-08-18, 02:45 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
When are the Reds going to scratch Robert Stephenson off the list of prospects? He keeps getting opportunity after opportunity. The result? Always the same. He just can't keep from walking people.
I think at this point of the season, and with how Robert pitched in Lville this season, you have to give him 8-10 starts here in next 6 weeks. I'd call him a long shot, but he was a former #1 pick in 2011. Secondly, who else we going to run out there? Mahle's likely done for the season in Cincy. Homer, Castillo, Romano, Harvey and Disco are also pitching. Harvey likely to be gone any day now.

And you are correct...he keeps walking people and he'll be out of baseball in a few years.
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  #3424  
Old 08-08-18, 02:59 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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I agree with keeping him up and seeing what he does the rest of the year. I'm not going to get too worked up at one start. Sure, he needs to figure out the whole walks thing out but that's something that should be able to be fixed. It kinda looked like he was trying to pinpoint his location. See how it plays out.
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  #3425  
Old 08-08-18, 03:39 PM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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Maybe Stevenson will make a good reliever for an inning or two, possibly three. That is, if he doesn't make it as a starter.
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  #3426  
Old 08-08-18, 03:56 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
I agree with keeping him up and seeing what he does the rest of the year. I'm not going to get too worked up at one start. Sure, he needs to figure out the whole walks thing out but that's something that should be able to be fixed. It kinda looked like he was trying to pinpoint his location. See how it plays out.
I get it, but we're not talking about one start.
Over his Reds' "career" of 125 innings (spread out over the 2016/17/18 seasons) he has walked 83 batters.
Even this season at AAA, he has walked 57 in 113 innings. His minor league career -- beginning in 2012 -- has been pretty much the same.
I don't think this qualifies as giving up on someone right off the bat. At some point you have to make a judgement about someone. He looks like trade bait to me. Maybe a change of scenery would help him.
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  #3427  
Old 08-08-18, 07:32 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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I realize the stats but today he was over 1 walk per inning which would be way above his average. Obviously the scouting report's going to be to sit on him try to work a walk or at least get his pitch count up. He was just short of 80 pitches today in four innings. Not going to get it done in MLB. I'm fine with trading him but I'm not sure what his value is. I let him try to get through the rest of the season and see how things go. If they don't improve have a discussion with him about going to the bullpen. Think it'd be easier to make the switch in the offseason as compared to in the middle of one.
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  #3428  
Old 08-08-18, 07:48 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Over his career, he has a W/L of 125-85; ERA 3.33; WHIP 1.190 (that's if you even know what that is, of course); WAR 32.1.
I could go on providing facts, but I would rather not keep humiliating you in front of your peers. All you have to do is admit that you're wrong about him.


Of course, if you have anything to back up your "argument" besides what you've "considered" -- in other words, nothing but flapping gums -- feel free to supply any evidence that 15 starters have been better than JC during his career.

Remember, you've said that you have NEVER considered him to be a top 10-15 guy.
Thats because he considered him top 5
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  #3429  
Old 08-08-18, 09:44 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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I think itís hilarious 14red is crapping all over the best pitcher the reds organization has had in the last 25 years, maybe more, just because he wants to defend a sh*tty deal for Homer Bailey.
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  #3430  
Old 08-08-18, 10:29 PM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
I think itís hilarious 14red is crapping all over the best pitcher the reds organization has had in the last 25 years, maybe more, just because he wants to defend a sh*tty deal for Homer Bailey.
Wow EP, you all took me words right from my mouth!
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  #3431  
Old 08-09-18, 10:46 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
He had a good season in '16, I've never considered him a top 10-15 guy. I think you have to pitch more than half a season to be considered in that area.
Right. But you also said Verlander was not a #1. So your opinion is pretty much not useful. Most knowledgeable baseball people would have Cueto, pre-injury, as a top 10-15 pitcher.
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  #3432  
Old 08-09-18, 10:52 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Sounds like we all agree on Stephenson. Start him regularly the rest of the year, and then it's time to fish or cut bait. As Steve said, even with the good results in AAA this year, the walks remain an issue. And you can't have a bullpen guy with BB tendencies. So it is make or break time for him.
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  #3433  
Old 08-09-18, 02:58 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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If I was sounding like "Cut Him Now!", no, I agree with letting him pitch for the rest of the season.
Right now, he looks like his future is limited here; but if he works things out maybe he raises his value for a trade or even into competing for a spot in the spring.
He's fortunate that he's with the Reds, who have nothing to lose by keeping him through September. I'm not very hopeful, but you never know.
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  #3434  
Old 08-09-18, 03:29 PM
troyboy73 troyboy73 is offline
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You Never know!! That is what Joaquin Andujar always said!!
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  #3435  
Old 08-09-18, 04:52 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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What are your suggestions for if he get's beat up the rest of the year? You keep saying cut ties but he cost them little to nothing through at least next year when he'd hit arbitration and even then I'm not sure he'd get much of a payday. Even if they put him back in AAA it's not really hurting anything and maybe they can add him on in a trade. I'd rather keep him in the organization than release him, have the Cardinals pick him up and him win 15+ games and block the Reds from the playoffs.
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  #3436  
Old 08-09-18, 06:31 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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After this season, he's out of options. He has been with the organization since 2011, so expecting a sudden explosion of potential like winning 15+ games seems pretty unrealistic to me. I hope I'm wrong about that.

I tend to think the Reds' thinking is similar to mine and wolves82. If he doesn't show much for the rest of the year, I doubt that he'll be taking up a spot in the Reds' organization next year.
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  #3437  
Old 08-09-18, 06:43 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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He can accept a minor league assignment though and I'm not really sure where he could go without starting in the minors. He doesn't really have the chips in his stack per se
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  #3438  
Old 08-10-18, 08:13 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Billy Hamilton just executed a suicide squeeze that shocked everyone so much the the Diamondbacks threw the ball away and they scored two runs off of it. He would've been safe without the throw. Why Why Why don't we ever try this when he leads off?
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  #3439  
Old 08-11-18, 09:22 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Good outing by Harvey. 7 full with 2ER. Won't get the win but the Reds showed a lot of fight again in the 8th. We down 1 and scored 4 for the win. I have no clue why the Reds struggle with bottom feeder teams but have been really successful vs 1-2nd place teams.
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  #3440  
Old 08-11-18, 10:31 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
Good outing by Harvey. 7 full with 2ER. Won't get the win but the Reds showed a lot of fight again in the 8th. We down 1 and scored 4 for the win. I have no clue why the Reds struggle with bottom feeder teams but have been really successful vs 1-2nd place teams.
Inconsistent starting pitching.
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  #3441  
Old 08-12-18, 02:02 AM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Inconsistent starting pitching.
Are you trying to tell me that a team with the 4th highest ERA in baseball loses games because of pitching? Get out of here
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  #3442  
Old 08-12-18, 07:41 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
Are you trying to tell me that a team with the 4th highest ERA in baseball loses games because of pitching? Get out of here
Yes.
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  #3443  
Old 08-12-18, 11:47 AM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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Definitely a fun game to watch. Another one today, I hope.
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  #3444  
Old 08-12-18, 11:53 AM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Billy Hamilton has had a good couple of games. I saw an interview with him after he put down that wonderful suicide squeeze bunt. As we recall, he squared somewhat early (Perhaps too early for a suicide squeeze, but that's another topic) but still would have beat the throw to first because of the excellent bunt.
He said in the interview that he now realizes that he can square sooner and still get a base hit, due to his speed. I have 2 reactions to this:
1) That's tremendous news. Maybe now -- after all these years -- he can use the bunt as a major weapon in his arsenal.
2) Why in the f*** has it taken him this long to realize this? Does he not work on things every day like a professional baseball player should? He has been in pro baseball since 2009!
Overall, I'm anxious to see what happens from here. Will he put this into practice and become an offensive asset? Or, will we see the same ole Billy.
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  #3445  
Old 08-13-18, 09:18 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Billy Hamilton has had a good couple of games. I saw an interview with him after he put down that wonderful suicide squeeze bunt. As we recall, he squared somewhat early (Perhaps too early for a suicide squeeze, but that's another topic) but still would have beat the throw to first because of the excellent bunt.
He said in the interview that he now realizes that he can square sooner and still get a base hit, due to his speed. I have 2 reactions to this:
1) That's tremendous news. Maybe now -- after all these years -- he can use the bunt as a major weapon in his arsenal.
2) Why in the f*** has it taken him this long to realize this? Does he not work on things every day like a professional baseball player should? He has been in pro baseball since 2009!
Overall, I'm anxious to see what happens from here. Will he put this into practice and become an offensive asset? Or, will we see the same ole Billy.
While I do feel your overall frustration with Billy and his lack of bunting during his career, there is a distinct difference on him bunting in the situation he did Saturday night vs. normal situations.
When he bats with no one on base, the 3rd and 1st basemen both play inside the grass cutout, that coupled with the pitcher being about 50 ft. away makes it incredibly difficult to bunt for a hit. If anything, bringing those players in should help him be able to slap a hard ground ball by them.

We all wish he was as good at bunting as say, Bret Butler was, but it's just not that way.
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  #3446  
Old 08-13-18, 09:20 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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A couple of good starts over the weekend by DeSclafani and Harvey. It's certainly no secret what this team needs. You get mediocre to good starting pitching, and we're contenders, plain as that. We just got off to such a bad start the first month to 6 weeks and buried ourselves.
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  #3447  
Old 08-13-18, 10:53 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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heard a stat this weekend. When they hold opponents to 4 runs or less, they have the best winning percentage in the MLB.

So the rumor that their pitching is the problem is true apparently. only Indiandad seemed to know this.
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  #3448  
Old 08-13-18, 02:31 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Almost EVERY team in the majors scores at least 4 runs per game on average -- so wouldn't your stat be true for almost EVERY team?
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  #3449  
Old 08-13-18, 03:43 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post

So the rumor that their pitching is the problem is true apparently. only Indiandad seemed to know this.
So you didn't know before this that the Reds' pitching is the problem? I thought it was pretty obvious to everyone.

I think you're trying to throw some jabs at people on here, but I'm not sure it's working too well.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.
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  #3450  
Old 08-13-18, 05:25 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Almost EVERY team in the majors scores at least 4 runs per game on average -- so wouldn't your stat be true for almost EVERY team?
The Reds do it better than the rest...yes, we can twist numbers around, but IF, and I said IF, the Reds get decent starting pitching, they generally win.

Just heard a stat that the Indians have like 68 quality starts this season, the Reds 37... Shouldn't the Indians have a record like the Red Sox??? Their lack of offense and bullpen has killed them.

I've said if the Reds had Kluber and Bauer, we'd be in first place, hands down.
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