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  #91  
Old 04-03-18, 08:44 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
Interesting to see how the market plays out here regarding endorsements. I'd imagine that the black market for college stars is going to prove to be worth far more than the G-League market for minor leaguers.

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With the FBI sting, IMO college coaches and shoe companies are going to be reluctant to go the black market route. If you are a shoe company or an agent why not give guys like Bazley a good deal, do not have to worry about the FBI. I think Bazley will sign a good deal with a shoe company with escalators if he is drafted in the 1st rd. next season.
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  #92  
Old 04-03-18, 08:57 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
With the FBI sting, IMO college coaches and shoe companies are going to be reluctant to go the black market route. If you are a shoe company or an agent why not give guys like Bazley a good deal, do not have to worry about the FBI. I think Bazley will sign a good deal with a shoe company with escalators if he is drafted in the 1st rd. next season.
With the shoe companies being able to openly go after HS athletes, just imagine what a viper pit the upper echelons of the AAU will become!
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  #93  
Old 04-03-18, 09:11 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Not really.

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Okay so you have missed the entire last 9 months of college basketball.
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  #94  
Old 04-03-18, 11:27 AM
Roy Tucker Roy Tucker is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
With the FBI sting, IMO college coaches and shoe companies are going to be reluctant to go the black market route. If you are a shoe company or an agent why not give guys like Bazley a good deal, do not have to worry about the FBI. I think Bazley will sign a good deal with a shoe company with escalators if he is drafted in the 1st rd. next season.
Yeah, this is my opinion too. I have nothing really to base it on besides the shoe companies are awash in cash and always looking to be in on the next big thing. Signing him early on is an insurance policy and will be a "we believe in you and have from the beginning" message for if/when he becomes big. A 7 figure contract? No. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was a good 6 figure number. Enough to cover college if he gets a good financial guy to prevent him from spending it on hookers and champagne.
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  #95  
Old 04-04-18, 03:41 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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https://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...nba/485595002/

Syracuse men's basketball coach Jim Boeheim discussed former signee Darius Bazley on Monday, broaching the subject of his former recruit during an interview with ESPN's Mike Golic and Trey Wingo on Monday morning.

In choosing to pass over Syracuse in favor of developing in the G-League, Bazley said he hopes to be a trend-setter for recruits who believe the G-League offers a better developmental opportunity.

"I wish him well," Boeheim said. "I hope he does great. But I don't think it's the way it will be. I think it will be proven it's not the way to get to the NBA. ... The last 48 McDonald's All-Americans, 47 of them went to college. Of the next 48, 48 will go to college. It's the best route."

"Trae Young is the best example," Boeheim said. "If he came out last year he's the 30th pick in the draft. Maybe. He goes to college, he's at worst in the Top 10 because college helps you. I don't understand why everybody, everybody, doesn't say and see college really helps. Even if you are only there one year, it helps you get better. If you are really good, it gives you a platform. If you are not really good, you can see 'I've got to get better.'

"The G-League will never take that spot. I don't believe the NBA wants it to take that spot. It's very hard now to go from the G-League to the NBA because every NBA team has 17 players. The G-League has 300 players in it. How many of those guys, where is the room in the NBA for those guys? There isn't room."

Boeheim sees the G-League it a bit differently than many on this thread!
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  #96  
Old 04-04-18, 03:55 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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I think Boeheim is right if 47 of 48 McDonald's All-Americans continue to go to college. But if 47 of the next 48 go to the G-League rather than college, then I suspect his conclusions might be different. But that's why its a risk for Bazley to go this route. If this pays off for him, then he will have blazed the trail for the next group of McD's All-Americans that could have a proven and viable option than college. So, excuse me, but Boeheim's words about "wishing him well" ring hollow to me. He, along with the other college coaches, I'll guess are privately hoping this experiment is an utter failure.
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  #97  
Old 04-04-18, 04:32 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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If Trae Young had went to the G-League he still may have been a top - ten pick this year. Only maybe a little richer than what he is now. Plus Syracuse under Boeheim has not produced a lot of top NBA talent other than Carmelo Anthony and maybe Derrick Coleman.

Last edited by Stirred not Shaken; 04-04-18 at 04:48 PM.
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  #98  
Old 04-04-18, 06:46 PM
PeterDragon PeterDragon is offline
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Of course Boehiem isn't going to speak favorably on Bazley's decision. If you are recruiting McDonald's AA are you going to suggest to them that their is a better route to the NBA than attending there school? Highly doubtful.
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  #99  
Old 04-05-18, 12:49 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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None of this gets to the root of the matter- those who make the $ make the decisions. Is it better for the apparel/shoe companies? Who do they make more $ off- the NCAA or the NBA? Revenue driven policy - that is what will prevail here.
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  #100  
Old 04-05-18, 07:06 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Originally Posted by CometCountry View Post
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...nba/485595002/

Syracuse men's basketball coach Jim Boeheim discussed former signee Darius Bazley on Monday, broaching the subject of his former recruit during an interview with ESPN's Mike Golic and Trey Wingo on Monday morning.

In choosing to pass over Syracuse in favor of developing in the G-League, Bazley said he hopes to be a trend-setter for recruits who believe the G-League offers a better developmental opportunity.

"I wish him well," Boeheim said. "I hope he does great. But I don't think it's the way it will be. I think it will be proven it's not the way to get to the NBA. ... The last 48 McDonald's All-Americans, 47 of them went to college. Of the next 48, 48 will go to college. It's the best route."

"Trae Young is the best example," Boeheim said. "If he came out last year he's the 30th pick in the draft. Maybe. He goes to college, he's at worst in the Top 10 because college helps you. I don't understand why everybody, everybody, doesn't say and see college really helps. Even if you are only there one year, it helps you get better. If you are really good, it gives you a platform. If you are not really good, you can see 'I've got to get better.'

"The G-League will never take that spot. I don't believe the NBA wants it to take that spot. It's very hard now to go from the G-League to the NBA because every NBA team has 17 players. The G-League has 300 players in it. How many of those guys, where is the room in the NBA for those guys? There isn't room."

Boeheim sees the G-League it a bit differently than many on this thread!
I like Boeheim, I like watching Syracuse play, but as I watched them this year in the tourney I wondered who would play that style of ball if they wanted to reach the NBA. To me Syracuse style is more similar to IVY League deliberate offense and zone defense games and not the free athletic create off the dribble style of the NBA. Not surprised in the least this recruit decided to go a different direction, was very surprised he choose Syracuse to begin with.
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  #101  
Old 04-05-18, 07:19 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
I like Boeheim, I like watching Syracuse play, but as I watched them this year in the tourney I wondered who would play that style of ball if they wanted to reach the NBA. To me Syracuse style is more similar to IVY League deliberate offense and zone defense games and not the free athletic create off the dribble style of the NBA. Not surprised in the least this recruit decided to go a different direction, was very surprised he choose Syracuse to begin with.
He's had 47 players drafted in 41 years. Even if you exclude the 7 guys drafted in the 3rd or later rounds between 1979 and 1987 that's still 40 players in 41 years, nearly a guy a year. Not recent Kentucky level by any means, but the guy gets players drafted.
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  #102  
Old 04-05-18, 01:20 PM
Kurt Rambis Kurt Rambis is offline
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Boeheim is right.

I read Bazely's article in the player tribune, he made it very clear it was a "coaches idea" to skip college and try D-league.
Thats where he got the idea.

Unfortunate. A bad year in college, you can go back and recover. A bad year in D league and you're way behind. As one NBA person said on radio other day, D league is full of 26-27 year olds dying to get back into the NBA; they're not going to be team players with a teenager
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  #103  
Old 04-05-18, 06:15 PM
nelmo nelmo is offline
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I'm not opposed to someone taking Bazley's path. But having seen him play a few times, I don't see him having much success against guys much older than him. He can hold his own defensively and rebounding, but I didn't see him having much of an immediate offensive impact at Syracuse, let alone in the G League.
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  #104  
Old 04-05-18, 06:17 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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Originally Posted by nelmo View Post
I'm not opposed to someone taking Bazley's path. But having seen him play a few times, I don't see him having much success against guys much older than him. He can hold his own defensively and rebounding, but I didn't see him having much of an immediate offensive impact at Syracuse, let alone in the G League.
Bingo--saw him 6 times over 2 years--he would be a 10-12 ppg scorer at Syracuse his frosh year--good frosh year, but lots to learn and increase his body strength especially.
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  #105  
Old 04-06-18, 09:02 AM
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MoeDude MoeDude is offline
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I don't blame Bazley. It's a long shot at best but with the way the NCAA treats athletes I can't blame him for looking at an alternative. I've read a few books through the years about the NCAA and how athletes are treated and it really is a crime how the NCAA operates. I'm currently finishing up a book titled "Indentured" that is a real eye opener about just how crooked the NCAA is and how poorly they can treat athletes and their families. It's interesting to see all the blacks jumping on the BLM movement but you don't hear them screaming about the real black travesty and that's how black athletes are being treated by colleges. There are some lawsuits starting to get generated against the colleges so maybe it's just getting started.

But then this leads me to this:

Ballers Minor League - LaVar Ball

I don't particular care for this guy but he may be on to something. He wants to start a basketball minor league as an alternative to going to college and pay players anywhere from $3000/month to $10,000/month depending on ability. I know there have been other small leagues trying to serve as basketball minor leagues but it sounds like Ball is going to target kids right out of high school. I haven't heard anything since December but do you think this is feasible and a good idea?

Last edited by MoeDude; 04-06-18 at 09:14 AM.
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  #106  
Old 04-06-18, 11:07 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
I don't blame Bazley. It's a long shot at best but with the way the NCAA treats athletes I can't blame him for looking at an alternative. I've read a few books through the years about the NCAA and how athletes are treated and it really is a crime how the NCAA operates. I'm currently finishing up a book titled "Indentured" that is a real eye opener about just how crooked the NCAA is and how poorly they can treat athletes and their families. It's interesting to see all the blacks jumping on the BLM movement but you don't hear them screaming about the real black travesty and that's how black athletes are being treated by colleges. There are some lawsuits starting to get generated against the colleges so maybe it's just getting started.

But then this leads me to this:

Ballers Minor League - LaVar Ball

I don't particular care for this guy but he may be on to something. He wants to start a basketball minor league as an alternative to going to college and pay players anywhere from $3000/month to $10,000/month depending on ability. I know there have been other small leagues trying to serve as basketball minor leagues but it sounds like Ball is going to target kids right out of high school. I haven't heard anything since December but do you think this is feasible and a good idea?
Unless he has a TV contract this will provide the revenue, it's not going anywhere.
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  #107  
Old 04-06-18, 12:35 PM
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Unless he has a TV contract this will provide the revenue, it's not going anywhere.
Yea they mention that in the link. Ball is a hustler so nothing he does would surprise me. The ting is I don't think it's such a bad idea. So many of these young men are not college material for various reasons. I think his idea would be no different than someone going to a trade school. At least these young men would have a choice.

The thing that bothers me about the G League is the pittance they are being paid. At least Ball is trying to provide these prospects a livable wage.
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  #108  
Old 04-06-18, 02:28 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
He's had 47 players drafted in 41 years. Even if you exclude the 7 guys drafted in the 3rd or later rounds between 1979 and 1987 that's still 40 players in 41 years, nearly a guy a year. Not recent Kentucky level by any means, but the guy gets players drafted.
It's one thing to be drafted, and it's another thing to be successful in the league in which you were drafted. Ask (University of) Michigan football how guys like Braylon Edwards, Jabrill Peppers, Mario Manningham, and Mike Hart are doing in the NFL.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

How many of Boeheim's first round draft picks, since 2000, actually have done something in the NBA? Carmelo Anthony is low-hanging fruit, here. Only Dion Waiters and, although probably not anymore, Michael Carter-Williams, have done anything in recent memory. Jonny Flynn? Bust. Tyler Ennis? Likely going to be remembered as a bust. Rakeem Christmas, Fab Melo? All busts.

I guess I like Boeheim, but I'm cautious to put too much stock into what "guy whose job viability is contingent on high-level talent playing for him" has to say about this. He's a good coach that can win college games, but he doesn't produce that competitive a crop of NBA talent. I'm sure the fact that they don't play a zone (let alone a 2-3) in the NBA probably has something to do with why his kids often flame out in the NBA (because they're awful at defense!)
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  #109  
Old 04-07-18, 03:26 PM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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The kid can obviously do as he wants. I’m nobody to say what he should and shouldn’t do. However my personal opinion is he will get eaten alive in the nba and probably even the g league. He needs at least 3-4 years of college to grow physically and mentally.

I only saw him once this year, but he seems to not even be one of the top 10 players in Ohio, let alone top 10-20 in the country like many peg him.
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  #110  
Old 04-09-18, 07:32 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
It's one thing to be drafted, and it's another thing to be successful in the league in which you were drafted. Ask (University of) Michigan football how guys like Braylon Edwards, Jabrill Peppers, Mario Manningham, and Mike Hart are doing in the NFL.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

How many of Boeheim's first round draft picks, since 2000, actually have done something in the NBA? Carmelo Anthony is low-hanging fruit, here. Only Dion Waiters and, although probably not anymore, Michael Carter-Williams, have done anything in recent memory. Jonny Flynn? Bust. Tyler Ennis? Likely going to be remembered as a bust. Rakeem Christmas, Fab Melo? All busts.

I guess I like Boeheim, but I'm cautious to put too much stock into what "guy whose job viability is contingent on high-level talent playing for him" has to say about this. He's a good coach that can win college games, but he doesn't produce that competitive a crop of NBA talent. I'm sure the fact that they don't play a zone (let alone a 2-3) in the NBA probably has something to do with why his kids often flame out in the NBA (because they're awful at defense!)
Getting players in a position to be drafted is the best a college coach can do. If you go back and look at his recruits, the fact many got drafted would be considered a great coaching job by Boeheim. Michael Carter Williams was #26 in his own class, drafted #11. Ennis #23 in his class drafted at #18. Grant #48 in his class, drafted #39. Waiters #21 in his class, #4 in the draft.
A college coach gets kids from 1-5 years. What players do beyond that is no longer on the college coach. That's on the coaching of the professional team and the players themselves. Seriously, blaming a college coach because guys flame out when the coach is no longer involved? What an utterly moronic take. But since you wanna go that route...

Melo, low hanging fruit or not, was one of the ten best players in the NBA for many years. Not many college coaches can say they have produced that. Not sure why you brush that off as if it is no big deal (oh right, it doesn't fit your narrative). Waiters gets over 30 minutes a game for a playoff team in the NBA, has made just under $20 million (not counting this year) and just finished his 1st year of a 4 year, $52 million dollar deal. By the time his deal is over he'll have raked in over $70 million in NBA salary alone. Michael Carter Williams won ROY and is averaging 16 minutes a game and has made over $10 million at age 26. Flynn had some seriously damaged knees, he is a bust by injury not so much ability, weak point. Tyler Ennis was drafted outside the lottery where teams are looking for people who will be able to contribute, which Ennis does. Not a bust. Christmas was drafted in the 2nd round and still playing in the NBA. Not a bust. Fab Melo had played basketball for all of 4 years by the time he was drafted. Mentioning him weakens your argument. The fact Boeheim was able to get someone drafted despite playing ball for 4 years and having almost no offensive game whatsoever is impressive. There's also Jerami Grant who went from 2nd round pick to 20 minutes a game on possible NBA playoff team Oklahoma City Thunder.
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  #111  
Old 04-11-18, 03:09 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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I know he was only at Syracuse for one year but does Wesley Johnson count? He was a 2-star recruit who wound up getting drafted at #4 and is still getting significant NBA minutes at age 30.
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  #112  
Old 04-11-18, 03:33 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by Kurt Rambis View Post
Boeheim is right.

I read Bazely's article in the player tribune, he made it very clear it was a "coaches idea" to skip college and try D-league.
Thats where he got the idea.

Unfortunate. A bad year in college, you can go back and recover. A bad year in D league and you're way behind. As one NBA person said on radio other day, D league is full of 26-27 year olds dying to get back into the NBA; they're not going to be team players with a teenager
He's at least right unless and until G-league proves him wrong. If the league option becomes popular, it will eventrually be the source of the top picks.

One and done's are a scurge to university athletics IMO so I really prefer the minor league. I would guess I'm rooting for it.
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  #113  
Old 04-11-18, 03:42 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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Yeah it was nice last night to see a 10 year D/G League veteran 32 year old gray-haired man get to play his 1st NBA game for the Lakers last night--scored 19 points in his debut and likely swan song---Bazely may want to keep the other side of the G League in mind--that guy has to be happy he made an appearance in the NBA before calling it quits.
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  #114  
Old 04-12-18, 06:10 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Without using Google, name 2 or 3 players who skipped college and either went overseas or to the D league for a year and are successful NBA pros now (AKA, are rotation or better players on a team)? The list is very, VERY short. I can only think of Brandon Jennings off the top of my head, who had a few good seasons before having to go back overseas to find a job. The NCAA has turned into a developmental league for the NBA. The G-League isn't even close. As someone mentioned before, the G-League has turned into 23-28 year olds who are still clinging to that hope that they get called up and get garbage minutes with an NBA team (see Lakers on Tuesday night). The same thing is going to happen (is already happening) with the Ball brothers. I think they've realized that playing overseas isn't a good substitute for college and are probably regretting it.
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  #115  
Old 04-12-18, 06:51 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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The list is very very short because it's not been a thing by the best of the best high school players. How going g-league would affect those players' careers is really the only part of the debate important to the top college teams, I would think.

If they start going g-league, then we WILL see players drafted high out of g-league. I think for them, the decision is one more of life style, which for that one last young year of your life, do you want? Life of a college student hanging with age peers or life of a g-leaguer.

As for the 32 year old, he made the big league. I don't see the disparagement here. It's a success story for every minor league baseball player that wasn't quite the talent but made it eventually, even if only end of a season. Same in b-ball. Congrats to him for accomplishing a goal.
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  #116  
Old 04-12-18, 07:11 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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I'm still a little confused about how the G-league works honestly. Isn't the G-league still an NBA affiliate? How is a player allowed to just sign with a G-league team without being drafted first? Doesn't the 1 year out of high school rule still apply? That would be like a college baseball player signing with a Single-A baseball team after 1 year of college without actually being drafted by the organization (theres a rule in baseball that you if you go to college, you have to wait 3 years to get drafted if you don't sign out of high school FYI). Every team in the G-league has an NBA "big league team" affiliated with them. Just a weird thing I guess to me. I am not sure how works
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  #117  
Old 04-14-18, 01:09 AM
Bull_Elk Bull_Elk is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
I'm still a little confused about how the G-league works honestly. Isn't the G-league still an NBA affiliate? How is a player allowed to just sign with a G-league team without being drafted first? Doesn't the 1 year out of high school rule still apply? That would be like a college baseball player signing with a Single-A baseball team after 1 year of college without actually being drafted by the organization (theres a rule in baseball that you if you go to college, you have to wait 3 years to get drafted if you don't sign out of high school FYI). Every team in the G-league has an NBA "big league team" affiliated with them. Just a weird thing I guess to me. I am not sure how works
Paragraphs 4 thru 6 of this si.com article might clarify some things you are asking about the G-league:

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/03/29/br...ision-syracuse
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  #118  
Old 04-14-18, 09:27 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Now the interest in the G-League and its attendance is minimal, to say the least. But is that partly because the teams are stocked with players trying to earn a spot as the 12th man on the roster? Would the G-League's profile (and attendance) rise if the team were also stocked with players who may be Top 10 draft choices in the upcoming draft? If you go to a minor league baseball game, you'll see the same thing. Older players trying to extend their playing careers, side-by-side with the younger players the team is shepherding through the system. Now, I understand that there isn't a whole lot of comparisons to the structure of minor league baseball compared to the G-League. But if Bazley is even remotely successful, then maybe 3-5 players decide to follow him next year. Then who knows?
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  #119  
Old 04-14-18, 09:32 AM
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In my mind, one thing that will stand in the way of Bazley's development is that it is not necessarily in the team's interest to develop him. It's not like minor league baseball where the roster is completely tied to the major league ball club. If, say, Bazley went to the Canton Charge and was then a prospect of the Cavs, then the team would have a great interest in getting him ready for the NBA team. However, as it is, even if he lands with the Charge, does the team have the same interest in developing him to prepare him for the draft as it would to prepare him to make the next step to the Cavs' roster?
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  #120  
Old 04-14-18, 10:36 AM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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Bazely stats from the Nike USA vs. World Game in Portland last night:

Played 13 minutes (7th most minutes of 10 USA players)--3/5 Fg's, 0/1 on 3's, 6 points, 1 def rebound, 3 fouls--?

Best Player in Game--RJ Barrett from Canada played 30 minutes (going to Duke 1 year)-- 8/20 Fg's, 0/2 on 3's, 4/6 FT's, 20 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 5 steals--differens maker!!


https://www.usab.com/mens/nike-hoop-summit/stats.aspx
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