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  #31  
Old 03-29-18, 07:26 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by tcgobucks View Post
No kid is guaranteed to be a one and done. If you go to college and can play in the league then yep you leave. A lot of kids go to college and find out they aren't ready. Good thing for them is they can stay in school. Bazley doesn't have that option now. Does anyone think a kid that aberaged 15 pts a game in HS doesn't need some college to prepare him for the NBA? Who is telling this kid to skip college?
Maybe Bazley just didn't want to play school.
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  #32  
Old 03-29-18, 07:46 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Maybe Bazley just didn't want to play school.
Bingo Stirred--took the words right out of my mouth. By going to the G-League it allows him to play basketball 24-7. Doesn't have to "mess" with going to classes for a year at Syracuse. I agree with PhillyCat that a college degree is worth what the person who earned it does with it--most data does show that over the course of a "working lifetime" a person with a 4 year college degree will earn twce as much as someone with a high school diploma--unless they become a pro basketball player--Bazely needs to hope his Princeton cohort have given him the correct advice--time will tell.

Quote from Yahoo:"Family and friends rave about Bazley’s maturity and calm, believing if there is someone capable of this journey, it’s him. Bazley nods his head and makes it clear: He relishes the pressure the decision will bring."

I bet Princeton teammates and fans wished he'd have showed that "maturity and calm" and stayed on the bench in the tournament instead of coming out 5 feet on the court and getting the two game suspension--G-League probably has fines if he does it there.
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  #33  
Old 03-29-18, 08:02 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by CometCountry View Post
Bingo Stirred--took the words right out of my mouth. By going to the G-League it allows him to play basketball 24-7. Doesn't have to "mess" with going to classes for a year at Syracuse. I agree with PhillyCat that a college degree is worth what the person who earned it does with it--most data does show that over the course of a "working lifetime" a person with a 4 year college degree will earn twce as much as someone with a high school diploma--unless they become a pro basketball player--Bazely needs to hope his Princeton cohort have given him the correct advice--time will tell.

Quote from Yahoo:"Family and friends rave about Bazley’s maturity and calm, believing if there is someone capable of this journey, it’s him. Bazley nods his head and makes it clear: He relishes the pressure the decision will bring."

I bet Princeton teammates and fans wished he'd have showed that "maturity and calm" and stayed on the bench in the tournament instead of coming out 5 feet on the court and getting the two game suspension--G-League probably has fines if he does it there.
You should consider reading up on recent online publications about the educational experiences of “student-“athletes at big time D1 programs. More often than not, they’re forced into programs that are complete jokes and many athletes have noted that what they personally wanted to study in college was completely different from what the coaching staffs and athletic departments wanted them to study.
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  #34  
Old 03-29-18, 08:13 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
You should consider reading up on recent online publications about the educational experiences of “student-“athletes at big time D1 programs. More often than not, they’re forced into programs that are complete jokes and many athletes have noted that what they personally wanted to study in college was completely different from what the coaching staffs and athletic departments wanted them to study.
I have read plenty Dock--certainly what you say does happen in some instances. Remember students are adults in college and they take responsibility for their program of study at the college level. All 5 of my kids have determined what they wanted to pursue in college and beyond and confided in their college advisors/coaches--they get out of it what they put into it--a direct correlation for sure.

I'm not saying Bazely is off-base, but if it doesn't work out then a college degree is a great fall-back. Thanks again Dock!
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  #35  
Old 03-29-18, 08:15 PM
SeeYaSometime SeeYaSometime is offline
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I don't buy the bogus, pay the athletes. They are getting paid plenty. The cash equivalent of their tuition, books, room and board. Total that up and they are getting plenty. (Redundant use of plenty.)
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  #36  
Old 03-29-18, 08:30 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
You should consider reading up on recent online publications about the educational experiences of “student-“athletes at big time D1 programs. More often than not, they’re forced into programs that are complete jokes and many athletes have noted that what they personally wanted to study in college was completely different from what the coaching staffs and athletic departments wanted them to study.
No doubt that happens. But John Urschel also says hello.

Whether any of this is relevant to the thread topic isn't clear to me. What matters to Bazley are the choices available now to Bazley, not some abstract discussion of the value of time spent in college.
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  #37  
Old 03-29-18, 08:51 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
No doubt that happens. But John Urschel also says hello.

Whether any of this is relevant to the thread topic isn't clear to me. What matters to Bazley are the choices available now to Bazley, not some abstract discussion of the value of time spent in college.
Do you think Bazley pursuing the G-League is any different from a high school senior who signs to an MLB contract, bypassing college altogether? The only difference I can personally see is many baseball players have gone that rout before, whereas Bazley’s may as well be a new trail ablaze.

In my opinion, the “one year difference between (hs) senior year and NBA eligibility” was faulty from the start and it was only a matter of time until someone bucked the college route. Bazley may not have been the first to do such (Emmanuel Mudiay, or earlier?), but I’ll be interested to see if more players don’t follow in his footsteps. In defense of Bazley, given the scrutiny and investigations behind alleged improprieties surrounding the current college basketball landscape, I wouldn’t want to be on the D1 stage either.
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  #38  
Old 03-29-18, 09:05 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by SeeYaSometime View Post
I don't buy the bogus, pay the athletes. They are getting paid plenty. The cash equivalent of their tuition, books, room and board. Total that up and they are getting plenty. (Redundant use of plenty.)
Below is written by a former Purdue football player on his experience playing D1 athletics and the simultaneous academic experience.

Quote:
So while those on the outside are complaining of paying for school because that’s something they value, imagine getting something for free that you aren’t just not interested in, but also something you don’t really know what to do with it.
Same player notes that, before his D1 aspirations, he had dreams of doing engineering or athletic training, but was told “you can’t do football and ‘that’.”

https://t.co/R0wYhToC5q?amp=1
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  #39  
Old 03-29-18, 09:06 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
Do you think Bazley pursuing the G-League is any different from a high school senior who signs to an MLB contract, bypassing college altogether? The only difference I can personally see is many baseball players have gone that rout before, whereas Bazley’s may as well be a new trail ablaze.

In my opinion, the “one year difference between (hs) senior year and NBA eligibility” was faulty from the start and it was only a matter of time until someone bucked the college route. Bazley may not have been the first to do such (Emmanuel Mudiay, or earlier?), but I’ll be interested to see if more players don’t follow in his footsteps. In defense of Bazley, given the scrutiny and investigations behind alleged improprieties surrounding the current college basketball landscape, I wouldn’t want to be on the D1 stage either.
It was very commonly believed at the time, and nothing since has ever suggested otherwise to me, that Mudiay's hand was forced by the fact that the NCAA wasn't going to certify him for any credits he received during the two years he spent at Deion Sanders's prep school. It certainly didn't turn into a trend.

I'm going to assume Bazley has his reasons too, and inventing one for him (it's the money, it's the FBI investigations, it's the crappy academic experience awaiting too many athletes, etc.) that happens to fit one's own narrative about college sports doesn't do any good. When it's 10-20 players opting out and not just one every few years we can start talking about generalities.
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  #40  
Old 03-29-18, 09:17 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
It was very commonly believed at the time, and nothing since has ever suggested otherwise to me, that Mudiay's hand was forced by the fact that the NCAA wasn't going to certify him for any credits he received during the two years he spent at Deion Sanders's prep school. It certainly didn't turn into a trend.

I'm going to assume Bazley has his reasons too, and inventing one for him (it's the money, it's the FBI investigations, it's the crappy academic experience awaiting too many athletes, etc.) that happens to fit one's own narrative about college sports doesn't do any good. When it's 10-20 players opting out and not just one every few years we can start talking about generalities.
Fair point re: Mudiay, but, again... regarding Bazley and potentially others: D1 isn’t what it is cracked out to be, especially w/r/t attaining an education. Baseball allows for 17 year olds to sign pro (out of high school), and that players market is far more competitive in supply terms (in large part to the prevalence of Latin American prospects). NBA/NCAA is different because the supply of players that NBA organizations have the demand for is largely confined to the United States. When there is such short supply of talent that can make the NBA, why wouldn’t the NCAA and major college programs try to milk that cow for some cash— even if it is just for a year? Think that the “one year” rule was created to encourage DeAndre Ayton or Markelle Fultz to consider giving three-four years of college a go, in the hopes of attaining a degree? Heck no; Arizona and Washington already have tens of thousands of kids that are there for that reason: to get a degree. Difference between a basketball superstar and the next STEM superhero is there’s immediate money, and lots of it, to be made in an Ayton, Fultz or Bazley.
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  #41  
Old 03-29-18, 09:41 PM
Kurt Rambis Kurt Rambis is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
Would that be any different than if he spent a year in college and then entered the 2019 draft?
Yeah...if he had a good frosh year he'd be drafted and get gauranteed $. If he had a not so great year, he can be a sophomore
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  #42  
Old 03-29-18, 09:41 PM
Kurt Rambis Kurt Rambis is offline
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Originally Posted by oxat622 View Post
And as a huge follower of college basketball, I'm good with this. Ben Simmons made it no secret he was wasting his time in college. I want my college basketball players to at least be interested in earning a degree.

As a Princeton alum, I have to know, in the 2019 NBA draft, will he be announced as from Princeton High School or the Fort Wayne Mad Ants? This is important.
Finneytown
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  #43  
Old 03-29-18, 11:13 PM
Salesman Salesman is offline
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Originally Posted by Raider6309 View Post
Maybe 40 years ago a college degree was worth something but today a college degree isn't really worth much.
A college degree still means a great deal. It opens MANY doors that those with a HS diploma could never get through. If he graduates from a major university, alumni will be there to take care of him once he graduates. They introduce him to people who can employ him, or at least get more contacts in which to work with. The college degree PROVES to a potential employer you have the ability to learn, and that goes a long way in hiring somebody.
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  #44  
Old 03-30-18, 06:56 AM
America America is offline
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I think this is a poor decision. Foregoing a college education at Syracuse to play in the G-League doesn't seem worth it. His frame is weak and skinny; he has no muscle mass like Zion Williamson. One injury leads him broke, no degree or schooling, and passed up by the next guy in the 2019-2020 class. Again, like Vamps said, I prefer back to basics where players stayed the whole time at a particular school. It would actually make the game more fun because the players would develop better skills and the learn the fundamentals of the game.
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  #45  
Old 03-30-18, 07:45 AM
NewJacketCity NewJacketCity is offline
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I don't want to get into the college or pro debate. While I don't know the kid personally and it sounds like he's a good kid, it does seem as though this kid is chasing the grass on the other side of the fence.

In less then 2 years he plays at Finneytown and transfers to Cincinnati Princeton. Commits to Ohio State and then decommits because "he wants a bigger stage". Commits to Syracuse then decommits (because his dream is to play in the NBA and is the closest thing to it).

Different paths suit different people. Best of luck to the kid. I hope he finds what he's chasing, but I think he's going to find out at some point that commitment is commitment, work is work, and growth is growth, no matter where you are.
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  #46  
Old 03-30-18, 08:00 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by NewJacketCity View Post
I don't want to get into the college or pro debate. While I don't know the kid personally and it sounds like he's a good kid, it does seem as though this kid is chasing the grass on the other side of the fence.
Let's not be too hasty in putting this on the kid, as typically, there are other's that are influencing the chase......

.....and all too often, it's for the wrong reason.
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  #47  
Old 03-30-18, 08:11 AM
troyboy73 troyboy73 is offline
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Good for him. Does not deserve to be in a college classroom.
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  #48  
Old 03-30-18, 08:28 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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The big problem is hardly any of these kids are ready for the NBA. The NBA stands for No Boys Allowed. This is a league of grown men supporting their families. The best of
the best. Sure you have Garnett, James, Kobe, etc and for every 1 of them you have 50 guys who struggle. Most of the guys who go to college one year have a tough adjustment because of the skill level and length of the season. I would love to see the college football approach where they must play two years. There are great high school and college players everywhere suffering in everyday life because they did not make it. They coasted through life because of basketball and now have no education to fall back on because they assumed they would make a ton of money playing hoops. People always focus on the ones who make it but the big issue is the many that don't and still have 60+ years to live in society.

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  #49  
Old 03-30-18, 08:38 AM
NewJacketCity NewJacketCity is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Let's not be too hasty in putting this on the kid, as typically, there are other's that are influencing the chase......

.....and all too often, it's for the wrong reason.
I wholeheartedly agree. I wouldn't put this all on the kid, his support system is also huge part of this. In the end, however, the kid is the one that has to live with the outcomes of those decisions.
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  #50  
Old 03-30-18, 08:59 AM
Myron Myron is offline
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Bazley sees the writing on the wall: FBI is about to hammer the AAU-shoe company-college payola scheme and end that perk. So why do that for a year? Might as well hit the G-League.

And as far as college degrees not paying off, this is another one of the zombie lies that get started somewhere, somehow in our society and then just won’t die, despite plenty of available factual data (such as the four disparate, yet empirically-researched data that Kingpin2010 provided earlier) that dispels that zombie lie. Every reliable data source I’ve seen shows that the longer one stays in school, the higher their income.
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  #51  
Old 03-30-18, 09:29 AM
HardCorps HardCorps is offline
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Originally Posted by tcgobucks View Post
No kid is guaranteed to be a one and done. If you go to college and can play in the league then yep you leave. A lot of kids go to college and find out they aren't ready. Good thing for them is they can stay in school. Bazley doesn't have that option now. Does anyone think a kid that aberaged 15 pts a game in HS doesn't need some college to prepare him for the NBA? Who is telling this kid to skip college?
If you would have watched him play against Pick Cent, you would really ask yourself, what in the heck is this kid doing? He was outclassed on offense and defense by the Indiana University recruit from that Pick Cent team. No contest.
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  #52  
Old 03-30-18, 09:46 AM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by NewJacketCity View Post
...it does seem as though this kid is chasing the grass on the other side of the fence.

In less then 2 years he plays at Finneytown and transfers to Cincinnati Princeton....
That part seems a bit unfair. 2016 Finneytown was an unusual situation to say the least. Players were quitting en masse; it reached the point that the first thing I did when I got to the gym on a game night was check the wall to see if any more players' pictures had come down. By season's end they were calling up players from the JVs just to able to field a squad.

If his primary motivation were simply the chasing of greener grass, he never would have tried to make it work there in the first place.
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  #53  
Old 03-30-18, 09:48 AM
westa-k-ron1 westa-k-ron1 is offline
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So a kid wants to get paid to play basketball, a league is willing to employ hiim, and people have an issue with it? Where is the problem?
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  #54  
Old 03-30-18, 11:38 AM
SeeYaSometime SeeYaSometime is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
Below is written by a former Purdue football player on his experience playing D1 athletics and the simultaneous academic experience.


Same player notes that, before his D1 aspirations, he had dreams of doing engineering or athletic training, but was told “you can’t do football and ‘that’.”

https://t.co/R0wYhToC5q?amp=1
Sounds ungrateful to me. I guess being a parent who foot the bill for my own kids college educations is the source of my belief. Don't get me wrong, I do not regret being able to do that for my kids, and they in return let me know their appreciation.
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  #55  
Old 03-30-18, 11:48 AM
ringer2 ringer2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Raider6309 View Post
That's cherry picked data. Ive met a lot of people that say the worst thing they did was go to college. Massive debt for an average job. I have a degree and I'm pretty dumb
Not all college degrees are created equal.
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  #56  
Old 03-30-18, 01:12 PM
Over The Hills Over The Hills is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
That part seems a bit unfair. 2016 Finneytown was an unusual situation to say the least. Players were quitting en masse; it reached the point that the first thing I did when I got to the gym on a game night was check the wall to see if any more players' pictures had come down. By season's end they were calling up players from the JVs just to able to field a squad.



If his primary motivation were simply the chasing of greener grass, he never would have tried to make it work there in the first place.


Yeoman what happened at Finneytown in 2016 that all the players were quitting?



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  #57  
Old 03-30-18, 01:38 PM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Originally Posted by westa-k-ron1 View Post
So a kid wants to get paid to play basketball, a league is willing to employ hiim, and people have an issue with it? Where is the problem?
Really? He's giving up a minimum of 1 year of college playing under a great coach who could help him get better and move on to the NBA in a year....possibly making huge $$$. Instead he's skipping that opportunity to take a "job" that's barely paying minimum wage and really has no record of helping guys get better or advance to the next level. At some point, you'd think someone who this kid will listen to will tell him that it's a huge mistake. Going to 'Cuse, and having even 1 really good season would be a lot more beneficial than going to the G-league ever will.

Someone mentioned that baseball guys go from HS to the pros. The difference is that most kids that are doing that get drafted and get significant signing bonuses that allow them to be able to live on MiLB money (which is less than G-league) until they get to AAA or the majors where they can make the big money. No signing bonus for G-league guys

Last edited by tcgobucks; 03-30-18 at 02:23 PM.
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  #58  
Old 03-30-18, 01:56 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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They also have it in their contracts that the MLB team will pay for they education
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  #59  
Old 03-30-18, 02:42 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by Over The Hills View Post
Yeoman what happened at Finneytown in 2016 that all the players were quitting?
I don't even know whether I really know. I've got my thoughts on the subject, from hearing kids talk, and their parents, but Yappi's not really the place. And I know absolutely nothing about what Bazley thought of it all. As far as this thread's concerned, I think my only point is that Bazley was leaving a sinking ship. If your school's calculus teacher left and they couldn't or didn't replace him, would you ask a budding mathematician to stay anyway because tough times build character? Or would you find her a place where she can take the classes she needs?

----

The short version for public consumption:

There was a coaching change in 2014. The prior coach was a young guy who'd been successful there, won a league title which hadn't happened in a while, was well liked and respected as far as I could tell. But he decided, for personal reasons, to leave coaching. The succession plan didn't work out, and things spiraled down pretty quickly.

Whatever. The year after Bazley left we went 0-23; we haven't won a league game since. It wasn't, and still isn't, a thriving program. Or department for that matter. My thoughts about boys basketball don't explain why the football team's lost 33 games in a row, volleyball's lost their last 53 league games, girls basketball just went 1-19.... It's a mess.

If anybody wants more than that, a public forum's not the place. I'll tell you over a beer.
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  #60  
Old 03-30-18, 02:54 PM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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Originally Posted by westa-k-ron1 View Post
So a kid wants to get paid to play basketball, a league is willing to employ hiim, and people have an issue with it? Where is the problem?
You have a lot of bitter old men and women on this site that think they should be able to control the lives of other people's children because they play sports. It's sad really.
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