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  #121  
Old 03-27-18, 03:41 PM
scsweeper19 scsweeper19 is offline
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Just in case anyone was wondering what type of young men are playing basketball at DP, this news story shows what type of character these young men have.

http://www.fox19.com/story/37812008/...n-at-childrens
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  #122  
Old 03-27-18, 05:01 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by Purcell til I die View Post
Ok then their is no difference in deer park then because that community was in need of something positive just because you donít like how it was done or the way it feels does not mean itís wrong or you should not be able to question accomplishments of another school but not your own when catholic schools are using dollars an resources that might not be ideal but itís within in their power all Iím saying is all these successful schools bend rules an stretch the truth why is this one school the only being talked about..an itís because itís something new an not the norm..if I was highschool coach I would be recruiting too like they all do that day of neighborhood kids staying in neighborhood school has long passed..then I see people say what about the kids at dp that been waiting too play their whole life at dp...itís called working on your game Iím sure Moeller cuts decent kids every year that dreamed of playin for Moeller their whole lives what about those kids smh...not directed towards you but itís a bunch of foolery on this post mix with hate on dp anybody with 2 eyes can see that ...
The only reason DP is being discussed is because it is such an extreme case and because a kid went on TV and told the truth instead of what was put on the OHSAA exemption form. That's really it- if it weren't for the fact that the parents came on yappi and tried to say everyone was hating on them for no reason or the coach didn't go on tv to say it was because of race there would have been grumbling but not much else. This is such an extraordinary breach of the rules with proof showing they were broken that it is just boggling that it is trying to be passed off as "everyone is doing it".
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  #123  
Old 03-27-18, 05:01 PM
Static Static is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Crusada View Post
Not exactly an outsider.
I grew up in the district and have family teaching there.
Eligibility at Deer Park requires only a 1.2 GPA.
Multiple failing grades are allowed.
One of these geniuses is carrying a 63 average in a less than academic class because he rarely shows up to class!
This is what is tolerated in the Park!
More false information. Deer Park lowered eligibility to a 1.3GPA and the class passing score to 60 from 65 so more students can play. The state minimum is only 1.0 but Deer Park set a much higher standard. Also, I hear the ADs board member mother spends hours tutoring the players to keep them eligible. So don’t try to make it seem like the board is not aware who is on their team. Their actions show they are completely behind this team. So wonderful to see them visiting at the hospital. A real fairytale ending to winning the state championship. When are the movie executives coming out!
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  #124  
Old 03-27-18, 05:18 PM
yappimember67 yappimember67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
More false information. Deer Park lowered eligibility to a 1.3GPA and the class passing score to 60 from 65 so more students can play. The state minimum is only 1.0 but Deer Park set a much higher standard. Also, I hear the ADs board member mother spends hours tutoring the players to keep them eligible. So donít try to make it seem like the board is not aware who is on their team. Their actions show they are completely behind this team. So wonderful to see them visiting at the hospital. A real fairytale ending to winning the state championship. When are the movie executives coming out!
I don't know if a 1.3 GPA exactly qualifies as a "much higher standard".
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  #125  
Old 03-27-18, 05:22 PM
yappimember67 yappimember67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Purcell til I die View Post
This thread is sad when adults talk about making someone aware to take away a scholarship for college wow did not know it hurt people this much too see dp win...from what I was told from a few friends at the game was most of those players were cast offs that didn’t play much at their schools they were at an the coaches did not want them from what I hear mark wise is not a transfer an how can you blame the coach for transferring his kid out of a school an coaching him himself..Moeller kids go to Moeller for sports not education let’s be honest an that is true for every highschool exceptional in sports...if Moeller was terrible kids wouldn’t want to go to a all boy school just my opinion....
I've worked in private elementary schools and this could not be further from the truth. Are there some kids that go to Moeller for the athletics? Yes. But a majority of parents are sending their children for academic and/or spiritual reasons.
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  #126  
Old 03-27-18, 06:02 PM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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Originally Posted by scsweeper19 View Post
Just in case anyone was wondering what type of young men are playing basketball at DP, this news story shows what type of character these young men have.

http://www.fox19.com/story/37812008/...n-at-childrens
Great story. Thanks for sharing. It's so nice to hear positive news about kids.
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  #127  
Old 03-27-18, 07:27 PM
Youknow Youknow is offline
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Originally Posted by coltfan76 View Post
When they are bringing football players in from 40-50 miles away, that is a loophole.
Moeller isnít a closed district though. How is that a loophole? You can live anywhere and go to moeller
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  #128  
Old 03-27-18, 08:03 PM
Youknow Youknow is offline
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Hereís the bottom line really with all of the deer park stuff. Itís not sustainable. Thereís no ending thatís going to prove all the dp critics wrong. Gentry gets caught and fired and all the kids that moved into deer park wonít be there anymore. Or he leaves in a couple years and all the kids that moved into deer park will leave. Either way proves everyone right. Thatís how it always goes. See Aiken after Ellison left. DP loses Rose, Mcentire this year. Thatís 30+ pts a game. Thereís Iím sure some others moving in or have moved in already. I noticed 2 kids in uniform in dp state champ pic that havenít played a sec all year. One is always in street clothes the other Iíve never seen. Maybe they can cover those pts. Or maybe the kid that was sitting at the end of the bench in sunglasses vs Afrocentric but isnít in team photos. Who knows.
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  #129  
Old 03-28-18, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Purcell til I die View Post
Ok then their is no difference in deer park then because that community was in need of something positive ...
Many public schools have gone to open enrollment because of the extra state money they get when they get kids from outside their normal neighborhood boundaries. I have no problem with that since the way state funding works allows it. I don't really care about Deer Park in particular but what I don't like are these traveling AAU All Star teams that find a school and take over that school for two or three years. That's a lot different than what Moeller and other private schools handle it and even Coombs at Colerain for football. You build a solid program from the ground up and you have kids come in committed to their 4 years of high school.

I'm happy for the kids that win a state tournament because no matter what school you attend you have to put in the hard work to get that trophy. I just don't think the Traveling AAU All Stars is the way to go about it for a lot of reasons. If you look at your programs that are in the top ten year in and year out it's because they've built a program from the inside out and make it desirable for top athletes to want to come there. You watch what happens at Deer Park. Will Gentry stay around after his son graduates, and in the next two years how many AAU stars will he bring in to help support his son?

All you have to do is look at North College Hill for what I mean. NCH has had some limited success in basketball(this year they won their first District Title since 2008) even before the Mayo circus came to town a few years ago. They were shopping around town before they landed at NCH. After they were gone I think NCH has had one decent season since but nothing like when they had the AAU All Stars.

Again, I don't have a thing against open enrollment or any school building a program that establishes itself as a winning program because it doesn't just take talent it takes hard work. I'm just not a fan of the Traveling AAU All Stars.

Last edited by MoeDude; 03-28-18 at 09:04 AM.
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  #130  
Old 03-28-18, 08:48 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
Many public schools have gone to open enrollment because of the extra state money they get when they get kids from outside their normal neighborhood boundaries. I have no problem with that since the way state funding works allows it. I don't really care about Deer Park in particular but what I don't like are these traveling AAU All Star teams that find a school and take over that school for two or three years. That's a lot different than what Moeller and other private schools handle it and even Coombs at Colerain for football. You build a solid program from the ground up and you have kids come in committed to their 4 years of high school.

I'm happy for the kids that win a state tournament because no matter what school you attend you have to put in the hard work to get that trophy. I just don't think the Traveling AAU All Stars is the way to go about it for a lot of reasons. If you look at your programs that are in the top ten year in and year out it's because they've built a program from the inside out and make it desirable for top athletes to want to come there. You watch what happens at Deer Park. Will Gentry stay around after his son graduates, and in the next two years how many AAU stars will he bring in to help support his son?

All you have to do is look at North College Hill for what I mean. NCH has had some limited success in basketball even before the Mayo circus came to town a few years ago. They were shopping around town before they landed at NCH. After they were gone I think NCH has had one decent season since but nothing like when they had the AAU All Stars.

Again, I don't have a thing against open enrollment or any school building a program that establishes itself as a winning program because it doesn't just take talent it takes hard work. I'm just not a fan of the Traveling AAU All Stars.
Just FYI- Deer Park is not open enrollment. 10 basketball players "moved" into the small district in 12 months...
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  #131  
Old 03-28-18, 08:49 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
That actually is what happens. The appeals panel is selected from a pool of member superintendents. It's not 100% independent, but it's pretty independent.
The main issue I have with the Appeals Panel is that it is just that, an appeals panel! What I mean by that is that they don't render the initial decision, the Executive Director does. The purpose of the Appeals Panel is to review that decision to see, basically, if the Executive Director abused his or her discretion. It is an appellate standard of review, rather than being the trier of the facts. And an "abuse of discretion" standard is vastly different than a "preponderance of the evidence" standard. It is certainly better than nothing, don't get me wrong. But I always thought the process would be much more defensible if it takes the Executive Director out of the decision-making role in these cases.
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  #132  
Old 03-28-18, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
Just FYI- Deer Park is not open enrollment. 10 basketball players "moved" into the small district in 12 months...
I know they are not open, but I was just referencing the open enrollment tactic being used by schools to garner more money from the state. I know the Deer Park players moved into Deer Park's district but it's still a group of young men who've played together in AAU and they didn't go to Deer Park for 2 or 3 years much less 4.
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  #133  
Old 03-28-18, 09:20 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
I know they are not open, but I was just referencing the open enrollment tactic being used by schools to garner more money from the state. I know the Deer Park players moved into Deer Park's district but it's still a group of young men who've played together in AAU and they didn't go to Deer Park for 2 or 3 years much less 4.
This post also points out how AAU has changed the game. You hear a lot about how its great when kids who play together since the second grade win a title. But with AAU, a lot of these kids ARE playing together since the 2nd grade; just not in CYO or in any other community league. I have no idea about the Deer Park situation. But in many situations, that is the case. So while the players may not have a history with Deer Park, for example, they may very well have a history with each other. Again, it doesn't make it right or wrong, but just adds another layer to a complicated issue.
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  #134  
Old 03-28-18, 09:47 AM
Purcell til I die Purcell til I die is offline
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
I know they are not open, but I was just referencing the open enrollment tactic being used by schools to garner more money from the state. I know the Deer Park players moved into Deer Park's district but it's still a group of young men who've played together in AAU and they didn't go to Deer Park for 2 or 3 years much less 4.
I have no gripe with what you say but I believe this is a new era just like coach K and others had too adjust too the one and done rule this is no different everyone is caught up in the spirit of the rule or code...if a kid moves an shows up in district too play basketball you as a coach will not deny that kid the opportunity to play... public schools an small district schools numbers are down for sports dramatically across the board so if I am a coach an I know this why would I not use the rules to my advantage...every coach does but they wonít admit too it..I just believe the days of just sitting around waiting on kids too come to your school are over...
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  #135  
Old 03-28-18, 10:00 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by Purcell til I die View Post
I have no gripe with what you say but I believe this is a new era just like coach K and others had too adjust too the one and done rule this is no different everyone is caught up in the spirit of the rule or code...if a kid moves an shows up in district too play basketball you as a coach will not deny that kid the opportunity to play... public schools an small district schools numbers are down for sports dramatically across the board so if I am a coach an I know this why would I not use the rules to my advantage...every coach does but they wonít admit too it..I just believe the days of just sitting around waiting on kids too come to your school are over...

That may be the current scenario but lying about it then yelling at people that you didn't cheat the system or that you are entitled to isn't the way to go. Like I said there would have been some grumbling and finger pointing on here with that many transfers, but when the DP people came in here calling everybody jealous haters and racists because of their *success that's when the problems started.
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  #136  
Old 03-28-18, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
This post also points out how AAU has changed the game. You hear a lot about how its great when kids who play together since the second grade win a title. But with AAU, a lot of these kids ARE playing together since the 2nd grade; just not in CYO or in any other community league. I have no idea about the Deer Park situation. But in many situations, that is the case. So while the players may not have a history with Deer Park, for example, they may very well have a history with each other. Again, it doesn't make it right or wrong, but just adds another layer to a complicated issue.
You make a valid point and it is all part of the change. I guess my issue is that there is more to high school years than just one sport. IMO these families and guardians that are constantly moving their children from school to school because of a sport, are missing a bigger picture. High school is a mixed bag full of emotion, friendships and experiences. I just think if you are moving your kids around so much that you are not gaining the full experience and are pretty much limiting yourself to just knowing people that are associated with your sport. It's only a small percentage of these teenagers that go on to success at a professional level in their chosen sport. Socially and educationally I believe you are short changing these young people if you are placing so much emphasis on the one area of their youth.
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  #137  
Old 03-28-18, 11:07 AM
CoreyAlbertson513 CoreyAlbertson513 is offline
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
I know they are not open, but I was just referencing the open enrollment tactic being used by schools to garner more money from the state. I know the Deer Park players moved into Deer Park's district but it's still a group of young men who've played together in AAU and they didn't go to Deer Park for 2 or 3 years much less 4.
Last year's AAU teams...

Damani McEntire - No idea, was NOT an Ohio team
Mark Wise - Played for several teams throughout the year
Steve Gentry Jr - Cincy Lakers
Ibrahima Athie - Cincy Lakers (different age group then Steve)
Joe Hocker - Did not play AAU
Jalen Rose - Played for Club Ohio (did he play an event or two with Team One, Ms. Rose?)

Either way, these kids were not all on the same AAU team as suggested here. Nor did any AAU coach have any influence on any transfer decisions.

I just don't like to see AAU cast as the villain here when it has nothing to do with whatever problem you see with DP.

I think this thread has gotten way out of hand. We've got people questioning amateur statuses of kids and talking about personal lives of kids; and no one is saying this, none of these kids are exactly the next LeBron James. These are normal HS kids with limited to almost zero credentials before coming to DP.

Come on guys, get over it.
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  #138  
Old 03-28-18, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreyAlbertson513 View Post
Last year's AAU teams...

Damani McEntire - No idea, was NOT an Ohio team
Mark Wise - Played for several teams throughout the year
Steve Gentry Jr - Cincy Lakers
Ibrahima Athie - Cincy Lakers (different age group then Steve)
Joe Hocker - Did not play AAU
Jalen Rose - Played for Club Ohio (did he play an event or two with Team One, Ms. Rose?)

Either way, these kids were not all on the same AAU team as suggested here. Nor did any AAU coach have any influence on any transfer decisions.

I just don't like to see AAU cast as the villain here when it has nothing to do with whatever problem you see with DP.

I think this thread has gotten way out of hand. We've got people questioning amateur statuses of kids and talking about personal lives of kids; and no one is saying this, none of these kids are exactly the next LeBron James. These are normal HS kids with limited to almost zero credentials before coming to DP.

Come on guys, get over it.
I stand corrected from last year's information. I was led to believe they all played on the same AAU team. As for AAU being cast as a villain, well only the families involved know for sure why they all ended up at Deer Park but it would be very surprising if influences from AAU weren't involved some how.

You and I will have to agree to disagree as far as AAU in general is concerned. It is what it is and is here to stay for a while but IMO it's bad for youth sports for a lot of reasons.
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  #139  
Old 03-28-18, 12:45 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is online now
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
More false information. Deer Park lowered eligibility to a 1.3GPA and the class passing score to 60 from 65 so more students can play. The state minimum is only 1.0 but Deer Park set a much higher standard. Also, I hear the ADs board member mother spends hours tutoring the players to keep them eligible. So donít try to make it seem like the board is not aware who is on their team. Their actions show they are completely behind this team. So wonderful to see them visiting at the hospital. A real fairytale ending to winning the state championship. When are the movie executives coming out!
1.3 GPA and tutoring at a H.S. are you serious. Do all students get tutoring or just bball players. The 1.3 GPA is a joke to be eligible.
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  #140  
Old 03-28-18, 03:44 PM
scsweeper19 scsweeper19 is offline
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I stand corrected from last year's information. I was led to believe they all played on the same AAU team. As for AAU being cast as a villain, well only the families involved know for sure why they all ended up at Deer Park but it would be very surprising if influences from AAU weren't involved some how.

You and I will have to agree to disagree as far as AAU in general is concerned. It is what it is and is here to stay for a while but IMO it's bad for youth sports for a lot of reasons.
Per OHSAA rules only two members(50% rule) from a high school team are able to be on the same AAU/Club team. OHSAA makes it impossible for an entire team to play together.
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  #141  
Old 03-28-18, 03:47 PM
scsweeper19 scsweeper19 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
1.3 GPA and tutoring at a H.S. are you serious. Do all students get tutoring or just bball players. The 1.3 GPA is a joke to be eligible.
At DP they have a homework club that all students can attend, and the 1.3 GPA is higher then what OHSAA require, so maybe OHSAA's requirements are a joke. What are some of the other schools requirements?
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  #142  
Old 03-28-18, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by scsweeper19 View Post
Per OHSAA rules only two members(50% rule) from a high school team are able to be on the same AAU/Club team. OHSAA makes it impossible for an entire team to play together.
I could be wrong but if no more than 2 played at the same high school last year is where it would matter. These move-ins didnt attend the same high school last year, right? If they play aau this spring they couldn't be on the same team. Not sure how many are seniors though.
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  #143  
Old 03-28-18, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by scsweeper19 View Post
At DP they have a homework club that all students can attend, and the 1.3 GPA is higher then what OHSAA require, so maybe OHSAA's requirements are a joke. What are some of the other schools requirements?
Both GPA's are jokes.
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  #144  
Old 03-28-18, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
1.3 GPA and tutoring at a H.S. are you serious. Do all students get tutoring or just bball players. The 1.3 GPA is a joke to be eligible.
Not every student has the support at home to maintain a high GPA. We all know the impact of sports on a studentís life. Why deny students opportunities because of their parents. So what if she is only tutoring bbplayers. This team has been such a blessing to the school and community. Great students and a fantastic coach who also works as an aide in the district. It is a shame he is not a teacher.

Stop the championship shaming! Future state champs 2019.
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  #145  
Old 03-28-18, 08:03 PM
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1.3 GPA???!!! Any school that sets the bar this low is doing nothing for the student athlete that wants to pursue athletics at the collegiate level. Yes, I am familiar with the OHSAA's even lower standards. This is unbelievable. Any student-athlete that strives towards a 1.3 will not make it at the next level. My youngest went the public school route, needed a 2.0 to remain eligible. Further, if the student had two Fs showing on their weekly eligibility list they would be deemed ineligible for that week's contests. What are the eligibility requirements at other schools?
The NCAA eligibility requirements are much higher than 1.3 GPA. NCAA only looks at core courses, college prep. They "lock in" the first 12 core courses you take after your Junior year. So, if you blow a core course as a frosh you damn well better make it up before Junior year is done. A minimum 2.3 GPA is required in these core courses for DI. DII is lower I believe. They determine eligibility based on GPA and ACT/SAT score. They use a sliding scale. So if you squeak by with a 2.3 you need to score well on either ACT or SAT.
So that D average isn't going to cut it. 1.3, holy smokes!
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  #146  
Old 03-28-18, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
Not every student has the support at home to maintain a high GPA. We all know the impact of sports on a student’s life. Why deny students opportunities because of their parents. So what if she is only tutoring bbplayers. This team has been such a blessing to the school and community. Great students and a fantastic coach who also works as an aide in the district. It is a shame he is not a teacher.

Stop the championship shaming! Future state champs 2019.
Everything you just said in this post is ridiculous. The fact that she only makes herself available to the new kids (which is what most of them are)is the problem everyone is talking about. Did she help kids on the team before they all showed up? Or are these guys getting special treatment? Sounds to me they are getting special treatment. Don’t give me the whole their parents aren’t involved speech. Their parents were involved enough to move from their previous homes and find new residence in a new neighborhood so their child could play ball for a coach. Even those “homeless” kids on the team have someone that took on the responsibility. I bet there a bunch of kids at deer park who’s parents aren’t involved and don’t get the resources of ms. George. The fact that deer park holds their standard to a 1.3 Gpa is just sad and setting these guys up for failure at the next level. And people on here act like deer park challenged their kids raising it from a 1.2. Are you serious? Based on what teams have coming back i would beg to differ on do being state champs next year. Of course all that can change depending on what new residents deer park gets between now and then.

Last edited by Youknow; 03-28-18 at 09:31 PM.
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  #147  
Old 03-28-18, 09:37 PM
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correct me if I am wrong but is the minimum GPA for the grading period or cummulative? I know plenty of kids who screwed up, struggled or bombed a test or two early in the quarter and have a bunch of Ds. Cumulative is obviously a bigger concern but if it's for the grading period- it happens and doesn't mean things won't improve.
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  #148  
Old 03-28-18, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
correct me if I am wrong but is the minimum GPA for the grading period or cummulative? I know plenty of kids who screwed up, struggled or bombed a test or two early in the quarter and have a bunch of Ds. Cumulative is obviously a bigger concern but if it's for the grading period- it happens and doesn't mean things won't improve.
If a athlete doesn’t have the Gpa required or passed all full credit classes at the end of the quarter that student is academically ineligible until the end of the next quarter. So if it’s basketball season and you fail to meet requirements at the end of the first quarter you are academically ineligible usually until the next report card comes out at the end of 2nd quarter
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Old 03-28-18, 10:18 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by Youknow View Post
If a athlete doesnít have the Gpa required or passed all full credit classes at the end of the quarter that student is academically ineligible until the end of the next quarter. So if itís basketball season and you fail to meet requirements at the end of the first quarter you are academically ineligible usually until the next report card comes out at the end of 2nd quarter
I know the timing of eligibility just not what the specific standard is for the school- if it's a 1.3 for the quarter I wouldn't be so harsh in judging. I know plenty of bright, hard working kids who have struggled the first quarter with more advanced classes- bombing the first test or two before figuring things out. A cumulative GPA that low is an issue, but for the quarter it could just be a bad few weeks.
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Old 03-28-18, 10:30 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
I know the timing of eligibility just not what the specific standard is for the school- if it's a 1.3 for the quarter I wouldn't be so harsh in judging. I know plenty of bright, hard working kids who have struggled the first quarter with more advanced classes- bombing the first test or two before figuring things out. A cumulative GPA that low is an issue, but for the quarter it could just be a bad few weeks.
I'm looking at a copy of the Finneytown student handbook and they use the prior quarter's GPA, not the cumulative GPA. That may be universally true in Ohio, I'm not sure.
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