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  #61  
Old 03-26-18, 06:28 PM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
Moeller - 3 transfers in 2 years to an open enrollment/private school and two had to sit out half season.
Deer Park- 10 transfers in 1 year NONE sat out, "homeless" - one interviewed on TV admitting he came there to play for the coach which is against the rules.
This has been explained to you multiple times. You're either being intentionally obtuse or I'm wondering how you even log in to your Yappi account.
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  #62  
Old 03-26-18, 06:51 PM
MooseJaw MooseJaw is offline
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Originally Posted by humblechicajp View Post
The whole issue with the opinions of outsiders looking in is this YOU GUYS DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS, PERIOD!!! PLEASE LET IT GO BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS!!! OHSAA KNOWS THE FACTS!!!! IF YOU KNEW THEM I WONDER IF THE ACCUSERS WOULD APOLOGIZE????
Well enlighten us, TELL US THE FACTS! WHY DO YOU ALWAYS SCREAM IN CAPS? Why do you always say we don’t know but still never disclose any details? Why...because you know it’s shady and it achieved DP goal of getting all these kids transferred and eligible to play - exploiting every ohsaa loophole like homelessness. So glad that the whole state now knows what Cincy people have know all year. No one respects your tainted state title. If you have to cheat to get it, it’s worth nothing. # fraud
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  #63  
Old 03-26-18, 07:55 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by humblechicajp View Post
The whole issue with the opinions of outsiders looking in is this YOU GUYS DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS, PERIOD!!! PLEASE LET IT GO BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS!!! OHSAA KNOWS THE FACTS!!!! IF YOU KNEW THEM I WONDER IF THE ACCUSERS WOULD APOLOGIZE????
Uh Oh mama is yelling again. One of the kids ADMITTED on television for all to seethat he came there to play for the coach which is AGAINST THE RULES! And that is a fact.
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  #64  
Old 03-26-18, 08:02 PM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Originally Posted by humblechicajp View Post
The whole issue with the opinions of outsiders looking in is this YOU GUYS DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS, PERIOD!!! PLEASE LET IT GO BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS!!! OHSAA KNOWS THE FACTS!!!! IF YOU KNEW THEM I WONDER IF THE ACCUSERS WOULD APOLOGIZE????
There are enough facts to connect many dots. DP was 3-66 (according to Spectrum broadcast) in the three years prior to Mr. Gentry showing up. I thought he had simply reenergized the community and had gotten local kids to come out and play basketball. Upon learning how and where the players really came from, I have the right to view such rule bending as disrespectful to the spirit of the OHSAA rules, even if not actually breaking them. As others have said, enjoy the title, many of us out here are not respectful of a school system that employs such methods to attain one.
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  #65  
Old 03-26-18, 08:33 PM
Static Static is offline
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Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
There are enough facts to connect many dots. DP was 3-66 (according to Spectrum broadcast) in the three years prior to Mr. Gentry showing up. I thought he had simply reenergized the community and had gotten local kids to come out and play basketball. Upon learning how and where the players really came from, I have the right to view such rule bending as disrespectful to the spirit of the OHSAA rules, even if not actually breaking them. As others have said, enjoy the title, many of us out here are not respectful of a school system that employs such methods to attain one.
This has all been addressed on the Facebook page Deer Park Schools Concerned Citizens last year. There is nothing here. Move along stop the hate. OSHAA FOUND NOTHING! Deer Park won State. Get used to it.
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  #66  
Old 03-26-18, 08:35 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
There are enough facts to connect many dots. DP was 3-66 (according to Spectrum broadcast) in the three years prior to Mr. Gentry showing up. I thought he had simply reenergized the community and had gotten local kids to come out and play basketball. Upon learning how and where the players really came from, I have the right to view such rule bending as disrespectful to the spirit of the OHSAA rules, even if not actually breaking them. As others have said, enjoy the title, many of us out here are not respectful of a school system that employs such methods to attain one.
I have no idea why any of this is a surprise. Gentry was a known quantity; go back and look at some of the comments on Yappi when he was hired:

Quote:
Deer Park made the right decision for them based upon Gentry maybe being able to get students in the building.
Quote:
Deer Park was a great hire!! Tough place to coach, but if they can get some kids in there, they can make an impact in the CHL.
Quote:
How can you get kids in there with a closed enrollment?
General opinion here was fairly negative on his coaching but extremely upbeat on his abilities as an "off-season shopper," as one poster put it. And now two years later people are shocked that he "got students into the building"?
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  #67  
Old 03-26-18, 08:41 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
This has all been addressed on the Facebook page Deer Park Schools Concerned Citizens last year.
Right--people in the community complained on a facebook page, the school's administration said "nothing to see here" and we're supposed to believe that this clears everything up.

How stupid do you think people are?
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  #68  
Old 03-26-18, 08:44 PM
yappimember67 yappimember67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
This has all been addressed on the Facebook page Deer Park Schools Concerned Citizens last year. There is nothing here. Move along stop the hate. OSHAA FOUND NOTHING! Deer Park won State. Get used to it.
Get used to it? Doubt that will be necessary.

Soon enough Gentry will leave and Deer Park will go back to the basement of the league.
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  #69  
Old 03-26-18, 09:11 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by coltfan76 View Post
This has been explained to you multiple times. You're either being intentionally obtuse or I'm wondering how you even log in to your Yappi account.
You have attempted to explain it away with incorrect information- many of us have told you how wrong you are. But you chose to try to insult instead- whatever. The facade that everything is on the up is so disingenuous it's laughable.
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  #70  
Old 03-26-18, 09:46 PM
yappimember67 yappimember67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
You have attempted to explain it away with incorrect information- many of us have told you how wrong you are. But you chose to try to insult instead- whatever. The facade that everything is on the up is so disingenuous it's laughable.
He's a troll. He has no association with Deer Park and is just here to get people riled up.
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  #71  
Old 03-26-18, 10:49 PM
Vox Crusada Vox Crusada is offline
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Originally Posted by humblechicajp View Post
The whole issue with the opinions of outsiders looking in is this YOU GUYS DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS, PERIOD!!! PLEASE LET IT GO BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS!!! OHSAA KNOWS THE FACTS!!!! IF YOU KNEW THEM I WONDER IF THE ACCUSERS WOULD APOLOGIZE????
Not exactly an outsider.
I grew up in the district and have family teaching there.
Eligibility at Deer Park requires only a 1.2 GPA.
Multiple failing grades are allowed.
One of these geniuses is carrying a 63 average in a less than academic class because he rarely shows up to class!
This is what is tolerated in the Park!
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  #72  
Old 03-27-18, 04:16 AM
PeterDragon PeterDragon is offline
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Originally Posted by humblechicajp View Post
The whole issue with the opinions of outsiders looking in is this YOU GUYS DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS, PERIOD!!! PLEASE LET IT GO BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS!!! OHSAA KNOWS THE FACTS!!!! IF YOU KNEW THEM I WONDER IF THE ACCUSERS WOULD APOLOGIZE????
I don't think you are Ms. Rose. I think you are Gentry's assistant. That skinny little bald dude who was acting like a fool on the sideline. Who are you guys recruiting to replace Rose and Mcentire next year? I know its you Reggie.
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  #73  
Old 03-27-18, 06:40 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
There's an article on the subject at lexology claiming that it's unclear/untested whether OHSAA would be considered a "state actor." I'm not sure if this is current either:

https://www.lexology.com/library/det...d-724e6e62b42c

I appreciate the sentiment behind the law, and support it. But if no one is going to investigate the circumstances behind students "doubling up" this is a loophole big enough to drive a team-sized van through.

It's like a hydra: close one loophole and three more appear. I don't think it's a coincidence this circus moved to a closed-enrollment public school immediately after the competitive-balance regulations were passed. If schools and coaches and parents don't want to abide by the spirit of the rules I don't know how a regulatory apparatus that essentially relies on self-reporting is ever going to force them to.
I'm not sure that I'd consider it "well settled" since there was a consent entry, but part of the Massillon case was whether OHSAA was a "state actor". And the Court concluded that it was since, as they are responsible for overseeing and scheduling tournaments, etc. for public schools, it was a quasi-governmental agency.

But you are right that this is a huge loophole. The problem is that if you start writing guidelines that are in violation of federal law, you won't have much of a leg to stand on in court. The DOE law and the OHSAA rule have their hearts in the right place, but in doing so, leave open areas of potential abuse by schools (mine included!). The problem is that writing a guideline that closes this loophole AND is compliant with federal law is not such an easy task.
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  #74  
Old 03-27-18, 06:59 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Vox Crusada View Post
Not exactly an outsider.
I grew up in the district and have family teaching there.
Eligibility at Deer Park requires only a 1.2 GPA.
Multiple failing grades are allowed.
One of these geniuses is carrying a 63 average in a less than academic class because he rarely shows up to class!
This is what is tolerated in the Park!
If you have a family member teaching at Deer Park and is leaking private information about a high schooler's academic record, then the ethics issues at the school go WAY beyond the basketball court.
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  #75  
Old 03-27-18, 07:09 AM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
You have attempted to explain it away with incorrect information- many of us have told you how wrong you are. But you chose to try to insult instead- whatever. The facade that everything is on the up is so disingenuous it's laughable.
Are you really this dense?
I'll type slowly for you.
Moeller brings in kids for sports all the time. It has been admitted in this thread. They just happen to do it between 8th grade and 9th grade. This is called a loophole.
When they do bring in a transfer in high school, they put them in a different sport to sit out the half season. Like when they brought in a QB at the semester break and he was suddenly on the basketball team. This is also called a loophole.
Deer Park brought in a group of kids using loopholes.
The fact that you think one is okay and one is not makes you a hypocrite.
I think it hilarious because it exposes the OHSAA.
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  #76  
Old 03-27-18, 07:25 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by coltfan76 View Post
Are you really this dense?
I'll type slowly for you.
Moeller brings in kids for sports all the time. It has been admitted in this thread. They just happen to do it between 8th grade and 9th grade. This is called a loophole.
When they do bring in a transfer in high school, they put them in a different sport to sit out the half season. Like when they brought in a QB at the semester break and he was suddenly on the basketball team. This is also called a loophole.
Deer Park brought in a group of kids using loopholes.
The fact that you think one is okay and one is not makes you a hypocrite.
I think it hilarious because it exposes the OHSAA.
I do think there is a difference between a kid who comes in to a school as a freshman and commits to it and becomes part of the school for four years, and a kid who transfers in as a senior to "play for the coach" or "to make a run for a title". I'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong because you can't make such blanket statements when a family decision is involved. But, from an optics standpoint, if nothing else, its not the same thing.
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  #77  
Old 03-27-18, 07:32 AM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Originally Posted by coltfan76 View Post
Are you really this dense?
I'll type slowly for you.
Moeller brings in kids for sports all the time. It has been admitted in this thread. They just happen to do it between 8th grade and 9th grade. This is called a loophole.
When they do bring in a transfer in high school, they put them in a different sport to sit out the half season. Like when they brought in a QB at the semester break and he was suddenly on the basketball team. This is also called a loophole.
Deer Park brought in a group of kids using loopholes.
The fact that you think one is okay and one is not makes you a hypocrite.
I think it hilarious because it exposes the OHSAA.
Thatís not how the transfer rule works. If you transfer and donít meet an exception, you have to sit out half the season in any and every sport you played at the last school.
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  #78  
Old 03-27-18, 07:34 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by coltfan76 View Post
Moeller brings in kids for sports all the time. It has been admitted in this thread. They just happen to do it between 8th grade and 9th grade. This is called a loophole.
Im never among the first to stick up for Moe, however Moeller is a 9-12 grade school. They bring ALL their students in between 8 & 9 grade. This is not a loophole.
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  #79  
Old 03-27-18, 07:40 AM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
I'm not sure that I'd consider it "well settled" since there was a consent entry, but part of the Massillon case was whether OHSAA was a "state actor". And the Court concluded that it was since, as they are responsible for overseeing and scheduling tournaments, etc. for public schools, it was a quasi-governmental agency.

But you are right that this is a huge loophole. The problem is that if you start writing guidelines that are in violation of federal law, you won't have much of a leg to stand on in court. The DOE law and the OHSAA rule have their hearts in the right place, but in doing so, leave open areas of potential abuse by schools (mine included!). The problem is that writing a guideline that closes this loophole AND is compliant with federal law is not such an easy task.
When was that Massillon case? I know that if you ask the OHSAA, they would say they are not a state actor (not that that means they aren't). The supreme court weighed in on this in the early 2000s with the Tennessee state association and ruled they were a state actor (in large part because their bylaws were actually written by the Tennessee Department of Education, unlike Ohio). SCOTUS set out a standard to determine if state athletic associations are state actors. Any ruling pre-2000s (either way) would probably be argued again under these new guidelines.
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  #80  
Old 03-27-18, 07:57 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
When was that Massillon case? I know that if you ask the OHSAA, they would say they are not a state actor (not that that means they aren't). The supreme court weighed in on this in the early 2000s with the Tennessee state association and ruled they were a state actor (in large part because their bylaws were actually written by the Tennessee Department of Education, unlike Ohio). SCOTUS set out a standard to determine if state athletic associations are state actors. Any ruling pre-2000s (either way) would probably be argued again under these new guidelines.
If my recollection is correct, that was the Court's position in the litigation between Massillon and the OHSAA involving the Munford transfer from LaSalle to Massillon. Again, since this case ended in a negotiated settlement, I'm not sure if this decision was ever officially made an Order of the Court for the purposes of precedent, but it was certainly headed in that direction.
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  #81  
Old 03-27-18, 08:01 AM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
If my recollection is correct, that was the Court's position in the litigation between Massillon and the OHSAA involving the Munford transfer from LaSalle to Massillon. Again, since this case ended in a negotiated settlement, I'm not sure if this decision was ever officially made an Order of the Court for the purposes of precedent, but it was certainly headed in that direction.
That's interesting. I wonder if the OHSAA settled in part so that they wouldn't officially be ruled a state actor and continue operating as though they are not until forced to.
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  #82  
Old 03-27-18, 08:17 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by coltfan76 View Post
Are you really this dense?
I'll type slowly for you.
Moeller brings in kids for sports all the time. It has been admitted in this thread. They just happen to do it between 8th grade and 9th grade. This is called a loophole.
When they do bring in a transfer in high school, they put them in a different sport to sit out the half season. Like when they brought in a QB at the semester break and he was suddenly on the basketball team. This is also called a loophole.
Deer Park brought in a group of kids using loopholes.
The fact that you think one is okay and one is not makes you a hypocrite.
I think it hilarious because it exposes the OHSAA.
It Is stunning how wrong you are- a football player cannot skip sitting half the games just because he played basketball!? A kid choosing an open enrollment or private high school for 9-12 grade vs 10 kids transferring in from other high schools- not a loophole and there is no comparison ethically. That is not even close to how the transfers rules work- please educate yourself, its painful to watch your ineptitude!

I actually never said any of it is ok and have spoken many times about how I think the transferring of athletes is detrimental to both the students and high school sports. The facts remain that what Deer Park did was so extraordinary and unprecedented that it is foolish for anyone to try to defend what was done as legitimate.
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  #83  
Old 03-27-18, 08:22 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
Thatís not how the transfer rule works. If you transfer and donít meet an exception, you have to sit out half the season in any and every sport you played at the last school.
This Colt guy has been trying to slam me and has absolutely no clue about how the transfer rules even work. Thanks for trying to show him that he is mistaken. He likely won't listen and instead will just continue to try to bash me.
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  #84  
Old 03-27-18, 08:32 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
That's interesting. I wonder if the OHSAA settled in part so that they wouldn't officially be ruled a state actor and continue operating as though they are not until forced to.
I am absolutely sure that was part of the rationale. If Massillon lost the case, they lose their LT for half a season. However, if the OHSAA lost the case, then its whole world changes. As a private entity, they can get away with a lot with regards to setting rules and regulations, etc. If they are formally classified as a "state actor" then rules regarding due process, etc. become MUCH more problematic for them.
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  #85  
Old 03-27-18, 08:40 AM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
I am absolutely sure that was part of the rationale. If Massillon lost the case, they lose their LT for half a season. However, if the OHSAA lost the case, then its whole world changes. As a private entity, they can get away with a lot with regards to setting rules and regulations, etc. If they are formally classified as a "state actor" then rules regarding due process, etc. become MUCH more problematic for them.
OHSAA actually does pretty well in due process. They have appeals, hearings, etc. No school is sanctioned without the ability to defend itself. Where it would really screw them is constitutional rights like freedom of speech. If you're a government entity, you can't restrict freedom of speech, such as...recruiting. Imagine if OHSAA was ruled a state actor and legally couldn't restrict schools from recruiting! That'd be something.
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  #86  
Old 03-27-18, 08:50 AM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Im never among the first to stick up for Moe, however Moeller is a 9-12 grade school. They bring ALL their students in between 8 & 9 grade. This is not a loophole.
When they are bringing football players in from 40-50 miles away, that is a loophole.
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  #87  
Old 03-27-18, 08:53 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
OHSAA actually does pretty well in due process. They have appeals, hearings, etc. No school is sanctioned without the ability to defend itself. Where it would really screw them is constitutional rights like freedom of speech. If you're a government entity, you can't restrict freedom of speech, such as...recruiting. Imagine if OHSAA was ruled a state actor and legally couldn't restrict schools from recruiting! That'd be something.
To me, the due process issue they have is being the investigator, along with being the judge, jury and executioner. The big problem in the Massillon case was that OHSAA investigators were telling people at LaSalle that this transfer was improper. Then, surprise, surprise, after Massillon was given its due process, OHSAA determined the transfer was improper. Part of Massillon's case was that the due process was just for show because OHSAA had already made up its mind beforehand. I've always thought OHSAA could clear up a lot of potential issues by having a more independent panel selected from a pool of member AD's hear contested appeals.
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  #88  
Old 03-27-18, 08:58 AM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
To me, the due process issue they have is being the investigator, along with being the judge, jury and executioner. The big problem in the Massillon case is that OHSAA investigators were telling people at LaSalle that this transfer was improper. Then, surprise, surprise, after Massillon was given its due process, OHSAA determined the transfer was improper. Part of Massillon's case was that the due process was just for show because OHSAA had already made up its mind beforehand. I've always thought OHSAA could clear up a lot of potential issues by having a more independent panel selected from a pool of member AD's hear contested appeals.
That actually is what happens. The appeals panel is selected from a pool of member superintendents. It's not 100% independent, but it's pretty independent.
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  #89  
Old 03-27-18, 09:01 AM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
It Is stunning how wrong you are- a football player cannot skip sitting half the games just because he played basketball!? A kid choosing an open enrollment or private high school for 9-12 grade vs 10 kids transferring in from other high schools- not a loophole and there is no comparison ethically. That is not even close to how the transfers rules work- please educate yourself, its painful to watch your ineptitude!

I actually never said any of it is ok and have spoken many times about how I think the transferring of athletes is detrimental to both the students and high school sports. The facts remain that what Deer Park did was so extraordinary and unprecedented that it is foolish for anyone to try to defend what was done as legitimate.
I am not defending them as legitimate. I'm pointing out your hypocrisy.
And I do apologize. I was about the QB. He also played basketball at his old school. He was put on the basketball roster so that he didn't have to sit out the following year. I talked to his parents and misunderstood the loophole they used. However, this does not change the fact that Moeller recruits kids from all the tri-state and you are okay with it.
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  #90  
Old 03-27-18, 09:12 AM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
I'm not sure that I'd consider it "well settled" since there was a consent entry, but part of the Massillon case was whether OHSAA was a "state actor". And the Court concluded that it was since, as they are responsible for overseeing and scheduling tournaments, etc. for public schools, it was a quasi-governmental agency.

But you are right that this is a huge loophole. The problem is that if you start writing guidelines that are in violation of federal law, you won't have much of a leg to stand on in court. The DOE law and the OHSAA rule have their hearts in the right place, but in doing so, leave open areas of potential abuse by schools (mine included!). The problem is that writing a guideline that closes this loophole AND is compliant with federal law is not such an easy task.
It'd be nice to think that full exploitation of the loophole--arranging a child's "homelessness" for athletic purposes--is an act so shameless that no school or administrator or coach would ever be a willing part of it.

It'd be nice to think that.
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Any News on a New Head Football Coach at Cincinnati Deer Park???? IUDOGS Football 5 06-13-17 05:46 AM


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