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  #121  
Old 03-24-18, 08:09 PM
Salesman Salesman is offline
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Originally Posted by Salesman View Post
One thing that has to be considered--The Flyers are proven winners at the State level with this group of athletes. They will NOT be intimidated. They will NOT be in awe of CC. At this level of play, attitude plays a big part. MSML will be prepared and confident. Upset special: Flyers by 2.
And nobody listened to me.
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  #122  
Old 03-24-18, 09:05 PM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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Originally Posted by 3out2in View Post
IMO Selle should have trapped ML’s guards in the half court not full court. It would have forced them to attempt passes they didn’t want to make. It also would have forced Mescher & Bruns to come higher to get the ball, not just catch it mid lane. No plan B today.


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IMO Luckily for cornerstone you were not the coach.
If the guards would have trouble with the trap??? Which I doubt. Bruns becomes the point guard(who you will not trap) his passes are lethal and this leaves at least one of his 3 receivers wide open... please see football state games for reference.
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  #123  
Old 03-24-18, 09:10 PM
Scrapper56 Scrapper56 is offline
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Congrats to Marion Stein. Hard nose kids.
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  #124  
Old 03-24-18, 09:15 PM
3out2in 3out2in is offline
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Originally Posted by gneiss rocks View Post
IMO Luckily for cornerstone you were not the coach.

If the guards would have trouble with the trap??? Which I doubt. Bruns becomes the point guard(who you will not trap) this leaves at least one of his 3 receivers unguarded ... please see football state games before you make that mistake.


Itís not football. If Bruns has to come high to catch youíve taken him out of catch and shoot mode in the corner. Youíre also forcing them into a much longer post entry pass. Notice you didnít address posting up Bothwell on the offensive end. Nice try at being a smartazz. Try harder next time.


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  #125  
Old 03-24-18, 09:48 PM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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Originally Posted by 3out2in View Post
Itís not football. If Bruns has to come high to catch youíve taken him out of catch and shoot mode in the corner. Youíre also forcing them into a much longer post entry pass. Notice you didnít address posting up Bothwell on the offensive end. Nice try at being a smartazz. Try harder next time.


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If you are trying to help me explain how none of us armchair quarterbacks are as good as classy as the players or coaches who played this game...thanks!
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  #126  
Old 03-24-18, 09:59 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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The key for ML's win was the ability to limit the turn overs and dominate the boards, it limited CCA's fast break opportunities and turned the game into a half court game. Of all the championship games this was the only one that did not hold form.
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  #127  
Old 03-24-18, 10:02 PM
ru4ml ru4ml is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
No disrespect to ML but there is not much CCA has not seen. They played and beat Garfield Heights this year and they had two guys over 6'9. They are beatable but not by anybody in D4.
Still think so ???
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  #128  
Old 03-24-18, 10:37 PM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
The key for ML's win was the ability to limit the turn overs and dominate the boards, it limited CCA's fast break opportunities and turned the game into a half court game. Of all the championship games this was the only one that did not hold form.
I thought ML overperformed on ball handling. PG made them look pretty rough Thursday, but with then court spread today they handled the pressure very well indeed. Was one of the better games I recall watching especially as I enjoy contrasting styles and a coaches ability to figure the other team out.
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  #129  
Old 03-24-18, 11:40 PM
PeterDragon PeterDragon is offline
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#32 from Marion Local was a pleasure to watch. What a leader.
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  #130  
Old 03-25-18, 06:40 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Was ML's win the biggest upset in D-4 history ? Before anyone scoffs at that notion look at who CCA def. during reg. season. D-1 Iggy who def. D-2 champ ASVSM during the season, CCA beat D-1 Garfield Heights who has two players with OSU offers, beat a good D-1 Mentor team, def. last years D-3 champ St. Joe who lost to ASVSM in the regional finals, knocked off last years D-4 champ Lutheran East who made it to D-3 semi-finals this year. For good measure CCA went to a Miami Fla. tourney and won 2 out of 3 games. CCA also beat no. 1 team in D-4 and undefeated MSP by 16 in regional final. Quite an impressive list.
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  #131  
Old 03-25-18, 07:57 AM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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That's MAC country for you. They do not make excuses, whine about private schools recruiting, nor do they get intimidated against schools that have the resume like Stirred not Shaken was describing. CCA probably thought that because of their very impressive accomplishments this season, they had the state title in the bag; a huge mistake against a MAC country school. This game, and this flyers team exemplifies the reason why I like to regard the schools in the MAC as the gold standard for public schools. I'm typically a northeast Ohio homer, but I have a soft spot for MAC schools. They represent how things were once upon a time in high school sports. Where communities took great pride in their local high school football teams. Where the players where so inspired by their pride in their small town community that they would not leave their community school district to form an all star team, but rather, to compete together with fellow athletes and represent their community, in victory or defeat. And then on Friday nights, the entire community would rally around the games, in victory or defeat. Communities which would otherwise be obscure, would get their time on the map, if their local team was successful. No, I recognize those days are long gone now. But still, MAC country is an echo of those days. Of what high school sports used to be.
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  #132  
Old 03-25-18, 09:19 AM
Myron Myron is offline
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^^^ there are a lot of us city slickers and suburbanites that totally agree with this sentiment, CoventryTtackXCguy. Seeing a team of hometown, home bred kids win at the highest level against the AAU assemblages that the OHSAA has allowed will never get old. Congrats to MSML
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  #133  
Old 03-25-18, 09:27 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4ml View Post
Still think so ???

Yes. I also said they were beatable. That was not the CCA I saw play several times this year. They never thought this team could beat them. They overlooked them and took them for granted. That is the risk when your the favorite. People don't realize how much that factors in. ML wanted it more and played hard - CCA needed to bring the A game not the C game. IF CCA plays like they have most of the year they roll that team. I'm surprised by the coaching and decision making. ML did what it needed to do and surprised their fans and themselves. That is why I love HS sports. Nothing is a given and great things happen. I'm just saying if CCA plays their A game this is not a close game. You cannot let your guard down, play sloppy and take bad shots against a good and inspired team. You then end up in a close game and anything can happen.

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  #134  
Old 03-25-18, 09:34 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterDragon View Post
#32 from Marion Local was a pleasure to watch. What a leader.
With his performance in the state tournament, Mescher probably finished 2nd on the all time scoring list at ML with close to 1300 pts. and about 60 pts. short of being no.1. Quite impressive accomplishment for a young man who is a 6' 2'' post player and scored 90% of his fg's with in 5' of the basket.
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  #135  
Old 03-25-18, 09:37 AM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Myron View Post
^^^ there are a lot of us city slickers and suburbanites that totally agree with this sentiment, CoventryTtackXCguy. Seeing a team of hometown, home bred kids win at the highest level against the AAU assemblages that the OHSAA has allowed will never get old. Congrats to MSML
Indeed, and the worst part of all this is even as I say this, the school I support, open enrolls a lot of their athletes from around the Akron area. Do I think we should abandon that practice based on my sentiments? No, we need these open enrollment athletes to compete. Other schools do that, so we kinda have to if we want to compete. I don't necessarily like it, but I just accept it as the times we live in. *sigh*. But I appreciate MAC country as being the land that time forgot, at least with regards to how they assemble their teams.
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  #136  
Old 03-25-18, 09:53 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Yes. I also said they were beatable. That was not the CCA I saw play several times this year. They never thought this team could beat them. They overlooked them and took them for granted. That is the risk when your the favorite. People don't realize how much that factors in. ML wanted it more and played hard - CCA needed to bring the A game not the C game. IF CCA plays like they have most of the year they roll that team. I'm surprised by the coaching and decision making. ML did what it needed to do and surprised their fans and themselves. That is why I love HS sports. Nothing is a given and great things happen. I'm just saying if CCA plays their A game this is not a close game. You cannot let your guard down, play sloppy and take bad shots against a good and inspired team. You then end up in a close game and anything can happen.

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It's ok.

Marion Local made a lot of teams look like they were playing bad.

I'm sure you'll get'em next year.
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  #137  
Old 03-25-18, 10:05 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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I have no dog in this race. My point is shame on CCA. No team gets to this point in the season without being good. ML has championship pedigree across several sports. That was a dangerous team that knows how to win. You can't be lazy, not box out, blow defensive coverage, try to stall, take unwise shots when leading, turn the ball over etc against a good team. When you do that against anybody the outcome is usually not good. This was not a team that was intimidated by CCA in fact most competitive kids want to play a team considered so much better. ML has competitive kids who wanted to prove to everybody how good they were - and they did. Hats off to them. Maybe CCA learned a lesson not to overlook an opponent and that listening to people tell you how good you are and that you are going to breeze to a championship is dangerous. I blame a lot of that on their coaches as well because it seemed nobody thought this ML could beat them on that sideline. I'm guessing they believe now. I have a lot of respect for CCA. People may not like how their team was comprised but whenever we play them they play the game the right way and are normally very well coached. That is why their performance surprised me yesterday. It was a very unCCA performance. Sure ML had a hand in that performance but even a ML has to admit a lot was self induced.
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  #138  
Old 03-25-18, 11:18 AM
Bengal WhoDey Bengal WhoDey is offline
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I'm guessing you haven't seen ML play much. It was also not their A game, but some of that was due to CCA. Good opponents, like ML and CCA, make you look worse. I don't think CCA had quite faced a team like ML, which has a few unique things about them.
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  #139  
Old 03-25-18, 11:40 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I thought the deciding factor was the rebounding differential. It seemed like CCA wasn't prepared for how physical Bruns and Mescher were on the glass. As noted above, when they didn't box out, they got shoved under the rim by those guys and the Flyers had a ton of second and third opportunities. It felt like the extra chances on the offensive glass didn't come very easily for CCA either.

On the game stats, I believe Marion Local ended up pulling down 61% of the total rebounds. You have to have a ton of things go your way to over come that against anyone.

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  #140  
Old 03-25-18, 12:19 PM
big medicine big medicine is offline
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Originally Posted by Bengal WhoDey View Post
I'm guessing you haven't seen ML play much. It was also not their A game, but some of that was due to CCA. Good opponents, like ML and CCA, make you look worse. I don't think CCA had quite faced a team like ML, which has a few unique things about them.
The End Of the Bench Dancers, for one
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  #141  
Old 03-25-18, 12:25 PM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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Originally Posted by Bengal WhoDey View Post
I'm guessing you haven't seen ML play much. It was also not their A game, but some of that was due to CCA. Good opponents, like ML and CCA, make you look worse. I don't think CCA had quite faced a team like ML, which has a few unique things about them.
I think many casual observers look at the Flyers and do not recognize how tough they are to match up with..
Mesher does not look like a pedigree inside guy, but he plays like one.
The Reithman kid 5' 9" guard does not at all look like a lockdown defender who could hold up to players like Bothwell...but he does (also gave Ahrns his lowest point total)
Then you have 3 very athletic 6' 4 to 6' 6" one of which can play point...

I think Marions A game was beating St henry by 30+
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  #142  
Old 03-25-18, 12:25 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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I have not seen ML at all prior to yesterday. I was impressed by the grit and effort. Great fan support as well and they fed off of it.

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  #143  
Old 03-25-18, 12:31 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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Nov/Dec 2017:
Versailles - D-III volleyball state champs
Coldwater - D-III volleyball state runners-up
New Bremen - D-IV volleyball state champs
Minster - D-III girls cross country state champs
Marion Local - D-VI football state champs
Minster - D-VII football state champs

Mar 2018:
Versailles - D-III girls basketball state runners-up
Minster - D-IV girls basketball state champs
Marion Local - D-IV boys basketball state champs

I fully understand that people around the state get tired of hearing about the MAC and its success. But this is a darn impressive list - and those mentioned above are all public schools who, in nearly all cases (not quite all), achieve success entirely with the kids who happen to live in the school district.

And that's how high school sports should be done (although I realize it will never return to what it was in the 80's and prior to that).
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  #144  
Old 03-25-18, 12:37 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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ML coach Kurt Goettemoeller was probably also a difference maker for Marion against CC - excellent x's and o'x guy who relates well to his staff and to his players.

He deserves a significant degree of the credit.
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  #145  
Old 03-25-18, 12:40 PM
Myron Myron is offline
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Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
ML coach Kurt Goettemoeller was probably also a difference maker for Marion against CC - excellent x's and o'x guy who relates well to his staff and to his players.

He deserves a significant degree of the credit.
Definitely. Along with many factors, this was another: the better coached team won
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  #146  
Old 03-25-18, 12:55 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
Nov/Dec 2017:
Versailles - D-III volleyball state champs
Coldwater - D-III volleyball state runners-up
New Bremen - D-IV volleyball state champs
Minster - D-III girls cross country state champs
Marion Local - D-VI football state champs
Minster - D-VII football state champs

Mar 2018:
Versailles - D-III girls basketball state runners-up
Minster - D-IV girls basketball state champs
Marion Local - D-IV boys basketball state champs

I fully understand that people around the state get tired of hearing about the MAC and its success. But this is a darn impressive list - and those mentioned above are all public schools who, in nearly all cases (not quite all), achieve success entirely with the kids who happen to live in the school district.

And that's how high school sports should be done (although I realize it will never return to what it was in the 80's and prior to that).
That is impressive stuff, and I might argue that economics are every bit as important to the MAC's success as the genetics:

Check this out:
http://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Dat...hool-Districts

More specifically on that page, check out the link "list of each school and its assigned typology." I'll share some data from that link.

Please note the different "types":
Type I = Rural, high student poverty
Type II = Rural, Avg. student poverty
Type III = Small Town, low student poverty
Type IV = Small Town, high student poverty
Types V-VIII refer to Suburban schools and Urban schools.

Here's what the MAC schools look like. School district - median income, student poverty rate, district "type" per ODE:
Anna (football only) - $39,438, 12%, III
Minster - $38,114, 13%, III
Marion Local - $36,646, 6%, II
New Bremen - $35,822, 12%, III
St. Henry - $35,495, 10%, II
Fort Recovery - $35,037, 16%, II
Coldwater - $33,690, 15%, III
Versailles - $33,596, 11%, II
New Knoxville (no football) - $32,987, 14%, II
Parkway - $30,255, 33%, II

Their student poverty rates are relatively low compared to most other schools their size. Mercer and Auglaize Counties have 2 of the 4 lowest unemployment rates in the state.
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  #147  
Old 03-25-18, 01:32 PM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
That is impressive stuff, and I might argue that economics are every bit as important to the MAC's success as the genetics:

Check this out:
http://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Dat...hool-Districts

More specifically on that page, check out the link "list of each school and its assigned typology." I'll share some data from that link.

Please note the different "types":
Type I = Rural, high student poverty
Type II = Rural, Avg. student poverty
Type III = Small Town, low student poverty
Type IV = Small Town, high student poverty
Types V-VIII refer to Suburban schools and Urban schools.

Here's what the MAC schools look like. School district - median income, student poverty rate, district "type" per ODE:
Anna (football only) - $39,438, 12%, III
Minster - $38,114, 13%, III
Marion Local - $36,646, 6%, II
New Bremen - $35,822, 12%, III
St. Henry - $35,495, 10%, II
Fort Recovery - $35,037, 16%, II
Coldwater - $33,690, 15%, III
Versailles - $33,596, 11%, II
New Knoxville (no football) - $32,987, 14%, II
Parkway - $30,255, 33%, II

Their student poverty rates are relatively low compared to most other schools their size. Mercer and Auglaize Counties have 2 of the 4 lowest unemployment rates in the state.
Two things are repeated over and over to avoid poverty for your children. First, keep the family intact, second, responsibility to provide via a job. I think both of those are accomplished at higher than average rates in MAC country.
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  #148  
Old 03-25-18, 01:32 PM
Flying High 9691 Flying High 9691 is offline
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Rank your Div. games of the weekend an your top clutch play's that made the difference.
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  #149  
Old 03-25-18, 01:42 PM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Flying High 9691 View Post
Rank your Div. games of the weekend an your top clutch play's that made the difference.
I watched all d3 and d4 games.

1 ML vs Cornerstone , two key plays come to mind, the cross court pass to Bruns for the three to get to over time and the extra pass accross the lane to Mecher to seal the win after being fouled. Several huge mistakes by Cornerstone allowed these to emerge as key plays.

No other games had anything close to the key plays featured in the D4 final. Thought all D4 games were excellent, none of the D3 games did anything for me but we're entertaining.
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  #150  
Old 03-25-18, 01:43 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
Two things are repeated over and over to avoid poverty for your children. First, keep the family intact, second, responsibility to provide via a job. I think both of those are accomplished at higher than average rates in MAC country.
I would agree with that. In turn, the lack of child poverty means kids have greater access to 3 square meals a day (whether or not they choose to avoid McDonald's is up to them), and the kids are more able to participate in extracurricular activities because it isn't as necessary for them to get a job after school to bring extra money into the household.
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