TRAC (Three Rivers Athletic Conference) 2017-2018

[irish_buffalo]

I'd like to hear about possible starting line-ups? Top returning players? Etc...

Between here and the old puddle there used to be a lot of posters with insight.

I've heard about SJ (Williams, King, McKinstry) and Whitmer (strong Jr. class) but have not heard anything about SF, Findlay, CC, Ross? SF should be decent right? I know they lost Burnham and the PG but return Harris and others? Am told the Knights have most of the top freshman in the area? It sounds like the Eagles will be much improved which is very good for the league and Oregon. I've heard nothing but good things about their new coach (Rodriguez - Dave not Adam).

Blade boys preview comes out this week? Wed? Thurs?

[cchs1983]

Sorry to say the Irish will be mostly made up of younger football players. Cole, Norliss, Marshall and throw in Fields and a few other football types. Tough losing Copeland during football.

[NWObballfan]

Originally Posted by irish_buffalo

I'd like to hear about possible starting line-ups? Top returning players? Etc...

Between here and the old puddle there used to be a lot of posters with insight.

I've heard about SJ (Williams, King, McKinstry) and Whitmer (strong Jr. class) but have not heard anything about SF, Findlay, CC, Ross? SF should be decent right? I know they lost Burnham and the PG but return Harris and others? Am told the Knights have most of the top freshman in the area? It sounds like the Eagles will be much improved which is very good for the league and Oregon. I've heard nothing but good things about their new coach (Rodriguez - Dave not Adam).

Blade boys preview comes out this week? Wed? Thurs?

Kizer's brother is a freshman at SFS, correct? Has to sting the Irish faithful.

[chrundle]

This is a rough guess at what some of league's starters could be.

SJ- Williams (6'5), H. King (6'4), Christie (6'1), Moyer (6'0), and Fremont transfer Mickinstry (6'5).

Whitmer- Hughes (6'6), Colbert (6'3), Syroka (5'10), Evans (6'2), and I was told that the Panthers have a transfer from Bowsher that is in the (6'5-6'6 range).

SF- Harris (6'6), Wells (6'2), McNeal (6'1), Swerlein (6'0), freshmen Neal (6'4).

Clay- Wamer (5'9), Novak (6'1), Reddick (6'1), freshmen Waggonfeld (6'5).

Central- Norrils (6'0), Cole (6'5), Marshall (6'0), (not sure if the younger grombacher plays?), and while he does not play basketball, I would think that Jase Bowen would start for this Irish team. For some reason, I thought that his dad was on the staff there.

Lima- Upshaw (6'7), J. King (6'4), and I'm not sure on the status of the Puerto Rican National Team transfers.

[Smalls]

Whitmer has a few new guys in the mix. If they can find a shooter (Colbert maybe) to spread the D, watch out with Syroka at the point and the athletes that they have on the wings.

Newcomers for Whitmer - 6'7" kid (looked a couple inches taller than Hughes) moves pretty well and has good upside. Not sure of his grade, but looks young. Also, Vey Terrell 6'3" Sr who may be as athletic as anyone in the league. He will open some eyes after not playing last year.

Sonnenberg is another 6'6"-6'7" athletic kid who should have an impact this year for St. Francis.

[chrundle]

Originally Posted by Eaglesrize

One of our boys came out of no where to get honorable mention all state if football. Gonna do the same in basketball. Plan on it.

And who was that?

[Smalls]

I can't think of any All State boys basketball players up on the wall at Clay. It is a pretty tall task to be All State in basketball at Clay, with the schedule they play (schedule = 4 or 5 win season). Better average about 30 PPG.

Found this for Zac Taylor on the UT website. Those are some big numbers over the course of 3 years. No one on the current team will have numbers like that.


#2 Zac Taylor
Position: Forward/Center
Height: 6-9
Class: Redshirt Freshman
Hometown: Oregon, OH
High School: Clay

Outlook
Possesses a big body and has recovered well from knee injury suffered in Summer 2007...Expected to provide team with a banger down low and give Rockets an option in the low post.

High School - Clay H.S.
A 2008 graduate of Clay High School...Averaged 18.4 points, 9.8 rebounds and 5.0 blocked shots per game as senior...Named to All-Toledo Blade squad as sophomore and senior...Received first-team all-city and all-district honors as junior and senior...Earned honorable-mention all-state accolades as senior...Averaged 19.7 points, 12.0 rebounds and 5.0 blocked shots per game in junior campaign...Averaged 12.3 points, 10.0 rebounds and 4.0 blocked shots per game as sophomore en route to honorable-mention all-city and all-district laurels.

[irish_buffalo]

He's referring to Trey Reddick. He is just a proud grandpa. I hope the Eagles get it going this year.

[irish_buffalo]

JP big dawg.

[Cardboard Palace]

Blade - Coaches Picks;

1. St. Johns
2. St. Francis
3. Whitmer
4. Lima Sr.
5. Findlay
6. Central
7. Fremont Ross
8. Clay

Didn't see Upshaw listed for Lima Sr. in the write-up.

[Smalls]

St. Francis looked good at times vs Southview, but poor shot selection killed them in their OT loss.

[Johnstown Benny]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Palace

Blade - Coaches Picks;

1. St. Johns
2. St. Francis
3. Whitmer
4. Lima Sr.
5. Findlay
6. Central
7. Fremont Ross
8. Clay

Didn't see Upshaw listed for Lima Sr. in the write-up.

Keaton Upshaw is no longer on the team. In the program he is still in the
team picture, but he was not listed on the game roster tonight and not with the team. He quit this week.

The discussion running thru the gym tonite was that Kentucky, where he has verbally committed for football did not want him playing basketball this year. Also several people said Upshaw was decommitting from Kentucky and would be committing to Auburn instead for football. All I can say is this is what was being talked about at the game tonight and I don't know if the Auburn offer is rumor or fact ? What I do know is that he is not playing basketball for Lima Senior this season.

JB

[NWObballfan]

SJJ hammered Rogers last night. SJJ was without 2 starters and their 6th man, so this team will be very good moving forward.

[irish_buffalo]

Originally Posted by Johnstown Benny

Keaton Upshaw is no longer on the team. In the program he is still in the
team picture, but he was not listed on the game roster tonight and not with the team. He quit this week.

The discussion running thru the gym tonite was that Kentucky, where he has verbally committed for football did not want him playing basketball this year. Also several people said Upshaw was decommitting from Kentucky and would be committing to Auburn instead for football. All I can say is this is what was being talked about at the game tonight and I don't know if the Auburn offer is rumor or fact ? What I do know is that he is not playing basketball for Lima Senior this season.

JB

I know you are posting on what you heard but I hate it when college's dictate what athletes can and cannot do. I get it, I just do not like it. Does Gus Malzhan use a TE? I have not watched enough Auburn to know? Wherever he goes they will pack 50 pounds on that big frame of his and he will wind up playing DE or OT.

And as a side note I do not even think Upshaw has begun to reach his potential. He could be special in football if he continues to mature mentally.

[irish_buffalo]

Originally Posted by NWObballfan

SJJ hammered Rogers last night. SJJ was without 2 starters and their 6th man, so this team will be very good moving forward.

How good is Rogers?

Rumor is this is Ed's last year. From the sounds of things SJ does not have the usual cupboard full of talent coming up and he will leave the next guy nothing.

[eastisbest]

SJJ will never have "nothing." My opinion, they will be better with a new coach unless they completely screw the pooch on the hire. They've been relying on recruited talent for 15 years. Add in coaching and they might get that state championship.

That's not to say Ed is a "bad" coach or not a good coach. The accolades he'll get are earned. He's just not over achieved in decades. He has the most wins but he'd never have acheived what Ben Williams did at Scott or even Coach P at Waite. He's never shown he could do it without the talent and the academic controls that private school affords and he's never been able to do it even with obviously the most talent.

That said, this would be a good year to put that to rest because there are some seriously recruited teams playing this year. Beat them, as good as the talent he's got to work with, he's not got what they got. Be a good way to go out.

[NWObballfan]

Originally Posted by irish_buffalo

How good is Rogers?

Rumor is this is Ed's last year. From the sounds of things SJ does not have the usual cupboard full of talent coming up and he will leave the next guy nothing.

Rogers has a nice team. Probably good enough to make the district semis, given that 8/21 teams in the district will make it this year.

SJJ will lose a couple of their best players this year, but they have several freshmen/sophomores playing varsity already.

[smurfyeah19]

Originally Posted by NWObballfan

Rogers has a nice team. Probably good enough to make the district semis, given that 8/21 teams in the district will make it this year.

SJJ will lose a couple of their best players this year, but they have several freshmen/sophomores playing varsity already.

Rogers is horribly coached. Watched it on BCSN, those kids jacked up so many bad shots it’s clear they don’t have the discipline, decision making and offensive knowledge to be competitive this year

[irish_buffalo]

Originally Posted by NWObballfan

Rogers has a nice team. Probably good enough to make the district semis, given that 8/21 teams in the district will make it this year.

SJJ will lose a couple of their best players this year, but they have several freshmen/sophomores playing varsity already.

Lichtenberg? Mitsopoulos? No offense, those kids are decent, and seem to be great kids but several years ago they'd be playing JV or freshman ball. The area is just down talent wise and top basketball players are heading to SF and Stritch over SJ. Aside from a blip here and there (Welling CCHS & A couple small stints at SF) that has not happened in 20 years. If you were strictly a basketball player in Toledo you went to SJ.

Stritch just picked up another kid who moved to the area from Dayton who plays summer ball with Ohio Red. Over the past 20 or so years that kid went to SJ, now he is heading to Stritch.

EIB, of course stating "nothing" is a tad kneejerk. I'd also point to the fact that although Ed still has some great assistants he has lost some great assistants over the years that really contributed (Mouch, Patterson, Komives). Of course that will happen with Ed being there as long as he has but SJ simply does not have the same "draw" that they once did.

[NWObballfan]

Originally Posted by irish_buffalo

Lichtenberg? Mitsopoulos? No offense, those kids are decent, and seem to be great kids but several years ago they'd be playing JV or freshman ball. The area is just down talent wise and top basketball players are heading to SF and Stritch over SJ. Aside from a blip here and there (Welling CCHS & A couple small stints at SF) that has not happened in 20 years. If you were strictly a basketball player in Toledo you went to SJ.

Stritch just picked up another kid who moved to the area from Dayton who plays summer ball with Ohio Red. Over the past 20 or so years that kid went to SJ, now he is heading to Stritch.

EIB, of course stating "nothing" is a tad kneejerk. I'd also point to the fact that although Ed still has some great assistants he has lost some great assistants over the years that really contributed (Mouch, Patterson, Komives). Of course that will happen with Ed being there as long as he has but SJ simply does not have the same "draw" that they once did.

They have another sophomore who I think will be quite good based on the other night. I think there are several points where you could have said SJJ's run of dominance would be coming to an end. Believe people said similar things when Loving was a senior. It looked like Central would be a dominant force for years and now they have the 6th best team in the TRAC. SFS has not beaten SJJ in 8 years and only twice in the 21st century, I'll believe they're the program of the future when I see it.

[Smalls]

Don't forget Maumee Valley getting some real nice players. Woodley has D2 offers, Jackson has MAC offers and is being recruited by Big 10 schools.

[chrundle]

Originally Posted by NWObballfan

They have another sophomore who I think will be quite good based on the other night. I think there are several points where you could have said SJJ's run of dominance would be coming to an end. Believe people said similar things when Loving was a senior. It looked like Central would be a dominant force for years and now they have the 6th best team in the TRAC. SFS has not beaten SJJ in 8 years and only twice in the 21st century, I'll believe they're the program of the future when I see it.

People may have said that, but looking at St. John's roster (Varsity, JV, and Frosh are all available on their school website), there is not really a younger player that pops out at you. In years past, SJ was simply loaded as program top to bottom, and it was rare to see freshman moved up. From 2000-2010, I believe BJ Raymond, Mike Taylor, Cheatham Norrils, Jay Springs, and Marc Loving were the only freshmen to even be listed on their rosters. I don't see those guys in their upcoming classes. Are their current younger guys that special, or are they moved up out of necessity? (i.e. 2 juniors in the entire program)

I think that you may be mislead when you refer to Central. The program was knocking on the door, and getting those high caliber kids, but the resignation of Jim Welling has hurt them. Central appears to be incredibly young this year, but the cupboard looks to be far from bare. (Norrils, Marshall, Cole)

[irish_buffalo]

Originally Posted by NWObballfan

They have another sophomore who I think will be quite good based on the other night. I think there are several points where you could have said SJJ's run of dominance would be coming to an end. Believe people said similar things when Loving was a senior. It looked like Central would be a dominant force for years and now they have the 6th best team in the TRAC. SFS has not beaten SJJ in 8 years and only twice in the 21st century, I'll believe they're the program of the future when I see it.

I never said that. When Loving was a senior they had Gabe Kynard and the Thompson kid coming up as well as Academy kids like Vincent Williams and Dallas Gant. SJ has always had a kid or two that could play at a young age. Vincent Williams was good as a 6'4 freshman. SJ simply does not have that at the moment. I will stand by my comment, if this was 10-15-20 years ago Lichtenburg would be on freshman/JV and Mitsopolous on JV. After Williams, King, and the transfer Christie graduate this year who will carry the load? You might name someone but they are not the caliber of Williams, Loving, Gardner, Norrils, Taylor, Springs, Roberts, Floyd(s), Raymond, Hillesland, Coleman, Amhrien, Larranaga...SJ has always had that guy (or 2 or 3) coming up and the fact of the matter is now they do not.

smalls brings up a good point as well. Even 3/4 years ago MVCDS and Stritch were after thoughts and played to their level but that has all changed in a hurry. These schools have begun attracting kids who otherwise, 10 years ago were 90% SJ kids.

[NWObballfan]

Originally Posted by irish_buffalo

I never said that. When Loving was a senior they had Gabe Kynard and the Thompson kid coming up as well as Academy kids like Vincent Williams and Dallas Gant. SJ has always had a kid or two that could play at a young age. Vincent Williams was good as a 6'4 freshman. SJ simply does not have that at the moment. I will stand by my comment, if this was 10-15-20 years ago Lichtenburg would be on freshman/JV and Mitsopolous on JV. After Williams, King, and the transfer Christie graduate this year who will carry the load? You might name someone but they are not the caliber of Williams, Loving, Gardner, Norrils, Taylor, Springs, Roberts, Floyd(s), Raymond, Hillesland, Coleman, Amhrien, Larranaga...SJ has always had that guy (or 2 or 3) coming up and the fact of the matter is now they do not.

smalls brings up a good point as well. Even 3/4 years ago MVCDS and Stritch were after thoughts and played to their level but that has all changed in a hurry. These schools have begun attracting kids who otherwise, 10 years ago were 90% SJ kids.

You're right, they don't have "that guy" in the school now. But history tells you that they'll develop/find the guy. Excited to see what the sophomore Mckinstray can do on the court. 6'5 athletic sophomore.

[irish_buffalo]

Originally Posted by NWObballfan

You're right, they don't have "that guy" in the school now. But history tells you that they'll develop/find the guy. Excited to see what the sophomore Mckinstray can do on the court. 6'5 athletic sophomore.

Very true, and I've been wrong many times before.

[eastisbest]

Originally Posted by chrundle

People may have said that, but looking at St. John's roster (Varsity, JV, and Frosh are all available on their school website), there is not really a younger player that pops out at you. In years past, SJ was simply loaded as program top to bottom, and it was rare to see freshman moved up. From 2000-2010, I believe BJ Raymond, Mike Taylor, Cheatham Norrils, Jay Springs, and Marc Loving were the only freshmen to even be listed on their rosters. I don't see those guys in their upcoming classes. Are their current younger guys that special, or are they moved up out of necessity? (i.e. 2 juniors in the entire program)

I think that you may be mislead when you refer to Central. The program was knocking on the door, and getting those high caliber kids, but the resignation of Jim Welling has hurt them. Central appears to be incredibly young this year, but the cupboard looks to be far from bare. (Norrils, Marshall, Cole)

They are also increasingly relying on transfers. The pipeline might not need to be there? It's too ingrained and too much money and power have put their egos on it. They will spend what they have to spend to keep that program tops.

[Cardboard Palace]

TRAC looks to be down this year based on early scores and graduation of top players from last year.

Findlay 42 Start 50 - Findlay is rebuilding
Fremont 51 Anthony Wayne 59 - Fremont is rebuilding
Lima Sr 64 Anthony Wayne 63 OT - Lima lost Upshaw to football
Clay 56 Tiffin Columbian 38 - Clay not much size or depth, but could win more games in a "down" TRAC
St. Francis 42 Southview 49 OT St. Francis has the players. Need to have better shot selection.
St. Johns 89 Rogers 52 - Has there been someone quicker of the floor in the area than Williams. He jumps 3 times before everyone else jumps once.
Whitmer 58 Start 41 - Whitmer junior dominated athletic team.

St. Johns

Whitmer and St. Francis

Lima

Clay, Central, Fremont, Findlay - Should have competitive games with eachother

[chrundle]

Originally Posted by eastisbest

They are also increasingly relying on transfers. The pipeline might not need to be there? It's too ingrained and too much money and power have put their egos on it. They will spend what they have to spend to keep that program tops.

I definitely agree with you, and in years past it seems like they have taken the route of simply recruiting the best 12 year olds in the city to enroll into their Academy, which has lead to success and the getting of high quality players. Have they begun to rely on transfers out of necessity, or has the Academy lost its lust? Just very odd to see SJ with two juniors in the entire program, and it makes one wonder about the state of the program as a whole, moving forward.

[NWObballfan]

Originally Posted by chrundle

I definitely agree with you, and in years past it seems like they have taken the route of simply recruiting the best 12 year olds in the city to enroll into their Academy, which has lead to success and the getting of high quality players. Have they begun to rely on transfers out of necessity, or has the Academy lost its lust? Just very odd to see SJ with two juniors in the entire program, and it makes one wonder about the state of the program as a whole, moving forward.

I think it's funny to question the state of the program when the gap between SJJ and the second best team in the area has arguably never been greater.

I believe you all could have made this exact argument during the 2014 season. SJJ looked down and didn't have an up and coming superstar in the program. They got smacked by a so-so Bowsher team in the district final. The following year Myles Copeland became TRAC poy, the Thompson kid improved tremendously and Vince Williams came into the program.

[chrundle]

Originally Posted by NWObballfan

I think it's funny to question the state of the program when the gap between SJJ and the second best team in the area has arguably never been greater.

I believe you all could have made this exact argument during the 2014 season. SJJ looked down and didn't have an up and coming superstar in the program. They got smacked by a so-so Bowsher team in the district final. The following year Myles Copeland became TRAC poy, the Thompson kid improved tremendously and Vince Williams came into the program.

I guess I should have put more emphasis on moving forward. SJ is clearly the best team in the area, I don't think anyone is doubting that? Not sure if the argument that you are making is sound, in that Glover averaged 20 points a game and was a D1 player. I would argue that he and Ernthshausen, another 6'10 D1 guy, overshadowed the rest of the cast. As you just stated, there were guys like Thompson, Copeland, Williams, Kynard, and Riggs waiting to take over the reigns. Does SJ still have guys of those caliber in their younger classes that will have such an impact next year? (honest question as I truly do not know, however on paper, it doesn't look like it) Or are those guys at Central, SF, Stritch, and Maumee Valley?