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  #1  
Old 08-14-18, 11:51 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Football Opponents Schedule/Results

Part of the reason Elder missed the playoffs last season were the poor records and low secondary points from both Oak Hills and ISB. Another reason were all the common opponents which brings down the amount of L2 points one can earn/accrue through the year. The latter may happen again this year, but if Elder can get to 7 wins they should make it back to the playoffs.

Last edited by adselder09; 08-14-18 at 01:25 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-14-18, 11:54 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Week 0 (KY/IN week 1):

8/17
Indianapolis Cathedral (0-0) vs. Noblesville
Football North (0-0) vs. COF Academy (OH)
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Old 08-14-18, 01:07 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Another reason was not enough wins.
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Old 08-14-18, 01:27 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Another reason was not enough wins.
That's not necessarily true, Moeller got in at 4-6.
Not only did Elder beat Moeller, they also won 6 games.
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  #5  
Old 08-14-18, 01:41 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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OK, let me rephrase.

Based on their schedule, not enough wins. I don't think that happens this year. I think they get in easy with 6 wins this year.

But I get your point.
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  #6  
Old 08-14-18, 02:27 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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There's still a lot of common opponents:
Gahanna - None
Cathedral - St X and St Edward
Football North - Moeller, St Ignatius and St X
St Edward - Cathedral, Moeller and St Ignatius
St Ignatius - Football North, Moeller, St X and St Edward
St Xavier - Cathedral, Football North, Moeller, LaSalle, St Ignatius
Moeller - Football North, St X, LaSalle, St Edward, St Ignatius and Winton Woods
Winton Woods - Moeller
Vianney - None
LaSalle - St X and Moeller

If they beat Gahanna, Winton Woods, Vianney and LaSalle they'll be in good shape from a points perspective. Football North won't garner a ton of points but they're listed as D3 which is 2 full L1 points better than D7 ISB. The games with Cathedral, Eds, Iggy, Moe and X may garner the same number of points regardless since they're all playing one another.
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  #7  
Old 08-14-18, 02:41 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
There's still a lot of common opponents:
Gahanna - None
Cathedral - St X and St Edward
Football North - Moeller, St Ignatius and St X
St Edward - Cathedral, Moeller and St Ignatius
St Ignatius - Football North, Moeller, St X and St Edward
St Xavier - Cathedral, Football North, Moeller, LaSalle, St Ignatius
Moeller - Football North, St X, LaSalle, St Edward, St Ignatius and Winton Woods
Winton Woods - Moeller
Vianney - None
LaSalle - St X and Moeller

If they beat Gahanna, Winton Woods, Vianney and LaSalle they'll be in good shape from a points perspective. Football North won't garner a ton of points but they're listed as D3 which is 2 full L1 points better than D7 ISB. The games with Cathedral, Eds, Iggy, Moe and X may garner the same number of points regardless since they're all playing one another.
Maybe Iím thinking of the wrong team, but I thought Football North was decent? This is the same team that got in a scrap w/ LS two yrs ago, right?
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  #8  
Old 08-14-18, 02:57 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
Maybe Iím thinking of the wrong team, but I thought Football North was decent? This is the same team that got in a scrap w/ LS two yrs ago, right?
I believe you're right, but based on their schedule they won't bring a ton of L2 points - maybe 2-4 wins depending on how much they've improved.
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  #9  
Old 08-14-18, 02:59 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Elder's playoffs started week 10 against LaSalle.

In absolutely miserable conditions, they lost.

Season over.
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  #10  
Old 08-14-18, 07:20 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post

If they beat Gahanna, Winton Woods, Vianney and LaSalle they'll be in good shape from a points perspective. Football North won't garner a ton of points but they're listed as D3 which is 2 full L1 points better than D7 ISB. The games with Cathedral, Eds, Iggy, Moe and X may garner the same number of points regardless since they're all playing one another.
The common opponent is what hurts the GMC. This also hurt Elder last year with so many common opponents.

This part gets into splitting hairs now. Let's start with the Moeller/Winton Woods game. Assume Elder beat both, in that situation we want Winton Woods to win. The reason is level 2 points. If Winton Woods beats Moeller, Winton Winton Wood gets Elder 6.5 level 2 points. If Moeller beats Winton Woods, Moeller gets us 6.0 level 2 points.

Now if Elder beats one and not the other, we want the team Elder beat to win. This will increase Elder's level 2 points.

The second part of that equation is Moeller is in Elder's region and Winton Woods is not. So if Moeller wins that game, They get 6.0 level 1 points, which could jump Elder in the overall standings and knock them out of the top 8.

The next equation to look out is how the OHSAA calculates out of state teams. For Vianney the OHSAA will get their division just like any other Ohio School. Assuming Elder beats them the OHSAA will assume that all the school Vianney beats are the same division. Sometimes this will help, others it will hurt.

Now Cathedral and Football North are out of state teams, but they also play other Ohio teams. So assuming they get a win vs one of the Ohio teams Do those wins count at D3 wins or D1 wins because the schools from Ohio are D1 schools. That is something I am unaware of.

The harbins are fun to look at now, but don't mean much until week 7 or 8 because of all the variables. Moeller was the 6 see last year with a 17.45 average. IF they played in any other region in D1, they are well past the 8th seed. In Region 3 they would have been the 11th seed.

1. Bottom line is you want to win as many games as possible first.
2.Then the teams you beat you want them to win too.
3.If you beat two teams that play each other you want the larger school to lose to make your level 2 points larger.
4. IF one team is out of your Region and one team is in your region, You want the one out of the region to win.
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  #11  
Old 08-14-18, 08:00 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post
The common opponent is what hurts the GMC. This also hurt Elder last year with so many common opponents.
I'm not sure how much this hurt Elder making the playoffs last year but it didn't hurt the GMC in the least. In fact since the GMC has gone to an 8 game league schedule they have had no trouble getting their top teams into the playoffs.

As an example, last year the GMC got 4 teams into the D1 playoffs which is 40% of the conference. This included a 6 - 4 Fairfield team that went 0 - 2 in their OOC games so had to rely entirely on their GMC schedule to make the playoffs. Is it possible that what could be biting Elder with respect to the playoffs is the number of non-D1 schools they play?
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  #12  
Old 08-14-18, 08:53 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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No, I wouldn't say playing lower Division teams hurt Elder. In fact Elder got more points off Winton Woods then they did Oak Hills.

Winton Woods provided 6.0 Level 1 and 50.5 Level 2
Oak Hills provided 6.5 level 1 and 0 level 2.

When you do the averages, You see Winton Woods a D2 schools gave Elder more points than Oak Hills.

Elder didn't make the playoffs last year because Elder/one of their beaten opponents didn't win one more game.

Here are the points that Elder received from each school they defeated

West 2.018421
Oak Hills .65
Lincoln 4.65
Moeller 3.386842
Winton Woods 5.915789
Florida .718421

After doing the math Elder got more points off the school from Florida than Oak Hills. Because the team from Florida brought some Level 2 points to the table.

Last edited by Vincent and Regina; 08-14-18 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Figured out the Math.
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  #13  
Old 08-14-18, 11:20 PM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post
Now Cathedral and Football North are out of state teams, but they also play other Ohio teams. So assuming they get a win vs one of the Ohio teams Do those wins count at D3 wins or D1 wins because the schools from Ohio are D1 schools. That is something I am unaware of.
The latter. If an out of state team plays another OHSAA school and wins, you get L2 points based on that Ohio school's division.

Assuming this scenario plays out: Cathedral is classified by the OHSAA as D2 as they were last year. If Elder beats a 2-0 Cathedral team in week 2, Elder will get 6.0 L1 points for beating a D2 team and 12.0 L2 points at that time for Cathedral's 2 wins on the season. If Cathedral were to beat St. Xavier in week 5, Elder would then get 6.5 L2 for the Irish' win over the D1 Bombers instead of 6.0.

Basically, if the OHSAA has figured out a division classification for a school, you get those points. If they're a team without an OHSAA division classification you get points based on how the OHSAA classified your opponent.
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  #14  
Old 08-15-18, 07:36 AM
ElderHSfan02 ElderHSfan02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Elder's playoffs started week 10 against LaSalle.

In absolutely miserable conditions, they lost.

Season over.
That was always my feeling as well. They needed to win that week 10 game, but came up a little short. Terrible conditions and I thought a couple bad calls not go their way. It's still disappointing they didn't get in with 6 wins thanks largely to Oak Hills and Broward.

I was hoping to see Elder add Cov Cath to the schedule this year. That would be a good game to add in the future.
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  #15  
Old 08-15-18, 08:19 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElderHSfan02 View Post
That was always my feeling as well. They needed to win that week 10 game, but came up a little short. Terrible conditions and I thought a couple bad calls not go their way. It's still disappointing they didn't get in with 6 wins thanks largely to Oak Hills and Broward.

I was hoping to see Elder add Cov Cath to the schedule this year. That would be a good game to add in the future.
It would be nice, not sure if they’ll do it. I like having the Indy Schools on the schedule, but it’s tough to sync up schedules since they start a week early.

Last edited by Dale Cooper; 08-15-18 at 08:49 AM.
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  #16  
Old 08-15-18, 08:50 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I'm not sure how much this hurt Elder making the playoffs last year but it didn't hurt the GMC in the least. In fact since the GMC has gone to an 8 game league schedule they have had no trouble getting their top teams into the playoffs.
Couple factors have aided the GMC since they have moved to the 8-game schedule:
-Divison 1 was split back into 4 Regions
-The GWOC teams were moved to R3
-LaSalle dropping to D2 as they would have been a R2/R4 playoff team in D1 the past few seasons.

Quote:
As an example, last year the GMC got 4 teams into the D1 playoffs which is 40% of the conference. This included a 6 - 4 Fairfield team that went 0 - 2 in their OOC games so had to rely entirely on their GMC schedule to make the playoffs. Is it possible that what could be biting Elder with respect to the playoffs is the number of non-D1 schools they play?
Seeds 5-8 in R4 would have missed the playoffs had they been in R3 - granted that only included one GMC team.
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  #17  
Old 08-15-18, 09:11 AM
ElderHSfan02 ElderHSfan02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
It would be nice, not sure if theyíll do it. I like having the Indy Schools on the schedule, but itís tough to sync up schedules since they start a week early.
Cov Cath has the exact same schedule as last year. They went undefeated win KY state title without a challenge. I'm guessing a couple of these contracts end after this season. Assuming they don't lose too much, I would think they would want more of a challenge. Elder should reach out now about scheduling a home and home with them. They are a perfect harbin cow to add.

2018
8/17 at Ryle
8/24 at Lexington Catholic
8/31 Cooper
9/7 Kings(OH)
9/14 Beechwood
9/21 Desales(OH)
10/5 Chatard(IN)
10/12 Highlands
10/19 Dixie Hts
10/26 Campbell County

2017
8/18 Ryle 49-17
8/25 at Lexington Catholic 48-2
9/1 Cooper 41-0
9/8 at Kings(OH) 35-14
9/15 at Beechwood 45-9
9/22 DeSales(OH) 35-7
10/6 Chatard(IN) 30-7
10/13 Highlands 52-0
10/20 at Dixie Hts 49-7
10/27 at Campbell County 49-13
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  #18  
Old 08-15-18, 09:34 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElderHSfan02 View Post
Cov Cath has the exact same schedule as last year. They went undefeated win KY state title without a challenge. I'm guessing a couple of these contracts end after this season. Assuming they don't lose too much, I would think they would want more of a challenge. Elder should reach out now about scheduling a home and home with them. They are a perfect harbin cow to add.

2018
8/17 at Ryle
8/24 at Lexington Catholic
8/31 Cooper
9/7 Kings(OH)
9/14 Beechwood
9/21 Desales(OH)
10/5 Chatard(IN)
10/12 Highlands
10/19 Dixie Hts
10/26 Campbell County

2017
8/18 Ryle 49-17
8/25 at Lexington Catholic 48-2
9/1 Cooper 41-0
9/8 at Kings(OH) 35-14
9/15 at Beechwood 45-9
9/22 DeSales(OH) 35-7
10/6 Chatard(IN) 30-7
10/13 Highlands 52-0
10/20 at Dixie Hts 49-7
10/27 at Campbell County 49-13
They lost a lot going into this yr. It’s the same mentality as Highlands, they’ll only step up when they’ve got a loaded team. I wouldn’t mind picking up Chatard or DeSales.
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Old 08-15-18, 01:22 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Couple factors have aided the GMC since they have moved to the 8-game schedule:
-Divison 1 was split back into 4 Regions
-The GWOC teams were moved to R3
-LaSalle dropping to D2 as they would have been a R2/R4 playoff team in D1 the past few seasons.


Seeds 5-8 in R4 would have missed the playoffs had they been in R3 - granted that only included one GMC team.
Agreed adselder. But take Fairfield for example. They went 0 - 2 against Northmont & Centerville, both very winnable games. Had they won either game they likely would have been in the playoffs even in R3. Net, their GMC schedule isn't hurting them and the move to an 8 game league schedule so far has been better then anything most of us would have imagined.

As an aside, when the GCLS plays those out of state schools how many are small? That is D4 or smaller? I could see that hurting at the end of the year when the 7th & 8th spots are often decided by a fraction of a Harbin point.
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  #20  
Old 08-15-18, 01:32 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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I was one who thought the GMC 8-game schedule was going to hurt them but it's worked out for them so far. Doesn't hurt that Elder and Moeller have been mediocre at best the past couple seasons and missed the playoffs either.

Most of the GCLS teams play D1-D2 teams for the entire schedule. Elder has played a handful from OH/IN that are considered D3, one or two considered D4/5 and one (ISB) that is D7.
ISB hurt for a few reasons:
-they were D7
-they didn't win many games
-they had several games cancel due to travel restrictions and hurricane season

That's really been the only time scheduling a lower division team has hurt them. For instance Chatard from IN or DeSales from OH both are D3 but they can garner more points than 1-2 win Oak Hills.
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Old 08-15-18, 02:16 PM
Fair&Balanced Fair&Balanced is offline
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The problem is not being able to schedule more locals because they either have a 8 game league or don't want to jeopardize playoff possibilities. Elder, Moeller, and X have to find 7 games every year, so they get who they can get, and hopefully it works out. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't, like last year. Again, despite the Florida mess, what happened really was about Oak Hills going 0-10. No one expected 0-10 with a decent QB, etc. but it happened. One win and Elder was in. Oak Hills is down again this year, and could be 0-10. Not sure of them having any success in the next few years. Elder got rid of them, and picked up Catheral which is a much better outcome. So, hopefully, we can keep a lot of these relationships moving forward, so last year won't repeat itself.
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  #22  
Old 08-15-18, 02:37 PM
JElder JElder is offline
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It seems like Elder vs Cooper would be easy considering they play in basketball.
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  #23  
Old 08-15-18, 02:51 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Their football program is miles behind the bball team. Honestly, I wouldn’t mind 9 games being the new normal.
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Old 08-15-18, 03:00 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
Their football program is miles behind the bball team. Honestly, I wouldnít mind 9 games being the new normal.
You're in the very small minority on that one.
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Old 08-15-18, 03:52 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
You're in the very small minority on that one.
Options are limited. Itís getting to the point, either schedule a Football Factory like Gorman, IMG or some low level nobody like Broward
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  #26  
Old 08-15-18, 05:17 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Agreed adselder. But take Fairfield for example. They went 0 - 2 against Northmont & Centerville, both very winnable games. Had they won either game they likely would have been in the playoffs even in R3. Net, their GMC schedule isn't hurting them and the move to an 8 game league schedule so far has been better then anything most of us would have imagined.

As an aside, when the GCLS plays those out of state schools how many are small? That is D4 or smaller? I could see that hurting at the end of the year when the 7th & 8th spots are often decided by a fraction of a Harbin point.
The waters can get muddy. Yes 40% of the GMC made it last year, 60% did not. Again muddy waters 50% of the GCL-S (GCL) made the D1 playoffs and LaSalle made D2 so 75% of the GCL made it. We really aren't comparing Apples to Apples when we compare the two leagues. As mentioned above the 18 team region, GWOC being out of Region 4 help the GMC get more teams in.

Out of the 18 teams in Region 4 you can look at it like this.

West Hi
Walnut Hills
Milford
Glen Este/Amelia (West Clermont)
Lebanon

Those schools are HISTORICALLY bad in football. Now West Clermont shocked me last year so they could get off of that list if they keep it up. Milford left the GMC because they were so bad. Again they shocked me and probalby will be off that list.

Then you have 10 teams in the GMC and 3 in the GCL. Even if they win the OOC games the GMC will never get more than 5 teams in the playoffs. So that leaves 8 spots for 10 teams barring any surprises like West Clermont/Milford.


I think the Florida and Obama schools were schedule fillers to get 10 game. Elder is lucky to have The Pit and some teams like to come for the atmosphere and pay check.

The last time I did the math, I think Elder has played teams from 13 states. Most of those have been against good competition.
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  #27  
Old 08-15-18, 07:58 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post

The last time I did the math, I think Elder has played teams from 13 states. Most of those have been against good competition.
I have no proof in front of me but 13 seems lower than I would have guessed.

Since 1989, off the top of my head I think I remember the following...
Ohio
KY
IN
CA
FL
IL
PA
MD
OK
MS
MO

Not sure about MI

Last edited by PURPLE REIGN; 08-16-18 at 06:41 AM.
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  #28  
Old 08-15-18, 08:20 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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You are correct, I was wrong I count 14 states

Here is my list. With one team from the state listed and first year played.

Ohio Moeller 1962
California De La Salle 2006
Florida Miami Central 2011
Illinois Carmel Catholic 2010
Indiana Bishop Chatard 2000
Kentucky Cov Cath 2003
Maryland McDonogh 2014
Mississippi Rosa Fort 2014
Missouri Francis Howell 2013
Nebraska Boys Town 1951
New Jersey DePaul Catholic 2015
North Carolina Independence 2007
Oklahoma Booker T Washington 1990
Pennsylvania University Prep 2016

I use to pour over http://media.elderhs.net/EHSportsArc...ives/index.htm

I think the Oklahoma team was part of the LaRosas Thing at Riverfront. The Nebraska team was in 1951 so I know very little about that. But to play teams from 14 different states is pretty cool.

We have not played a team from Michigan or West Virginia the only states that have a common boarder with Ohio. This will be the first year playing a team from Canada/Ontario so I guess the count will go up this year.
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  #29  
Old 08-16-18, 06:46 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Somehow I forgot the NC teams and NJ teams in my list.
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  #30  
Old 08-16-18, 07:32 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Iím surprised they havenít played any of the Detroit Catholic schools like Catholic Central, Brother Rice, UD Jesuit, and De LaSalle. I know LS has played Brother Rice in the past.
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